[romufc]

He's 21 and incredibly raw.

What on earth were you expecting? Not everyone is Haaland.

What was Kane doing at 21?

Was Kane playing for Manutd at 21? No.

If he is incredibly raw... why did we sign him for 72m? Was Kane signed for 72m at 21 with 100k wage?

But anyway.. just to reply to you properly with data and information.

Kane is born in 1993 + 22 = 2015.
Hojlund is 22

In the 15/16 season, his first full PL season, Kane got 25 PL goals.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/harry-kane/leistungsdaten/spieler/132098/plus/0?saison=2015

So I dont know where you are going with this...

Hojlund clearly shows he is nowhere near good enough at the PL level at the moment. He may become a world class player but there are definitely no signs of it.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Earlier this season.



Honestly there is a player there but he's regressed a lot recently and his confidence has taken a big hit, he can't even do the basics right. Needs time away from the limelight and anyway he should be playing second fiddle to a more experienced striker.

Thas all highlights from counter attacks. He's just bad back to the goal. I wn=onder if he can learn it at this stage. Along with polishing his sometimes horrible first touch.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Well he may not lose the ball every time but it is about 70% of the time.

Statistically, by underlying stats, he is one of the worst strikers in the league.

Do you think he is good. Its well and good having a pop at someone's opinion but you have not yet rebutted anything.

A front line striker that starts most PL games has 6 shots on target... do you know how embarrassing that is? He is a striker right?

Is it not his job to make runs for players to find them?

I think he has a lot of potential, he is a central striker with pace, power, decent movement and attitude and a good shot on him. I agree he is weak aerially but his touch is my biggest concern - he will often do the hard part and create a pocket of space to receive the ball into, then lose the ball, the few times we play him in more directly - which obviously is against what Amorim wants to do - he generally does well in foot races/duels with isolated CBs. The issue is he should be behind someone better and more senior but he's not and he is the only senior CF we actually have at the club which is crazy in itself. There is no doubt he is underperforming but what I find strange is there is a certain section of fans who simply will not accept that his problems are exacerbated by the fundamental issue with regular chance creation in our team, it happens regardless of whether Hojlund starts.

We have limited data on him but his first full season was very good, he was scoring every 1 in 3 games + scoring a variety of goals which was promising. This season has been much more disappointing but, again, he is a young player and we really struggle to create chances across the team in general.

How we play now reminds me very much of how we ended up under LVG where Rooney was top scorer with 12 goals and RVP got 10. The whole setup made it so difficult for the central strikers to get good chances because we stopped putting in crosses and playing high risk balls through/counters, it's all back to goal, link play and more geared towards the wide attackers. With LVG we were 14th in the league for crossing, with Amorim we are 18th, how can you not see that stat and think there is a huge cause for concern re supply line into a CF?

I am having a pop at how over the top you have been, hence the quotes I highlighted.

 

[romufc]

I think he has a lot of potential, he is a central striker with pace, power, decent movement and attitude and a good shot on him. I agree he is weak aerially but his touch is my biggest concern - he will often do the hard part and create a pocket of space to receive the ball into, then lose the ball, the few times we play him in more directly - which obviously is against what Amorim wants to do - he generally does well in foot races/duels with isolated CBs. The issue is he should be behind someone better and more senior but he's not and he is the only senior CF we actually have at the club which is crazy in itself. There is no doubt he is underperforming but what I find strange is there is a certain section of fans who simply will not accept that his problems are exacerbated by the fundamental issue with regular chance creation in our team, it happens regardless of whether Hojlund starts.

We have limited data on him but his first full season was very good, he was scoring every 1 in 3 games + scoring a variety of goals which was promising. This season has been much more disappointing but, again, he is a young player and we really struggle to create chances across the team in general.

How we play now reminds me very much of how we ended up under LVG where Rooney was top scorer with 12 goals and RVP got 10. The whole setup made it so difficult for the central strikers to get good chances because we stopped putting in crosses and playing high risk balls through/counters, it's all back to goal, link play and more geared towards the wide attackers. With LVG we were 14th in the league for crossing, with Amorim we are 18th, how can you not see that stat and think there is a huge cause for concern re supply line into a CF?

I am having a pop at how over the top you have been, hence the quotes I highlighted.

