I think it might have only been 1 or 2, in fairness....right?How are some of you saying he reminds you of Zidane and Ronaldinho
Rayan Cherki
- Thread starter Berbaclass
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He's probably not better than Amad.
Not his best game but I think he did well. He created a couple of chances for Lacazette and we struggled to get the ball of him. For those wanting Cunha, his release fee is 60m. We're not getting a striker and Cunha, it will be one or the other. I think for 25m, Cherki is a low risk signing plus he is only 21. He can rotate with Bruno, go to 10 when Bruno gets shifted to midfield. My only doubt with him is the lack of intensity in his play, would that suit Amorim or can Amorim work around it. I still think we should consider him but he may go elsewhere.
Aggressive workhorse like Cunha? The guy who spends the most time walking out of all Premier league players?
I didn't think last night was conclusive. He was underwhelming definitely but there were certainly flashes there.
Seen this logic brought in a few times and I'm not sure it works. If he is available for such a low transfer fee relative to his worth (I'm not sure it's clear that this is the case) then loads of teams will be interested. If loads of teams are interested then he's gonna go with one who is either giving him wages high enough that a £20m sale scenario wouldn't be feasible or a signing on fee large enough that it's not a £25m purchase at all.
Weird. Must be some sort of Mandela Effect, as I'm sure I've seen plenty of exmples of him tracking back and winning the ball in midfield.Aggressive workhorse like Cunha? The guy who spends the most time walking out of all Premier league players?
Maybe he also ranks well in high intensity runs to balance it out? Either way, thats a pretty damning statistic.
Nope, he’s very much an archetypical lazy genius. To be fair, he carries Wolves pretty much on his own and it’s normal for a team like that to compensate for defensive shortcomings of their leader if he provides in other areas (and he absolutely does). So it’s possible that he’ll be working harder in a different, better team where he’s not responsible for everything. But it’s very much a hypothetical and his work rate is the one (and pretty much only) big argument against signing him at this point.
The whole ‘Cherki wouldn’t survive the Prem’ talk is tired, man. He’s 20, oozes creativity, and already has more natural talent than most of United’s current attackers. He’s got that unpredictability we’re seriously lacking — someone who can actually make things happen out of nothing.
This season alone, he’s completed over 2.5 dribbles per 90, averages nearly 3 key passes per game, and has created more big chances than most of our entire frontline. Against United in the Europa League, he completed 90% of his passes, won 23 duels, and scored the equalizer — that’s not passive football. That’s a baller with intent.
Yeah, maybe he’s not the most intense player yet, but he’s still learning and has time to adapt. The physicality stuff is overhyped anyway — if Odegaard, Mahrez, even Bruno could adapt, why not Cherki? And if we can get him for like £25m, that’s a smart gamble. Low risk, massive upside.
You don’t pass on that kind of talent just because he isn’t Premier League-ready on day one. It’s not like we’ve got a surplus of creative ballers right now.
This season alone, he’s completed over 2.5 dribbles per 90, averages nearly 3 key passes per game, and has created more big chances than most of our entire frontline. Against United in the Europa League, he completed 90% of his passes, won 23 duels, and scored the equalizer — that’s not passive football. That’s a baller with intent.
Yeah, maybe he’s not the most intense player yet, but he’s still learning and has time to adapt. The physicality stuff is overhyped anyway — if Odegaard, Mahrez, even Bruno could adapt, why not Cherki? And if we can get him for like £25m, that’s a smart gamble. Low risk, massive upside.
You don’t pass on that kind of talent just because he isn’t Premier League-ready on day one. It’s not like we’ve got a surplus of creative ballers right now.
Agreed. People forget about guys like Dimitri Payet, who wasn't athletic, had no defensive workrate yet balled out in the league for a year or two. I think Cherki can manage in the EPL, and as an option at 10, would help with the creativity we desperately lack.
You can add Bernardo and David Silva into that as well. Both played Centre Mid for title winning teams and weren't exactly dominant physical specimens
He was played out of position last night due to Lyon's wingers being injured. He's a central player through and through.
He was average and has been a cheeky cnut post match.
Knee jerk - he's shit and I don't want
Knee jerk - he's shit and I don't want
I'll like to see his defensive stat from his time at athletico. Maybe he gets to not run because he's to Wolves what Messi was to Barca.
