Ravel Morrison | Derby player

SteveW

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It's a good goal but Jack Wiltshire still turned out to be a better player. Ravel will go down as a what if player. Best case scenario for him is to bloom late like Jamie Vardy but Vardy had years of playing time and Ravel has barely 3 seasons when you add up all his games
I posted that just to respond to a spurs supporter saying he'd never even had one good game.

I don't think Ravel will amount to much. He's wasted a decade.
 

SteveW

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I can understand that, but there's just countless examples of that all across the world. I know a dozen people personally you can apply that about, including one that played for Chelsea youth (anyone remember Gael Kakuta?) and for the pro side for a quick second, who many thought was going to be the next X or Y legend, with ridiculous highlights in youth tournaments and is now playing for a club that just got relegated to Ligue 2, you almost never hear of him anymore. And that's just a dime a dozen.

I just don't get why this guy gets brought up so much over the years.
I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
 

Bondi77

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
Great post.
 

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
I'm not talking about James Milners coming through, I'm talking about players that displayed an ability to look like a man playing amongst boys in their category and above, doing outrageous things in training against the pros, etc. There are countless examples of guys like Ravel that drop off at different steps of their youth career or soon after, whether it's for footballing, health, personal, or mental reasons.

He's not a Cryuff, Gazzas, R10 type of talent that slipped through, otherwise he would have made it, pure and simple. Ronaldinho was a party animal, he wasn't a model professional by any stretch and it eventually caught up to him, but he still pierced through because he was that talented and conquered the world for a moment, that's not even remotely close to what happened with Ravel, hell Hatem Ben Arfa with his horrible attitude, terrible professionalism, and complete lack of desire to use his brain when he's shown in the past he could do it all when he wanted (dribbling, passing, creating) still made more waves than Ravel, and he would have had no problem nutmegging Vidic either. :p

You can have plenty of former players who are going to talk about a kid nutmegging them or taking the piss out of them in training, that's not any kind of distinction to really take anything from. It's normal even for a manager or seasoned players to get excited about a talent coming through, especially when he stands out from the rest, but I don't care whether it's SAF, Vidic, or Rio talking about it, at the end of the day they got too hyped on a kid that hadn't proven himself at the professional level and were disappointed by it. No one likes to see wasted talent, but it doesn't mean they're some infallible talent evaluators or that we should still be hearing about this kid every year. I have to feel for him in a sense, he has to hear about this on a weekly basis it feels like at times.

What's the point of reminding him constantly of his failures and what he could have been? I wish they'd just move on, his story is not unique or special, he's just a kid who had all the talents and didn't make it to the next step, a dime a dozen kind of story in football.
 
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SteveW

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I'm not talking about James Milners coming through, I'm talking about players that displayed an ability to look like a man playing amongst boys in their category and above, doing outrageous things in training against the pros, etc. There are countless examples of guys like Ravel that drop off at different steps of their youth career or soon after, whether it's for footballing, health, personal, or mental reasons.

He's not a Cryuff, Gazzas, R10 type of talent that slipped through, otherwise he would have made it, pure and simple. Ronaldinho was a party animal, he wasn't a model professional by any stretch and it eventually caught up to him, but he still pierced through because he was that talented and conquered the world for a moment, that's not even remotely close to what happened with Ravel, hell Hatem Ben Arfa with his horrible attitude, terrible professionalism, and complete lack of desire to use his brain when he's shown in the past he could do it all when he wanted (dribbling, passing, creating) still made more waves than Ravel, and he would have had no problem nutmegging Vidic either. :p

You can have plenty of former players who are going to talk about a kid nutmegging them or taking the piss out of them in training, that's not any kind of distinction to really take anything from. It's normal even for a manager or seasoned players to get excited about a talent coming through, especially when he stands out from the rest, but I don't care whether it's SAF, Vidic, or Rio talking about it, at the end of the day they got too hyped on a kid that hadn't proven himself at the professional level and were disappointed by it. No one likes to see wasted talent, but it doesn't mean they're some infallible talent evaluators or that we should still be hearing about this kid every year. I have to feel for him in a sense, he has to hear about this on a weekly basis it feels like at times.

