Rashford's lack of willingness to dribble is causing us problems and Shaw's absence is exposing it

MichaelRed

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Hi all, my first thread posted so hopefully it's not a flop but I've been thinking about this for a while now & would love to see some other opinions.

Rashford, to me, shows a total lack of willingness to dribble with the ball. People often think players with bags of pace should be able to beat a man but I think reality is more complex than that. I see it as pace on the ball vs pace off the ball & it's something I don't find people paying enough attention to. Rashford is lightning quick when the ball is played into space for him to run onto or when he has open space to knock the ball into himself and chase after but he moves at a snails pace when he has to keep the ball close to his feet. This is very different to Martial who, whilst probably not being as fast as Rashford at top speed, doesn't lose any of his pace when he has to keep close control of the ball and it allows him to just glide past defenders and wreak havoc.

Rashford is often seen as a big game player but I think the reality is that big games are games against teams like Man City or Liverpool who will attack you and leave gaps, which Rashford will exploit, but he would do just as well vs a small team that attacks and equally he performs poorly vs big teams that play a low block. An example I want to give for my opinion on this is two of our recent games against Spurs. We played Spurs early into Ole's reign when they were still managed by Poch and they used a high line with attacking fullbacks & Rashford was excellent against them with all of the space to work with & even bagged the winning goal. Flash forward to our recent game against the same team, now managed by Mourinho, playing a low block with deep fullbacks & suddenly Rashford was dreadful, never providing a threat or attempting to beat his man & just disappeared from the game.

Next season could further highlight this issue if we bring in Sancho, a player that wouldn't beat Rashford in a race in a month of Sundays, but I can guarantee you he'll beat his fullback 10 times over for every time Rashford does it. Now, I mentioned at the start of this post that I've thought this for a while but I've decided to post about it now because I feel like this issue is being exposed by Shaw's absence. When Rashford faces up with his fullback he gets offered an overlap by Shaw nearly every time & plays the pass to Shaw to mitigate the need to take on the defender himself or the defender tracks Shaw and allows Rashford the space he needs to move into. Brandon Williams doesn't tend to offer the overlap, likely on account of his dominant right foot making it more difficult for him to put the ball into danger areas once he has overlapped, and this is now causing us to see time & again Rashford cutting back or dropping deep & trying to act as a playmaker instead of a winger.

For me it's imperative that Rashford works on his close control next season but what do you guys think? Is it a problem and if so how would you resolve it with our current squad? Or am I just talking nonsense?

Thank you for your time if you do read this long post :)
 

Canadianred17

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Hi all, my first thread posted so hopefully it's not a flop but I've been thinking about this for a while now & would love to see some other opinions.

Rashford, to me, shows a total lack of willingness to dribble with the ball. People often think players with bags of pace should be able to beat a man but I think reality is more complex than that. I see it as pace on the ball vs pace off the ball & it's something I don't find people paying enough attention to. Rashford is lightning quick when the ball is played into space for him to run onto or when he has open space to knock the ball into himself and chase after but he moves at a snails pace when he has to keep the ball close to his feet. This is very different to Martial who, whilst probably not being as fast as Rashford at top speed, doesn't lose any of his pace when he has to keep close control of the ball and it allows him to just glide past defenders and wreak havoc.

Rashford is often seen as a big game player but I think the reality is that big games are games against teams like Man City or Liverpool who will attack you and leave gaps, which Rashford will exploit, but he would do just as well vs a small team that attacks and equally he performs poorly vs big teams that play a low block. An example I want to give for my opinion on this is two of our recent games against Spurs. We played Spurs early into Ole's reign when they were still managed by Poch and they used a high line with attacking fullbacks & Rashford was excellent against them with all of the space to work with & even bagged the winning goal. Flash forward to our recent game against the same team, now managed by Mourinho, playing a low block with deep fullbacks & suddenly Rashford was dreadful, never providing a threat or attempting to beat his man & just disappeared from the game.

