https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/69...chester-united-inside-story/?source=twitteruk
Suggesting we play Mbeumo as wingback and also putting pressure on Wilcox to get Amorim to switch to a back four. Is this the best in class?
In a healthy organisation the DOF and the coach have an understanding and a symbiosis. It's not supposed to be warfare between the two roles.To be involved is one thing, meddling is something completely different. Ok, tell me this; do you think that Tuchel, Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LVG.... would allow football "advices" from owner or DoF? Especially rookie DoF like Wilcox.
To be involved is one thing, meddling is something completely different. Ok, tell me this; do you think that Tuchel, Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LVG.... would allow football "advices" from owner or DoF? Especially rookie DoF like Wilcox.
This is simply not his job. You won't find proper managers when they get the impression the club's owner is interfering with their decisions. Also playing our biggest goal threat this season in that position is hardly a brilliant idea.
To be involved is one thing, meddling is something completely different. Ok, tell me this; do you think that Tuchel, Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LVG.... would allow football "advices" from owner or DoF? Especially rookie DoF like Wilcox.
Not true. I didn’t see reports of John Henry giving footballing advice to Klopp or Slot. Didn’t see Kronke telling Arteta to change when he was struggling. Sheikh Mansour isn’t there telling Pep what to do.It’s a complete non story. You think Berlusconi or Perez never leaned on their managers and DOFs and offering their tactical genius?
People need to understand the Glazers modus operandi of not interfering with sporting decisions is very much the exception, not the norms, and it worked for Fergie who himself was very much a unicorn. Maybe we wouldn’t have been in the mess we were in if we have owners who are more interested in the sport.
Which would end exactly like this shit ended.I think when things are not going well, you would see it happen.
You don't know the context of the discussion or when it was made.
Ratcliffe could have easily have just asked about if Mbeumo could have been versatile enough to play RWB at the time of approving the signing. A valid question given Amoirm was using another winger as a wing back.
This is the issue with these articles with snippets of information with no context, often gathered by speaking to second, third or fourth hand sources. It's like Chinese whispers..
People need to understand the Glazers modus operandi of not interfering with sporting decisions is very much the exception, not the norms,
No normal human being invested in this club wouldn’t react to that wolves result. Most of us were furious. Imagine being the owner who pumped in hundreds of millions of your own money and seeing that rubbish at OT.
To be involved is one thing, meddling is something completely different. Ok, tell me this; do you think that Tuchel, Fergie, Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Jose, LVG.... would allow football "advices" from owner or DoF? Especially rookie DoF like Wilcox.
It's their own fault. They should have sacked him long before that. But trying to convince a professional football manager of player positioning is just dumb
We can only go by what is reported though and it wasn't reported that he merely asked about Mbeumo's capabilities but rather proposed this. And that's simply not his job end of. We will have a hard time attracting any proper managers if he acts like that.
That’s nothing to do with what’s quoted. Does Viana go into Peps office and tell him how to play or what formation he should be using? How do you think Peps going to react?Most of the names you mentioned there have worked under DOFs.
Tuchel was working with Petr Cech at Chelsea, iirc.
Peps is working with Viana and previously Begiristain.
Klopp with Edwards.
Even the top managers are not getting everything they want. We all know that Klopp wanted Julian Brandt over Salah.
People need to realize we are not in Fergie era any more where a manager has complete autonomy of all footballing decisions within the club. Those days are long gone.
Managers / coaches work for their DOF, not the other way round.
This happens in every company. Your boss tells you, we should "get AI to do that". Sure boss, will look right into it, really good suggestion.
Exactly. People talking about Ratcliffe wanting four at the back like it's an alien concept that has not been brought up once in the last 14 months.
Not true. Competent owners hire best people and allow them to do their job for which they are paid. Meeting with warning "you must do better" is fine. Asking questions people bellow you what and how they will do something is fine. Asking for explanation why they did this or that is also fine.It’s a complete non story. You think Berlusconi or Perez never leaned on their managers and DOFs and offering their tactical genius?
People need to understand the Glazers modus operandi of not interfering with sporting decisions is very much the exception, not the norms, and it worked for Fergie who himself was very much a unicorn. Maybe we wouldn’t have been in the mess we were in if we have owners who are more interested in the sport.
There’s no reports because they are successful, the ugly story only comes out when a team is in turmoil and it doesn’t even take a crisis for Utd to be front page. If you think John Henry never had a quiet chat with Klopp when Liverpool were struggling for top 4 after winning the title, or Josh Kroenke didn’t need to be assured by Edu and Arteta when Arsenal was 15th in the table, that is your wont.Not true. I didn’t see reports of John Henry giving footballing advice to Klopp or Slot. Didn’t see Kronke telling Arteta to change when he was struggling. Sheikh Mansour isn’t there telling Pep what to do.
You hire the best in class, and then you let them do their job. If you don’t feel they are up to it then you sack them. There’s no need for Ratcliffe to micro-manage everything, when he’s hired footballing people to make footballing decisions.