What's the point of reminding him constantly of his failures and what he could have been? I wish they'd just move on, his story is not unique or special, he's just a kid who had all the talents and didn't make it to the next step, a dime a dozen kind of story in football.
You're not getting it. The reason people still talk about him and not those other "dime a dozen" kids is because he was that special. It was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched him. He's not some overhyped kid. He was an elite talent. Rooney, Pogba, Rio, SAF had the same opinion.
 

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
Sometimes, when someone has not turned as hoped, it’s nice to say something kind when asked about them. It can soften the blow. Rooney will have done countless ridiculous things in training. No one need refer to them because of everything he has actually incontrovertibly achieved.
 

fps

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You're not getting it. The reason people still talk about him and not those other "dime a dozen" kids is because he was that special. It was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched him. He's not some overhyped kid. He was an elite talent. Rooney, Pogba, Rio, SAF had the same opinion.
It would be really nice if he managed to stay fit and motivated and get the second half of his career going. But his career to date proves that that is exactly what he was, an overhyped kid. And there are lots of them. Remember The Bravery? He’s The Bravery.
 

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
Great post and makes me sad. From that fantastic duo we would also lose the young Pogba only for him to own Serie A. Makes you think how different things would have been over the last 5-6 years had these two immense talents been playing to their best for Manchester United.
 

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Yeah I get bemused by the narrative some force on here that people should never talk about him or want to pretend he wasn't ever that special, most of us who watched so much of him at youth level are genuinely sad how it all turned out, he looked out of this world good. Of course you still get the few odd balls who say he could still turn it around or more silly we should think about resigning him, but most of us are just a bit gutted how he allowed his own career to tank when the potential was scary.
 

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You're not getting it. The reason people still talk about him and not those other "dime a dozen" kids is because he was that special. It was blatantly obvious to anyone who watched him. He's not some overhyped kid. He was an elite talent. Rooney, Pogba, Rio, SAF had the same opinion.
I think neither of us is getting the other. I understand that you keep thinking he was a tier 1 talent because of his skills and how the staff and players drooled over him, and I'm saying there's plenty of players that have elicited that reaction and that it turns out he wasn't a top tier talent and the proof is in his career. I've given you examples of players that are similar headcases and incredibly talented and that have managed to make more of their careers than he did. A guy like Kakuta was considered the most gifted player of his generation by some renowned scouts, he looked so above the competition at time despite his stature and no one talks about him anymore because he's just one of many stories like Ravel.

And as far as talking about talent, for me it is just one tiny aspect, and as it turned out it's Pogba that was the most talented out of that group by far, because talent doesn't stop being a factor once you get out of your teenage years or youth competition, it's a road about who can go the furthest with their engine, not who's hitting certain checkpoints first. Ravel didn't have the engine or talent you're alluding to (which is to say, the highest level of talent) because he would have done more even with all the obstacles he faced, like the examples I've given you with Ben Arfa (also someone players would rave about seeing him do things they had never seen).

It's easy to look like a man among boys on the regular with youth competition, and as far as what's done on the practice field, I mean who gives a crap? Youth players will be eager to impress and veterans won't take them seriously, but to keep using those stories as any kind testament that this was a world-beater gone astray is not going to convince me of anything. Players and veterans will always be kind with youth player, especially if they see that they had a chance and didn't make it, and Ravel was a genuinely bright talent but I can't accept that he was this absolute gem that completely failed against all odds of his talent, if you're a tier 1 talent you will find a way to succeed on some level no matter the obstacles. Maradona was a drug addict, Garrincha/Best were alcoholics and womanizers, Ronaldinho, Pato, there's plenty of examples of real tier 1 talents that had bigger obstacles and still shone through on the professional level to varying degrees.

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
 
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Hate to say it but I do tend to agree that it seems Ravel has been grossly overrated by many within the game.

Silky skills and nutmegs can come natural to a lot of street style footballers growing up playing all day everyday.

What matters is how said player integrates in an actual squad rather than training and how they implement that skillset on the pitch.

Other than youth level showings Ravel has done nothing of note on a professional football pitch.

