8/12 dribbles completed yesterday. Mental given how much of a borefest that game was and how well Nîmes parked their bus.
Rayan Cherki - Lyon player
- Thread starter Suvvernmanc
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Yeah, this guy looks pretty special, just turned 17. Next big thing out of Ligue 1. We should give Dortmund the middlefinger and chase this guy instead...
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Didn’t we try and sign him before he signed a professional contract?
We were very close to signing him too alongside mejbri. I never realised how good he was back then but I guess there wasn’t much footage around!.
this kid will be one of the stars of the next generation. Bossing men’s football at such a young age is just crazy. He does the basics so well once he starts adding regular goals and assists the sky is the limit.
this kid will be one of the stars of the next generation. Bossing men’s football at such a young age is just crazy. He does the basics so well once he starts adding regular goals and assists the sky is the limit.
With rumors of Reine-Adelaide and maybe Depay leaving, he could gain a bit more gametime this season. Lyon's academy is literally a money printing machine.
He looks technical but physically able to handle the pressure too.
Even though he isnt a RW, I watch some of these players and Sancho doesn't really excite me all that much anymore.
Even though he isnt a RW, I watch some of these players and Sancho doesn't really excite me all that much anymore.
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Genuinely hope we see a lot more of him in 2021 because he is by far the most exciting player to watch amongst all u21 in the world for me.
Absolutely love watching him. I’m convinced he’ll be a star very soon.
I expect he’ll get a lot more minutes when Memphis leaves this summer?
The real talent is his ability to grow such an impressive beard at 17 ! 
The guy looks like he's in his late twenties.
The guy looks like he's in his late twenties.
With the money pumped into the game and the hoops people will jump through for it, he may well beThe real talent is his ability to grow such an impressive beard at 17 !
The guy looks like he's in his late twenties.
A couple of goals and a assist for the young Franco Algerian, talent against Sochaux in the French Cup. Almost scored a sublime chip from just inside his own half which the Sochaux keeper did well to tip over the bar.
Was actually an underwhelming compilation despite the 2G and A.
Anyway didn't know he was two footed. That was the most impressive part. Looked like a predominantly left footed player and then chips with his right foot. Impressive.
Anyway didn't know he was two footed. That was the most impressive part. Looked like a predominantly left footed player and then chips with his right foot. Impressive.
His ability on the ball is very impressive. But his base talent is similar to that of Saka etc currently - what will differentiate them is how badly they want it, if they learn how to make the right runs, the right plays etc.
Will be interesting to see how he develops, he has a very good starting level but he needs to work hard. With Neymar getting older we really lack a successor for a flair dribbler for the 2020s generation so hopefully one or two of the emerging talents can push through.
Will be interesting to see how he develops, he has a very good starting level but he needs to work hard. With Neymar getting older we really lack a successor for a flair dribbler for the 2020s generation so hopefully one or two of the emerging talents can push through.
I'm calling cap on this one.
He's far more talented than Saka.
Needs a lot more care with those longer passes back towards his own goal
I mean is he though?
He absolutely is.
Saka isn't two footed, doesn't have his dribbling and technical ability and wasn't scoring brace in professional football at 16/17.
To me Cherki is the most naturally talented since Neymar.
This match was 1 week after Saka turned 18, which is a much higher level than a second division French side in fairness.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...-League-2019-2020-Eintracht-Frankfurt-Arsenal
Cherki has better technical ability and is a truly outstanding talent but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be the better player.
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Yeah that’s the first thing that struck me. He’s done those loose back passes 4 or 5 times.
looks like a clone between hazard & Mahrez which is no bad thing. The chip on goal was superb.
Certainly doesn’t look it. His dribbling not as smooth, doesn’t have the extra burst of pace, quite amazing you draw these conclusions when he doesn’t look any more naturally talented than Foden Dembele or Sancho for me.
And Saka is very two footed, you must have not watched him, he was also being one of Arsenals most productive players at 18, not much difference.