Whilst I agree with you, he is our first choice ST and he starts most games, so I will judge him based on that.

I can accept a player is not the finished article but when there are no signs of improvement in the player, it gets really worrying.

His touch, I mean like you say I am over the top but its really bad, it causes us so many issues that he struggles to keep the ball, then it looks like we are a counter attacking team.

Mind you, saying all this we have massive issues around the squad with this, everytime the ball goes past the half way line we do struggle to keep the ball. which is why we spend so long with the ball with our CB's.

Sometimes you just want your CF to scrap and get hold of the ball and bring others into play, run the channels so we can put the ball in behind.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Whilst I agree with you, he is our first choice ST and he starts most games, so I will judge him based on that.

I can accept a player is not the finished article but when there are no signs of improvement in the player, it gets really worrying.

His touch, I mean like you say I am over the top but its really bad, it causes us so many issues that he struggles to keep the ball, then it looks like we are a counter attacking team.

Mind you, saying all this we have massive issues around the squad with this, everytime the ball goes past the half way line we do struggle to keep the ball. which is why we spend so long with the ball with our CB's.

Sometimes you just want your CF to scrap and get hold of the ball and bring others into play, run the channels so we can put the ball in behind.

I agree on the first part, that is where Hojlund struggles but disagree on the second part, as that is what he really wants to do but I don't think Amorim likes it.

 

[Smores]

He's 21 and incredibly raw.

What on earth were you expecting? Not everyone is Haaland.

What was Kane doing at 21?

Isn't that the point? He's been called out as no where near good enough to be a starter for us, which he isn't and he won't be for some time. You can't call for patience because of his age and how raw he is whilst also denying the criticism that he isn't ready to start for us. There's just no world where our starting striker can be a 21 year old that is this unready, that blame belongs to the club but whilst he is our starting striker he'll be judged against that benchmark.

I do think you could bring in Gyokeres and have Hojlund learn from him. As an understudy he'd probably advance a lot quicker.

 

[romufc]

I do think you could bring in Gyokeres and have Hojlund learn from him. As an understudy he'd probably advance a lot quicker.

This never happens, when was the last time an experienced ST and a young expensive ST every worked?

I mean we all thought that Hojlund will learn a thing or two from RVN as he was the coach.

The excuse then will be well to improve he needs game time and a consistent run in the team.

 

[Holocene]

This never happens, when was the last time an experienced ST and a young expensive ST every worked?

I mean we all thought that Hojlund will learn a thing or two from RVN as he was the coach.

The excuse then will be well to improve he needs game time and a consistent run in the team.

Tend to agree. The same was said about Ronaldo and Cavani teaching our young players.

 

[Smores]

This never happens, when was the last time an experienced ST and a young expensive ST every worked?

I mean we all thought that Hojlund will learn a thing or two from RVN as he was the coach.

The excuse then will be well to improve he needs game time and a consistent run in the team.

What aspect doesn't work? I don't get your point

It's not an excuse it's just a fact that young players look to other players to refine their own games. They don't need to play with them of course, Haaland spoke of watching Vardy and Ronaldo to hone his movement but obviously a team mate doing in the same system is better.

I just don't think Hojlund understands his job and there's only so much a coach can do. There's more at issue here than quality, he's in the wrong positions trying the wrong movements and those are the things he can learn.

 

[Red in STL]

Tend to agree. The same was said about Ronaldo and Cavani teaching our young players.

In Ronaldo's case he basically refused to do that

 

[pcaming]

He's 21 and incredibly raw.

What on earth were you expecting? Not everyone is Haaland.

What was Kane doing at 21?

Right now it's not just about being raw, he's showing absolutely no kind of talent whatsoever.

 

[Pexbo]

In Ronaldo's case he basically refused to do that

On the contrary I think he actually tried and was super frustrated at the response/attitude/application of our youngsters and a bit mystified that they had a legend like Ronaldo to learn from and just weren’t interested.

In hindsight it was probably both Greenwood and Rashford.

 

[Red in STL]

On the contrary I think he actually tried and was super frustrated at the response/attitude/application of our youngsters and a bit mystified that they had a legend like Ronaldo to learn from and just weren’t interested.

In hindsight it was probably both Greenwood and Rashford.

