I don't think you choose to "give up" on trophies. Also, the key reason Arsenal faltered was their lack of squad depth once they got a couple of injuries in the second half of the season. I think we are in a similar place and need both a couple of first team upgrades and better strength in depth.
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
- Thread starter Zoo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
- Status
Yes but that's because there is a gaping hole up front for Utd which has come from various unfortunate situations with Cavani, Greenwood and Ronaldo all leaving for various reasons. That doesn't mean Utd shouldn't be aiming for players of a higher level for the striker position though. The likes of Casemiro, Bruno, Martinez, Rashford, Shaw are better than any players Atalanta have. I've no problem with Hojlund as a backup striker, especially if we get Kane as our main striker because by then you'd hope Hojlund would be ready to take over if he's progressed. Getting him as our starting striker would just set us further back imo. €40m for Hojlund as a backup would be much more interesting imo.
I agree with this but is there any indication that we're doing that? No links to DMs to be Casemiro's backups so far. DDG new contract talks, no links to new GKs. The way we're going we'll sign a CB, CF and a CM and keep DDG as #1 and hope his passing improves (TBF to him he actually improved quite a bit as the season went on)
If it's Hojlund he might / might not be ready to start every game, so he'll be rotating with Martial next season. My baseline expectation then is ~ the same points total as this season.
Curious why you don't think KMJ doesn't fit. He seems like the ideal defender to complement Martinez. Similar to Timber in that he's fast, aggressive, good with his feet and can pass well. If we didn't have Varane, I'd be all over this one.
Lavia would be a no brainer given Southampton's relegation, just hope the club prioritizes quickly enough because a Villa / Fulham / West Ham type club snap him up.
Many managers played second string sides in FA Cup / League cups when they didn't have sufficient squad depth. Why not play guys like Pellistri, Iqbal, have them gain some experience and if you lose, oh well, no big deal.
No point running Rashford and Bruno into the ground to chase a domestic cup next season.
Odd thing to say when were on the cusp of winning them both.
(we wont but we are close)That transfer business only makes us good enough for another top 4. If we are serious on catching City then we need to sign better first team players. Especially a top ST scoring 30-40 goals. Putting that pressure on Hojlund is unfair and he will need couple of years to get used to the league.
Regarding giving up trophies that never works out. See how Arsenal fans were happy to get out of Europa but then suffered in the PL. Its the winning mentality that keeps the form intact in the PL as well.
Kane scored 21 league goals in his 1st full season at the age of 21. Yes he was 1 year older than Hojlund but I don't think that's a great comparison personally.
No one told you that we shouldn't aim for Kane, Hojlund and nearly all the other strikers mentioned are alternative in case Kane is not an option and all of them are better than what we had this season, the main differentiator will be prices.
And Hojlund should'nt sign for anyone as a backup, it's a terrible idea for him and whoever decides to spend 40m on a player that will not have the necessary gametime to develop. IF we sign Kane only a young player that isn't in a breakout season should consider a move to United.
Varane is the factor as to why I don't want Kim, and casemiros is the factor as to why I don't want Rice. Both are excellent players, just i don't agree with signing players where we already have a top player for the same role.
Been plenty of links with goalkeepers, and very few with CBs to be honest, so I'm pretty happy with the talk. No rumors about lavia sadly but plenty with rabiot which makes sense on a free.
My guess on our summer business is Hojlund, Rabiot, Mount and then probably that young Belgian GK.
No offence but I don't think that list of signings would improve us much at all. I'm hoping we're aiming for much better players than that. By the time our cf maybe becomes good in 2-3 years Bruno, Casemiro, Varane, Shaw will all be either gone or past their best. The only top class players we have outside that group I'd argue are Martinez and Rashford, maybe Costa could be but too early to tell. We're basically guaranteeing we won't be challenging for the next 5 years with a summer like that.
It's bizarre to see some people here acting like adding one of the best strikers in the world to a team who finished 3rd and whose biggest problem this season was very obviously the inability to score goals couldn't possibly make us into title challengers. It can't guarantee a league title because the best squad in the world stands in our way, but it makes it much more possible. No team in the history of the PL, including ourselves, has ever won 4 league titles in a row. It's not an easy thing to do in a league with as much money as the PL, even for the best team in the world. Going with a mindset of "we can't win so let's not even try" is pretty sad. I doubt ETH or the players look at it that way and I certainly hope they don't.
