Ratcliffe involved in football decisions? | Not really; read the article

[gaffs]

But at no point is there a question asked to Ratcliffe for him to respond "no more money. go make that evolution that you promised before tapping me up for more players". Amorim asks Wilcox, the DOF.

As per the Athletic....
"Instead of using the money earmarked for Semenyo on another January transfer, however, Amorim was told that major reinforcements would have to wait until summer. "

The article doesn't say when he was told the above, but safe to assume it was in that Friday freakout meeting, given he talked about it in the pre game Leeds presser...
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-united-premier-league-transfer-window

Jamie Jackson:" “You said you’re starting to understand that to play 3-4-3, you [need] a lot of top players and that’s not possible. Can I ask why you never realised that when you first came into the club?” was the question put to Amorim in his press conference for United’s visit to Leeds on Sunday.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...dow-2026-what-every-premier-league-club-needs
Amorim: “I don’t want to talk about that. I just focus on the Leeds game.”

Jackson: “That’s interesting. It’s not like you not to talk. Do you regret saying it, maybe?”

Amorim: “No, no, no. But I don’t want to talk about it.”

Jackson: “I’m going to try one more time – it seems mystifying why you would say a year in, that you only just realised you wouldn’t be able to get [enough] top players. Has something changed with regard to what you were told, or did Jason Wilcox [the director of football] talk to you?

Amorim: “I don’t want to talk about that … You are very smart, so …”

 

[gaffs]

I don't think the things mentioned in the article are particularly bad or unusual.

A manager's primary responsibility is to win football matches. They can have their own methods that they think are best, but implementing those methods is not their primary responsibility. The methods are just a means to the end of winning football matches. If they are failing at achieving at their objectives, it is perfectly reasonable for their higher-ups to prod them about taking a different approach.

Let's say I hire a guy to write me a computer program. The guy says he likes using programming language X. They start using X do write the program, and it is taking forever because implementing A/B/C features is a massive challenge using language X. The normal thing to do is to tell them that they need to consider using a different programming language. The abnormal thing to do would be to fire them just so that they can preserve some mystical "right to work freely".

You need to stop interfering with computer programmers, stay in your lane and keep paying money as not to upset your programmer and his principles.

 

[The Hilton]

As per the Athletic....
"Instead of using the money earmarked for Semenyo on another January transfer, however, Amorim was told that major reinforcements would have to wait until summer. "

The article doesn't say when he was told the above, but safe to assume it was in that Friday freakout meeting, given he talked about it in the pre game Leeds presser...
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-united-premier-league-transfer-window

Now who's going off on random tangents. Amorim asks Wilcox, his boss, who said no. Nothing to do with Ratcliffe.

 

[gaffs]

Now who's going off on random tangents. Amorim asks Wilcox, his boss, who said no. Nothing to do with Ratcliffe.

And why did Wilcox say no to more signings?

You not think he asked SJR what was available?

 

[The Hilton]

Let's say I hire a guy to write me a computer program. The guy says he likes using programming language X. They start using X do write the program, and it is taking forever because implementing A/B/C features is a massive challenge using language X. The normal thing to do is to tell them that they need to consider using a different programming language. The abnormal thing to do would be to fire them just so that they can preserve some mystical "right to work freely".

As someone who works in this field, that isn't how it works. If a developer is behind schedule on a project, the CEO who doesn't know the first thing about programming isn't going to start making technical suggestions, they'll leave that to the engineering manager, letting said manager know that there's an expectation of getting back on track.

These hierarchies exist in companies for a reason, Ratcliffe doesn't get involved in telling INEOS engineers how to drill for oil, he should know better here too.

 

[The Hilton]

And why did Wilcox say no to more signings?

You not think he asked SJR what was available?

Wilcox said no because he has a recruitment plan for the next few years, in concert with his director of recruitment Vivell. This is his department, he doesn't need to ask for permission for every decision he makes, otherwise his existence is pointless.

 

[gaffs]

Wilcox said no because he has a recruitment plan for the next few years, in concert with his director of recruitment Vivell. This is his department, he doesn't need to ask for permission for every decision he makes, otherwise his existence is pointless.

You’ll have to find me where that was published in any article?

 

[The Hilton]

You’ll have to find me where that was published in any article?

The articles you posted recently details conversations between Amorim and Wilcox. It's right there in your second quote.

 

[gaffs]

The articles you posted recently details conversations between Amorim and Wilcox. It's right there in your second quote.

Show me where is states why Wilcox said no, referring to “a recruitment plan for the next few years”.

 

[The Hilton]

Show me where is states why Wilcox said no, referring to “a recruitment plan for the next few years”.

Jackson asks Amorim if Wilcox told him no, and Amorim, while not saying directly, clearly alludes to that. There's no mention of Amorim asking Ratcliffe for money at all. As you're demanding direct quotes for my claim, it's only fair you provide some for yours. Firstly can you show me which article states that Amorim asked Ratcliffe directly for more of Ratcliffe's money, as you've stated here:

he needs more of SJR's money to make his system work.

costing SJR more money to make work.

And then show me the article where Ratcliffe's involvement is only a direct response to that, as you've suggested here:

then its more than justified for his paymaster to start asking "why are we not seeing the change you said you would deliver"

than its fair for SJR to say, " no more money. go make that evolution that you promised before tapping me up for more players:"

I'm expecting both of those direct quotes too, otherwise they're hypotheticals. And given how you feel about hypotheticals:

Stay on topic and away from the nonsensical hypotheticals.

ridiculous hypotheticals

Using them yourself would make you quite the hypocrite.