I'm sure I read a report that he refused but perhaps that was later, he certainly criticised some players for not following his example

 

[Apokalips]

I'm sure I read a report that he refused but perhaps that was later, he certainly criticised some players for not following his example

I am sure I recall seeing the opposite, that he was confused at why the youngsters were not as keen to learn from him as he was to learn from Scholes, Giggs, Ruud, etc. when he was a youngster.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Well he may not lose the ball every time but it is about 70% of the time.

Statistically, by underlying stats, he is one of the worst strikers in the league.

Do you think he is good. Its well and good having a pop at someone's opinion but you have not yet rebutted anything.

A front line striker that starts most PL games has 6 shots on target... do you know how embarrassing that is? He is a striker right?

Is it not his job to make runs for players to find them?

Well, if you’re really interested in why some of us reacts to posts like yours, here’s why:

Every time we try to bring explanations to the table, we’re accused of making excuses.
The claims are often very exaggerated and not based on evidence (other than “the eye test”).
You (as in “you guys”) don’t seem to have read this thread thoroughly so we have to start over every blo*** time - it’s a waste of energy.
It’s hard to understand why fans go after young players that hard and without nuance - especially players who, like Hojlund, is dedicated to the club.
You generally disregard every argument that you don’t have an immediate answer to instead of thinking about it for just a moment. For example, no one has yet explained how a player catapulted from the bench at a Danish club to Manchester United through Austria and Italy and widely regarded by scouts and coaches as one of the biggest striker talents in Europe (showcased many times at Atalanta) can suddenly become as bad as you think. Or how he pulled off some of the many elegant flicks and turns last season while allegedly being unable to do so.
When you do use stats it’s usually extreme cherry picking.

No one is claiming he’s playing well this season. But the drop from last season is massive and it’s obvious it’s a combination of the team declining and him lacking confidence. Both should hopefully improve soon. If not, he’ll go come summer.

 

[Bobski]

Do people understand that even after his decent goal tally debut season there were a ton of concerns around his all round game?

His technical issues were already a problem that needed fixing, they are not a by product of him losing confidence in his game this season. I have always been far less concerned by his goal tally than his all round game, he can finish, eventually he will find himself in more scoring positions, but what is his end form even scoring more, stretch for him to even become a lesser Lukaku with his skillset.

He needs to show significant improvement in the rest of the season, Spurs should be an opportunity for him, defensively ill disciplined, leave a ton of space, he had to be a threat in that game.

 

[Leftback99]

This never happens, when was the last time an experienced ST and a young expensive ST every worked?

I mean we all thought that Hojlund will learn a thing or two from RVN as he was the coach.

The excuse then will be well to improve he needs game time and a consistent run in the team.

Not all of us. It was a daft assumption. You either have it or you don't. Hojlund doesn't.

 

[honirelandboy]

Id take a young heskey over him right now

 

[Hoof the ball]

Id take a young heskey over him right now

I'd take stepover Heskey over current Hojlund.

 

[JB08]

Not all of us. It was a daft assumption. You either have it or you don't. Hojlund doesn't.

Van Nisterooy had just left FC Den Bosch at Hojlund’s age.

He may well prove not good enough but statements like yours are both unhelpful and frequently untrue.

 

[Grande]

Not all of us. It was a daft assumption. You either have it or you don't. Hojlund doesn't.

Yea, it’s pretty simple. That’s why so many pub brawlers go on to win the Premier League.

 

[Fobal]

I still don't get why people still brings or still talk about former 21/22 or even younger strikers/forwards/offensive former players, worse some propoer Legends.
It doesn't help Rasmus at all, there are quite a number of players that were trully great at that age or younger.

The issue here would always be:
1. What they paid without proper experience/pedigree and how this influences everything, from his head, to pundits, to fans
2. The state of the team in general, the majority at least is having bad games frequently, it's like a domino effect.
3. Expecting Rasmus to show numbers or atributes that he never had before purely based on his age
4. And finally, the kid dealing with all these things, right now has a very low confidence that makes his current form bad, this stuff affects ANY player, no matter talent, he has to go throught this rough patch to see if there is light at the end of the tunnel in United.

