Rashford and Martial are a problem

DWelbz19

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I do think both are very good players, and I think they get slightly more stick than they should do, especially Rashford, but this was supposed to be that season for the pair.

Both ended last season with about 20~ goals and 10~ assists in all competitions, which was a good achievement and proved that they could take the mantle without Lukaku around. But this next season was supposed to be the one where they elevate their game and go from being pretty good, to being genuinely top 3 in their positions in the league.

Instead... Martial has 1 goal in 10 PL matches. Rashford’s statistics are pretty decent this season (6 goals and 4 assists in 14 PL matches) but the standard of performance is inconsistent.

Whilst he is a PL seasoned pro now, Rashford is still ‘only’ 23 — that’s about 5 years younger than Salah/Mane (the only wide attackers you’d say with some assurance are better than Rashford in the league).
 
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Stacks

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He’s scored 13 and created 6 from the wide left position this season (including 6 in the champions league) but yet you think he’s not talented. Pundits, ex players and opposition managers wax lyrical about him but you know better right?
He will probably finish the season with 22 and 10 but its not good enough because he misses chances...........
 

Mindhunter

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Rashford and Martial shouldn't be our first choice number 9 (our most advanced attacker). They are good footballers and are able to run with the ball and create chances out of nothing but their finishing is not at par the standard of a team which has title ambitions.

I knew that our profligacy in front of goal will cost us eventually and it did today. We need a proper CF in that role who has the composure and the finishing skills to bury those chances if we want to have any hope to compete for major honors. We won't win the league with Martial and Rashford as our primary strikers.
 

Dr Foo

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Agreed that Martial and Rashford can't be relied upon currently for a team serious about challenging for top honours. We are still waiting for them to produce a Rooney - Ronaldo breakthrough season (in 06/07); Rashford could eventually become one, but still question marks remain over Martial's mentality. We could have done with a younger version of Cavani leading our line consistently this season.

Still clearly a level below the likes of Mane and Salah in producing the goods week in week out. Let's hope they are on track in terms of development, or we bring in top class signings next season
 

BusbyMalone

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I haven't got much of a problem with Rashford, I think he gets an unwarranted amount of stick, tbh. He's excellent for us, though he does miss some chances; there's no denying that. But even when he's not scoring he brings so much to the game.

Martial, on the other hand, does wind me up at times. When he's not scoring he really doesn't offer much, and I have to say it - his body language isn't great. I know that's a popular stick to beat him with, but sometimes, as a fan, you just want the basics from your players when things aren't going so well, and his lack of work rate at times is infuriating. Also, his off the ball movement really hasn't improved much since he's been here. I really wouldn't be that disappointed if he left, to be honest.
 

Conor

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But the amount of chances he has is due to him. It’s a talent to get into goal scoring positions regularly. His finishing could do with improving but provided he keeps getting chances and making them for others then he’s doing what he should be. If you take a third of your chances then you’re a bloody good forward. We shouldn’t have to rely on our strikers scoring three goals a game.
Not sure I would agree with that, Rashford isn't that great at getting in amazing positions, the chances he gets are chances that literally any forward in the league would get themselves. Things like the header today, any semi-decent forward should be there, and scoring it also. Time and time again we see good balls put into the box, only for Rashford and Martial to be nowhere near them. I think the difference is clear when you have someone like Cavani on the pitch.

None of this is to say that I think Rashford isn't quality, I really like him.
 

VeevaVee

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Why are you (and not just you - you are all majority unfortunatelly) always on Martial? Thats abolute stupidity. Rashford was terrible and many times in last months was. He doesnt progress at all, he's 4 or 5 times offside per match, thats 4-5 destroyed attacks and I dont talk about many clear chances missed. For example today it was 2 clear chances stupidly missed. Hes always just about to hit it as hard as possible. Plus 4 offsides. Thats 6 attacks thrown out of window just today. Hes not that talented as many of you think here. Hes offten desperate.
What do you mean I’m always on Martial? Who even are you? Have you read all my posts on him? Have you feck. Prat.
 

acnumber9

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Not sure I would agree with that, Rashford isn't that great at getting in amazing positions, the chances he gets are chances that literally any forward in the league would get themselves. Things like the header today, any semi-decent forward should be there, and scoring it also. Time and time again we see good balls put into the box, only for Rashford and Martial to be nowhere near them. I think the difference is clear when you have someone like Cavani on the pitch.

