Rashford and Martial are a problem

Red & White

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
223
Yeah I've seen a difference in Rashford in the last few games too.

I wonder if his injury is more healed than at the start?

He seems to be happier going for the ball and challenging more than he was at the start of the season.
The injury healing may have something to do with it. I personally think his fantastic off field work and rightful new found following is giving him an even greater realisation of how lucky he is living his dream and helping those less fortunate. He wants the ball and looks more comfortable in possession, almost daring the opposition to let him run at them. This will only help him reach that next level that we‘re all desperate for him to get to.
 

JohnnyKills

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
6,067
I'm probably Martial's biggest fan on the Caf and am desperate for him to crack it at United. During our games I probably watch him more closely than any other player, hoping he'll turn the corner.

But starting to think it's best for everyone if he moves on.

It's not so much his lack of goals. He still creates chances and wins penalties. If he worked hard and gave his all in defence, his contribution would be fine.

But when we're defending, he's non-existent. He just stands there and watches the opposition pass the ball round him, or makes a half-hearted attempt to close someone down. Then when we get a counter, he doesn't even bust a gut to keep up with play.

He's had five managers now - Jardim, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Deschamps - and none of them have been able to get the best out of him. Even Fergie might have struggled to unlock his talent.

Maybe it's best for everyone if we cut our losses and move onto someone more reliable.
 

Red Company

Full Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Messages
654
I'm probably Martial's biggest fan on the Caf and am desperate for him to crack it at United. During our games I probably watch him more closely than any other player, hoping he'll turn the corner.

But starting to think it's best for everyone if he moves on.

It's not so much his lack of goals. He still creates chances and wins penalties. If he worked hard and gave his all in defence, his contribution would be fine.

But when we're defending, he's non-existent. He just stands there and watches the opposition pass the ball round him, or makes a half-hearted attempt to close someone down. Then when we get a counter, he doesn't even bust a gut to keep up with play.

He's had five managers now - Jardim, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Deschamps - and none of them have been able to get the best out of him. Even Fergie might have struggled to unlock his talent.

Maybe it's best for everyone if we cut our losses and move onto someone more reliable.
I’m a great fan of Martial just like you and I do agree with everything you said but I’ve decided to hold my final judgement until the end of this season. I hope Cavani can teach him things that he lacks and Ole can continue to press him on improving his work while defending. We’ll know fairly well by end of season if he can be allowed to continue being our striker or not.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,170
I don't think there has ever been a successful United side that has not had at least one clinical striker. Perhaps the 92/93 team, but that was a team that had goals coming from all over the pitch. Players from midfield and even defence would regularly chip in with goals, making light of the fact that that early Prem United side didn't have a true out and out striker.

We do sometimes suffer for not having a striker who can be relied upon not to miss the tap ins and one on ones. That is compounded by the fact that not only Rashford but Martial can also be wasteful. It's also exacerbated by the lack of goals coming from other areas of the team. Our defenders are generally hopeless at corners and there are some midfielders who never look like scoring.

There is no way that RVN or Ronaldo or even Andy Cole or Dwight Yorke would have left that game without at least two goals to their name. Remember that nonchalant way in which they used to score hat tricks? That is what we are missing here. A player who can be relied upon to fill their boots in the nondescript, bread-and-butter games. Yes, Leicester are much better than that, but they were there for the taking today, and we blew it.

When Marcus passed up that opportunity, you just had flashbacks of Ruud gobbling up that chance. There is no way he would have let that chance go begging. Ruud needed to score, so did Ronaldo, and so did Cole.

Marcus is still a young lad and his all round game is improving all the time, but he has to become more clinical. Without having goals coming regularly from midfield and defence, we need to have a striker who can be depended upon to capitalize on one-on-ones and gimmes. That is what Salah does for Liverpool, he rarely misses those chances.
This. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
 

Alvaro Maestre

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
842
Location
Between Klopp`s Front Teeths .
I’m a great fan of Martial just like you and I do agree with everything you said but I’ve decided to hold my final judgement until the end of this season. I hope Cavani can teach him things that he lacks and Ole can continue to press him on improving his work while defending. We’ll know fairly well by end of season if he can be allowed to continue being our striker or not.
I've heard this "until the end of the season" so many times with Martial that I don't even know how much time to give him.
 

JohnnyKills

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
6,067
I’m a great fan of Martial just like you and I do agree with everything you said but I’ve decided to hold my final judgement until the end of this season. I hope Cavani can teach him things that he lacks and Ole can continue to press him on improving his work while defending. We’ll know fairly well by end of season if he can be allowed to continue being our striker or not.
Yeah, let's hope so. Get the feeling Ole is too soft on him though. If he had Fergie as his manager it might (might) make all the difference (although if you need one of the best managers in history to make you work hard, it's a problem).
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
13,465
Location
Rectum
Yeah, let's hope so. Get the feeling Ole is too soft on him though. If he had Fergie as his manager it might (might) make all the difference (although if you need one of the best managers in history to make you work hard, it's a problem).
Mourinho was to hard on him, this and that. There is always someone else to blame for Martial then himself.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,826
I’m in the “let’s give Martial until the end of the year” camp too, as it would be daft to look for buyers for him right now. But if PSG came with a bid of 70m right now I’d make sure the fax machine is working perfectly.

