We are absolutely miles off being able to accommodate this
Rayan Cherki | City agree deal for €35m + €6m add-ons (Romano) | Deal completed
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Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) give their end of season awards out! They celebrate the best players, goals and moments of the season (there were some, honestly) and also give out awards for the worst and most disappointing players/moments of the season.
They then discuss all the latest transfer rumours and get into the potential ins and outs this summer at Old Trafford.
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I agree with this general perspective but there's a really important difference between Cherki and Dembele which is that Dembele is an absolutely elite athlete.
Cherki has two kinds of drawbacks. He's lazy and he's a very average athlete. You can hopefully improve the former but not the latter. This means he's not going to be a player that travels with the ball a lot and he's going to have the Antony/Sancho type issue where he can beat a man with his footwork but then he has to beat him again five seconds later because the defender can recover. All of that means he's likely to be playing inside and its harder to hide a low-work rate player inside in modern pressing systems than it is to hide a winger. He's a magician with his feet so he could still be a difference making player in the final third, especially against teams that give him space. But I think he'll always be a player where you're balancing a big contribution against some big drawbacks.
I think that after beating his man the first time, he'll most likely just make a great pass forward. Antony and Sancho don't have the same level of creativity and variety in their passing, so they can't hide their physical shortcomings.
That sounds awesome, why don’t you go work for United and try to motivate Sancho and Rashford to put in the work and we would already be in much less of a mess.
We signed Højlund who looks like he doesn’t even know what to do when the ball shows up for 75 million quid, and some fans are turning their noses up at Cherki for 30m?
Come on man.
Come on man.
I think Cherki has very good burst off of both feet even if he's not a top level sprinter or has pace to burn. His stamina seems very meh right now, but so is Mainoo's yet fans around here would have you drawn and quartered for suggesting we get rid of him because of this. But either way he's freakishly technical and brilliant as a creative passer, dribbler, and ball striker, something neither Antony nor Sancho have ever been. At his worst I think you have a two footed Mesut Ozil clone, and I think if prime Mesut Ozil was available for that price you'd be stupid to not take a punt on bringing him in and trying to up his work rate.
Too many act like Cherki is Sergio Busquets athletically. It's sort of symptomatic of how obsessed modern football has become with being able to run fast and run a lot, without asking questions about quality first and foremost.
He came on at 62' and total changed the chemistry of the French team. What a debut!
His quality is undeniable but the athletic limitations are real. If the only questions were about his work rate, he wouldn't be available for 30-40m euro.
Ozil was a totally different class of athlete to Cherki, especially at a similar age. He was a dynamite runner with and without the ball, as one can see from his 2010 World Cup, his time at Werder Bremen, or his first couple years at Real. He could ghost past the last line and run the channels in a way that Cherki will never be able to do. And his work rate was actually much better than Cherki's as well. His lackadaisical posture gave him a bad rap but he regularly ran the most distance in the Arsenal team and was a player that constantly moved on the pitch when in possession.
His defensive issues are way owerblown. When we played Lyon, you can see his workrate is average and he won't bust his gut to get the ball back but he was pretty disciplined in getting back to position and more importantly to close his passing lanes. That is enough. Lyon pressed us quite efficiently at times with him upfront.
When he gets on the Pep Inhaler and start pressing for 90 minutes
Loved Memphis at Lyon and I still reckon him,Fekir and Lacazette each defined an era for the club in recent history as the main men.
However Cherki is vastly superior to any of these three talent-wise and in terms of ceiling.
Memphis was the better goalscorer (which could change in the future as Cherki improves and gains more confidence) but other than that it's not even a contest in terms of playmaking/passing/dribbling or simply raw technical ability.
The kid started as a pro at 15 and was immature and wildly inconsistent for a few years, like most teenage boys. I dont know why some people who barely watched him try to keep pushing that "lazy" narrative. He's not lazy and hasnt been for a while. I've watched him since he was 16 and it's obvious how much his attitude has changed, he gets it now.
I think he is not the right profile for us, there could not be any other reason because he plays in the same Right number 10 spot where we are looking for Mbuemo and he is only available for 30M whereas we are willing to spend close to 50 to 60M.
If anybody should have been interested considering we saw him up close and must have done analysis of him in the recent matches (he also scored twice against us as well). But there are no links, normally with signings these days its clearly mentioned that these clubs were interested and the player opted for this club (Mbeumo is very good example of this Newcastle, Arsenal and Spurs were interested), but nothing about Utd interest is mentioned.
My understanding is, It appears there is a conscious effort from our end to go for premier league proven players to ensure there is no settling in required. Plus we already have Cunha who enjoys having more touches and coming towards the ball. You ideally want opposite from both 10s, one coming the other trying to stretch the play and going in behind, which is where Mbeumo thrives. Plus he is physically a beast with pace to burn, which is again both areas where Cherki is lacking. As Amorim has been going on about Pace, Power Physicality, Mbeumo and Cunha are perfect players for the system as well as the profile we are looking to sign.