Last edited:
This is a very strange opinion to have on a Utd forum. SAF always had multiple strikers that were good enough to be starters and would rotate. It's the one position he insisted on it. Javier Hernandez, Welbeck, Saha, Tevez, Ole, Andy Cole, Berbatov, McClair all had seasons where they were way too good to not be starters but because SAF rotated them effectively it didn't matter and they made us into a stronger team that was competing. City are literally doing that right now with Alvarez and he's doing totally fine (great in fact). I don't see why the idea of a good young player starting as a squad player and gradually developing into a starter seems to anger you so much.
In terms of not being able to get Kane, my point is I think we would be better overpaying to get Kane who has all the leverage with 1 year left on his contract. Levy will sell at some price. If Kane signing was to end up winning us a league title he'd be worth well over £100m. We paid nearly that for Antony, and I don't care what age Antony is, he's never going to reach the level that Kane has (no offence to Antony, he can improve but clearly his potential is below one of the absolute best in the world).
Last edited:
Neymar on a two year loan together with Hojlund and then bringing in Ferguson in two years time to compete with Hojlund would be an exciting prospect. Having these guys playing up front and linking up with the wingers we would cause havoc.Funny thing is, if you actually want someone like Fergurson to become top class - like a lot of the Irish fans want, the best thing he can do is have a full season (i'd even say 2) with you and nail down the centre forward spot and start racking up the numbers. He gets European exposure, he gets consistency in his development with yourselves and at the end of it we can come in and throw you a small fortune to take him off your hands.
How should I be pronouncing this? I've been doing 'Hoyland' in my head but I'm not sure that's based on anything.
Hoylun
They'd improve us massively! It would also give us scope to improve further in the coming years to sustain a challenge. We can get Kane on a free in a year. We finished 3rd but we were far away from city, and many would argue that we were quite lucky in getting the points total that we did. We need to build into a dominant team that can sustain a dominant system across all competitions, over a long season. We struggled massively in that aspect. Don't get me wrong, we have improved a lot and I'm delighted with the season, but literally just improving the system, consistency and achieving our same points total would be a good step forward. Because I genuinely feel we had a ton go our way this season in terms of the results of matches. Even just looking at underlying stats. We overperformed our expected points by almost 9 points despite massively underperforming our xG with shit finishing. We won a stupid amount of tight games by 1 goal, and it's unlikely to repeat that. So step 1 has to be "deservedly" getting upper 70's/low 80's points while also keeping a high level in cups. We can be basically grinding out every game over a season. After that we can think about making the next step for a title challenge. Kane does the first step, so do the others. The others and then Kane for free probably gives us time to do both steps naturally. To compete for the title next season, I think we'd need a massive amount of luck, and I think we already had a ton of that this year so it's unlikely to happen in back to back years.
Correctly
How is that strange? Ignoring the fact that United played with two strikers and that SAF had the habit of rotating a lot which doesn't apply to ETH, look at the list of players you shared.
- Hernandez was signed at 22 and didn't actually develop, he was signed as a relatively cheap rotational player and remained one.
- Saha was signed at 25-26 years old years. He was signed to be a starter not a backup and was a starter.
- Tevez was already a star player and signed at 23 after several high level seasons in SA and in the PL. he was signed as a starter.
- Cole was 21 and already had is breakout season at Newcastle with 34 goals in 40 games. He was signed as a starter.
- Berbatov was Tottenham's star, signed as a starter at 27/28 years old.
- McClair was signed at 23-24 years old, well past his breakout season.
What is strange is to list players that weren't in their breakout seasons, that weren't considered as backup, at the exception of Hernandez, and weren't in a situation were their development was at risk.