Cherki looked incredible at youth level. Players couldn’t get the ball off him. Obviously as you get into senior football the players are a lot faster and stronger. If you asked me who was the best between Saka and Cherki at youth level I’d have said Cherki by a country mile. Saka is the kind of player that makes optimal decisions a lot of the time. His game is more basic than Cherki’s but there are many other factors required to make it at senior level. If you had the youth version of Ben Arfa vs the youth version of Frank Lampard you’d pick Ben Arfa over Lampard in a heartbeat, for example.
Cherki at Sakas current age will probably be better
It’s definitely possible that it’s probable.
Might be born in the wrong era.
Too much of a free spirit?
Year upon year football tries to remove traditional playmakers. He might end up being one of the victims.
It’s the way the game has evolved. It’s more and more about tactical systems with players in tightly defined roles, roles that include physical and tactical diligence.
Cherki completes 7.2 dribbles per 90 minutes out of 9.4 attempted in Ligue 1 this season.
Saka is nowhere near his dribbling ability, absolutely nowhere. Adama Traore is the only player to regularly hit 7+ in the Prem, even Hazard was around 5-6 for most of his stay in England.
Example : 15 minutes cameo vs Nantes
Saka ain't doing any of this against pros.Tweet
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You can go ask popular scouts on social media, they'll all tell you Cherki is a bigger talent than Dembele,Foden or Sancho, let alone Saka.
And none of these guys were even playing,scoring and assisting at 17, they all started out at 18.
That's the sort of nonsense that's being peddled about while the truth is what we're left with is a bunch of teams that look more and more clueless on week to week basis.
I don't think he's a bigger talent than Dembele, Foden, or Sancho personally, because they were more impactful at the professional level when they started than what he's shown so far. Dembele at Rennes was way more productive, Sancho is one of the most productive players in all of Europe, and Foden has been held back but shown he's extremely talented and can produce when given the chance. I think Cherki's on that talent level or thereabouts, but talent means feck all and he's not producing like those guys so far at the same stage of their career (he may be a year younger, and that means something, but this is his first real season as part of the rotation and he's doing worse than all the names you're comparing him to when they started themselves). I don't think a year on he will be a drastically different player than what we're seeing now, and at that point he'd be in his second (and some change) season which would be an advantage when we compare him to those other players who put up better number as they learned the professional game on their first season. The age matters a bit, but nowhere near as much as actual experience.
It's too early to judge where he will be, but he is far from a guaranteed success. I don't think he'll ever reach Mbappe's level for example, who is probably a lesser talent than him but a far more physically and mentally gifted player, which matters more than talent IMO. I don't think he will have Sancho's production at 18-19 either. I think Cherki's going to struggle at the elite level to find consistency for a while, but if he can figure it out, he has all the tools to be one of the best in the world, and I really hope we see it because I'd love to see him turn up for France and link up with players like Mbappe, Pogba, and Camavinga down the line.
They were all older than him when they started out. He is more precocious than any of them and has dominated youth categories in a way none of them ever has.
Dembele 1997, started out in 2015/16, at 18 year old.
Which would correspond to 2021/22 for Cherki (2003).
Sancho only started being productive in 2018/19, he's from 2000 generation, which once again would correspond to 2021/2022 for Cherki.
Foden started out at 18.
And he plays in the club that produces the most chances per games over the past few years.
None of the players you've named were scoring and assisting at his age.
And talent isn't summed up by statistics, his technical level is superior to theirs and only Dembele is two-footed out of these three players.
But you're ignoring the fact that age is not as relevant as experience. Cherki is as experienced (actually more) now as Dembele was when he was producing for Rennes or Sancho for Dortmund. I concede age matters a bit, but nowhere near as much as experience (especially when we're only talking about one year difference). Dominating youth competitions means absolutely nothing, just ask Ravel Morrison. Benzema was probably the least talented of the generation of 87 in Nasri, Ben Arfa, and wound up undisputably the greater player out of them all. Talent is an overrated aspect of a player in deciding where they will be in world football.