To compare his natural talent to that of Ronaldinho or players of similar standing is just, well, ridiculous really.

If he had Ronaldinho’s talent he would have made an impact at the top levels. He just would have.

Another thing is the blame people place on his upbringing or social circle, I’m pretty sure Ronaldinho didn’t knock about with Prince Harry and William when he was on the estate in Brazil.
 

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Hate to say it but I tend to think many within the game a probably a much better judge of that than you
His career to date is the only thing we can judge him on. Being amazing in training doesn't mean anything if you don't make it to the pitch.
 

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
Sums it up perfectly. Most probably never saw his performances coming through the youth teams, it was blatantly obvious he would go to the very, very top if he applied himself properly, that's why people talk highly of him.
 

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His career to date is the only thing we can judge him on. Being amazing in training doesn't mean anything if you don't make it to the pitch.
It means that he has wasted his talent, which is what people are discussing? No one is saying he's had an amazing career.
 

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Sums it up perfectly. Most probably never saw his performances coming through the youth teams, it was blatantly obvious he would go to the very, very top if he applied himself properly, that's why people talk highly of him.
So if people don't think he was a tier 1 talent it means they never saw him play? I mean it's pedantic now, but I've made my point on the matter and I actually watched youth competitions with Ravel and Pogba in it (mainly for Pogba), so it's at least an educated opinion on the matter and not just looking to throw shade at a player I have nothing against. I just know that it can't be easy to have to read and be reminded constantly of how you didn't pan out, those guys hear it all the time, with just as much if not more promise than Ravel, but because it's United the guy will have to hear it from everybody for the rest of his life while some others can move on peacefully with their lives.

I doubt Ravel reads the Caf, it's perfectly understandable to discuss it here (although by now it's really beating a dead horse), but when you have personalities on TV still talking about it, it's not a sign of how great his talent was, it's just a sign of people not recognizing that they overrated the kid's talent and ability. It wouldn't be the first time SAF or Rio have been wrong about something.

No matter how much of a headcase you are, if you have that kind of talent that warrants people still talking about a decade later, he would have done just a little bit more.
 

balaks

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It means that he has wasted his talent, which is what people are discussing? No one is saying he's had an amazing career.
I think we can all agree that whatever talent he had has been utterly wasted. My own club has had a few extremely hyped young players who just didn't make it for a variety of reasons too so I get that it is frustrating and disappointing when it doesn't work out (Terry Dixon being a prime example). What I don't get is the obsession some folk in here have about this guy when it's clear that he is going nowhere fast and is never going to make it. Just let it go.
 

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His career to date is the only thing we can judge him on. Being amazing in training doesn't mean anything if you don't make it to the pitch.
Being so amazing in training you have seasoned pros and the best manager in the history of the game hyping you up isn't as common as people are trying to make it out to be. It's not like he once had a good game of street football and people were drooling over him because of a nutmeg he did on a nobody - he was coming through the ranks of Utd's academy, widely considered as one of the best in the country, and was gliding through, impressing at every level and drawing success within his age group. That he didn't kick on as a professional is exactly what is being talked about here, no one is disputing this. But this downplaying of how good he actually was until it started going wrong is frankly strange (and I'm sure spouted by people that didn't really follow him within the youth ranks).
 

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I think we can all agree that whatever talent he had has been utterly wasted. My own club has had a few extremely hyped young players who just didn't make it for a variety of reasons too so I get that it is frustrating and disappointing when it doesn't work out (Terry Dixon being a prime example). What I don't get is the obsession some folk in here have about this guy when it's clear that he is going nowhere fast and is never going to make it. Just let it go.
You're on a Manchester Utd forum, in a thread about a player that was considered as one of the Academy's brightest prospects. People are following his "career" beyond his failure at Manchester. There's nothing strange or "obsessive" about this - the only strange thing is you coming into this thread lecturing people that probably had some attachment to him as a youth player or who are just genuinely interested in how his career pans out.
 

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You're on a Manchester Utd forum, in a thread about a player that was considered as one of the Academy's brightest prospects. People are following his "career" beyond his failure at Manchester. There's nothing strange or "obsessive" about this - the only strange thing is you coming into this thread lecturing people that probably had some attachment to him as a youth player or who are just genuinely interested in how his career pans out.
Ok fair enough.
 