I can kinda see your point if the idea is to still get Kane at the end of the season. That's just giving up 1 season as opposed to just throwing away any chance of winning for the next 5 or more years. The impression I was getting from some posters was basically get Hojlund and don't bother getting Kane at all which seems crazy to me. Adding Hojlund wouldn't improve our goal numbers that much imo unless he improves massively in that year (which can sometimes happen with young players) but I'd like to think he'd at least add a few considering he should be available more than Martial is. It does concern me that Rashford could have a lower scoring season which could end up being catastrophic though.
I'd also like to think we would be adding better players in other positions if that was our strategy. I'd want a better midfielder than Mount if we were deciding to save money on Kane. Realistically with the money we'd save we should be spending that on Rice or Caicedo imo (I'm sure some will say they're 6s not 8s, but I've watched both enough to know they can easily perform both roles to a very high level, Rice in particular will become more and more like an 8 in the next few years imo). The most important thing is we don't waste the quality players we have and end up starting from point 0 to form an entirely new squad with nothing to show for it.
The point wasn't whether they were signed as a starter or not or whether it was their breakout season or not, the point was they were all rotated at Utd and it didn't prevent them having success at Utd. Maybe ETH would rotate if he actually had the players to rotate. Our squad depth right now is awful and the likes of Sancho, Antony, Martial, Weghorst, Fred, Eriksen, Malacia, AWB and Dalot have all been rotated throughout the season despite your suggestion otherwise.
That was exactly the point. People suggested that he should be signed as a backup and I stated that a player in his breakout season shouldn't sign anywhere to be a backup..
It wasn't my point. My point is he will still get game time throughout the season and can still develop. I don't agree with your point that because he's a young player and in his breakout season that he shouldn't be a backup. Your point suggests that he's not going to get enough minutes to develop, whereas my point is that he will get enough minutes to continue developing to the stage where he will then be ready to take over as our leading striker if he's good enough. The examples I gave were to reinforce my point that a team can have more than 1 striker who still gets plenty of game time if they're good enough.
If you want a direct comparison in terms of a young player going to be a backup in their breakout season, I already gave you one, which you conveniently ignored in Julian Alvarez at City. My point is squad depth is healthy for a top team regardless of age. If anything competition spurs on players to be better.
The premise of your post was that my point was strange, it would make no sense if what you wrote wasn't about the point that I made. Otherwise we are talking about two independent points and I have no idea about what yours is.
And Alvarez wasn't signed for 40m, he has played less than Hojlund has done this season and has scored less. And I wouldn't be surprised if Alvarez had picked an other team if he knew that Haaland was on his way.
Within your point, you mentioned that he wouldn't develop because he wouldn't get enough game time. My main point was a response to this. He will get game time to develop because there'll be rotation and he'll get sub appearances like Garnacho has.
Alvarez wasn't signed for €40m because his breakout season came in Argentina instead of Italy where there is less money in football. Despite playing less I doubt many would claim Alvarez is being held back and if you asked most who they think the better striker is between Hojlund and Alvarez I think most would respond Alvarez despite him not starting many games. He's continued developing and he takes his chance whenever he gets it. Once Haaland leaves in a few years Alvarez will be ready to step up and take over.
Also, Hojlund is already being rotated at Atalanta anyway, it's not like he's a permanent starter. Becoming a rotation option for a better side at Utd would still be progress.
Last edited:
For €50 it's a no brainer really, this kid has it all. People in this thread are up in arms about 8 goals, but don't consider goals per 90, which puts him close to a 1 in 2 player already.
My first post here after many years just reading. Hope you enjoy it.
I’ve followed Rasmus Højlund (yes, that’s how it is spelled in Danish) since he was around 15-16 years old.
The summary: He is the real deal (!), but still very raw.
Youth career: He is from the city Hørsholm where he played until the age of 11-12 and moved to Brøndby IF. He stayed there for around three years until he moved to the direct rival in FC Copenhagen. He scored 15 goals in 22 games for U19, and then got his debut for the first team at the age of 17. He was known as a very serious person, and already at the age of 12-13 he was serious about self-training and food etc.
