Rasmus Hojlund (Out)

[dovaris]

David Ornstein talks on Højlund & Osimhen:

"I expect Osimhen to leave Napoli and Manchester United have been linked, but I'm NOT sure how realistic it is for Manchester United to let go of Rasmus Højlund.

“I think they would want to build the team with him. Højlund is one of the players who will generate funds, but he won't achieve a profit on his book value.

“Therefore, I think it's more likely that United will generate funds from other players." [Sky Podcast via @ue_shm]

 

[Dans]

David Ornstein talks on Højlund & Osimhen:

"I expect Osimhen to leave Napoli and Manchester United have been linked, but I'm NOT sure how realistic it is for Manchester United to let go of Rasmus Højlund.

“I think they would want to build the team with him. Højlund is one of the players who will generate funds, but he won't achieve a profit on his book value.

“Therefore, I think it's more likely that United will generate funds from other players." [Sky Podcast via @ue_shm]

And this in a nutshell is our problem and will remain so if we engage in sub-standard recruitment. We pay high fees which makes it impossible from a PSR perspective to create any wiggle room when we sell these players we bought for high fees for lower fees. We are hamstrung. We need some seriously good recruitment but will need to sell the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho in all likelihood to even be able to recruit anything other than players with potential.

I don't see enough potential in Rasmus Hojlund, but would be prepared to give him another year or two at most. What I miss from him is him putting it about enough as a target man (which is a role he may not have excelled at in the past but will have to in future. His inability to secure the ball and his lack of heading is a major worry for me. So if we get an offer of 40 -50m or the chance to swap him with Osimhen, I think I would do that deal.

 

[Fortitude]

His first season for his age was excellent. It was on par goals wise with Rooney in his first for us.

The second has been terrible but I do think it’s Been a terrible season for the whole club. Under ETH he was upfront 30 yards to goal with his back to goal feeding off scraps whilst Rashford and co wouldn’t cross the ball. ETH left and his confidence was already gone. Let’s see now he’s scored how he plays in the last 9. FYI I acknowledge he’s been terrible but I think he’s a back up next season who I hope proves us all wrong.

Comparing Højlund with far superior players, who started off technically miles ahead of him and showed continual, obvious growth is ruinous and basically opens the Dane up to ridicule rather than strengthening a 'goals scored' point.

Rooney, Shearer, Van Persie and the like were terrors before the goals came. A 16-year old Rooney was scaring and humiliating grown men and scoring GOTS contenders. You compare potential great ones to such talent if it's to have any grounding as a baseline.

The discussion is about potential and Højlund's is far from guaranteed or even obvious as opposed to others who were immediately lined up for a big move to a plethora of the biggest clubs in England during their ascension. Haaland would be the comparative not someone like Højlund.

Whatever he turns out to be, his path isn't aligned with some of the most precocious talents the PL era has seen.

 

[acnumber9]

It’s mad how quick we are to judge players.

I’m not suggesting he might hit the same ceiling but Salah at 22 was still a Chelsea player. KDB had just signed for Wolfsburg

FF 10 years and those two both still feel like they have been world class for such a long period of time.

It’s been nearly two years. He’s played over 80 games for United.

Your line of thinking would have Nicolas Pepe still at Arsenal.

 

[romufc]

And this in a nutshell is our problem and will remain so if we engage in sub-standard recruitment. We pay high fees which makes it impossible from a PSR perspective to create any wiggle room when we sell these players we bought for high fees for lower fees. We are hamstrung. We need some seriously good recruitment but will need to sell the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho in all likelihood to even be able to recruit anything other than players with potential.

This is the slight issue I have with some fans. They seem to think that what we did under the Glazers is the same the new regime is doing. It was a problem, have a look at the feed paid last summer and january for players and wages... Its not the same.

This theory that we need to sell Mainoo or Garnacho again is false. What people are mistaking is that was the plan in January because there was no takers for other players and Garnacho was attracting interest.

Most clubs now, unless its Real Madrid but potential, its not something new.