None of this is to say that I think Rashford isn't quality, I really like him.
He’s not the best around at it, that’s for sure. But due to his ability and pace he will almost always get a chance at scoring. And his output has been good this season. And he’s getting into those positions more than anybody else on our team at the minute.

It’s a weird time to bump this thread. Yes, Rashford missed two great chances and Martial was largely anonymous, but we scored two goals away from home against one of the best teams in the league. We shouldn’t have to score three goals to win every game.
 

lex talionis

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It’s fair to say that Rashford will improve on his conversion rate. Martial, a very talented footballer, probably won’t.
 

Conor

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He’s not the best around at it, that’s for sure. But due to his ability and pace he will almost always get a chance at scoring. And his output has been good this season. And he’s getting into those positions more than anybody else on our team at the minute.

It’s a weird time to bump this thread. Yes, Rashford missed two great chances and Martial was largely anonymous, but we scored two goals away from home against one of the best teams in the league. We shouldn’t have to score three goals to win every game.
Well, I didn't bump the thread myself, but I think the general point is that teams like Liverpool and City, in recent times, have had players that basically don't miss those chances in games like today's, or at least not to the extent our players do. Our forwards shouldn't have to score 3 goals every game, but they should score easy chances in big games that mean a lot to us, that is if we want to challenge for the title.
 

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He’s not the best around at it, that’s for sure. But due to his ability and pace he will almost always get a chance at scoring. And his output has been good this season. And he’s getting into those positions more than anybody else on our team at the minute.

It’s a weird time to bump this thread. Yes, Rashford missed two great chances and Martial was largely anonymous, but we scored two goals away from home against one of the best teams in the league. We shouldn’t have to score three goals to win every game.
bingo. Literally fans expect us to score 3-6 goals every game. 3-2 or 6-2 wins. how about a 2-0?
 

acnumber9

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Well, I didn't bump the thread myself, but I think the general point is that teams like Liverpool and City, in recent times, have had players that basically don't miss those chances in games like today's, or at least not to the extent our players do. Our forwards shouldn't have to score 3 goals every game, but they should score easy chances in big games that mean a lot to us, that is if we want to challenge for the title.
Salah and Sterling miss plenty. Sterling in particular. Rashford did score, he did his job. The defence didn’t. And it won’t be the attackers fault if we don’t anything this year.
 

Pogue Mahone

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bingo. Literally fans expect us to score 3-6 goals every game. 3-2 or 6-2 wins. how about a 2-0?
It’s possible to discuss defence and attack in isolation. We should have scored more than 2 goals today. We should have conceded fewer than 2 goals today. Both those statements can be true at the same time.

As it happens, I thought Rashford played pretty well. But only converting one of three absolutely gilt-edged chances is not what you want/expect from a striker at a team with ambitions of winning the league. Likewise Martial’s performances/productivity overall this season.
 

Stacks

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It’s possible to discuss defence and attack in isolation. We should have scored more than 2 goals today. We should have conceded fewer than 2 goals today. Both those statements can be true at the same time.

As it happens, I thought Rashford played pretty well. But only converting one of three absolutely gilt-edged chances is not what you want/expect from a striker at a team with ambitions of winning the league. Likewise Martial’s performances/productivity overall this season.
United took 2 great chances and missed 3. So thats 40% of our great chances. Is that a normal ratio? I dont know. maybe it is. no one scores every clear chance
 

hobbers

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Martial has stolen a living this season.

Even his "best" game of the season against Sheffield. His goal and his assist both came about because he mis-controlled it. Total flukes.
 

passing-wind

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Rashford is turning into a quality player, he's got good numbers last two seasons and even in bad performances can be influential. Martial seems to be inconsistent in front of the goal which is a surprise, I think we need a 9 to give him proper competition. Can see why Haaland was a big target few months ago.
 