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So if people don't think he was a tier 1 talent it means they never saw him play? I mean it's pedantic now, but I've made my point on the matter and I actually watched youth competitions with Ravel and Pogba in it (mainly for Pogba), so it's at least an educated opinion on the matter and not just looking to throw shade at a player I have nothing against. I just know that it can't be easy to have to read and be reminded constantly of how you didn't pan out, those guys hear it all the time, with just as much if not more promise than Ravel, but because it's United the guy will have to hear it from everybody for the rest of his life while some others can move on peacefully with their lives.

I doubt Ravel reads the Caf, it's perfectly understandable to discuss it here (although by now it's really beating a dead horse), but when you have personalities on TV still talking about it, it's not a sign of how great his talent was, it's just a sign of people not recognizing that they overrated the kid's talent and ability. It wouldn't be the first time SAF or Rio have been wrong about something.

No matter how much of a headcase you are, if you have that kind of talent that warrants people still talking about a decade later, he would have done just a little bit more.
Everyone has their opinion mate and I've nothing against yours. This has all come because Rio and Rooney said he was more talented than Pogba in the youth teams, which was a fair assessment in my eyes, Pogba had an average season the one leading up to him wanting first team minutes. They're not saying Pogba wasn't very talented because he was/is, it's just that Ravel was a tier or two above, again, another fair assessment from people who saw him train and play everyday and saw his natural progression. I'm not saying they never saw him play, I'm saying they probably didn't follow him on a consistent basis, more an average viewer. And like you said yourself, people might have been watching and paying attention to other players and not necessarily on Ravel, who knows.

Also, SAF went out of his way and tried everything he could, he gave Ravel a lot of leeway because he knew how talented he was. He wasn't the only one, Big Sam and Nolan also went out of their way everyday to try and persuade him to join with their agent, these are professionals who have seen it all.

This is football though and Man United sells papers/gains clicks, so anything to do with us will generate income for whoever is publishing the story.
 

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I'm not talking about James Milners coming through, I'm talking about players that displayed an ability to look like a man playing amongst boys in their category and above, doing outrageous things in training against the pros, etc. There are countless examples of guys like Ravel that drop off at different steps of their youth career or soon after, whether it's for footballing, health, personal, or mental reasons.

He's not a Cryuff, Gazzas, R10 type of talent that slipped through, otherwise he would have made it, pure and simple. Ronaldinho was a party animal, he wasn't a model professional by any stretch and it eventually caught up to him, but he still pierced through because he was that talented and conquered the world for a moment, that's not even remotely close to what happened with Ravel, hell Hatem Ben Arfa with his horrible attitude, terrible professionalism, and complete lack of desire to use his brain when he's shown in the past he could do it all when he wanted (dribbling, passing, creating) still made more waves than Ravel, and he would have had no problem nutmegging Vidic either. :p

You can have plenty of former players who are going to talk about a kid nutmegging them or taking the piss out of them in training, that's not any kind of distinction to really take anything from. It's normal even for a manager or seasoned players to get excited about a talent coming through, especially when he stands out from the rest, but I don't care whether it's SAF, Vidic, or Rio talking about it, at the end of the day they got too hyped on a kid that hadn't proven himself at the professional level and were disappointed by it. No one likes to see wasted talent, but it doesn't mean they're some infallible talent evaluators or that we should still be hearing about this kid every year. I have to feel for him in a sense, he has to hear about this on a weekly basis it feels like at times.

What's the point of reminding him constantly of his failures and what he could have been? I wish they'd just move on, his story is not unique or special, he's just a kid who had all the talents and didn't make it to the next step, a dime a dozen kind of story in football.
Ronaldinho was a party animal AFTER he had made it to Europe in his 20s. As a kid growing up he lived and breathed football.

Hatem Ben Arfa had a terrible attitude but football was still his entire life in his early years, that only changed when he became more established, in his 20s.

Plenty of players made it to some degree then succumbed to other things and threw it away, but none of them were doing that stuff at youth level.