We can sell Sancho, Rashford and be fine with PSR this summer, considering we will save on Eriksen and Lindelof wages for one. I am sure we will sell other players too.

 

[Dans]

This is the slight issue I have with some fans. They seem to think that what we did under the Glazers is the same the new regime is doing. It was a problem, have a look at the feed paid last summer and january for players and wages... Its not the same.

This theory that we need to sell Mainoo or Garnacho again is false. What people are mistaking is that was the plan in January because there was no takers for other players and Garnacho was attracting interest.

Most clubs now, unless its Real Madrid but potential, its not something new.

We can sell Sancho, Rashford and be fine with PSR this summer, considering we will save on Eriksen and Lindelof wages for one. I am sure we will sell other players too.

I genuinely don't understand what you are saying here. We find ourselves in a position which regardless of the "regime" we are under (and make no mistake, this is still the Glazer's club - Ratcliffe has just paid a lot of money to be the corporate face of United and take the heat of the Glazer's who are unpopular as feck (so clever move to sell a bit of United to JR and make a huge profit for themselves and not for the club)) and he is now having to deal with years of questionable recruitment especially where fees paid are concerned. That is exactly an issue because PSR is so affected. It's fairly well documented that to have the kind of spending power that Chelsea and City are showing (and here I mean from today onwards in our case) we need to make money - that is easiest done by selling players who cost "nothing" having come through our youth system, not buy selling the likes of Hojlund and Antony at a loss.

I should add that Madrid especially do pay big bucks for potential - see Endrick as an example. Also Tchouameni and Camavinga bought at young ages didn't come cheap. The difference was the chances of both proving worth the outlay was much bigger than the case was for Hojlund or Antony (both of who cost more - incredible!).

 

[romufc]

I genuinely don't understand what you are saying here. We find ourselves in a position which regardless of the "regime" we are under (and make no mistake, this is still the Glazer's club - Ratcliffe has just paid a lot of money to be the corporate face of United and take the heat of the Glazer's who are unpopular as feck (so clever move to sell a bit of United to JR and make a huge profit for themselves and not for the club)) and he is now having to deal with years of questionable recruitment especially where fees paid are concerned. That is exactly an issue because PSR is so affected. It's fairly well documented that to have the kind of spending power that Chelsea and City are showing (and here I mean from today onwards in our case) we need to make money - that is easiest done by selling players who cost "nothing" having come through our youth system, not buy selling the likes of Hojlund and Antony at a loss.

I should add that Madrid especially do pay big bucks for potential - see Endrick as an example. Also Tchouameni and Camavinga bought at young ages didn't come cheap. The difference was the chances of both proving worth the outlay was much bigger than the case was for Hojlund or Antony (both of who cost more - incredible!).

I am saying that we operate differently under the new structure than we did under Arnold and Woodward. No, its not just a corporate face, INEOS have taken footballing control. I mean there is so much evidence that JR is not just the face of United, we have made so many changes that suggest he is more than that.

Yes, they are having to deal with past mistakes, no one is disputing that though, but what you said is “ problem and will remain so if we engage in sub-standard recruitment”. There is clear evidence in the last 2 windows that we are not engaging in such recruitment anymore.



It is fairly well documented, but we do not HAVE to sell Mainoo and Garnacho because Rashford is an youth that gets you 100% profit as well.



I have never said they don’t buy potential.. I had a typo in the last message saying but should have said buy. You are the one saying we need to buy players other than potential “even be able to recruit anything other than players with potential.” Almost every club buys potential these days, that is the model we are going down as well.



I know you want Oshimen but there is nothing that suggests he will improve us, his wage demands are so high as well, it doesn’t really help. If you want to sell Hojlund and buy 1 striker and go a season with just 1 striker, putting pressure on a new signing again, never learn.

 

[Dion]

Except in Hojlund's case he isn't getting any better, rather he's going backwards.

That's extremely common in young players. Look at Greenwood's second season at United or Martial's or loads of other young players.

They're not actually going backwards, they're adapting to increased levels of scrutiny from opposition (and in Hojlund's case being in a really shit team and a change in manager).