Next season could further highlight this issue if we bring in Sancho, a player that wouldn't beat Rashford in a race in a month of Sundays, but I can guarantee you he'll beat his fullback 10 times over for every time Rashford does it. Now, I mentioned at the start of this post that I've thought this for a while but I've decided to post about it now because I feel like this issue is being exposed by Shaw's absence. When Rashford faces up with his fullback he gets offered an overlap by Shaw nearly every time & plays the pass to Shaw to mitigate the need to take on the defender himself or the defender tracks Shaw and allows Rashford the space he needs to move into. Brandon Williams doesn't tend to offer the overlap, likely on account of his dominant right foot making it more difficult for him to put the ball into danger areas once he has overlapped, and this is now causing us to see time & again Rashford cutting back or dropping deep & trying to act as a playmaker instead of a winger.

For me it's imperative that Rashford works on his close control next season but what do you guys think? Is it a problem and if so how would you resolve it with our current squad? Or am I just talking nonsense?

Thank you for your time if you do read this long post :)
Great first post. I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I've also been frustrated with Rashford's lack of willingness to dribble, but now I just believe it's just because he isn't that good of a dribbler. Aside from his dribbling, I do believe his overall technique is fantastic. Just his dribbling and decision making needs improvement. I still have high hopes for him.
 
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Number32

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It's normal for any athlete to be less explosive after suffering a back injury. He needs more time to recover.
 

Sayros

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I think any winger is going to find it harder without an offensive back to create runs and spaces for them to work with, but it's even harder when you are coming back from a back injury as an explosive player. I think Rashford, outside of the odd moment here and there, is not a great dribbler, but with his pace and physique, he can do a much better job than he has recently but I just think he's not recovered and needs more time, my hope is that he's not making things worse for himself by being out there so much.
 

Jackal981

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Agree. When martial comes from the left he actively try to attack the defenders but rashy just stood over there.
 

KennyBurner

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There were a few occasions today when he could have taken initiative to run at his defender in open space but took the cowards way out. Im going to keep this short and say that he is currently suffering from a mentality issue linked to his back injury.

Before his injury Rashford was more willing to run at his man but its clear thats changed since the restart. I think we just have to keep supporting him till he gets that assured explosiveness we are used too. Id say he has been a 6/10 since the restart which isn't too bad.
 

treble_winner

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There were a few occasions today when he could have taken initiative to run at his defender in open space but took the cowards way out. Im going to keep this short and say that he is currently suffering from a mentality issue linked to his back injury.

Before his injury Rashford was more willing to run at his man but its clear thats changed since the restart. I think we just have to keep supporting him till he gets that assured explosiveness we are used too. Id say he has been a 6/10 since the restart which isn't too bad.
Do you think his unwillingness to run is from mentality issue? Feels more like an instruction from the coaches to me.
May be Bruno is the one being afforded the leeway of losing the ball while trying to attack the space now? Rashford is no longer afforded that and is told to not hold the ball more closely, perhaps?
 

Ali Dia

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I agree with this. I don’t get the wide playmaker thing. It’s a bit like Jesse running around a lot and everyone saying it’s a vital role. It’s just not playing to his strengths. I think he could be a dominant player if he became more threatening dribbling in tight spaces and took the shot/selfish option a bit more often. He could at least win a lot of penos and dangerous frees if he got going with some conviction. He hasn’t been threatening running into space on the counter either since the restart. Basically since the restart you can count his good games on one hand (villa, palace, Bournemouth and Sheffield Utd). I also agree he’s probably missing shaw out there too. Hopefully it’s just a fitness issue rather than a mental one. Martial did more on the wing the few times he drifted out there tonight than Rashford managed all game. I like the player but he needs competition and he needs to focus on what he’s good at. This is why I don’t get posters saying buying x or y player will disrupt players development. only giving yourself one solid option for a position is never a good idea for a club with our ambitions. I’d even say Chong would have done more tonight.
 
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Jibbs

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Hi all, my first thread posted so hopefully it's not a flop but I've been thinking about this for a while now & would love to see some other opinions.

Rashford, to me, shows a total lack of willingness to dribble with the ball. People often think players with bags of pace should be able to beat a man but I think reality is more complex than that. I see it as pace on the ball vs pace off the ball & it's something I don't find people paying enough attention to. Rashford is lightning quick when the ball is played into space for him to run onto or when he has open space to knock the ball into himself and chase after but he moves at a snails pace when he has to keep the ball close to his feet. This is very different to Martial who, whilst probably not being as fast as Rashford at top speed, doesn't lose any of his pace when he has to keep close control of the ball and it allows him to just glide past defenders and wreak havoc.

