Raphaël Varane - Summer 2019

Suv666

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I didn't say any of that.
Calling De Gea who has been the best GK in the world for quite some time the source of our defensive fragility has to be one of the worst opinions I've read on this forum.
 

Mcking

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if we start CB who is not good on balls, even with GK's awful distribution, we'd be ripping apart because they'll get more time on the ball, they'd be pressing us so hard due to us not good playing out from back, and the fact it helps them to attack smoothly when many of their players already were in our third final with De Gea gifting them easily possession due to his awful distribution.

Enough good to play out from the back to help midfield in possession and buildup so opponents won't have a lot of times on balls, we can keep them so far away from our goalpost so we don't have to do more defensive work if we can play out from the back. A team like West Ham, Everton, Watford, Southampton will never press our backline if they knew we can play out from the back because that would mean they'd be leaving massive space for us to bypass and exploit space, that's why they didn't do the same thing against City and Liverpool. We don't have enough players in backline who can play from back comfortably.


If we can't play out from the back, we'll have to do more defensive work rate because we can't keep possession. If we do more defensive work, more likely we'll make mistake in defensive. Less defensive work rate, less mistake we make. Defence and GK put more pressure on midfield than midfield put pressure on the defence.
Decent theory I agree. Though I feel teams that have even less possession than us still manage to provide better protection for their defence. Our pressing is pretty much non existent and we usually struggle to win back the ball. Our opponents consistently find it easy to transistion from their own half and get the ball into our defensive third.
 

red woppit

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Seems to me that every time a Real Madrid player wants a pay rise, he is inexplicably linked with United. I wouldn't want us to fork out money on any Real player, invariably the vast majority would only be looking for big bucks, and would probably suffer with injury during the winter.
 

Mcking

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Calling De Gea who has been the best GK in the world for quite some time the source of our defensive fragility has to be one of the worst opinions I've read on this forum.
I didn't say that he is the source of our defensive fragility, just that he is a part of, and has always been the constant in such fragile defence. He saves a lot of shots, but doesn't help his defence in reducing the amount of shots he has to face. Thread's going off topic, so I will say no more.
 

UncleBob

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De gea has always been the constant in any leaky defence we've ever had in the past 6 years. Obviously he saves plently of shots, but we concede a lot of those shots partly because he refuses to command his box and help out his defenders. Other teams defend with defenders and a goalkeeper, we defend with only defenders and then wonder why we concede so many chances.
Back it up.

For some reason, people are trying to create a narrative where De Gea is the problem, as if the majority of goals we ship in is ultimately down to De Gea, either due to a goalkeepers mistake or because he hasn't commanded his box and/or told the defenders what to do.

Our primary concern should be a CB that is actually good at defending, comfortable with the ball, a leader and preferably not thick as feck.

By all means, it doesn't do us much good that our midfield doesn't do a good enough job protecting our defense, but the bottom line is still that our defenders are more or less shit.

Smallings positioning, his tackling, his general awareness. Look at Walcott's goal against us, or our defensive positioning for City's 2-0 goal, or their first goal for that matter. He's just not an intelligent footballer.
 

seegoblu

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Well this thread has lost its plot, no?
 

Sayros

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The underrating of Varane on this thread is....disturbing.

However, for 100m, it's a ton of money for any defender. The market is still very much ridiculous, however, it's hard to do better when you combine age, ability, experience, and leadership than Varane. However, I still think this is very much a ploy to get a bigger contract more than anything. I would focus on De Ligt because he would definitely be doing a step up career wise, whereas I can't see Varane taking a step down by coming here.
 

Ekeke

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Back it up.

For some reason, people are trying to create a narrative where De Gea is the problem, as if the majority of goals we ship in is ultimately down to De Gea, either due to a goalkeepers mistake or because he hasn't commanded his box and/or told the defenders what to do.

Our primary concern should be a CB that is actually good at defending, comfortable with the ball, a leader and preferably not thick as feck.

By all means, it doesn't do us much good that our midfield doesn't do a good enough job protecting our defense, but the bottom line is still that our defenders are more or less shit.

Smallings positioning, his tackling, his general awareness. Look at Walcott's goal against us, or our defensive positioning for City's 2-0 goal, or their first goal for that matter. He's just not an intelligent footballer.
We see it often with him refusing to come out even when balls are played into his 6 yard box. He stays on his line and tries to save the shot instead of what most very good keepers would do and try and deal with the cross so no shot comes in. I don't know any keeper considered in the top bracket who refuses to come and try to deal with the ball so close to his goal.

At his best he'll make up for it and then some with the best shot stopping in the world. But its true he doesn't help the defense at all when it comes to balls played into dangerous areas and most goalkeepers do.

Smalling makes up for De Gea in this situation a lot.
 