Family: He comes from a football family. His father played one season in the Superliga (the best League in Denmark). He was also an attacker. Rasmus has two smaller brothers who are twins - both of them plays at FC Copenhagen. They are 18. Emil is also a striker and scored 6 goals in 13 matches this year in the strong U19-division. Oscar is a central midfielder and played 22 games and scored 7 in the U19-division. Both of them also highly rated
FC Copenhagen: He never really got a real chance. FC Copenhagen sold their big star Jonas Wind to Wolfsburg in the winter transfer window and was afraid of replacing him with an 18 year old. So they bought two old proven attackers. Højlund was quite upset with that and felt he should have given a fair chance. He played 32 games and scored 5 goals ( nearly 20 of the games was under 20 minutes of play time). He then switched to Sturm Graz.
Sturm Graz: He only played there for a half a season, where he was outstanding right from the beginning. He scored 12 goals in 21 games and 4 assists. In the 8 games he played in the 22/23 season, he scored 6 goals in 8 and 4 assists. It was here he quickly became known as the new Haaland.
Atalanta: He got a move to Atalanta and has played 33 games and scored 9 goals and made 4 assists. Atalantas formation varies a lot, so Højlund has played both as a single striker and with a second striker next to him. The coach, Gasperini, about Højlund: “Technical and in many other aspects, I have never seen a striker at the age of 20 that strong. And he still has room for improvement in the air, in the box and the last pass.” His xG90 is 0.46. His 8 goals in the league comes from xG of 9.04, so there is room for improvement of his coolness.
National team: He made a hat trick in his debut and has now scvored 5 goals in 4 games.
Style of play: The first thing you notice, is how fast and strong he is. In a test at Atalanta, he ran 100 meter in just 10,8! And even said afterwards, that in better condition he could have been even faster. As this is my first post, I am not allowed to post a video, but search Twitter for his game against Lazio, where four Lazio-players just looking at while he is running past them.
He is quite often compared to Haaland, and his style of plays is very much the same. He is left footed and with good finishing skills. He has great technique and is good with his body against the goal. His biggest problem, and I guess it is pretty common at his age, is his consistency. He is also a good press player, although he can develop that area even more.
United? Well, I think it is too soon for him to be the certain number one forward. He is of course way better than Weghorst. He will always be a handful for any defenders due to his enormous speed, so I can definitely see him getting a role next season - and also in the case we buy Kane.
You can never be 100 % sure, but I am willing to bet half my house, that this kid is going to make it. Can he become a striker who scores +20 goals in the league? Yes, without a doubt. He has every mental and psychical skills for doing that, but only time will tell.
I’ve followed Rasmus Højlund (yes, that’s how it is spelled in Danish) since he was around 15-16 years old.
The summary: He is the real deal (!), but still very raw.
Youth career: He is from the city Hørsholm where he played until the age of 11-12 and moved to Brøndby IF. He stayed there for around three years until he moved to the direct rival in FC Copenhagen. He scored 15 goals in 22 games for U19, and then got his debut for the first team at the age of 17. He was known as a very serious person, and already at the age of 12-13 he was serious about self-training and food etc.
Family: He comes from a football family. His father played one season in the Superliga (the best League in Denmark). He was also an attacker. Rasmus has two smaller brothers who are twins - both of them plays at FC Copenhagen. They are 18. Emil is also a striker and scored 6 goals in 13 matches this year in the strong U19-division. Oscar is a central midfielder and played 22 games and scored 7 in the U19-division. Both of them also highly rated
FC Copenhagen: He never really got a real chance. FC Copenhagen sold their big star Jonas Wind to Wolfsburg in the winter transfer window and was afraid of replacing him with an 18 year old. So they bought two old proven attackers. Højlund was quite upset with that and felt he should have given a fair chance. He played 32 games and scored 5 goals ( nearly 20 of the games was under 20 minutes of play time). He then switched to Sturm Graz.
Sturm Graz: He only played there for a half a season, where he was outstanding right from the beginning. He scored 12 goals in 21 games and 4 assists. In the 8 games he played in the 22/23 season, he scored 6 goals in 8 and 4 assists. It was here he quickly became known as the new Haaland.
