Raphinha - Now on deferred wages at Barca / UNLUCKY LuckyScout

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tomaldinho1

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Chelsea sign Rafinha and then we’ll get Ziyech from them to complete Ten Hag’s love for his ex players.
 

GoonerBear

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Was happy to sign him but he's not good enough that I'll cry myself to sleep missing out on him.

I remember thinking how jealous I was when they signed Ziyech and thats not turned out well.

Wonder what plan b will be now.
 

Orc

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Even as a Chelsea supporter I can agree that we’re certainly overpaying a bit. But this is the tax for buying from a PL rival and someone who is so important to the selling club.

If he was playing in France or something he’d probably cost £45m instead of 55-60.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Was happy to sign him but he's not good enough that I'll cry myself to sleep missing out on him.

I remember thinking how jealous I was when they signed Ziyech and thats not turned out well.

Wonder what plan b will be now.
I wonder if Arteta will go for Cody Gakpo now.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Expensive fee for their second choice (clearly wanted Dembele)

Good player though
Wouldn't rule Dembele out completely - word is we've made a firm contract offer today that trumps Barca's. If the rumours are true that we're losing at least 2 of Werner / Pulisic / Ziyech then it makes sense to reinforce accordingly.
 

WeePat

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Ziyech isn't good enough for the premier league.
Not true. He just didn’t suit the systemTuchel preferred. He was the biggest casualty of the back 3. There’s a quality player in him and he’ll show it at Milan or wherever he goes this summer.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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If they get Sterling and Raphinha, surely that means a move of formation away from wingbacks?
 

Orc

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If they get Sterling and Raphinha, surely that means a move of formation away from wingbacks?
Hard to say until we see which CB’s we bring in. Switching to a back 4 kinda screws over Thiago Silva who has been incredible for us these last 2 seasons and also means that Chilwell and James don’t have as much attacking freedom.

But if we stick with a back 3 it kinda screws over our back to back player of the season Mason Mount. Because we surely aren’t buying Sterling and Raphinha for a combined £100m to be rotation players. And with those 2 starting Mount no longer has a defined position.
 

Caesar2290

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Spurs and Chelsea sure looking like taking 3rd and 4th spot next season.
Wouldn't be so sure.

Spurs form was very patchy and I've not been impressed. They benefited from our and Arsenal's collapse towards the end of the season.

Chelsea's form in the second half of the season was similar to ours. We even had people claiming they could miss out on top4 if they don't address this.
 

charlenefan

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Hard to say until we see which CB’s we bring in. Switching to a back 4 kinda screws over Thiago Silva who has been incredible for us these last 2 seasons and also means that Chilwell and James don’t have as much attacking freedom.

But if we stick with a back 3 it kinda screws over our back to back player of the season Mason Mount. Because we surely aren’t buying Sterling and Raphinha for a combined £100m to be rotation players. And with those 2 starting Mount no longer has a defined position.
From what you've said there getting 2 CB's to be your intended pair for when Thiago leaves would be the smart thing to do. This Thiago's last season anyway? I don't think the change would effect James and Chilwell to much either, playing in a back 4 doesn't stop Liverpools FB's from having free reign to do what they want

With Havertz presumably taking on the false 9 role it looks like Chelsea will be going with the City/Liverpool blueprint ironically at the time both of those clubs go and get main focal point number 9's
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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So Sterling, Raphinha and Dembele?
Think that's the direction we're headed personally. Sterling / CHO on the left, Havertz / Broja down the centre, and Raphinha / Dembele on the right. Question is what happens with Mount but if we are moving away from the 3-4-3 as indicated by our pivot towards De Ligt instead of Kounde I'd expect him to play as an 8 (especially on the right side given both Raphinha and Dembele tend to play in wide areas).

That said, the complication there is that we have no midfielder who is adequate enough as a 6 to hold down the middle of the park. If we are getting Rice, then these pieces start to fall into place more. Plenty of outgoings have to go first though (some subset of Ziyech, Pulisic, Werner, Jorginho, Kante potentially).

Sterling - Havertz - Raphinha
Kovacic - Rice - Mount
Chilwell - Silva - De Ligt - James
Mendy

As decent as this team looks, for me it still feels unrealistic for a single window. Especially because we'd need reinforcements at fullback (though perhaps this is where rumours of Johnathan Clauss for ~10m or so come in).
 

ThierryHenry14

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Wouldn't be so sure.

Spurs form was very patchy and I've not been impressed. They benefited from our and Arsenal's collapse towards the end of the season.

Chelsea's form in the second half of the season was similar to ours. We even had people claiming they could miss out on top4 if they don't address this.
Spurs got 4th because they are a better team than Arsenal, not because Arsenal collapsed in the end. They earned the 4th place for their consistency in the end.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Think that's the direction we're headed personally. Sterling / CHO on the left, Havertz / Broja down the centre, and Raphinha / Dembele on the right. Question is what happens with Mount but if we are moving away from the 3-4-3 as indicated by our pivot towards De Ligt instead of Kounde I'd expect him to play as an 8 (especially on the right side given both Raphinha and Dembele tend to play in wide areas).

That said, the complication there is that we have no midfielder who is adequate enough as a 6 to hold down the middle of the park. If we are getting Rice, then these pieces start to fall into place more. Plenty of outgoings have to go first though (some subset of Ziyech, Pulisic, Werner, Jorginho, Kante potentially).