We know about the talent and we know about last season, but Tony looks like a player who’s done with his club and is just going through the motions. I have no idea what happened to him but there’s no joy in his game any longer and no intensity on it off the ball.

But let’s see if he can pull himself together over the next six months...or if he wants to.
 

JohnnyKills

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
6,067
Mourinho was to hard on him, this and that. There is always someone else to blame for Martial then himself.
Some players are just hard to manage. What would have happened to Cantona if he hadn't met Fergie? Before arriving at United Cantona had been a sub in a distinctly average title-winning team and been kicked out of every other club he'd been at.

That said, players can't expect to have brilliant managers. Most of the top players play well for every manager, regardless of whether they have a good relationship or not.

To be honest, most of the top managers today wouldn't bother trying to crack Martial's behavioral code. They'd just get rid.

It's a shame, because he'd be a Robben-level player if he really screwed his head on. Let's hope he sees the light.
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,791
Location
Between a rock and Gibraltar
Difference is you don't care if a player like Rashford misses a chance when the team is 5-0 up, it's when the team is at 1-1 you want a player like Rashford to finish.

It's honestly not good enough when it's the difference between 3 points and 1.

He definitely needs to do better.
It wasn't. we got the 2nd goal so cancelled that miss out.
 

Brophs

The one and only
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
44,244
I think it might have been @Mockney who said about Martial something along the lines of "For a guy who hasn't meaningfully improved in 5 years he has an awful lot of excuses made for him". I think he has improved on certain things, but equally, he seems to have regressed in others. Eventually you just have to accept that these periods of poor form and what seems to be an iffy attitude are just part of the package, for better or worse. People tie themselves in knots trying to defend him, but the truth is he's a very talented player who, in the main, doesn't make the most of his talent. That's not a crime, but nor is it a good basis upon which to build a side around as your main striker.
 

JohnnyKills

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Messages
6,067
I think it might have been @Mockney who said about Martial something along the lines of "For a guy who hasn't meaningfully improved in 5 years he has an awful lot of excuses made for him". I think he has improved on certain things, but equally, he seems to have regressed in others. Eventually you just have to accept that these periods of poor form and what seems to be an iffy attitude are just part of the package, for better or worse. People tie themselves in knots trying to defend him, but the truth is he's a very talented player who, in the main, doesn't make the most of his talent. That's not a crime, but nor is it a good basis upon which to build a side around as your main striker.
It's not a crime but it's massively frustrating. If he applied himself he'd be a Robben/Giggs level player. Would be a massive shame to see him waste it.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
1,518
I've heard this "until the end of the season" so many times with Martial that I don't even know how much time to give him.
What do you mean? Was he no named "player of the season" just a few months back? But he needs competition, so whoever is out on form can be rested. Martial is a great player to have in the squad.
 

sokol11

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
458
Location
sLOVEnia
I'm probably Martial's biggest fan on the Caf and am desperate for him to crack it at United. During our games I probably watch him more closely than any other player, hoping he'll turn the corner.

But starting to think it's best for everyone if he moves on.

It's not so much his lack of goals. He still creates chances and wins penalties. If he worked hard and gave his all in defence, his contribution would be fine.

But when we're defending, he's non-existent. He just stands there and watches the opposition pass the ball round him, or makes a half-hearted attempt to close someone down. Then when we get a counter, he doesn't even bust a gut to keep up with play.

He's had five managers now - Jardim, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and Deschamps - and none of them have been able to get the best out of him. Even Fergie might have struggled to unlock his talent.

Maybe it's best for everyone if we cut our losses and move onto someone more reliable.
Bingo
 

Wilt

Full Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
2,108
Martial, IMO one of the most overrated Utd players ever. If as some seem to think he’s worth £50 - 60 mil, we should sell.

Rashford is definitely the better player of the two, but still too Inconsistent. If our title hopes are hinging on these two then it ain't gonna happen.
 

2 man midfield

Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
34,668
Location
?
I think time is running out for Martial. Ole seems very aware of his obvious deficiencies, and when we upgrade he’ll be the first to sit on the bench, which he won’t like one bit. Cue sulking and a transfer to somewhere like Fiorentina.
 

Godfather

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
22,174
Location
Austria
The relevance of this thread was - yet again - clear to see yesterday. Martial and Rashford both had half decent first halves, Rashford more so than Martial, but went completely hiding in the second half.

It happens too often the way we rely on them. I'd really like us to go for another striker.
 

