A friend, Liverpool supporter, for years went on and on about how much more money we spend compared to them on transfers, and they obviously had a huge disadvantage in that. Became clear the difference wasnt all that big, they could even have outspent us, he went quite for a few months. Now just like everyother liverpooler he cant stop talking about how much we spend on wages
RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2009/10)
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Funny definition of "stonewall penalty" over there.
Pray tell.
If they're reffering to the one they didn't get at White Hart Lane, they probably have a right to be angry.
But swings and roundabouts and all that. Anything to get them worked up!
Courtesy of ScouseModernDictionary.com
Stonewall Penalty
- 1. The goalscoring chance which should be provided as a result of a Liverpool player getting dispossessed of the ball within 30 yards of the opponent's goal line, but which is never given because Ferguson and/or Sky Sport bribes the refs
- 2. The goalscoring chance which should be given as result of a Liverpool player losing his balance and/or footing anywhere on a football pitch. Also never given.
See also: Cheating bastards at FA
Stonewall Penalty
- 1. The goalscoring chance which should be provided as a result of a Liverpool player getting dispossessed of the ball within 30 yards of the opponent's goal line, but which is never given because Ferguson and/or Sky Sport bribes the refs
- 2. The goalscoring chance which should be given as result of a Liverpool player losing his balance and/or footing anywhere on a football pitch. Also never given.
See also: Cheating bastards at FA
Has Murph actually come to accept that the transfer fees argument, which scousers have been clutching at for years, is in fact complete bollocks and is now trying to pretend it's actually wages that are the reason we have been far more successful than them? Pretty poor form that. Maybe if you didn't waste your money on 20 nobodies a season you could offer slightly higher wages for the better players?This whole argument is pants anyway, we have a far higher turn over than Liverpool so of course we are going to be able to offer better contracts to our players. And why do we have a higher turnover? Because we have been winning feck loads more than them over the past 15 years.
Fergie came in and took and underachieving club full of washed up players, and made it into the most dominant team in England. This was at a time Liverpool were at the top of their game, but then Liverpool starting investing their money in stupid ways, losing it hand over foot with idiotic purchases. Whilst we went about revamping our youth system and putting money in to areas and players that would eventually revelutionise the club. We didn't bring in eleven superstars, we bred a team through our youth system and built on that whilst Liverpool were throwing their money at the likes of Jimmy Carter and Phil Babb.
Now our hard work has paid dividends and we have built ourselves into the biggest club on the planet and Fergie is still, for the most part, getting his signings spot on. We spent our money wisely and in doing so have got ourselves in to a position where we can start spending more as the years go by. You lot on the other hand have been throwing money at average players for years, if you had spent your money better during the early 90's you would most likely still be the dominant force. It's no different now either. We have been more successful than you in the last 15 years so we have earned every penny we have spent, it's hardly our fault you have had managers like Souness, Houllier and Benitez throwing millions at poor players.
feck me, they really do actually believe there is some sort of organised corruption ring at the FA which is in place to hold Liverpool back.We haven't run away with any title since 2001.
Not down to them failing to convert their chances early on against Villa. No sirree Bob!
Thats ridiculous. Crazy, bitter people. The only thing holding them back is their failure to accept their own inadequacies, not these loony conspiracy theories.Lets put it simplier terms for you,We have spent alot less overall and won a hell of alot more,is that sraight forward enough
i would say that's pretty much the story in miniature
It's probably more when you take into account wages.
Most of my posts have been in the current events forum which used to have some quite interesting topics to discuss with good people. And RAWK doesn't have a similarly long thread so you're wrong again.
Personally, contrary to most people here, i think Rafa is a brilliant tactician. I really do. His record with Valencia and Liverpool in the Champions League and La Liga speaks for itself. However brilliant tactics he comes up with, i always felt he let himself down with his myopic and limited player management, as well as being pretty obstinate with his judgements. His tactics for his first 11 during games are usually pretty impressive. However when things don't go accordingly, he seems to be lost and unable to react accordingly with his subsititions.
Also, i felt that when he sold Keane back to Spurs, that was the moment Liverpool lost the title. Given Torres injury record, and having only Ngog as a backup striker (with Kuyt predominantly on the right flank), it was suicidal. Keane would have contributed towards the last quarter of the fixtures, no doubt about it. When he was facing pressure from the fans, Rafa certainly mismanaged him, and i thought Keane was very stiffled and didn't perform. Alex Ferguson would have stuck to him, irregardless of opinions, ala Berbatov. He would have eventually come good.