It’s one person actually.How are some of you saying he reminds you of Zidane and Ronaldinho
It's a rather typical Cherkiesque performance that he put on yesterday. For how disappointing he may have looked, he is the player between the two teams who made the biggest number of key passes and successful take ons. He also the one who got engaged in the highest number of ground duels. And, well, he scored the late equalizer. The few opportunities that he wasted by going for one more touch or refusing the easy pass to try something riskier was also very characteristic. But that comes with the whole package: high risks for high rewards.
He is not the type of player who will constantly boss the game, dictating the tempo and so forth. But he will endlessly try to create something, sometimes out of nothing (the team was apathetic last night). When it doesn't work, it is highly frustrating. But, this season at least, it often works.
Those who did not like him yesterday would probably have hard times enjoying him playing for their team, I reckon.
He is not the type of player who will constantly boss the game, dictating the tempo and so forth. But he will endlessly try to create something, sometimes out of nothing (the team was apathetic last night). When it doesn't work, it is highly frustrating. But, this season at least, it often works.
Those who did not like him yesterday would probably have hard times enjoying him playing for their team, I reckon.
Hard to say how big the competition is for him at the moment. At this point his talent can't be disputed, but there will be question marks about whether that translates into consistent performances in a different environment/set-up. Reports of attitude issues and defensive contributions could keep competition in check. Or if he dreams about playing for a specific club, that could also negate the competitive aspect of a potential deal. Nothing indicating that he has a strong preference for United, so if this deal actually would come through at that price, it's a pretty strong indication that others are finding too many red flags..
Then he won't suit us
I don't think that's fair at all. He gets through quite a lot more defensive actions than someone like Garnacho for example, who for all his faults, isn't really a lazy player.
Maybe he does so in 'bursts', hence the walking stats, but I've seen him tracking back into midfield and winning the ball for Wolves plenty of times while watching them. He's not Mbappe defensively.
.ozil
I wasn't massively impressed TBH a low price tag is tempting but then supposedly he is a bit of a toxic presence, strikes me as a player a mid to lower side prem team would sign and he would look brilliant in patches but not good enough for the top tier
It's not serious nitpicking. Not ending a 3 vs 2 counter with at least a shot on goal is unacceptable in under 16 football never mind Professional football.
Almada and Mikautadze were more impressive.
Is that enough? do we need another cheap youngster with potential, Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Amad, Angel, Yoro, Obi etc. How many of these are at the levels we have expected them to get to. How many were putting up numbers in different leagues that attracted us to them but hasnt translated to the premier league.
We havent got a surplus of creative ballers, thats why we need to sign some that are ready to go now, take some pressure off the others and let them relax abit.
Quite. Bruno wasn't even the correct pass. Garnacho should slip Zirkzee in, and Zirkzee then gets to pick between sliding it across for Bruno to tap in, cutting it to Garnacho to tap in, or if he's not blocked off, a very easy shooting chance himself. Lyon literally cannot block all three options. These situations are like penalties; you are absolutely expected to score from them at every level of football.
On Cherki: it's not a fallacy to question his physicality. I've seen Odegaard, Mahrez, Bruno, Bernardo, Silva and Ozil mentioned above as examples of players without physicality who excelled. This misses the point - no one is talking about Cherki's physical strength or raw pace. It's about dynamism and having an engine.
- Bruno, Bernardo and Odegaard all came to the PL already with excellent work rate, and it continues to be a key element of all of their game. Irrelevant comparison.
- Mahrez is a closer fit but 1) he was a winger so already had a more running-focussed game than Cherki currently does and 2) he took a few years to get the knack of PL football for precisely this reason! He was 25 when he started to really score and assist for Leicester in their title-winning season. Just 4 goals in 34 or something I think the season before that.
- Ozil is the best comparison. And yes, he was incredible for Arsenal because he's an incredible player, who had just moved from being the key playmaker for the biggest club in the world. But he was dogged by the workrate issue throughout his Arsenal spell. Whenever he was out of form, pundits and gooners used it as a stick to beat him with, and there was something to it. If even a player as generational as a playmaker as Ozil was hurt in the PL by his physicality, we should take that seriously with Cherki.
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Exactly. That was unacceptable in every way. A 3 vs 2 counter given away so easily is shocking. In under 16 football if a situation like that doesn't end up in a shot on goal players are getting hooked and the coach is going crazy. Never mind in the Europa league for Manchester United.
I reckon Ruben thought the same because he got hooked shortly after that.