Rashford is often seen as a big game player but I think the reality is that big games are games against teams like Man City or Liverpool who will attack you and leave gaps, which Rashford will exploit, but he would do just as well vs a small team that attacks and equally he performs poorly vs big teams that play a low block. An example I want to give for my opinion on this is two of our recent games against Spurs. We played Spurs early into Ole's reign when they were still managed by Poch and they used a high line with attacking fullbacks & Rashford was excellent against them with all of the space to work with & even bagged the winning goal. Flash forward to our recent game against the same team, now managed by Mourinho, playing a low block with deep fullbacks & suddenly Rashford was dreadful, never providing a threat or attempting to beat his man & just disappeared from the game.

Next season could further highlight this issue if we bring in Sancho, a player that wouldn't beat Rashford in a race in a month of Sundays, but I can guarantee you he'll beat his fullback 10 times over for every time Rashford does it. Now, I mentioned at the start of this post that I've thought this for a while but I've decided to post about it now because I feel like this issue is being exposed by Shaw's absence. When Rashford faces up with his fullback he gets offered an overlap by Shaw nearly every time & plays the pass to Shaw to mitigate the need to take on the defender himself or the defender tracks Shaw and allows Rashford the space he needs to move into. Brandon Williams doesn't tend to offer the overlap, likely on account of his dominant right foot making it more difficult for him to put the ball into danger areas once he has overlapped, and this is now causing us to see time & again Rashford cutting back or dropping deep & trying to act as a playmaker instead of a winger.

For me it's imperative that Rashford works on his close control next season but what do you guys think? Is it a problem and if so how would you resolve it with our current squad? Or am I just talking nonsense?

Thank you for your time if you do read this long post :)
Great post. That is why I think if Sancho arrives, our default front three should be Sancho, Martial and Greenwood.
 

shahzy

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You really think if Sancho comes he's displacing any of the other two before Rashford? You're living in a different world there fella. Rashford has been quite average to bad since restart, be it due to injury or otherwise and as such, should a better player come in will lose his position. Nothing outrageous about that really
 

WR10

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Careful, there’s a lot of hostility on this forum for making this absolutely glaring point. For the past however god knows long ive
He consistently fails 8 out of 10 (basic - first touch, chest, dribble, pass, flick etc) skills he attempts in a game. Lacking natural talent at football but makes up for it with blistering pace and a ridiculous shot on him. But let’s be honest he’s insanely frustrating to watch. Wastes a lot of possession on that left wing and his brain runs on dial up compared to greenwood. A blunt sword
This is what we’ve been saying about him for 2 years now. Kick and run with no real conviction otherwise. He went on a goal scoring run when we had no other goal scoring options in first half of season. Now in a much more possession sophisticated team his weaknesses are glaring. He doesn’t back himself in tight spaces and resorts to either one touch passing it back or attempting ridiculous dribbles/tricks that are outside his natural ability. The most frustrating is his constant one touch pass back in dangerous channels.

Those are frustrating because that’s his chance to turn and unsettle the back line like Greenwood constantly does. He’s stuck in a Lingard mentality where he just doesn’t back himself in creating any possession value. Training-pitch like ball retention only. Useless. The only time he looks confident is when he’s got space to run in. That’s really not what you want from a starting 11 player in this team sorry.
People are unfortunately a little slow in acknowledging this. I get it, he’s currently Manchester’s sweet heart but don’t let that fool you. This kid is seeing himself fail at dribbling constantly in training and is actively choosing a pass back instead of a martial mazy run in games.

What’s even more concerning is he’s somehow developed this fantasy that he’s a wide playmaker. The kid can’t curve a ball to save his life. He has one technique striking the ball and that is a bottleneck.
 