 

[Red in STL]

I still don't get why people still brings or still talk about former 21/22 or even younger strikers/forwards/offensive former players, worse some propoer Legends.
It doesn't help Rasmus at all, there are quite a number of players that were trully great at that age or younger.

The issue here would always be:
1. What they paid without proper experience/pedigree and how this influences everything, from his head, to pundits, to fans
2. The state of the team in general, the majority at least is having bad games frequently, it's like a domino effect.
3. Expecting Rasmus to show numbers or atributes that he never had before purely based on his age
4. And finally, the kid dealing with all these things, right now has a very low confidence that makes his current form bad, this stuff affects ANY player, no matter talent, he has to go throught this rough patch to see if there is light at the end of the tunnel in United.

Who werethese truly great players at that age, I don't recall too many over the years

 

[Fobal]

Who werethese truly great players at that age, I don't recall too many over the years

Historically the list is huge.

At 22 like Rasmus and in fact many of them quite younger where already scoring in double figures in first division. It's not that uncommon, IN FACT, Rasmus himself scored 16 last season. Also it's not that uncommon for some players to be late boomers regarding scoring and ending having extraordinary carreers as goalscorers.

Many mentioned here not being even mostly pure strikers, some not even trully extraordinary goalscorers and merely forwards/ ST/ off mids with a very good scoring output, while many having other notable atributes, not only goalscoring.

We can go over the top citing Oldies like Di Stefano, Sivori, to more recent phenoms like Ronaldo, Romario...
Or also more recent in time fellas like:

Batistuta
Raul
Crespo
RVN
Villa
Saviola
Tevez
Rooney
Falcao
Aguero
Thomas Muller
Neymar
Kane
Dybala
Julian Alvarez
...and new Gen with Wirtz and Yamal


In any case that it's not that important, some players are late boomers, some players have great starts and later fall a bit, or never recover, the majority face difficult stages and some end becoming legendary players.
The focus should be in his ACTUAL problems, some of them not even his fault at all and not trying to play Devil's advocate and use the Age card and throwing comparisons with former players, than more than help, burn the kid even more.
It just adds fuel to the fire for those that already do not like nor rate the kid.

 

[Red in STL]

Historically the list is huge.

At 22 like Rasmus and in fact many of them quite younger where already scoring in double figures in first division. It's not that uncommon, IN FACT, Rasmus himself scored 16 last season. Also it's not that uncommon for some players to be late boomers regarding scoring and ending having extraordinary carreers as goalscorers.

Many mentioned here not being even mostly pure strikers, some not even trully extraordinary goalscorers and merely forwards/ ST/ off mids with a very good scoring output, while many having other notable atributes, not only goalscoring.

We can go over the top citing Oldies like Di Stefano, Sivori, to more recent phenoms like Ronaldo, Romario...
Or also more recent in time fellas like:

Batistuta
Raul
Crespo
RVN
Villa
Saviola
Tevez
Rooney
Falcao
Aguero
Thomas Muller
Neymar
Kane
Dybala
Julian Alvarez
...and new Gen with Wirtz and Yamal


In any case that it's not that important, some players are late boomers, some players have great starts and later fall a bit, or never recover, the majority face difficult stages and some end becoming legendary players.
The focus should be in his ACTUAL problems, some of them not even his fault at all and not trying to play Devil's advocate and use the Age card and throwing comparisons with former players, than more than help, burn the kid even more.
It just adds fuel to the fire for those that already do not like nor rate the kid.

Sure they're way better than Hojlund at 21-22 but there's only 1-2 that would be considered truly great at that age

 

[JE-365]

I do understand. You haven’t seen him strike the ball well from range and conclude he has to improve his shooting. I say that we really haven’t seen him try at all hence don’t know if he’s good at it or not - the only evidence we have is from quite close range and he’s excellent at that. Yes, I know it’s not excactly the same, but he’s had quite a few nice shots in different way and from different angles. Even if that doesn’t prove that he’s good at shooting from longer distances at least it doesn’t prove the opposite either.
For me it’s very simple: You’ve made a claim that you can’t back up and insist on doubling down.
Anyway, it’s not important enough to keep this going. I’ll just remind you that in my first answer I said I agreed with your points bar this one.

I don’t think you quite understand what I meant by ball striking. Even the RVP first goal for us vs Fulham is also another example of great ball striking and that’s from a close range.