Ravel was playing gangster at 15 and 16. No amount of talent is going to make up for the lack of focus in such formative years.
 

Acole9

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I rarely get carried away with players coming through the academy system but Morrison was an unbelievable talent. Definitely looked a better prospect than Pogba.
 

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Just curious.

At youth level,
he's clearly ahead in the skills and technique departments.

But how is he in terms of teamwork, off-the-ball movements and tactical applications?
Genius in every respect. Probably just needed to put on a bit more weight, outside of that there was nothing to fault in his game.
 

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He's not a Cryuff, Gazzas, R10 type of talent that slipped through, otherwise he would have made it, pure and simple. Ronaldinho was a party animal, he wasn't a model professional by any stretch and it eventually caught up to him, but he still pierced through because he was that talented and conquered the world for a moment, that's not even remotely close to what happened with Ravel, hell Hatem Ben Arfa with his horrible attitude, terrible professionalism, and complete lack of desire to use his brain when he's shown in the past he could do it all when he wanted (dribbling, passing, creating) still made more waves than Ravel, and he would have had no problem nutmegging Vidic either. :p
Kinda weird statement in my opinion, you make it sound like a law of nature. This doesn't make any sense to me, whether he was a Ronaldinho'esque talent or not, and sounds like something you'd hear from the mouth of Jez from Peep Show.
 

RooneyLegend

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So if people don't think he was a tier 1 talent it means they never saw him play? I mean it's pedantic now, but I've made my point on the matter and I actually watched youth competitions with Ravel and Pogba in it (mainly for Pogba), so it's at least an educated opinion on the matter and not just looking to throw shade at a player I have nothing against. I just know that it can't be easy to have to read and be reminded constantly of how you didn't pan out, those guys hear it all the time, with just as much if not more promise than Ravel, but because it's United the guy will have to hear it from everybody for the rest of his life while some others can move on peacefully with their lives.

I doubt Ravel reads the Caf, it's perfectly understandable to discuss it here (although by now it's really beating a dead horse), but when you have personalities on TV still talking about it, it's not a sign of how great his talent was, it's just a sign of people not recognizing that they overrated the kid's talent and ability. It wouldn't be the first time SAF or Rio have been wrong about something.

No matter how much of a headcase you are, if you have that kind of talent that warrants people still talking about a decade later, he would have done just a little bit more.
Hard to make an impact when you don't even get on the pitch. There must be something very wrong behind the scenes for what's happened to him to happen. Things that aren't football related.

His talent was elite. Obviously so, from a football standpoint he was everything and more. But physically he wasn't there yet. Technically he was on a different level and had special technique in every respect. Add that to his football brain and speed then you're talking a special talent.

What happened at West Ham was a mystery for me. He went from starting 11 to not mentioned at all without it being football related. No way was he ever so bad not to even get sub minutes and be thrown out on loan. Similar thing happened at QPR.
 

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He's not a Cryuff, Gazzas, R10 type of talent that slipped through, otherwise he would have made it, pure and simple.
Did you watch much of Gazza and Cryuff when they were 14/15/16? So you have some background on what you’re posting. As that’s what Rooney is basing his opinion on, as is Rio, they’re comparing what they have seen with their own eyes.
I don’t get what you’re on about with Ravel, he was a superb youth player. Matters not if he retired from football at 16 to work as a bin man, he was exceptionally talented and the best player in the youth squad. Ravel is probably the best United youth player we’ve had since Adrian Doherty. Ravel is/was fecked in the head, he’s been very unprofessional and struggles with taking direction from those in authority. Obviously people who can better apply themselves will surpass his senior career. Ravel started being a knob at an early age, didn’t get to full adulthood before going off the rails. A lot of players get caught up in things once they’ve made the breakthrough and then fail to achieve their potential.
 

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Hard to make an impact when you don't even get on the pitch. There must be something very wrong behind the scenes for what's happened to him to happen. Things that aren't football related.

His talent was elite. Obviously so, from a football standpoint he was everything and more. But physically he wasn't there yet. Technically he was on a different level and had special technique in every respect. Add that to his football brain and speed then you're talking a special talent.