MichaelRed

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Dont be blinding him with science
Well you've exploded onto the scene with a shocking amount of toxicity. Embarrassing for such a senior poster. I'd suggest you're in fact the one who is blinded by agreeing with a post talking about his injury taking away from his explosive pace. The point of my thread is that he actually still has that pace & uses it when afforded space to do so. The issue is that he's not attempting to dribble past players so the argument that it's because he doesn't want to use his pace, when he is doing so when there is space, is completely null and void. To add to this, any half-functioning adult knows that correlation does not always go hand in hand with causation and so to completely play it off as because of his injury is just lazy. I'm not saying his injury hasn't had an impact either, just that we can't say for certainty that it is the sole reason for this style of play - especially when he had this issue pre-injury.

40k posts since 2007 so I'm going to assume you're an adult so maybe act like one instead when you next decide to make 3 consecutive, negative & offensive posts rather than structuring a response that contributes to the discussion.
 

MichaelRed

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Careful, there’s a lot of hostility on this forum for making this absolutely glaring point. For the past however god knows long ive



People are unfortunately a little slow in acknowledging this. I get it, he’s currently Manchester’s sweet heart but don’t let that fool you. This kid is seeing himself fail at dribbling constantly in training and is actively choosing a pass back instead of a martial mazy run in games.

What’s even more concerning is he’s somehow developed this fantasy that he’s a wide playmaker. The kid can’t curve a ball to save his life. He has one technique striking the ball and that is a bottleneck.
It's crazy that Martial drifted onto the left for 15 minutes last night and ended the game as our best striker and best left winger.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I don't think being very far out wide suits Rashford as he's a forward rather than a winger who doesn't have impacable technically ability but does have pace and trickery. He's better off coming inside more with Williams keeping the width. But more than that, I suppose it is to do with confidence.
 

Roane

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I don't think it's the injury as Rashford was like this prior to his injury too.

I remember Hoddle doing an analysis on young players quite a long while back. His point was that young players in the academies and before they make it into the first team play a certain style of football. It's very direct and the idea is for the youngsters to showcase his talent therefore be more selfish.

When players come into the first team, they are taught to put team first. So if you have a shooting chance but another player is in a better position then you pass. Hoddle said this is where many youngsters fall and fail to live up to expectations.

With UTD we have gone through so much turmoil since SAF left I feel we haven't been able to nurture the youngsters properly. They have been rushed into the first team and maybe even forgone parts of their development. I refer back to even likes of Adnan who seemed to be emerging, potentially class players who didn't go on to be that. I see lots of similarities between Rash and Adnan.

I think part of the issue has been the pressure for UTD to be top 4 etc. Moyes didn't help but overall we should have maybe taken a season or two to regroup and develop the players. If that meant being 10th in the league so be it.

I also think that if we sign likes of Sancho and they hit the ground running we will see how likes of Rashy are not that great.
 

SteveW

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He looks like he's still easing in after his injury. He seems to be avoiding situations where he may need to ride a hefty challenge.

I think if Sancho comes we may see him rested quite a bit over the next few months until he can build up the necessary strength to support his back properly. This is of course a guess but there has been a very obvious change in his style of play post injury. That just doesn't happen without it being intentional.

Getting Sancho will allow him more time to do whatever rehab or rest may be necessary to get back to his physical best.
 

NewGlory

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Well, at some point he will have to get over the injury or we'll need to admit that the injury has damaged him permanently. Hopefully it's the former, but it's also fair to say that Rashford was an unfinished, unbalanced product even before the injury. He's got a ton to improve upon, to be a top-class starting forward.
 

meamth

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Form is temporary, class is permanent.

I've seen many times Rashford beating his man on the left this season...until recently that has stopped.

We will be seeing him doing the usual stuff soon.
 

Raees

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Injury doesn’t help but you also have to realise United play with such defensive full backs.. his job would be made easier with an attacking full back.

Having said that I do think a low block is a weakness of his when compared with a Mane for instance but it’s difficult to criticise him too much as one has very favourable conditions and the other clearly does not so I think time will tell in this regard.
 

cyril C

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So? Rooney never dribble, anyone writing a long article on his deficiency? If he can't, he can't. Use his strength and hide his weakness, is Ole's job. I am more concern with his match fitness, his 1st touch, then whether he can learn how to dribble.
 

padzilla

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He clearly needs to be rested instead of being thrown back into the deep end after coming back. A few games on the bench or a a couple of weeks' rest will do him the world of good, of course there is a fear that Ole won't drop certain players regardless of how bad they play - the De Gea scenario for example. Rashford's been pretty much a passenger since the restart with the exception of the Palace game.
 