Pogue Mahone

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United took 2 great chances and missed 3. So thats 40% of our great chances. Is that a normal ratio? I dont know. maybe it is. no one scores every clear chance
I don’t think stats here are helpful. No two chances are the same. And no striker is flawless. I do think that all the top strikers in the league would be disappointed to come away with one goal after three chances of the quality he got today. And it’s not as though this was a one off.

I’m not shitting on the guy anyway. His overall return this season is decent. For his age he’s doing an incredible job. I just think we’re too reliant on someone who is still a work in progress. All the more so with him playing in pain due to us not being able to rest a 23 year old long enough to heal properly, the season following him literally breaking his back in his efforts to carry our attack.

Towards the end of last season Martial looked like he was stepping up to become the sort of mature, consistent elite striker we need. Him going backwards since then makes Rashford’s youthful flakiness more problematic than it would be otherwise.
 

Red_toad

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Why are you (and not just you - you are all majority unfortunatelly) always on Martial? Thats abolute stupidity. Rashford was terrible and many times in last months was. He doesnt progress at all, he's 4 or 5 times offside per match, thats 4-5 destroyed attacks and I dont talk about many clear chances missed. For example today it was 2 clear chances stupidly missed. Hes always just about to hit it as hard as possible. Plus 4 offsides. Thats 6 attacks thrown out of window just today. Hes not that talented as many of you think here. Hes offten desperate.
Was Marcus the only player caught offside? Team only managed 4 offsides all game and 1 of them was martials offside goal. So you’re saying Rashford got the other 3 plus another 1 that didn’t exist in this world? I think you need to give your head a wobble.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Given that Ole keeps on playing James, I'd wager that this duo isn't exactly worried for their places. Standards are extremely low.
Keeps on playing? Prior to last week, he hadn't featured since 24th November against Istanbul. Even then, it was a substitute appearance. His last start came against Chelsea 24th October. I can imagine the only reason he started today was down to him having a good game against Leeds last week.

I do, however, believe that we need someone pushing these two, as every squad needs in every position. Having said that, one would argue that Greenwood and Cavani are enough, despite the latter getting on a bit.
 

Jibbs

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Rashford and Martial shouldn't be our first choice number 9 (our most advanced attacker). They are good footballers and are able to run with the ball and create chances out of nothing but their finishing is not at par the standard of a team which has title ambitions.

I knew that our profligacy in front of goal will cost us eventually and it did today. We need a proper CF in that role who has the composure and the finishing skills to bury those chances if we want to have any hope to compete for major honors. We won't win the league with Martial and Rashford as our primary strikers.
Totally agree.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I'm not sure what Salah, Mane, and Son were like at Rashford's age regards their finish but I believe when Rashford is 27/28, we'll see a more clinical finisher. I'd put him just a level below the aforementioned three but I wouldn't swap him for anyone.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I'm not sure what Salah, Mane, and Son were like at Rashford's age regards their finish but I believe when Rashford is 27/28, we'll see a more clinical finisher. I'd put him just a level below the aforementioned three but I wouldn't swap him for anyone.
Or even 25/26. Which is still a long way off. The season after next. Shows how great he is for his age. Roony was in his late 20s when he suddenly learned how to score headers, then had his most prolific season ever. That’s all ahead of Rashford.
 

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The level Rashford is already on is great, and the good thing is he's improving in all departments. His potential is so promising. Fully expect Rashford at Martial's age to be much better than the latter judging by their current trajectory.
 

Red & White

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Rashford seems to have a new found swagger about him these last few months, which I for one am enjoying. His two misses today were very frustrating and there has always been question marks over his conversion rate, which will hopefully improve over the course of the season. I’m happy to see him getting in positions to score, though, which is half the battle. I think if we continue this style and keep showing confidence going forward he won’t be far off 20 league goals by the end of what is sure to be an unusual season for all teams.

I’ve always been a big Martial fan and he showed some nice ability on the ball today but, quite simply, he needs to improve his numbers and hopefully sooner rather than later. He does seem like a confidence player and I remember his finishing being one of his main strengths not long ago. He needs to go on a good streak and then he’ll hit top form for the run in, hopefully.
 