As for this season, it's clear that a striker is a priority, and he went out spending 20mil on a attacking fullback who can't defend and another 20mil on an injury prone Aquilani. Should the money be better spend on a backup striker like Negredo or even Dani Guiza, and a midfielder like Sneijder, etc?
As for Arbeloa, he should never had let him go, not at that price anyway. What could he have hope to get back for 5mil in the current market? Arbeloa was one of the more impressive rightback and he could have solve that position for Liverpool for the next 5 years. The current poor start all point towards Rafa and his indecisiveness, and f*cked up transfer policies.
Simply put, is there many better tacticians than Benitez? I don't think so. Are there better managers for Liverpool? More than a handfull.
All good points. No doubt will be lost on the majority of the Scouse faithful though.
Some of RAWK's Man United match threads have gone into 50/60 pages, mostly full of bitterness and bile about referees, and wishing career ending injuries on our players.
And of course RAWK doesn't have a thread like this. Let's face it, what are you gonna laugh about? "Oh look at RedCafe, their team's reigning champions 3 years in a row, look at their fans mostly content and happy, not making up bitter conspiracies or wishing injuries on our players."
Just doesn't have the same comedy appeal as your lot does it?
Is RAWK having an actual meltdown?
(I can't access it btw)
(I can't access it btw)
I think so.
CL Group stage draw was fixed you see
CL Group stage draw was fixed you see
"busting football wide open", ffs.
Cruisaders, the lot of 'em.
Right, last go, I have a hard day on the golf course.
Transfer fees are total speculation and can be structured, i.e. not actually paid for in full. This is where the yanks have for a while created a smokescreen. But nobody takes players wages into account and these are FAR more relative to who plays for you.
So try this on for size, and unlike your rants this isn't bullshit.
FT.com / UK - Premier League wages bill tops £1bn
Premier League wages bill tops £1bn
By Roger Blitz, Leisure Industries Correspondent
Published: June 4 2009 03:00 | Last updated: June 4 2009 03:00
Total wages in the Premier League have exceeded £1bn for the first time as England's elite football clubs take advantage of extra television rights revenue in a scramble for talent.
Their financial advantage over rival European leagues is set to narrow, however, because of sterling's decline against the euro and the incoming 50 per cent tax band for top earners, according to Deloitte's annual review of football finance.
The Premiership wage bill rose 23 per cent to £1.2bn in the 2007-08 season, according to the report. Chelsea comfortably topped the wage league, with Roman Abramovich's club spending £172m on salaries, compared with £121m spent by Manchester United, £101m by Arsenal and £90m by Liverpool.But the wages-to-revenue ratio dipped slightly to 62 per cent because revenues across the 20 clubs grew 26 per cent to £1.9bn.
A £736m surplus enabled the Premier League to nearly double operating profits to £185m, although only 11 out of 20 clubs were in profit, while operating margins fell.
At the same time, there was a rise in net debt - which worries the government and the Football Association - by £400m to £3.1bn, including £1.2bn of soft loans from club owners, such as Mr Abramovich. Interest charges totalled £188m.
Dan Jones, of Deloitte's Sports Business Group, said that, with pressures from the recession on season ticket renewals, sponsorship and merchandising, the 16 per cent compound annual growth rate enjoyed by the Premier League since its inception in 1992 was likely to slow, despite a 4 per cent increase in the value of its new domestic TV rights deal.
"You might be looking at 5 per cent annual growth in the next five years," he said.
The surprise finding was an 18 per cent increase in other operating costs - areas such as utility, property and insurance - which takes the increase since 2005-06 to 42 per cent. Those costs grew at an annual rate of just 3 per cent in the preceding four years.
With revenue growth slowing and wage costs unlikely to decline, controlling those costs was probably the only way profitability could be improved, said Deloitte.
Mr Jones said the exchange rate was "definitely helping to close the gap" between the Premier League and top clubs in continental Europe, and the 50 per cent tax rate would also make a difference.
"But once you get down to 7th or 8th place in the Premiership and look at the equivalent on the continent, the gap is still substantial," he said. The revenue gap between the Premier League and both Germany's Bundesliga and Spain's La Liga is more than €1bn (£863m), despite a 15 per cent depreciation in sterling.