Arka_BleedingRed

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Rashford in tight spaces has always been an average dribbler, but he had improved it to some extent in the first half of the season at least in terms of quantity than quality. But, I think his play style after the restart stems from the injury he has suffered. Back injuries are notoriously recurrent and hard to manage, and twin back fracture at the age of 22 is very difficult physically and mentally for any player.

What Rashford needs is time and ample rest to recover from the condition. So, I can understand the recent change in his style to minimize his explosiveness and avoid aggression so that his back comes under lesser stress. That being said, it is clearly affecting our play and it is of paramount importance that we get a Player who can replace him and Mason time to time without affecting our quality up front. That is why Sancho is the most suitable option as he can play on both the sides. If not Sancho, then at least someone who is explosive, a goal threat, and can play from both wings. Bailey, Dembele, Coman even Ismailla Sarr from Watford. But, the bottom line is that Sancho or not, we have to bring one in, otherwise it is going to have major long term implications on our young attack.
 
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Nickelodeon

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We need more from the full back. When Rashford comes deep, Williams rarely makes an overlap. And even if he did, both of them seemed on different wavelengths. Individually, Rashford was quite poor yesterday. But the system hasn’t been working for quite a while.
 

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So are we implying that Rashford would be of better use as number 9 and Martial a bettet winger? Any of you agree with this?
 

Shimo

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Was remarking to some friends over the weekend that something is off with him since games restarted. He's just not really had that drive to go most of the games, at least not unless he has green grass in front of him. Think it's strange because there were some videos of him in training before the games started and he looked like he was really at it taking people on. Not sure if it's not more mind related with everything he has been doing off the field rather than coming back off injury.

More than a few times today, seemed like he had a one on one and rather take the defender on, he kind of angrily passed it backwards.

Think Ole might want to consider having him come off the bench and next game and play either Ighalo up top and let Martial take the left side or even start Lingard - might just bring some fire back in him.
 

Desert Eagle

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So? Rooney never dribble, anyone writing a long article on his deficiency? If he can't, he can't. Use his strength and hide his weakness, is Ole's job. I am more concern with his match fitness, his 1st touch, then whether he can learn how to dribble.
He has a decent first touch actually. I agree with it being a mental block along with he was never as good as some hyped him up to be.
 

McGrathsipan

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He's just not as good as some think and I think dribbling is only one element for him to work on. Passing and finishing being others. He needs to step up next season and he needs to be dropped for the next game.
 

dal

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He’s not a great dribbler but it doesn’t mean he’s not a great goal scorer and provider from the left.

He’ll come good.
 

GazTheLegend

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Rashford doesn't or can't dribble???

Great first post. I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I've also been frustrated with Rashford's lack of willingness to dribble, but now I just believe it's just because he isn't that good of a dribbler.
This is a new low even for the caf

I must have imagined all those Ronaldinho flicks that Rashford does weekly to beat 1-2 and sometimes 3 people (edit: googled the name, the elastico or gaucho snake. Try it yourself some time - trust me Rashford has INSANE technique to do that regularly and effectively)

I do sort of see where OP and yourself are coming from but Rashford absolutely can dribble. I think he's just a bit too cautious sometimes when he's playing on the left and plays too safe.

If I had my 3 best dribblers from the United squad Rashford would be in there. Martial top of course and I'd have to rack my brains for the third.
 

gorky_utd

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He has been pretty poor since the restart. Don't know what is the issue but he clearly is the worst of our front 3 at the moment.
 

M Bison

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Good point OP, ignore the silly responses from the village idiots....

For me i think he's likely better than he's showing, as others have said the injury wont have helped although i dont believe thats the sole reason his dribbling looks poor. I'd like to see him more on the half turn and pushing the full back, back towards their own goal, that will help him get in behind and open up space for others. I get frustrated with him coming deep and closing the space, like you say he has pace to burn but to often he looks to come inside and/or come deep to collect the ball.

He's definitely got it in his locker (IMO) and we have seen this previously, but given his pace i think he should be on the toes of the defender making runs in behind, but thats probably more coaching style than anything.