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noodlehair

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This forum is bonkers. We're scoring more goals than any other team except Liverpool. Rashford is on course to get close to 30 goals as a wide player who doesn't take penalties. Fernandes is on course to get similar despite being something between a midfielder and no10. We've got so much going forwards that the fact Martial hasn't started the season yet, Greenwood has struggled, and Cavani has barely been fit, have not even been a significant problem.

We also scored two goals away today to the second placed team, and could have easily had double that. To say it "cost us" is absolutely ridiculous. Our forward players created and scored enough chances to win the game, despite having less service than the opposition forwards did, against the second placed side. What costs us is that we as per usual conceded two goals that were down to basic defensive jobs not being done.

It gets to a point when you're scoring more goals than nearly every other team in the league, that you have to accept that maybe scoring goals and moaning about the people who score them isn't addressing the issue. I wouldn't swap our forwards for any other set in the league apart from maybe Liverpool and even then the age and experience of our players gives a lot more scope for improvement. We're really not that far off but need to find a way or players to help us with controlling and managing games, not scoring in them which we manage to do just fine even when we only turn up for 10 minutes.

The problem comes when we can't absorb a bit of pressure without conceding cheap goals, and can't find a way to prevent being under pressure for a spell of the game either.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Or even 25/26. Which is still a long way off. The season after next. Shows how great he is for his age. Roony was in his late 20s when he suddenly learned how to score headers, then had his most prolific season ever. That’s all ahead of Rashford.
Exactly, and I still feel he can pick up 15+ goals from the wide forward position which are very good numbers.

As I said before, I feel if anyone is a 'problem' then it is Martial, who I feel is fantastic on his day by the way but like Rashford, does need to be more clinical, too.
 

Pexbo

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Or even 25/26. Which is still a long way off. The season after next. Shows how great he is for his age. Roony was in his late 20s when he suddenly learned how to score headers, then had his most prolific season ever. That’s all ahead of Rashford.
Then he had a hair transplant and suddenly unlearned how to do headers which is always nice when you’re paying £250k a week for wages that paid for said hair transplant.
 

Roane

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Rashford seems to have a new found swagger about him these last few months, which I for one am enjoying. His two misses today were very frustrating and there has always been question marks over his conversion rate, which will hopefully improve over the course of the season. I’m happy to see him getting in positions to score, though, which is half the battle. I think if we continue this style and keep showing confidence going forward he won’t be far off 20 league goals by the end of what is sure to be an unusual season for all teams.

I’ve always been a big Martial fan and he showed some nice ability on the ball today but, quite simply, he needs to improve his numbers and hopefully sooner rather than later. He does seem like a confidence player and I remember his finishing being one of his main strengths not long ago. He needs to go on a good streak and then he’ll hit top form for the run in, hopefully.
Yeah I've seen a difference in Rashford in the last few games too.

I wonder if his injury is more healed than at the start?

He seems to be happier going for the ball and challenging more than he was at the start of the season.
 

morbidsaint

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You can never truly 100% rely on a player that on a regular basis misses a chance like Rashford did today. A one off type of deal.. sure, even the best strikers would do that, but that would happen every blue moon. They both go from the most brilliant to completely being in the way. Martial WAY more often. Actually think Rashford regularly performs well, but those misses like today are really starting to annoy me.
 

Stacks

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I don’t think stats here are helpful. No two chances are the same. And no striker is flawless. I do think that all the top strikers in the league would be disappointed to come away with one goal after three chances of the quality he got today. And it’s not as though this was a one off.

I’m not shitting on the guy anyway. His overall return this season is decent. For his age he’s doing an incredible job. I just think we’re too reliant on someone who is still a work in progress. All the more so with him playing in pain due to us not being able to rest a 23 year old long enough to heal properly, the season following him literally breaking his back in his efforts to carry our attack.

Towards the end of last season Martial looked like he was stepping up to become the sort of mature, consistent elite striker we need. Him going backwards since then makes Rashford’s youthful flakiness more problematic than it would be otherwise.
can't disagree with any of that
 
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Martial has been poor in front of goal but he is not a repeat offender over the course of his career for modding sitters.