 

[Dans]

That's extremely common in young players. Look at Greenwood's second season at United or Martial's or loads of other young players.

They're not actually going backwards, they're adapting to increased levels of scrutiny from opposition (and in Hojlund's case being in a really shit team and a change in manager).

Martial didn't stop going backwards though.

 

[Dans]

I am saying that we operate differently under the new structure than we did under Arnold and Woodward. No, its not just a corporate face, INEOS have taken footballing control. I mean there is so much evidence that JR is not just the face of United, we have made so many changes that suggest he is more than that.

Yes, they are having to deal with past mistakes, no one is disputing that though, but what you said is “ problem and will remain so if we engage in sub-standard recruitment”. There is clear evidence in the last 2 windows that we are not engaging in such recruitment anymore.



It is fairly well documented, but we do not HAVE to sell Mainoo and Garnacho because Rashford is an youth that gets you 100% profit as well.



I have never said they don’t buy potential.. I had a typo in the last message saying but should have said buy. You are the one saying we need to buy players other than potential “even be able to recruit anything other than players with potential.” Almost every club buys potential these days, that is the model we are going down as well.



I know you want Oshimen but there is nothing that suggests he will improve us, his wage demands are so high as well, it doesn’t really help. If you want to sell Hojlund and buy 1 striker and go a season with just 1 striker, putting pressure on a new signing again, never learn.

My point about buying players "other than those with potential" is that to get ready made players, for want of a better phrase, we need to shell out a lot more money. Osimhen is not my ideal candidate by any stretch, although he's probably more proven and a more realistic option for us than most strikers in that category.

 

[MadDogg]

Martial didn't stop going backwards though.

He obviously did though. His second season was mostly poor but his third and fourth seasons were good when Mourinho would actually play him (every time he got a consistent run of games he was our best attacker). Then he was our best player in his fifth. It was only when injuries destroyed him in his 6th season where it all went downhill fast.

 

[romufc]

My point about buying players "other than those with potential" is that to get ready made players, for want of a better phrase, we need to shell out a lot more money. Osimhen is not my ideal candidate by any stretch, although he's probably more proven and a more realistic option for us than most strikers in that category.

My point is... clubs in transition don't go buy ready made players.. so we don't need to shell out alot of money.

He is proven in Italy... It doesn't mean much, considering that he is playing in Turkey right now.

So if a expensive proven player with high wages is just as big of a risk as potential, what difference does it make?

 

[Dion]

Martial didn't stop going backwards though.

I mean that's just not true is it? He was probably our best attacker in 17-18 until we signed Sanchez and he had his two best seasons under OGS.

 

[Dans]

I mean that's just not true is it? He was probably our best attacker in 17-18 until we signed Sanchez and he had his two best seasons under OGS.

One good season, then back to being lazy and uninterested, probably after receiving a new contract. Over his United timeline, he started off with promise, has one perhaps two decent seasons and then did pretty much nothing. General trajectory was backwards.

 

[Dion]

One good season, then back to being lazy and uninterested, probably after receiving a new contract. Over his United timeline, he started off with promise, has one perhaps two decent seasons and then did pretty much nothing. General trajectory was backwards.

It wasn't one good season though, you're simply incorrect here. He was clearly a better and more complete player when Solskjaer was manager than when LvG was.

One good season is an absolutely insane thing to say.

 

[Dans]

It wasn't one good season though, you're simply incorrect here. He was clearly a better and more complete player when Solskjaer was manager than when LvG was.

One good season is an absolutely insane thing to say.

Insane. What a word.

Martial was a massive disappointment. Not much more to say from my point of view. You liked him, I didn't.

Here's his PL record:

15/16 31 games 11 goals
16/17 25 / 4
17/18 30 / 9
18/19 27 / 10
19/20 32 / 17 (one good season)
20/21 22 / 4
21/22 8 / 1
22/23 21 / 6
23/24 13 / 1

I remember Martial not for scoring goals that won us games, but scoring lots of "fillers", in games already won. He was mostly lazy and uninterested and sums up United of late for me. He and Rashford.