Your justification of Ratcliffe getting involved with the coach is tied to the notion that Amorim asked him for money directly and Ratcliffe responding. Time to bring some receipts.

 

[gaffs]

Jackson asks Amorim if Wilcox told him no, and Amorim, while not saying directly, clearly alludes to that.

Press conference convo was ...

Jackson - Has something changed with regard to what you were told, or did Jason Wilcox [the director of football] talk to you?

Amorim - I don’t want to talk about that … You are very smart, so …

Which does not allude to the reason why he was given a no from Wilcox. And it does not back up you claim that it was because of any "recruitment plan for the next few years", as you stated here....

Wilcox said no because he has a recruitment plan for the next few years,

Good night. As ever, conversations go nowhere with you. And it would seem that half The Caf feel the same way......

Look at the strawman.

Someome is a liar who can’t debate with logic and facts.

Wait for his next party trick - calling you disingenuous and then saying he doesn’t want to talk about it anymore.

@The Hilton systematically taken apart over his absolute garbage.
Always seems like a poster pulling shit out of his arse to be fair.

This Hilton bloke is something else.

Congratulations on building a stellar reputation!

 

[The Hilton]

Press conference convo was ...

Jackson - Has something changed with regard to what you were told, or did Jason Wilcox [the director of football] talk to you?

Amorim - I don’t want to talk about that … You are very smart, so …

Which does not allude to the reason why he was given a no from Wilcox. And it does not back up you claim that it was because of any "recruitment plan for the next few years", as you stated here....



Good night. As ever, conversations go nowhere with you. And it would seem that half The Caf feel the same way......









Congratulations on building a stellar reputation!

You get asked to source your claims, the exact same thing you asked of me, that Amorim asked Ratcliffe for money, which is what your entire defence was based on, and you launch into the mother of all ad hominem attacks instead. That's quite an emphatic admission of defeat.

I don't think I've ever seen a deflection of that magnitude on Redcafe, that's genuinely cheered me up after a rubbish result, thanks.

 

[gaffs]

You get asked to source your claims, the exact same thing you asked of me, that Amorim asked Ratcliffe for money, which is what your entire defence was based on, and you launch into the mother of all ad hominem attacks instead. That's quite an emphatic admission of defeat.

I don't think I've ever seen a deflection of that magnitude on Redcafe, that's genuinely cheered me up after a rubbish result, thanks.

I did look for quotes, but all I could find were ones related to your disingenuous behavior from other Caf members.

 

[TheReligion]

As someone who works in this field, that isn't how it works. If a developer is behind schedule on a project, the CEO who doesn't know the first thing about programming isn't going to start making technical suggestions, they'll leave that to the engineering manager, letting said manager know that there's an expectation of getting back on track.

These hierarchies exist in companies for a reason, Ratcliffe doesn't get involved in telling INEOS engineers how to drill for oil, he should know better here too.

If they had been drilling for oil for 14 months without success maybe he would suggest trying something different.

Just a thought.

 

[gaffs]

If they had been drilling for oil for 14 months without success maybe he would suggest trying something different.

Just a thought.

No no. SJR isn't an exploration geologist, so he needs to stay in his lane and keep funding this futile project.

 

[beck7]

It is not Amorim, it wasn’t mourinho, LVG. There is something rotten in this club more than that and that it above.

 

[The Hilton]

I did look for quotes, but all I could find were ones related to your disingenuous behavior from other Caf members.

But none to corroborate the claims you made about Amorim asking Ratcliffe for money, which your entire argument was based on. Almost as if you made it up.

To paraphrase the King Theoden, while he was possessed, your ad-hominem attacks have no power here.

 

[gaffs]

But none to corroborate the claims you made about Amorim asking Ratcliffe for money, which your entire argument was based on. Almost as if you made it up.

To paraphrase the King Theoden, while he was possessed, your ad-hominem attacks have no power here.

Just to clarify for you, I never once said he directly asked for more money. I would have quoted that time and time again, if that was stated in the media.

What I said was based of Amoirm saying, in the context of him changing systems pre Newcastle....

"I have the feeling that if we have to play a perfect 3-4-3, we need to spend a lot of money and we need time"

To which I ask you, who do you think Amorim would've got that money from?

And if he can't play a "perfect 3-4-3" without more money and time, after 14 months of trying, why is it so out of order for SJR to back a change? Especially given Amorim had said he would evolve "from the outset" of his tenure at United?

Honestly, don't answer. I don't care.

Im having too much fun watching everyone take the piss out of you in the Shea Lacey thread!

 

[The Hilton]

Just to clarify for you, I never once said he directly asked for more money. I would have quoted that time and time again, if that was stated in the media.

What I said was based of Amoirm saying, in the context of him changing systems pre Newcastle....

"I have the feeling that if we have to play a perfect 3-4-3, we need to spend a lot of money and we need time"

To which I ask you, who do you think Amorim would've got that money from?

And if he can't play a "perfect 3-4-3" without more money and time, after 14 months of trying, why is it so out of order for SJR to back a change? Especially given Amorim had said he would evolve "from the outset" of his tenure at United?

Honestly, don't answer. I don't care.

Im having too much fun watching everyone take the piss out of you in the Shea Lacey thread!

More attempts to deflect with ad hominems. The sure sign of a winning argument.

I'm going to leave it at this, as neutral as I can put it so hopefully we can find some agreement - we have different expectations when it comes to behaviour from Ratcliffe as the owner of Man Utd.

This is my last reply to you on the subject.