Rashford honestly surprises me when he scores one on ones. He has criminally low composure in front of goal for a forward.
 

TheNewEra

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You can never truly 100% rely on a player that on a regular basis misses a chance like Rashford did today. A one off type of deal.. sure, even the best strikers would do that, but that would happen every blue moon. They both go from the most brilliant to completely being in the way. Martial WAY more often. Actually think Rashford regularly performs well, but those misses like today are really starting to annoy me.
Difference is you don't care if a player like Rashford misses a chance when the team is 5-0 up, it's when the team is at 1-1 you want a player like Rashford to finish.

It's honestly not good enough when it's the difference between 3 points and 1.

He definitely needs to do better.
 

Conor

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It’s possible to discuss defence and attack in isolation. We should have scored more than 2 goals today. We should have conceded fewer than 2 goals today. Both those statements can be true at the same time.

As it happens, I thought Rashford played pretty well. But only converting one of three absolutely gilt-edged chances is not what you want/expect from a striker at a team with ambitions of winning the league. Likewise Martial’s performances/productivity overall this season.
Agreed.
 

Zlatan 7

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This forum is bonkers. We're scoring more goals than any other team except Liverpool. Rashford is on course to get close to 30 goals as a wide player who doesn't take penalties. Fernandes is on course to get similar despite being something between a midfielder and no10. We've got so much going forwards that the fact Martial hasn't started the season yet, Greenwood has struggled, and Cavani has barely been fit, have not even been a significant problem.

We also scored two goals away today to the second placed team, and could have easily had double that. To say it "cost us" is absolutely ridiculous. Our forward players created and scored enough chances to win the game, despite having less service than the opposition forwards did, against the second placed side. What costs us is that we as per usual conceded two goals that were down to basic defensive jobs not being done.

It gets to a point when you're scoring more goals than nearly every other team in the league, that you have to accept that maybe scoring goals and moaning about the people who score them isn't addressing the issue. I wouldn't swap our forwards for any other set in the league apart from maybe Liverpool and even then the age and experience of our players gives a lot more scope for improvement. We're really not that far off but need to find a way or players to help us with controlling and managing games, not scoring in them which we manage to do just fine even when we only turn up for 10 minutes.

The problem comes when we can't absorb a bit of pressure without conceding cheap goals, and can't find a way to prevent being under pressure for a spell of the game either.
I agree with all your post, being gutted or expecting rashford to score atleast one of those 2 amazing chances is just that though, he really should have scored one of those and he probably thinks he should have too, it’ll come though.

Any striker can be close to hitting any number and still be disappointed at missing sitters, and not taking chances at one end will cost us, the defence is a different issue.

edit to add this isnt a downbeat post, it’s great we’re making these chances, but our finishing need to become more composed from a lot of players
 

LDUred

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I don't think there has ever been a successful United side that has not had at least one clinical striker. Perhaps the 92/93 team, but that was a team that had goals coming from all over the pitch. Players from midfield and even defence would regularly chip in with goals, making light of the fact that that early Prem United side didn't have a true out and out striker.

We do sometimes suffer for not having a striker who can be relied upon not to miss the tap ins and one on ones. That is compounded by the fact that not only Rashford but Martial can also be wasteful. It's also exacerbated by the lack of goals coming from other areas of the team. Our defenders are generally hopeless at corners and there are some midfielders who never look like scoring.

There is no way that RVN or Ronaldo or even Andy Cole or Dwight Yorke would have left that game without at least two goals to their name. Remember that nonchalant way in which they used to score hat tricks? That is what we are missing here. A player who can be relied upon to fill their boots in the nondescript, bread-and-butter games. Yes, Leicester are much better than that, but they were there for the taking today, and we blew it.

When Marcus passed up that opportunity, you just had flashbacks of Ruud gobbling up that chance. There is no way he would have let that chance go begging. Ruud needed to score, so did Ronaldo, and so did Cole.

Marcus is still a young lad and his all round game is improving all the time, but he has to become more clinical. Without having goals coming regularly from midfield and defence, we need to have a striker who can be depended upon to capitalize on one-on-ones and gimmes. That is what Salah does for Liverpool, he rarely misses those chances.
 
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