Lee565

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
1,999
The martial experiment from Ole has failed, it needs to go back to what mourinho did of having him and rashford battling it out for the left wing position though if he does that I'm sure martial will sulk once again like he always does when things don't go his way.
 

alexthelion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
1,055
The relevance of this thread was - yet again - clear to see yesterday. Martial and Rashford both had half decent first halves, Rashford more so than Martial, but went completely hiding in the second half.

It happens too often the way we rely on them. I'd really like us to go for another striker.
I think this season has really shown that we need a "proper" striker, a "fox in the box" if you like.
 

Jackal

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
210
I think this season has really shown that we need a "proper" striker, a "fox in the box" if you like.
You can tell the difference when Cavani plays. His movement, his guile and the runs to always attack the space around the near post,.
My biggest gripe with Rashford/Martial is their uncanny attitude to want to dribble their way out of a crowded area even when a simple give and go would suffice. i don't know if it's because they are not natural strikers or because their years on the flanks have ruined their attacking instincts.
 

Brad2020

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
78
Rashford and Martial are good going forward in a front three, but the problem is....

If your playing a diamond with 2 forwards, neither of them are natural number 9's that can give you the firepower you need (Kane, Vardy ect)

The pairing for two forwards should be (Cavani, Rashford) or (Cavani, Martial)
 

Godfather

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
22,174
Location
Austria
I'd let these two lazy fecks run round after round after every match if they continue with their half hearted bs very game now
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,695
I'd let these two lazy fecks run round after round after every match if they continue with their half hearted bs very game now
Rashford is and has been fine. When he gets the ball, he has been rightfully aggressive.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
15,264
Rashford is and has been fine. When he gets the ball, he has been rightfully aggressive.
He's miscontrolled everything that's come near him, he's been anything but fine.
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
8,694
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
Rashford has been fine, his quick feet to get out of tight spaces has opened space up well.

Martial on the other hand is a passenger, he's so out of form is a hard watch. If we bring in Grealish or Sancho in summer, his days as a starter are over.
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
1,695
He's miscontrolled everything that's come near him, he's been anything but fine.
I don't know if it's a different game, rashford hasn't miscontrolled anything that wasn't too tight for him to get. Martial has. Bruno has ( which is ok cause he's still our most aggressive player).
 

Dante

Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
20,501
Location
My wit's end
Martial is off-form. Not much the manager can do about that besides hoping for the best.

But putting Rashford on the right is a problem of Ole's own making.

It's better to have one functioning wide forward rather than zero wide forwards. Put Rashford back on the left.
 

NoneBmStore

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
213
Martial is off-form. Not much the manager can do about that besides hoping for the best.

But putting Rashford on the right is a problem of Ole's own making.

It's better to have one functioning wide forward rather than zero wide forwards.
Marital isn’t out of form. That is his form
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
8,614
Location
Manchester
They need a kick up the ass. No competition for their places. Martial knows if Cavani starts he’ll go on the wing. They need legit competition that could bench them. Look at how DDG & Shaw have improved.
 

432JuanMata

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,477
Location
Dublin
Martial is having a horror season and at the age he is at it’s not good enough. Rashford has been scoring and assisting decent enough this season but there overall play has been so poor. Both are good players but we are trying to win the league here I feel both aren’t at the level to start every game.

Though I feel Rashford could get to top level and his best form is up there but he can have such a drop off when not at the races. The wake up call should be when Bruno came in you can see how good he is and Cavani who is 33 the caf want him to start ahead of Martial says all you need to know about top players level and Rashford/Martial level week in week out.


I’m not hating especially on Rashford as I feel he is still getting better and better but we need more consistent performances on a weekly basis
 

JJ12

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
5,809
Location
Wales
Martial is useless and even sometimes a liability for 85 minutes of the game.
 

432JuanMata

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,477
Location
Dublin
Martial is useless and even sometimes a liability for 85 minutes of the game.
Actually that is Rashford a lot of the time but the other 5 mins he does something that wins you the game. Martial is just woeful this season
 

mattunited1978

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
550
Take any kind of win with thesw 2 playing as shit as they are at the moment, both rubbish again tonight.
 

JJ12

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
5,809
Location
Wales
Actually that is Rashford a lot of the time but the other 5 mins he does something that wins you the game. Martial is just woeful this season
No it isn’t.

Rashford impacts the game far more - I’d agree he isn’t playing well currently though. Still created the goal today.
 

432JuanMata

Full Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,477
Location
Dublin
No it isn’t.

Rashford impacts the game far more - I’d agree he isn’t playing well currently though. Still created the goal today.
Is that proving my point ? Rashford was woeful today but got the assist to win the game ?. It’s like the Sheffield United game he was woeful missed a few sitters but get the goal. Rashford has been decent to good this season but his stats would make it look like he was playing excellent and he’s not. Though I’m not that worried about him I’m slightly giving up on Martial :(