For me it’s very simple, if the players haven’t demonstrate it in two different clubs, it’s an evidence that’s he hasn’t got the confidence to do it because it’s yet to be his main strength. Whether you like it or no, it’s still an evidence to back my statement to say it’s yet to be his main strength and he has room for improvement in that aspect to make it as his main strength. You just don’t like the evidence but it’s still evidence that ball striking is yet to be his main strength.

 

[Rozay]

He's 21 and incredibly raw.

What on earth were you expecting? Not everyone is Haaland.

What was Kane doing at 21?

Which is why most 21 year olds are not in the job that Hojlund has. It has nothing to with age and everything to do with the standard required to be a United forward. If most 21 year olds are not up to that standard, then perhaps we should only be signing the ones who are - instead of simply lowering that bar to whatever Hojlund is putting out now, which is amongst the worst I’ve ever seen leading the line for us on this form. Him being 21 is jot an excuse.

16 year olds don’t not play for us because they are 16, they don’t play for us because it’s extremely unlikely that they are good enough to do so at 16. However, if one was, then they would. Hojlund being 21 (22 actually) is not my or any other fan’s problem. It’s not mandatory that he should be playing for United, so whether he is not good enough or simply not old enough to do so, it makes no difference at all.

Kane is a pointless example as he wasn’t playing for us at 21, nor expected to.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

I don’t think you quite understand what I meant by ball striking. Even the RVP first goal for us vs Fulham is also another example of great ball striking and that’s from a close range.

For me it’s very simple, if the players haven’t demonstrate it in two different clubs, it’s an evidence that’s he hasn’t got the confidence to do it because it’s yet to be his main strength. Whether you like it or no, it’s still an evidence to back my statement to say it’s yet to be his main strength and he has room for improvement in that aspect to make it as his main strength. You just don’t like the evidence but it’s still evidence that ball striking is yet to be his main strength.

I hope you’re not an attorney, judge or investigator with that definition of evidence.

That aside, “two different clubs”? I mean, he did show it in glimpses here last season, but he had quite a few very well taken shots from different positions at Atalanta and Sturm Graz - and the NT as well, I believe. He knows how to strike a ball, I have no idea why you cling to this so badly. You can see it for yourself if you care to watch his games.

 

[Doracle]

Which is why most 21 year olds are not in the job that Hojlund has. It has nothing to with age and everything to do with the standard required to be a United forward. If most 21 year olds are not up to that standard, then perhaps we should only be signing the ones who are - instead of simply lowering that bar to whatever Hojlund is putting out now, which is amongst the worst I’ve ever seen leading the line for us on this form. Him being 21 is jot an excuse.

16 year olds don’t not play for us because they are 16, they don’t play for us because it’s extremely unlikely that they are good enough to do so at 16. However, if one was, then they would. Hojlund being 21 (22 actually) is not my or any other fan’s problem. It’s not mandatory that he should be playing for United, so whether he is not good enough or simply not old enough to do so, it makes no difference at all.

Kane is a pointless example as he wasn’t playing for us at 21, nor expected to.

Kane is actually a great example. At 21, he was scoring 30+ goals and, although still raw, already looked one of the league’s best CFs. A 21 year old Kane would be our best player.

 

[Leftback99]

For every Kane there's been hundreds of other 22 year old strikers at big clubs that amounted to nothing special.

You can apply the same argument of "where was (insert legendary player) at 21?" to any player in any position at any club. It's meaningless.

 

[bgoodall]

He really needs to step it up with Amad out. We have no more time to be patient with either him or Zirkzee. Sink or swim for rest of the season or we need to cut loose. Playing forward shouldn’t be this difficult. The lack of touches and shot attempts is unacceptable.

 

[Rozay]

Kane is actually a great example. At 21, he was scoring 30+ goals and, although still raw, already looked one of the league’s best CFs. A 21 year old Kane would be our best player.

It’s by the way anyway. I’m aware that Kane actually put up big numbers at 21, but that wasn’t his point so I didn’t even correct it. The point was supposed to be that there are plenty of players who are good enough to play for United eventually who are not good enough at 21. Which can be extrapolated to any age below 21 too. There are players who will one day be good enough to play for United who are currently 13. My point is, they shouldn’t be in the United team at 13 if they clearly cannot add anything yet. It’s very debatable whether Hojlund’s issue is simply a matter of age/experience as opposed to ability (I believe it’s probably a combination of the two personally) - but he shouldn’t be here if what he can produce is 6 shots on target 6 months into the season. It’s just simply unacceptable, and we should not be making excuses for it. The bar is the bar.