 

[Ali Dia]

On what basis from what you’ve seen so far can either of these be true?
I don’t wanna insult anyone on here. Yourself included, but this kind of prediction is just bizarre. Why part of our fanbase just thinks that anyone under 24 can become world class no matter how bad they are, I’ll never know.
He’s shown absolutely nothing and in reality, couldn’t have been any worse even if he tried.



“Swappin him with an older player who is on huge wages is making the same mistakes of old” ….

This is such a lazy and factually incorrect point it’s boring. The 3 old strikers on huge wages post Ferguson were all actually a success individually, despite the mess that was going on around them.
Cavani, Ronaldo and Zlatan cost a total of just £12mil, so that naturally means, by the nature of their cheap arrival, larger wages.
Combining all 3 of their debut seasons… 123 appearances, 71 goals.
That works out at a season average of, 41 apps and 24 goals.
Rasmus has 8 in 39 this season…

I’d rather go into next season with a proven goal scorer capable of getting 20-25 goals than someone who’s only still here “because he’s young”.

27 goals for Ronaldo while the team that was once very promising stalled and the dressing totally room broke down? Paying him 500k a week for the pleasure. It was a shit transfer. He would have been a decent stopgap for city If they needed to wait another year for Haaland but he was a disaster for us.
Zlatan was a dude, huge wages, one season wonder though.
Cavani I loved the simplicty and aggression to his game but once again a one season wonder.

Ronaldo and Zlatan both saw themselves as bigger than the club and Cavani more or less retired from club football during this final season here.

Also at this point I'll add in Alexis Sanchez, Falcao? Ageing Rooney who looked done for years despite his wages and billing.

So was spending the money that way really wise or just a short term fix due to a lack of vision and patience?

Don't get me wrong Im all for bringing in a striker in his prime (mid to late 20s) to share the burden but I am wary of thinking any one player can fix this on his own whatever kind of money they are on. We need to find special players who will play for each other. One short term mega transfer doesn't fix things the way they might have under Fergie with RVP

 

[G97]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mané.408248/

Literally a poll showing how not positive the fans were about Mane.

Blimey. I guess he had a good last season at Southampton then and that’s what I’m referring to?
As those dates are 2015 not 2016, when he left.

 

[Dion]

Insane. What a word.

Martial was a massive disappointment. Not much more to say from my point of view. You liked him, I didn't.

Here's his PL record:

15/16 31 games 11 goals - 188 min/g+a
16/17 25 / 4 - 156 min/g+a
17/18 30 / 9 - 113 min/g+a
18/19 27 / 10- 135 min/g+a
19/20 32 / 17 (one good season) - 114 min/g+a


I remember Martial not for scoring goals that won us games, but scoring lots of "fillers", in games already won. He was mostly lazy and uninterested and sums up United of late for me. He and Rashford.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see the obvious improvement in Martial over the first 5 years at the club, where he went from a wide player to someone who was capable of leading the line consistently then I'm afraid that is insane. He had injury issues which limited his minutes, but his development was still obvious.

It's got nothing to do with liking a player or disliking a player. Martial was a disappointment because just as he hit his peak he fell to bits physically, not because he never improved after his first season.

 

[B20]

Blimey. I guess he had a good last season at Southampton then and that’s what I’m referring to?
As those dates are 2015 not 2016, when he left.

For that you have

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sadio-mane-lfc-player.410383/page-24

still fairly lukewarm.

 

[G97]

27 goals for Ronaldo while the team that was once very promising stalled and the dressing totally room broke down? Paying him 500k a week for the pleasure. It was a shit transfer. He would have been a decent stopgap for city If they needed to wait another year for Haaland but he was a disaster for us.
Zlatan was a dude, huge wages, one season wonder though.
Cavani I loved the simplicty and aggression to his game but once again a one season wonder.

Ronaldo and Zlatan both saw themselves as bigger than the club and Cavani more or less retired from club football during this final season here.

Also at this point I'll add in Alexis Sanchez, Falcao? Ageing Rooney who looked done for years despite his wages and billing.

