RB Leipzig

[Gandalf Greyhame]

They could do with a new thread. Quoting my post in the Embolo thread:

RB Leipzig, the club also in for Embolo, have an interesting story.

They were basically founded in Leipzig in 2009 by Red Bull, by buying out the playing license of a fifth division side. Red Bull, being advised by Franz Beckenbauer, saw great footballing potential in the Leipzig, Saxony region. The city had a rich history in football, being the meeting place for the founding of the DFB and the home of the first German national football champion, VfB Leipzig. But their current clubs were in a legal and financial mess, and no team from the city had played in the Bundesliga since 1994, and no team had played in a professional league since 1998. They had a large population of top-level football hungry fans, great connectivity, no competition and proper infrastructure - the Zentralstadion was a former 2006 FIFA World Cup venue and the second largest football stadium in East Germany. Today, RB Leipzig's stadium, the Red Bull Arena, has a capacity of 43,000.

Initially, Red Bull had tried, multiple times, to take over an already established club in the area, but kept running into legal or fanbase issues, so they gave up that approach and decided to start a new club. So they bought over the playing license of tiny little SSV Markranstädt, a fifth division side, and established a new club instead, with the goal of climbing up to the Bundesliga within 8 years.

In '09-'10, RBL won the League V and were promoted.
In '12-'13, RBL had an 'Invincibles' season in League IV, and were promoted.
In '13-'14, RBL finished runners up in League III, and were promoted.
In '15-'16, RBL finsihed runners up in League II, and were promoted to the Bundesliga.

After such heavy investment, and such a meteoric rise in playing level, RBL are hungry for new players, have the stadium for it, the fanbase, and all the Red Bull money.
I'll be interested in how they fare in the Bundesliga. They've already secured the services of Timo Werner.

@Balu @Sphaero - any idea if they can break into the top 10 the Bundesliga this season?

Edit: Our Resident RBL fanbase is growing -
1. @Akash
2. @Skills
3. @RU Devil
4. @The BlackGaijin
5. @VanGaalEra
6. @SwansonsTache
7. @The Man Himself

 

[Scorpy]

Just a little correction - they finished as runners-up in the 2nd Bundesliga last season - 5 points behind Freiburg.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Just a little correction - they finished as runners-up in the 2nd Bundesliga last season - 5 points behind Freiburg.

Ah, thanks. I'll correct that. Should have been more careful. :P

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Most hated club in Germany by some distance. There's been some sort of trouble everywhere they've played. Even friendlies had to be cancelled because the fans didn't want to play them. And now they've been drawn against Dynamo Dresden (Leipzig and Dresden are the two major cities in Saxony with Dresden being the capital) in the first round of the German cup. Don't know anyone who's particularly happy about this. But make no mistake, they will go all the way. Expect them to be playing CL football within five years.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Most hated club in Germany by some distance. There's been some sort of trouble everywhere they've played. Even friendlies had to be cancelled because the fans didn't want to play them. And now they've been drawn against Dynamo Dresden (Leipzig and Dresden are the two major cities in Saxony with Dresden being the capital) in the first round of the German cup. Don't know anyone who's particularly happy about this. But make no mistake, they will go all the way. Expect them to be playing CL football within five years.

Whose fans? Are the folks at Leipzig not happy?
Also, hated because of their City/PSG-esque rise, I assume? And why do you think they'll go all the way?

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Whose fans? Are the folks at Leipzig not happy?
Also, hated because of their City/PSG-esque rise, I assume? And why do you think they'll go all the way?

Basically fan groups urged their club (Union Berlin is the one example I can think of) to call off a pre-arranged friendly match as it would give RB the recognition they don't deserve. And the club complied.

Regarding the upcoming cup match: Dynamo supporters are calling it (almost unanimously) the worst possible draw. Noone wants them, noone likes them. And judging from skimming through Leipzig forums, they aren't happy either. The match also seems predestined for crowd trouble for a variety of reason: the general hate for RB, the Dresden-Leipzig rivalry which has been lying dormant for years and also that Dynamo Dresden has a little bit of a reputation.