Sterling - Havertz - Raphinha
Kovacic - Rice - Mount
Chilwell - Silva - De Ligt - James
Mendy

As decent as this team looks, for me it still feels unrealistic for a single window. Especially because we'd need reinforcements at fullback (though perhaps this is where rumours of Johnathan Clauss for ~10m or so come in).
It's a great side but it's a big ask to take Rice and De Ligt this summer.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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It's a great side but it's a big ask to take Rice and De Ligt this summer.
Yeah completely agree. Only way it makes sense is with significant outgoings / player makeweights - though rumblings are that Jorginho is actually the player Juve want from Chelsea much more than Werner and they may adjust their demands for De Ligt accordingly. I have concerns over how the latter will adjust to the PL personally but would rate him as a better option if we move to a 4ATB compared to the other CBs we've been linked to.

Could see us doing another sort of semi-transition year with 3ATB before going for Rice next year and switching over - especially as that might line up with Silva retiring post-WC. That said, perhaps this is ludicrous given Chelsea's history of short-termism :lol:
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Yeah completely agree. Only way it makes sense is with significant outgoings / player makeweights - though rumblings are that Jorginho is actually the player Juve want from Chelsea much more than Werner and they may adjust their demands for De Ligt accordingly. I have concerns over how the latter will adjust to the PL personally but would rate him as a better option if we move to a 4ATB compared to the other CBs we've been linked to.

Could see us doing another sort of semi-transition year with 3ATB before going for Rice next year and switching over - especially as that might line up with Silva retiring post-WC. That said, perhaps this is ludicrous given Chelsea's history of short-termism :lol:
Yeah, think the most important thing is you're taking the right steps this window. The progress of the squad is clear to see and by the next window you'll be in a very good shape to add those final big pieces. No doubt by next season there'll be a new shiny DM and CB that every club is chasing. I'm not so sure about Mount as an #8 though, could he be forced to be on the bench?
 

Remember the geese

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Can’t see that happening personally
Think that's the direction we're headed personally. Sterling / CHO on the left, Havertz / Broja down the centre, and Raphinha / Dembele on the right. Question is what happens with Mount but if we are moving away from the 3-4-3 as indicated by our pivot towards De Ligt instead of Kounde I'd expect him to play as an 8 (especially on the right side given both Raphinha and Dembele tend to play in wide areas).

That said, the complication there is that we have no midfielder who is adequate enough as a 6 to hold down the middle of the park. If we are getting Rice, then these pieces start to fall into place more. Plenty of outgoings have to go first though (some subset of Ziyech, Pulisic, Werner, Jorginho, Kante potentially).

Sterling - Havertz - Raphinha
Kovacic - Rice - Mount
Chilwell - Silva - De Ligt - James
Mendy

As decent as this team looks, for me it still feels unrealistic for a single window. Especially because we'd need reinforcements at fullback (though perhaps this is where rumours of Johnathan Clauss for ~10m or so come in).
I think that signing all three of Sterling, Raphinha and Dembele seems a bit full on. However, the moves for Sterling and Raphinha look like they are in full swing and Dembele looks unlikely to stay. De Ligt would be a good signing, but I don't see Rice going anywhere this window.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Won't get Rice this window, but the rest is pretty likely, and a very good team.
Yeah agreed that it's unlikely. Still some depth issues at fullback that need to be sorted but frankly I'm happy it looks like we are planning our attack around Havertz - for me he's the ceiling raiser in our team that could take us to the next level should he make a leap.

Yeah, think the most important thing is you're taking the right steps this window. The progress of the squad is clear to see and by the next window you'll be in a very good shape to add those final big pieces. No doubt by next season there'll be a new shiny DM and CB that every club is chasing. I'm not so sure about Mount as an #8 though, could he be forced to be on the bench?
Could be, but Tuchel loves him and clearly values him highly - I think he could be an 8, as he was our best player under Lampard in that role in a (hugely dysfunctional) 4-3-3. Personally I think he's improved significantly in the past couple years and that he has the engine and quality to play a bit deeper whilst still providing a threat into the right half-space - and I think he's generally a pretty tidy (if unspectacular) combination player which could suit someone like Raphinha.

I'd expect his G/A output to go down a bit but honestly at times this year I think our attack bogged down when Mount found himself too far up the pitch and was unable to get involved as much as he should in our buildup - we tried using him as a runner past Lukaku quite a bit and I don't think it ever really clicked. Putting him deeper as an 8 could fix some of those issues.
 

Red the Bear

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Would suit Chelsea well i think.
I assume that it means they're looking at moving one of ziyech or Werner out.
 

Aeryis

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Not true. He just didn’t suit the systemTuchel preferred. He was the biggest casualty of the back 3. There’s a quality player in him and he’ll show it at Milan or wherever he goes this summer.
If what you want to want from a winger is dribbling, taking players on, stretching the width, pace, and scoring goals then Ziyech isn't the player for us. Look at how he played in ajax and look at how he plays in Chelsea. His play style hinges on him dropping deep and pinging in crosses. He struggles because he's actually not a winger, and Chelsea's system hinges on Ziyech functioning as an orthodox forward. He was shit under Lampard's 4ATB system too.

I'd rather we not become the dumping ground of mediocre Dutch talents. Pass.
 

criticalanalysis

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Stylistically he's basically 'replacing' Willian, someone whose qualities they have missed. Raphina can go on the outside with a bit of pace/skill, is comfortable coming in centrally and covers a lot of ground up and down the wing.

If they get Sterling, then they will suddenly have a lot of penetrative quality to stretch defenders on and off the ball, something I think they have lacked recently.
 

Beachryan

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Where's Werner going? I'd still take him at United.
 
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