What happened at West Ham was a mystery for me. He went from starting 11 to not mentioned at all without it being football related. No way was he ever so bad not to even get sub minutes and be thrown out on loan. Similar thing happened at QPR.
Telling your manager/ coaches they’re bellends and storming out of training is going to put you into anyone’s good books. Then going awol while you get over your strop. Lads his own worst enemy.
 

Beachryan

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I used to follow the reserves back then, particularly the season after Rossi when I got MUTV. I feel like Morrison had a bit of the 'less you see of him the better he gets' going on. I recall him missing a lot of games, getting lots of chat particularly from the media (I think Henry Winters once tweeted that the best English player was a 15 year-old in United's youth team).

We had that superb FA Youth Cup run, and he was very good in that - but so were many of the other players in that team, the first XI was excellent. Will Keane in particular was awesome at the time.

Morrison's greatest strength was in his ability to 'flow' between the lines, which he excelled at partly because of the level imo. Aside from occasional glimpses, I genuinely don't remember him running games, or dictating tempo - things that you expect from a 17/18 year old who is getting spoken about in these terms.

I have no doubt his ability on the training pitch was mesmeric - but who cares? That's not what makes a professional footballer great.

Just feel like his narrative has grown to legendary status, and he never really showed enough to justify it. Which is fine, but feels like the horse doesn't keep needing this flogging.
 

Drainy

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I used to follow the reserves back then, particularly the season after Rossi when I got MUTV. I feel like Morrison had a bit of the 'less you see of him the better he gets' going on. I recall him missing a lot of games, getting lots of chat particularly from the media (I think Henry Winters once tweeted that the best English player was a 15 year-old in United's youth team).

We had that superb FA Youth Cup run, and he was very good in that - but so were many of the other players in that team, the first XI was excellent. Will Keane in particular was awesome at the time.

Morrison's greatest strength was in his ability to 'flow' between the lines, which he excelled at partly because of the level imo. Aside from occasional glimpses, I genuinely don't remember him running games, or dictating tempo - things that you expect from a 17/18 year old who is getting spoken about in these terms.

I have no doubt his ability on the training pitch was mesmeric - but who cares? That's not what makes a professional footballer great.

Just feel like his narrative has grown to legendary status, and he never
Sure, you know to spot a player better than the greatest manager in English football history, one of the best centre halves in in English football history and the top goal scorer of all time for England and Man United.
 

Canadianred17

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I think neither of us is getting the other. I understand that you keep thinking he was a tier 1 talent because of his skills and how the staff and players drooled over him, and I'm saying there's plenty of players that have elicited that reaction and that it turns out he wasn't a top tier talent and the proof is in his career. I've given you examples of players that are similar headcases and incredibly talented and that have managed to make more of their careers than he did. A guy like Kakuta was considered the most gifted player of his generation by some renowned scouts, he looked so above the competition at time despite his stature and no one talks about him anymore because he's just one of many stories like Ravel.

And as far as talking about talent, for me it is just one tiny aspect, and as it turned out it's Pogba that was the most talented out of that group by far, because talent doesn't stop being a factor once you get out of your teenage years or youth competition, it's a road about who can go the furthest with their engine, not who's hitting certain checkpoints first. Ravel didn't have the engine or talent you're alluding to (which is to say, the highest level of talent) because he would have done more even with all the obstacles he faced, like the examples I've given you with Ben Arfa (also someone players would rave about seeing him do things they had never seen).

It's easy to look like a man among boys on the regular with youth competition, and as far as what's done on the practice field, I mean who gives a crap? Youth players will be eager to impress and veterans won't take them seriously, but to keep using those stories as any kind testament that this was a world-beater gone astray is not going to convince me of anything. Players and veterans will always be kind with youth player, especially if they see that they had a chance and didn't make it, and Ravel was a genuinely bright talent but I can't accept that he was this absolute gem that completely failed against all odds of his talent, if you're a tier 1 talent you will find a way to succeed on some level no matter the obstacles. Maradona was a drug addict, Garrincha/Best were alcoholics and womanizers, Ronaldinho, Pato, there's plenty of examples of real tier 1 talents that had bigger obstacles and still shone through on the professional level to varying degrees.