So was spending the money that way really wise or just a short term fix due to a lack of vision and patience?

Don't get me wrong Im all for bringing in a striker in his prime (mid to late 20s) to share the burden but I am wary of thinking any one player can fix this on his own whatever kind of money they are on. We need to find special players who will play for each other. One short term mega transfer doesn't fix things the way they might have under Fergie with RVP

Both in their 20’s. Not “old” like you specified.

Ronaldo transfer was poor in a lot of aspects yes, but he was brought in to score goals and that he did. He Basically cost the club £35mil for his fee and wages… too much I agree. But that’s half of Hojlund’s fee (not even taking into account his wages too) and Ronnie scored more in his season with us then Hojlund has in 2 for Double the price.
As poor as anyone wants to spin this Ronaldo Deal, he was a far better arrival than Hojlund has been.

I agree with your general point. But the Issue is, we have so many other positions that need strengthening that an older stopgap proven striker wouldn’t be a disaster just for next season.
If we signed a top keeper, centre half, wing back and midfielder then just signed this kind of striker to score 25 goals next season I’d think that was a good window.
Then you may look in 2026 at bringing in two hungry strikers of a similar standing who can battle it out.
Either way, Hojlund starting another season upfront for us would be a felony.

 

[G97]

I'm sorry, but if you can't see the obvious improvement in Martial over the first 5 years at the club, where he went from a wide player to someone who was capable of leading the line consistently then I'm afraid that is insane. He had injury issues which limited his minutes, but his development was still obvious.

It's got nothing to do with liking a player or disliking a player. Martial was a disappointment because just as he hit his peak he fell to bits physically, not because he never improved after his first season.

It’s ‘insane’ to actually think Martial was improving each season in his first 5 years…
The guys best season performance wise was his debut season (by far). His best season stats wise was his 5th.
The 3 seasons inbetween he was severely underwhelming and his attitude and work rate left a lot to be desired. Both Jose and Ole wanted rid of him quite quickly and the feeling amongst most fans was that he was a hugely unpopular player with them.

Martial was tipped for greatness at times during his first season. He ended up being the signing I think most reflects the post Ferguson era… Young player who had ability, but major attitude and mentality issues, lazy and rarely ever delivered and allowed to stay on way too long whilst collecting a massive wage.

 

[Dion]

It’s ‘insane’ to actually think Martial was improving each season in his first 5 years…
The guys best season performance wise was his debut season (by far). His best season stats wise was his 5th.
The 3 seasons inbetween he was severely underwhelming and his attitude and work rate left a lot to be desired. Both Jose and Ole wanted rid of him quite quickly and the feeling amongst most fans was that he was a hugely unpopular player with them.

Nobody said he improved every season. In fact the entire point was to highlight he had a difficult second season and then improved from there.

It's not even a remotely sensible proposition to look at how he played in his first season vs how he played in Mourinho's second season and say he hadn't improved as a player. He was better in almost every respect. He had 13 G/A in 22 games that season before Sanchez signed, almost matching his breakout season in half the minutes.

I'll be totally honest, I think you're conflating availability with actual performance levels. Which is fine if you're just looking at whether a player had a great season or not, but it's totally pointless when trying to assess whether a player has actually improved as a player or not, which is the discussion you jumped in to.

Martial was tipped for greatness at times during his first season. He ended up being the signing I think most reflects the post Ferguson era… Young player who had ability, but major attitude and mentality issues, lazy and rarely ever delivered and allowed to stay on way too long whilst collecting a massive wage.

I don't even disagree with some of this assessment, but it's pretty clear this happened after the covid season. Long past the point where it was pretty obvious he was a far more complete player than in his first season.

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[Todd]

I know what you are saying but not always.
Scumpool signed Salah, Mane and Firmino whilst on a road to nowhere. They joined them for modest fees and with modest reputations.
These are the sorts of signings we should be looking to make.

I remember being linked with Mane when he was at Southampton and all our fans being positive about the thought of him joining. Then Liverpool signed him and we signed fecking Mkhitaryan 4 days later.