The main issue with the Glazers was that they just left Woodward in charge rather than hiring a DOF. Nobody was asking them to get involved in the footballing side of things, but were wanting them to hire people with football knowledge at the upper levels of the club.
That’s nothing to do with what’s quoted. Does Viana go into Peps office and tell him how to play or what formation he should be using? How do you think Peps going to react?
If you are not happy with the coaches tactic then the natural thing would be to sack him especially considering everyone knew Amorim lived by one formation.
Erm because he wasn’t any good at winning football matches.If Pep was playing a system that clearly didn't suit the players at his disposal and results were bad because of it, then it would be in Viana's remit to raise this. Especially if Pep was asking for more players to make his system work.
Why? Why would you just sack him. Amorim did/does have a lot of good qualities and has brought some good things to the club. Also the consider the cost of this sacking and the upheaval it may cause.
The natural thing would be try and work with Amorim to build a bridge where you get get the most of what you have today, while working toward Amorims vision in the future.
The manager / DOF is meant to be a partnership. By all accounts Amorim and Wilcox were very close throughout and we know that Amorim was coming around to adapting his system and was training the team to play four at the back weeks before that Friday meeting, where it all blew up.
Exactly. That is also part of their job, it's not like a good idea can't come from Ratcliffe, but they should easily be able to tell what is nonsense and have it go no further than a small discussion.And the next thing you know, AI has taken your job!
But you are right. Owners/bosses are always going to say somthing. It is very likely that Wilcox filters most/all of that stuff out.
Saying the manager should change his system cos he listens to Gary Neville is a sign of bad leadership. As a leader he should trust the people he employed to do the job, if they don't then get rid. Don't try and do a job you are not qualified for yourself
Erm because he wasn’t any good at winning football matches.
There's nothing in the article to say he ever tried to get Amorim to change anything directly though? I get you want to substantiate a viewpoint, but there's really nothing in the quote about Ratcliffe. The way it's written it also seems it was not even to Amorim, but to Wilcox who manages that communication channel.This is simply not his job. You won't find proper managers when they get the impression the club's owner is interfering with their decisions. Also playing our biggest goal threat this season in that position is hardly a brilliant idea.
But with Ratcliffe having opinions on the team, things became more delicate. Handling Ratcliffe’s input is one of Wilcox’s major tasks. Ratcliffe leans on him for his football knowledge but also expresses thoughts of his own. During the 4-1 win against Wolverhampton Wanderers, Ratcliffe was visibly angry at the sloppy manner in which United conceded an equaliser before half-time. Earlier in the season, Ratcliffe also proposed playing Bryan Mbeumo at wing-back.
You can read this via archive - just seems a bit sad really. He fought with everyone, his coaches seem useless and it just reads a man slowly succumbing to external pressure and imploding. Hard to feel sorry for someone who got £10m pay off and £6.5m a year for getting a team to finish 15th mind you.
It also doesn't seem like anyone interfered at all - it points out some had offered him advice/their opinion but he clearly had final say and always would do on all selection issues and tactics. I honestly think it's no deeper than him ego tripping over the Wolves gamble backfiring and, likely, getting a grilling from Ineos on dropping points to such a poor team. His reaction is to demand multiple signings and the club obviously just says that's not how they want to/can operate.
Can't believe people think Jim Ratcliffe has decided (and admitted to Ruben Amorim) that he wants us to play 4 at the back because he heard Gary Neville say it in a podcast.Gary Neville has nothing to do with this.
Amorim put Neville into his rant because he is paranoid and thin skinned. He thinks "the media" are attacking him when they are just reporting and providing commentary on some of the shit we have have all seen over the past 14 months. As well as passing comment of some of Amorims bizarre decisions and behaviors.
There is nothing Neville has said that hasn't been said 1,000 or more times by people on The Caf or at the games.
Do you for Amorim for that matter, think pundits are not going to say anything when Amorim is saying "we are the worst United team of all time" or post Grimsby when he was implying he was going to quit.
If anything, Neville has been very positive about United and Amoirm of late, especially post the Bournemouth and Newcastle games.
Football owner is sentient and forms opinions. Will United be able to ever hire again?Yeah I heard Bearded Genius complain about this on one of the far too numerable United podcasts where four blokes take it in turn to have almost identical opinions for an hour and I was expecting A LOT more than “football owner gives opinions on football but ultimately leaves decision to manager” but I’m sure the headline will rile some people up suitably
While I have some sympathy for Amorim being hired as a dogmatic system guy in the first place, after a full year of the results not being good enough it is absolutely fair for his higher ups to have put questions to him about it. And by all accounts no one was asking him to abandon it as a goal, just augment it occasionally until we have the players. He seemed way too volatile and emotional for the job in the long run regardless of anything else.
So he sacks Ashworth, ditches Wilcox, and hires A.N. Other? Still, three's a charm.Makes sense, provided we only hire a new permanent manager this summer.