 

[JE-365]

I hope you’re not an attorney, judge or investigator with that definition of evidence.

That aside, “two different clubs”? I mean, he did show it in glimpses here last season, but he had quite a few very well taken shots from different positions at Atalanta and Sturm Graz - and the NT as well, I believe. He knows how to strike a ball, I have no idea why you cling to this so badly. You can see it for yourself if you care to watch his games.

What glimpse?

Anyone know how to strike the ball. Whether they’re good at it is different matter. Hojlund has yet to demonstrate that he can strike the ball to a point where he doesn’t need improvement. Anyone who show glimpse to capable to do something doesn’t mean they don’t need to improve it. Why are you so reluctant for Hojlund to improve an aspect that is yet to be his main strength?

 

[Shane88]

He really needs to step it up with Amad out. We have no more time to be patient with either him or Zirkzee. Sink or swim for rest of the season or we need to cut loose. Playing forward shouldn’t be this difficult. The lack of touches and shot attempts is unacceptable.

Exactly. Time to stop coddling this guy now. We're down to 3 forwards for the rest of the season. Score some fecking goals, Rasmus.

 

[Denis79]

He's 21 and incredibly raw.

What on earth were you expecting? Not everyone is Haaland.

What was Kane doing at 21?

At the same age as Hojlund Kane won young player of the year in the Premier League and scored 21 goals in the competition finishing runner-up top scorer. The following season he actually won the golden boot with 25 goals. It's time to stop comparing Hojlund to world class talent, because he isn't.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

If Amad's injury is true then I'd like to see Hojlund given the chance to play as a RF.

We could use his speed and his apparent natural channel running ability to get in behind the defence from slightly out wide and use his left foot for finishes.

I doubt it will happen though and Amorim will probably use Bruno or Zirkzee as one of his AM's.

 

[Cloud7]

For every Kane there's been hundreds of other 22 year old strikers at big clubs that amounted to nothing special.

You can apply the same argument of "where was (insert legendary player) at 21?" to any player in any position at any club. It's meaningless.

Yeah this is why I don't get that argument. Most strikers never hit the level required of a United striker. Just because someone is young doesn't mean they're going to reach the required level.

 

[Gandalf]

Yeah this is why I don't get that argument. Most strikers never hit the level required of a United striker. Just because someone is young doesn't mean they're going to reach the required level.

Well this argument is made to counter the constant stream of “he is shit” posts which offer no nuance at all. The point is simply that he could make a breakthrough, not that he will or that it is even the more likely outcome but just stating that it is too early in his career to definitely write him off.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

What glimpse?

Anyone know how to strike the ball. Whether they’re good at it is different matter. Hojlund has yet to demonstrate that he can strike the ball to a point where he doesn’t need improvement. Anyone who show glimpse to capable to do something doesn’t mean they don’t need to improve it. Why are you so reluctant for Hojlund to improve an aspect that is yet to be his main strength?

All players should improve all aspects of their game if possible, but I presume you made the list to point out areas where he is not strong. Now I understand that your evidence for that is that you don’t recall a quality strike from him (whatever your definition of that is). Then you say that he hasn’t done it for two clubs by which I presume you mean us and Atalanta.
Now, I’ve followed him since Italy and he has thundered the ball in under the bar, lobbed it over keepers and hit it with quality in a lot of different ways in his very short career since leaving Denmark. You can find examples easily if you want, but you may not since this seems to be about winning a discussion more than anything else. I don’t have any more to add.

 

[DWelbz19]

If Amad's injury is true then I'd like to see Hojlund given the chance to play as a RF.

We could use his speed and his apparent natural channel running ability to get in behind the defence from slightly out wide and use his left foot for finishes.

I doubt it will happen though and Amorim will probably use Bruno or Zirkzee as one of his AM's.

Hojlund is pretty hideous in the buildup. I don’t think you can play him anywhere other than right at the tip of the attack