Atalanta: He got a move to Atalanta and has played 33 games and scored 9 goals and made 4 assists. Atalantas formation varies a lot, so Højlund has played both as a single striker and with a second striker next to him. The coach, Gasperini, about Højlund: “Technical and in many other aspects, I have never seen a striker at the age of 20 that strong. And he still has room for improvement in the air, in the box and the last pass.” His xG90 is 0.46. His 8 goals in the league comes from xG of 9.04, so there is room for improvement of his coolness.
National team: He made a hat trick in his debut and has now scvored 5 goals in 4 games.
Style of play: The first thing you notice, is how fast and strong he is. In a test at Atalanta, he ran 100 meter in just 10,8! And even said afterwards, that in better condition he could have been even faster. As this is my first post, I am not allowed to post a video, but search Twitter for his game against Lazio, where four Lazio-players just looking at while he is running past them.
He is quite often compared to Haaland, and his style of plays is very much the same. He is left footed and with good finishing skills. He has great technique and is good with his body against the goal. His biggest problem, and I guess it is pretty common at his age, is his consistency. He is also a good press player, although he can develop that area even more.
United? Well, I think it is too soon for him to be the certain number one forward. He is of course way better than Weghorst. He will always be a handful for any defenders due to his enormous speed, so I can definitely see him getting a role next season - and also in the case we buy Kane.
You can never be 100 % sure, but I am willing to bet half my house, that this kid is going to make it. Can he become a striker who scores +20 goals in the league? Yes, without a doubt. He has every mental and psychical skills for doing that, but only time will tell.
Since you used Alvarez as an example and I conveniently ignored it. Would you advise a 20 years old player to put himself in a situation where he will get less playing than he currently has even when he is 23 years, like Alvarez?
Garnacho is 18, he has played less than 600 minutes in the league and started 5 games. Like Garnacho, isn't something desirable for someone like Hojlund.
welcome to the party pal! appreciate the insight into your young danish striker. i hope we step up and bring him to the club as i think he has worldy potential
No its Hoylun.
Thanks for this detailed post, great to read how he's progressed at every level. From the bits I've seen of him his physique and speed is definitely what stands out most. I definitely see why people compare him to Haaland. Whether he'll ever develop the movement and goalscoring ability of Haaland is another story but he definitely looks like a potentially top talent. Similar to you I'd be happy with him as a squad player at the beginning who can then progress to be a starter over time.
He can job share with MG, we ain't getting Kane this summer.
If it's at a team like City where they have the ability to learn from other top players, from a top manager, win trophies and get used to a winning mentality, and get less minutes while playing with far superior players, yes, I would absolutely advise a 20 year old player to put themselves in that situation.
The path to earn your spot is there. It's up to the player to rise to challenge.
What a fantastic post, really interesting to hear his history.
Based on your information though, would be not be rather upset being bought as a back up to Kane? Seems like he's sure if his own ability and takes ownership of his development.
Great post. Welcome to RedCafe, Rasmus!
Football hardly ever works like though, you don't just get better by sitting on the bench watching world class players play and training with them, you get better by being able to make mistakes and learn from them.
If I'm 20, I'm likely not going to be the finished article and will need opportunities to improve, not high pressure, short time appearances. Harry Kane would have been sold by city if he was there at 20.
Thanks. Much appreciated. Somebody give this post a like.
It seldomly work like that, otherwise Iheanacho would be the best striker in the league and City would have a bunch of homegrown players in their first team but they don't.
It's fine if you think differently but Alvarez still has 1400 mins and 9 goals in the league for the best team in the world in his 1st season. I've no doubt he's going to develop into one of the best strikers in the world even if he's not a starter right now. Also, this point has to be emphasised because it is being ignored, just because he's not a starter right now does not mean he's just training with and watching world class players. He is still getting the chance to make mistakes and learn without the added pressure of being the main man at such a young age. The situation would be similar for Hojlund at United if we signed him and Kane. Not to mention Kane already drops deeper naturally so I could easily see games where they both play with Kane a little deeper and Hojlund ahead of him.
A striker who scored 9 goals in 33 games isn't someone you sign to challenge for a fecking title. I don't care about "imaginary" potential.
We ain't challenging for a title until baldy locks fecks off anyway.
- Status