I think everyone would agree that the ideal situation is signing a relative unknown for a small fee who then turns into a superstar in a few seasons, but we don't exactly seem to have that sort of luck.

 

[RuudTom83]

I wouldn’t even table the idea of getting rid this summer. BUT it should be a reminder to Rasmus his time is ticking.

Rashford fell of a cliff and fingers crossed he will be sold in the summer. Which gives Holjund all he needs to know exactly what is required.

1 more season like the current one and I think offers would need to be considered. But not yet.

 

[Dans]

I wouldn’t even table the idea of getting rid this summer. BUT it should be a reminder to Rasmus his time is ticking.

Rashford fell of a cliff and fingers crossed he will be sold in the summer. Which gives Holjund all he needs to know exactly what is required.

1 more season like the current one and I think offers would need to be considered. But not yet.

1 more season like this one and there'll be no offers.

 

[wolvored]

He’s been here for the best part of two seasons.

That’s plenty of time to judge a players ability and potential.

And sadly, he’s lacking in both.

Yes agree. 2 seasons of regular playing should be enough time to see if a player past 22 is going to be a world beater. He could do an Antony and be a lot better in a different league, but cant see it happening here. By now he should be more aware of the runs to make and anticipation, yet the good goal against Leicester apart, he hasnt shown this.

 

[RuudTom83]

1 more season like this one and there'll be no offers.

If Rasmus Hojlund couldn’t get a move next summer (a full international with 3 years playing for United) then 90% of the football leagues might as well forget moving and all become 1 club men.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Personally I think way to many people are expecting way too much of hojlund -

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

 

[UnitedSofa]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

Cue:

We should never have let him leave! Club is inept!

Posts

 

[Lash]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

Until we're a better team creating more chances for him, I think it's extremely silly to write him him off. We seem to be heading in that direction though, so we should have an idea by the end of the season if he's up to it or not.

 

[tidraKS]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

He doesn't score bucket loads of goals for Denmark. He barely finishes a game with them too.

 

[Cassidy]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

Yes and Sancho will go to being a top player and Rashford will be one of the best attacking players in the PL. Dan James will be a top PL winger

 

[mitchmouse]

I suspect this has some basis but personally I see the potential in Rasmus and believe we should find a way to keep him. Ideally, as a backup to a more experienced striker. Then he can take over in 3-4 years.

Agreed

 

[Pughnichi]

It’s been nearly two years. He’s played over 80 games for United.

Your line of thinking would have Nicolas Pepe still at Arsenal.

I’m not convinced he’s gonna become elite either. There was some credit in the bank though after a decent first season

Obviously this season he’s fallen off a cliff but who knows…a strong finish to the season and a solid start nxt and in the space of 6/7 months things could be looking much better for him

Ifs, buts and maybes. Time will tell.

A second season like this one though and he should rightly be moved on

 

[Offside]

I guarantee that once he's moved on, he'll suddenly score bucket loads of goals and become a top striker at a team where he gets good service, can get some confidence and isn't purposely ignored by team mates.

That's irrelevant. He scored 16 goals last season. The fact is he won't have cost whoever buys him £80m and he won't have the pressure and expectation of playing for United. So often the narrative here is that players are really good elsewhere but shit at United, but they've actually just found their level. That's almost been our issue, we're expecting players to be as good as the treble, double, 3peating players we used to have.

 

[DannyCAFC]

I still think he should be given a chance to develop - all the tools are there IMO, and they don't have much to gain from selling him now when his value's low and will be left short of options up top.

Sign a more experienced striker to be first choice and he should still get 15-20 games across all competitions, see if he can get back to the promise he showed in year one and kick on from there and be a long-term solution.

 

[Idxomer]

Until we're a better team creating more chances for him, I think it's extremely silly to write him him off. We seem to be heading in that direction though, so we should have an idea by the end of the season if he's up to it or not.

He'll always be a problem because his technical ability is below par and doesn't have great instincts in the penalty area. The best we could hope for is a lesser version of Lukaku with a better work rate. Is that what United fans want?