But I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
I agree with this post. There's a ton of talented players that failed to live up to expectations. Kakuta was a bigger talent than Ravel. The Ravel attention is getting nauseating.
 

Canadianred17

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Sure, you know to spot a player better than the greatest manager in English football history, one of the best centre halves in in English football history and the top goal scorer of all time for England and Man United.
Did the greatest manager ever also sign Bebé?
 

Chipper

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Not getting the attitude of some of these posts. It's a football forum where we as fans give our opinion and none of us really know shit about the game compared to someone who has even been involved at Conference North/South level. If people had to have credentials to disagree with something any manager or player in the professional games has done/said there'd be feck all posts.

Fergie was wrong about Dong Fangzhou. Is that ok to say? Do I think I know how to spot a player better than him now? Hope nobody ever disagreed with anything David Moyes did or said as United manager. If you did, shut up, he knows more than you by far about the game.
 

Ali Dia

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I've seen hundreds of hyped kids too. He was on a different level to them. Not sure why people seem so intent on arguing this point when people like SAF, Rio and Rooney who saw him up close all say the same thing.

The biggest reason why him not making it bothers people is because he was incredibly entertaining to watch play. Rio still gets giddy about things he's seen him do in training. Rooney is still talking about the kid who nutmegged Vidic 3 times in a minute. These are some of the best players in our history who have played with and against the very best. They know quality when they see it up close.

There's a million James Milners out there but not too many Cruyffs, Gazzas, Ronaldinhos etc. When one of those slips through the net it feels like something a bit more precious has been lost. Because they are rare. Ravel could have been one of those. And he should have been for United.
I feel exactly the same way about Ravel. I’ve Been lurking on here since he was about to break through and I was genuinely gutted he couldn’t sort himself out even just for himself. He could have been a top player here and there aren’t many who skip through you could say that about. Hence the fascination.. I’m seriously surprised the penny didn’t drop sooner with him though. There are lots of less talented players from difficult backgrounds who were able to kick on but he always struck me as someone who would rather be a big fish in a small pond and he’s not even that anymore. I actually feel a bit sorry for him now but I’m sure he’s made plenty of money out of football and there’ll always be a club willing to give him “one last chance” articles like rooneys and Rios just keep clubs interested in turning him around. Fair enough if you’re an injury prone star you don’t train as hard but if you’ve done nothing you should be balls to the wall every day and it sounds like he really didn’t have that in him
 

Drainy

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Not getting the attitude of some of these posts. It's a football forum where we as fans give our opinion and none of us really know shit about the game compared to someone who has even been involved at Conference North/South level. If people had to have credentials to disagree with something any manager or player in the professional games has done/said there'd be feck all posts.

Fergie was wrong about Dong Fangzhou. Is that ok to say? Do I think I know how to spot a player better than him now? Hope nobody ever disagreed with anything David Moyes did or said as United manager. If you did, shut up, he knows more than you by far about the game.
Fergie said a lot of things because he was a pragmatic man manager. His actions always spoke more loudly and he gave more leeway to Morrison because of his talent than he did for almost anyone. It wasn't until Ravel reached the first team and refused to agree a new contract for less than 50k a week that Sir Alex gave up on him.

Yes you can have your opinion but to rewrite history with the hindsight of knowing that Morrison wasted his talents to act like your hot take was a better assessment than people who have more footballing knowledge than all of us combined is ridiculous.
 

Skills

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Didn't Bojan look a bigger talent than Messi and smash his youth team records? I may be wrong here
Don't think he was ever rated higher than Messi, but he was extremely highly rated.
 

lsd

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I agree with this post. There's a ton of talented players that failed to live up to expectations. Kakuta was a bigger talent than Ravel. The Ravel attention is getting nauseating.

Exactly you would think ravel is the only talented player ever to fail to live up the hype .

I have sympathy for Aiden Doherty who by all accounts was he best youngster most Utd insiders ever but suffered a career ending injury

Lots of players even more talented than Morrison also failed through no fault of their own .

Morrison however wanted to play at being a gangsta rather than a footballer so I have no sympathy for him