If anybody should have been interested considering we saw him up close and must have done analysis of him in the recent matches (he also scored twice against us as well). But there are no links, normally with signings these days its clearly mentioned that these clubs were interested and the player opted for this club (Mbeumo is very good example of this Newcastle, Arsenal and Spurs were interested), but nothing about Utd interest is mentioned.
My understanding is, It appears there is a conscious effort from our end to go for premier league proven players to ensure there is no settling in required. Plus we already have Cunha who enjoys having more touches and coming towards the ball. You ideally want opposite from both 10s, one coming the other trying to stretch the play and going in behind, which is where Mbeumo thrives. Plus he is physically a beast with pace to burn, which is again both areas where Cherki is lacking. As Amorim has been going on about Pace, Power Physicality, Mbeumo and Cunha are perfect players for the system as well as the profile we are looking to sign.
Jacques Grealish
Indeed. It’s very clear who has actually watched him recently and who hasn’t.
Yeah we’ve clearly taken the “Prem proven” route this summer. Not exactly an efficient approach in a limited funds rebuild situation. But not surprising considering we have an inexperienced, recently promoted DoF who will no doubt be looking over his shoulder. Wilcox is playing it ultra safe which could backfire spectacularly as the age profile we are targeting leaves no room for error from a resale value perspective. Never mind having to pay a premium to sign such targets in the first place.
This lazy aspect has been dogging him for season after season now, even post debut seasons.
Wheres there's smoke and all that...
A lot of people who have watched Cherki in the game have stated as such, quality on the ball slightly lazy without.
It was a legitimate criticism years ago but that doesn’t make it so now. Would you say no to Kvaratskhelia now despite his massive improvement in workrate last season ?
Lazy logic if anything.
France beats Spain if he starts that match.
What has another player got to do with Cherki? if anything that's lazy logic, applying something of no relevance in order to make your point.
It's well known that off the ball his work rate isn't the best, you can see that just by watching him, which apparently only you have!
Top player. Can’t see him being a massive player for City and if they get him for the reported fees, then it could be a bargain of a buy.
Quiet in here today
I mentioned Kvara because it’s typical that once a narrative is formed it often becomes a stigma which sticks with the player whether it’s accurate or not. If you hadn’t watched Kvara much this season you would have the same opinion of him from years past, which would be inaccurate same as it is for Cherki.
There have been multiple posts in this thread from French posters who follow the Ligue 1 and Cherki much closer than you or I do and they all disagree with the lazy/lack of athleticism schtick.
To be fair, I am one of the people who has pushed the idea that Cherki's contribution in the defensive phase could cause us pretty big problems next season and even I would agree that it's a bit lazy in and of itself to just run with the "he's too lazy for us" argument.
My argument here is not that Cherki's too lazy to do the job for us but rather that I've seen nothing to suggest that he has the aggression or the sheer athleticism that will allow him to make life difficult for our opponents when they have the ball next season. I think this could be quite an issue for us as I still don't think we'll be strong enough to completely dominate possession against most Premier League sides next year, so we can't afford to be "easy" to bypass when we don't have the ball.
In fairness to Cherki, he's currently playing in a side which has a lot of possession, so it may well be that I'm wrong and that he'd be able to transition to a side that has less of it more seamlessly than I'm anticipating. With that being said, right now I think the evidence for that is fairly limited, and this isn't something you can just say "well it's clear that you haven't watched him then" to - the numbers don't lie and they currently show that Cherki is not a player who gets through a tonne of defensive work.
To put it in the most simple terms I possibly can, when I compare Cherki to the two players we've either signed or are almost certainly looking to sign in the attacking midfield spots next season (Cunha and Mbeumo), I feel very comfortable asserting that Cherki would be a distant third when it comes to aggression, athleticism, and defensive contribution right now. That's not to say he's useless at it or that he's lazy. It's just that I think that, at the current level he's at for these attributes, I'm not convinced that we wouldn't find them problematic going into next season.
There have also been multiple reports and multiple people knowledgeable in the game bringing into question his physique and willingness to track back and work hard for the team out of possession.
I can't remember anyone really questioning Kvara's desire or work rate, he's always been a willing runner as far as I'm concerned, so that has zero relevance on anything here.
City deal completed according to Guillemet (tier 1 for Lyon and club mouthpiece really)
Oh what could have been….
€35m
sigh
sigh
Love to see it
That's a very low fee considering his potential.
Bargain. Bit gutted we couldn't get him.
Dont understand how City get some of these prices. I still think its a strange one, not a typical Pep signing but maybe he wants something different, especially with Grealish on his way out. Would have loved to see this player at United but dont think he fits Amorim's system.
At that price even if he flops they can sell him next year or year after for a profit.
Its a win win signing.
Yeah I think we're going to regret not going all in for him. Especially at that price. Some players you just need to take the chance on. Regardless of formation fit or not. Sigh.
How for so cheap? Even if his contract expires next year (don't know if it did) that's mad
Balls. At least our forward signings should be better defensively eh.
Great piece of business for that price.
Really good thing the people in charge didn't listen to OGS... we got Zirkzee, Mount, Antony, Højlund and Sancho instead.
Lyon are in deep financial trouble. They will sell other players soon but Cherki was clearly the one to get. At that price should have went in to make him rotate with Saka/Odegaard.
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