Reddevil1978

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I don't want Utd to contribute to Reals rebuild so I wouldn't be after Varane, he's probably pulling a Ramos and just after a new bumper contract anyway.

Go all out for de ligt as our big summer transfer and if he only wants Barca at least we might make them pay more then move on the 2nd choice.

Maybe before we can buy stars we need to build a good hard working team that can complete better with City and Pool and Wolves.....

I'm optimistic Ole can lift us up a few levels next season....... Only if the board back him because I think we need at least 250 million for transfers this summer and the money from any player sales.
 

UncleBob

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We see it often with him refusing to come out even when balls are played into his 6 yard box. He stays on his line and tries to save the shot instead of what most very good keepers would do and try and deal with the cross so no shot comes in. I don't know any keeper considered in the top bracket who refuses to come and try to deal with the ball so close to his goal.

At his best he'll make up for it and then some with the best shot stopping in the world. But its true he doesn't help the defense at all when it comes to balls played into dangerous areas and most goalkeepers do.

Smalling makes up for De Gea in this situation a lot.
:lol:

Good one.
 

UncleBob

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Fine stay in your fantasy where De Gea is taking crosses out of the air and Smalling isnt the CB with the most aerials out of the top 6 clubs
Stop with the straw mans arguments, my claim was definitely not that De Gea constantly comes out for crosses, more your absurd fascination with Smalling.

And it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Smalling has the most aerials out of the top 6 clubs, he keeps heading the ball away even when he's alone with plenty of time to control the ball and pass it onwards.

It's crucial that we get someone in to replace him, but I don't think Varane is that player
 

Ekeke

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Stop with the straw mans arguments, my claim was definitely not that De Gea constantly comes out for crosses, more your absurd fascination with Smalling.

And it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Smalling has the most aerials out of the top 6 clubs, he keeps heading the ball away even when he's alone with plenty of time to control the ball and pass it onwards.

It's crucial that we get someone in to replace him, but I don't think Varane is that player
So you dont think Smalling being good in the air and having the most aerials helps us make up for the fact that De Gea doesnt come out and claim crosses?

Its not a strawman, just a bad argument.
 

UncleBob

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So you dont think Smalling being good in the air and having the most aerials helps us make up for the fact that De Gea doesnt come out and claim crosses?

Its not a strawman, just a bad argument.
I didn't make the argument, you just claimed I did.

Smalling's stats are padded because he too often goes in to head the ball when he can simply control it and pass it.
 

Ekeke

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I didn't make the argument, you just claimed I did.

Smalling's stats are padded because he too often goes in to head the ball when he can simply control it and pass it.
Most players dont have the need to head, control and pass the ball when the ball is played into the area because their goalkeeper comes and catches it easily.
 

UncleBob

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Most players dont have the need to head, control and pass the ball when the ball is played into the area because their goalkeeper comes and catches it easily.
Stat padding isn't clearing a cross inside the box, it's when he does it without any opposition players being near him and he's outside the box and he chooses to head it.
 

Mcking

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Stop with the straw mans arguments, my claim was definitely not that De Gea constantly comes out for crosses, more your absurd fascination with Smalling.

And it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Smalling has the most aerials out of the top 6 clubs, he keeps heading the ball away even when he's alone with plenty of time to control the ball and pass it onwards.

It's crucial that we get someone in to replace him, but I don't think Varane is that player
You cannot be alone with plenty of time to control the ball and pass it onwards when going up for an aerial duel.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It's not worth it. You fix the DM and full backs our defense will be immediately upgraded. I would say, fix our midfield and attack before spending 100m for a CB.
I doubt that. Defensively may be but we will still struggle to play from the back without a ball playing cb
 

RedCurry

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What on earth has happened to this guy? Absolutely shocking.
Doesn’t seem like a leader. He’s talented but needs a fully functioning Ramos next to him. Real should go all out for VVD next summer and Varane would look great again in my opinion.
 

davidmichael

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Doesn’t seem like a leader. He’s talented but needs a fully functioning Ramos next to him. Real should go all out for VVD next summer and Varane would look great again in my opinion.
I think Real should take Klopp, Van Dijk, Salah and Mane from Liverpool and whilst we’re at it Barca take Pep back and he can take De Bruyne, Rodri and Bernardo Silva there too :lol::lol::lol:
 

Adam-Utd

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What on earth has happened to this guy? Absolutely shocking.
He was never that good in the first place. He always over relied on his pace and strength, that can only work in certain situations.

He’s not matured into an actual defender. Positioning is horrible.
 

Brwned

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Given Real Madrid have the best defensive record in Europe now, is it fair to say Varane is still a pretty good defender?
 

adexkola

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I think it's fair to say that Ramos took some time off during the summer to reflect on my musings about his defensive skills over the years and has become a better player for it