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I disagree here, experience matters less than age when you are still growing physically, just look at Gouiri who had even less experience than Cherki in professional football, he's got 15 goals 6 assists in all comps for his 1st pro season, if he was 17 he wouldn't be able to do that.
Mbappe at 17 vs Mbappe at 18 is another example.
Lyon also plays 1 game per week this season due to no Europe which leads to the same XI playing every game and Garcia is known for making very late subs and trying to clinge on to goal leads.
Also Bundesliga is very youth friendly both in playtime and goalscoring opportunity. Ton of space and high blocks
Agreed about the Bundesliga, it always amuses me when people consider it a tougher league for offensive players than Ligue 1.
As far as age, everybody is different. Mbappe at 16-17 wasn't as physically ready as he became at 18-19, I expect Cherki to improve a year from now for sure, but I don't think the difference will be as drastic as with a guy like Mbappe because Cherki is already built with a stronger base IMO than Mbappe at the same age. That's why, in his case, I consider the experience he's already acquired as a bigger factor than the fact he's 17 when we compare him to 18 years old, but we can disagree on that.
Now, it's possible he has a sudden growth spurt or puts on a lot more muscle, where he has to adjust to a new body etc, and once he's past adapting, it adds a brand new dimension to his game, but I don't think we'll see a big change physically from him, nor do I think he really needs it. I just think he needs more experience, let the game slow down for him a bit, and see what he does from there.
The only point I'm arguing, and I think you and I went back and forth on this a year or so ago, is that his talent and what he's shown at youth level will not necessarily translate to the pro-level. He's far from a sure thing, and for the level of talent that he has been evaluated as, I think he's been a bit disappointing so far this season, I'm curious what you think of him this season so far and if you expected more, less, or just about what we're seeing? I admit, I'm being incredibly harsh in my evaluation of a 17 years old, but it's really a testament of his talent that I think he should be judged harsher than most 17 years old because his talent and ability is undeniable.
Good reply but I, surprised by these stats, his style of play and dribbling looks so rough even compared to the likes of Sancho and Foden let alone Neymar, even in that clip you posted there was a lot of ricochets, a lot of the ball bouncing up and down and onto the opponents leg then him still emerging with the ball.
Naturally his technique doesn’t look as clean when it comes to dribbling and that’s even in comparison to a player like Traore, saying that you can’t argue with those stats and he is obviously already one of the better dribblers around even at his precarious age. He reminds me of Tevez mostly.
Saka is also on the level of Dembele Foden and Sancho btw, he probably has the best decision making out the lot, Dembele with Sakas brain would be up there with the best players in the world. That’s where Saka shines. he is decent paced can dribble and shoot or cross with both feet, but his brain is far and away from most players.
Things I see in that video, beyond some very impressive dribbling ability.
0:13 - Poorly directed pass on the break, doesn't hit the middle player who could be best poised to lead the break, ends up behind the most advanced player, slowing things down and helping the defense recover.
0:22 - Great dribbling but then takes a very low percentage shot from a bad angle with defenders in his way while there is a (narrow) opportunity to pass to a wide open man at the far post.
0:43 - Again passes behind the other player, slowing the momentum of the move, once he gets the return ball in space he has a chance to quickly play the ball to the striker for a possible chance but instead focuses on dribbling back and forth, allowing the defense to pick up the attackers and pack the six yard box.
Dribbling is only a small part of being a great player and part of being a "great dribbler" is knowing that a killer pass is almost always preferable.
The stats are worthless anyway because nearly all his appearances are as a sub. Coming on later in the game when defenders are tired advantages a dribbler significantly.
He’s a hugely gifted young player but you can’t deduce anything from his stats yet.
He’s a hugely gifted young player but you can’t deduce anything from his stats yet.
Alien indeed. Too easy for him.
I'm getting confused with the lad who used to play for Chelsea I think.