While the amount spent on wages tends to determine a club's league position, no such correlation exists in the Football League's Championship, where revenues grew 12 per cent but net debt rose by £28m to £326m.
Wages in the Championship rose £32m to £291m, but the wages-to-revenue ratio is a worrying 87 per cent, up from 79 per cent the previous year. Player wages are up across the Football League, by 17 per cent in the Championship, 27 per cent in League One and 8 per cent in League Two.
"For larger clubs, playing to sold-out stadia, with strong demand for corporate packages and wide commercial appeal, the impact [of the economic downturn] may be limited," said Mr Jones.
"However, for smaller clubs, where demand is more variable and where significant excess capacity exists, the downside may be more pronounced."
Fact!!
Here are more facts
Our wage bill as a proportion of turnover is lowest in PL.
The wage bill is not only about players and United would by its very size ( ground, turnover, marketing etc) automaically have a higher wage bill than any other club in PL.
Our wage bill would have been reduced this summer without two of the highest earners yours will have increased with a improved contracts for your key players + johnson this summer.
Despite the fact that theirs is probably roughly similar to ours in terms of opponents. Lyon might be a tougher test than CSKA, but Wolfsburg will cause more problems than Debrecen, in theory. I could kind of understand annoyance if they'd been drawn with Real Madrid or Inter Milan, but they've not got the toughest group for a first seed by any means.
I mean we went through I think it was 10 FA Cup ties in a row playing all Premier League opposition, the chances of that being miniscule, yet people didn't really complain much. One not wonderfully easy draw for Liverpool and they're back on the conspiracy bandwagon. Pitiful, really.
My favourite part of the RAWK reaction to that phase was that as their were getting drawn against Havant and Waterlooville, and Luton Town, they were fecking whinging that we had too many home FA Cup games. Against Arsenal. And Spurs.And to top that all off, they were at home against Havant. That's got to be one of the easiest cup draws in History (despite the fact they did go 2-1 down before half time
). I'm interested in which part of their group most of them think they've had the conspiracy against them in. They've avoided most of the major forces they could've got, and have got the 3rd place French side, Lyon, and Fiorentina, who were a way off the Italian title last year, as well as Debrecen who've never been in the tournament before. It's not the easiest draw, no, but they've not got anyone there who they could reasonably think they'd been unlucky to be placed with.Perhaps they can apply to have Havant in their group as well? If the appeal's turned down, then it's surely UEFA's fault.
Don't forget the travel factor. the furthest they have to go to is Debrecen, whereas we've got to go to Turkey and Moscow, one after the other (i think).
I cant believe you're not coming to the match tonight Foxy.
Sssh...don't spoil their fun. It's all they have.
I mean most on here had noticed that there'd be a lot of travel in, which would possibly affect the weekend games which followed, especially the trip to Moscow, but it's just an accepted part of the draw, and whoever you get, well that's where you have to go. I'm not going to say that there'd definitely be a rant about this on RAWK if it was them. I'd assume there would be, judging by their reactions to the draw in general, but it's not happened this year so it's hard to say.
They got all in a flap about our 'easy' draw against Porto last season as well, but ignored the fact it followed an uncharacteristically tough second round clash against Inter Milan. I'm sure if the travel affected them, it could quite easily be brought into the melting pot of conspiracy.
Mate, I walked into work at about 4pm this arvo feeling quite shit and still do a little bit. I think taking the night off is a good move.
I'm enjoying watching Fowler lose though
Whatchoolaughinatfool?
Give or take 10-15 million quid.
BBC SPORT | Football | Europe | Liverpool complete Torres signing
What a ridiculous thread. The funniest part of it was when a poster tried to justify the integrity of the Liverpool physios by coming out with this gem:
"didn't our physio help when Alan Smith broke his leg?"
Well feck me, a medical professional helping out someone who's just broken his leg, give the man a medal!To be fair RAWK we've been more successful than you, so there's likely to be less bitterness from our fans, which means it won't be as entertaining for the lot at RAWK to read.
I honestly didn't know that. I thought it was £27 mill myself.
To be honest Liverpool never divulge fees. But to be that far out and claiming Hargreaves cost £10m to £15m less than Torres is very unSpoonlike.
Torres was a bit of a bargain I'd say.........
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