Average performance from him. Played out of position because of Nuamah and Fofana being unavailable. Still when you look at it pretty much everything he did was very clean. Most dribbles completed, most key passes as well.
Also can't agree with the Mikautadze praise I've seen on this thread. I personally thought he was being very selfish and probably wanted to score too much because this is a high caliber game. Ruined plenty of attacking movements because he wouldn't pass the ball.
Or it's because he's spent a high % of the season playing as a makeshift striker for a side that doesn't press or dominate possession, because his other defensive metrics are most certainly not lazy.
Cunha: Tackles 32, Interceptions 16, Possession won 110, blocks 1, clearances 18. Total ground duels 291, won 139. Win % 47.7
Garnacho: Tackles 26, Interceptions 10, Possession won 99, blocks 0, clearances 9. Total ground duels 195, won 83, win % 42.6
Hojlund: Tackles 3, interceptions 1, possession won 27, blocks 0, clearances 5. Total ground duels 93, won 34. Win % 36.6
Delap: Tackles 10, interceptions 2, possession won 55, blocks 0, clearances 26. Total ground duels 246, won 88. Win % 35.7.
Luis Diaz: Tackles, 28, interceptions 6, possession won 89, blocks 0, clearances 7. Total ground duels 249, won 100. Win % 40.2,
For someone whose "archetypical lazy" he ends up making a lot more defensive contributions than apparent workhorses.
Have wondered where this narrative he had a bad game came from. He was clean, tidy and constantly probing in a team without much ability to progress cohesively. It wasn't a performance for the ages, but it certainly wasn't bad, and with better players on the end of what he was providing, there would be a different tone to posts.
I think people were expecting to see prime Ronaldinho out there by the sound of things.
People are weird. He consistently opened things up while playing fairly conservatively, he didn't try to force anything and generally picked the correct options.
Agreed, thought he looked good. You could clearly see his strengths, even though he was playing out of position slightly.
The one thing I thought he clearly needed to improve was his urgency. Very languid player, which is understandable when you're that much better technically than 95% of the players you come up against.
If he could be coached to move up a gear or two while retaining that technique and creativity, he'd be an absolute machine.
I hope we really go for his signature this Summer. Bruno / Amad / Cherki / Mount & Others would suddenly look very tasty as options in the #10.
Do we need him aswell as Amad? I expect Amads numbers to increase when we have a proper goalscorer. Also Cunha will help out with goals and assists.
Indeed, and you'd think logic would suggest if that's him playing contained and out of position, there should be a lot more to come from him playing in his actual position and fully expressing himself.
The game added to his bow, not subtracted from it. A guy who can knit play without much fuss and open teams up with minimal touches is worth his weight in gold.
So by the numbers yes he does a little bit of defensive work. Not loads but some. He averages 1.3 tackles and 0.9 interceptions per 90 mins compared to
for example Zirkzee 0.9 tackles and 0.4 interceptions per 90
or closer Garnacho 1.3 tackles and 0.5 interceptions per 90
Agree with you. Let’s not forget he actually scored as well which has been completely disregarded.
Mikautadze looked busier on the night but Cherki didn't play badly, even if he was a bit quiet. You can see he isn't afraid to receive the ball and was pretty smooth and tidy whenever it did come to him. If you had him and Amad playing together on the same side, we might actually be able to produce some decent football and that inside right role should suit him quite nicely.
I would still go for him if there's any chance to make it happen. The talent is obvious and you don't often get good young players at the price point Cherki is supposedly available for.
I would still go for him if there's any chance to make it happen. The talent is obvious and you don't often get good young players at the price point Cherki is supposedly available for.
He had 4 successful dribbles and 4 key passes even if he doesnt score the goal at the end of the game. He may not have felt devestating particularly because Lyon's finishing was poor but those are effective numbers. He averages 2.3 successful dribbles and 3.3 key passes in the French league so he was more effective against us... He was also dispossessed 2 times and had 3 unsafe touches, so despite the high number of 8 good outcomes, and 3 shots with 1 on target he also had 5 poor outcomes
The only issue that I have with him is that I don't think that he can work within any context, I think that he won't be able to make the step up if he isn't playing for a team that focuses on movement, possession and technical proficiency.
Game compared to Brunos..
He had a poor game by his high standards.
He had a poor game by his high standards.
Cherki is quite clearly an immensely talented playmaker. Not sure though whether him and Bruno aren't a bit too similar to play in one starting 11.
Bruno would have scored an hattrick against us if he played for Lyon