Comparison with City and PSG are apt but Leipzig is even more extreme as they really have no history whatsoever. Personally I don't have such a big problem with them as others because I don't like this elitism among football fans that you are only allowed to be succesful if you've been around for 100 years. But then again they are named after a fecking energy drink! So it isn't exactly easy to like them.

They will go to the very top as their financial backing is just too big not to. Back when they were playing in the 4th division they could attract players from the 2nd Bundesliga because they could offer higher wages. Also Mateschitz (the billionaire behind Red Bull) doesn't do half-baked investments and won't rest until RB Leipzig is playing in the Champions League.

 

[Lagger]

Whose fans? Are the folks at Leipzig not happy?
Also, hated because of their City/PSG-esque rise, I assume? And why do you think they'll go all the way?

Because money buys CL spots. They won't win it, but they'll steal away the CL spot from teams that don't have literally unlimited resources with RB not even intending to make money off them. It's a giant marketing campaign, profit is made by selling soft drinks that taste like bubble gum.

Why the hate? Because their income isn't based on their merit. Where the rest of football at least pretends that merits = money in some sense, RB doesn't even care about that. He'll pump billions into the team and bludgeon them to the CL eventually simply based on the marketing value they could have in the CL instead of any accomplishment they might have earned for themselves.

So in that sense, this is even worse than City or PSG, where you have some billionaire who's actually interested in football and glory. These guys are interested in neither, they only want to make this a successful marketing run.

 

[Nanook]

but they'll steal away the CL spot from teams that don't have literally unlimited resources with RB

So the likes of Wolfsburg and Leverkusen? Neither of those teams are in a position to complain that a large company is funding a rival team.

 

[Big Andy]

Basically fan groups urged their club (Union Berlin is the one example I can think of) to call off a pre-arranged friendly match as it would give RB the recognition they don't deserve. And the club complied.

Union Berlin are my other German team now, after Wolfsburg...cracking stadium, great atmosphere, and the fans are great...

 

[Glanville95]

RB Leipzig... Who the feck are they?

 

[Pagh Wraith]

So the likes of Wolfsburg and Leverkusen? Neither of those teams are in a position to complain that a large company is funding a rival team.

These two aren't exactly popular either. But they've been around for ages so are more or less accepted. My guess it the same thing will happen with RB. Still funny when Wolfsburg turn up with 100 away fans at Bundesliga matches. You're right though that it would be quite hypocritical of them to complain about Leipzig.

 

[Varun]

Fwiw, which is feck all, I took them to consecutive promotions to the Bundesliga and won the title and CL in the first year up there in FM15. Yusuff Poulsen was my star. Pacy as feck, scored a lot of goals. Is he still at Leipzig?

On a more serious note, it'd easy to see why they're hated. They've bought their way to div 1 and knowing Red Bull, this is just the start. They have the financial resources, it's just about finding the right management and they'll be in the CL in a very short time.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Comparison with City and PSG are apt but Leipzig is even more extreme as they really have no history whatsoever. Personally I don't have such a big problem with them as others because I don't like this elitism among football fans that you are only allowed to be succesful if you've been around for 100 years. But then again they are named after a fecking energy drink! So it isn't exactly easy to like them..

Personally I think is a major misconception about the opposition to City/PSG etc. I know a lad who's always saying 'you just hate City because they've stopped United winning everything', which isn't the case at all.

If a club emerges organically, like a Leicester, then fair play - as a United fan I have no problem with that and was rooting for them towards the end of the season. The same goes for the emergence of West Ham, Everton and Southampton as top-six clubs, and, much as I hope Liverpool never win the league again, I won't begrudge them the title if/when they eventually get over the line.

City's story is completely different. Their emergence has been completely artificial, and they're not playing by the same rules as everybody else. To me it's akin to an athlete on steroids. Sounds like RB Leipzig are the same.

I'm not an elitist fan, and I'm sure the other City/PSG/Leipzig haters aren't either. It's a simple issue with how they've achieved their recent success.

 

[Nighteyes]

Interesting.

I've just decided I'm going to support RB Leipzig from now on when I watch the bundesliga.

 

[Nanook]

Personally I think is a major misconception about the opposition to City/PSG etc. I know a lad who's always saying 'you just hate City because they've stopped United winning everything', which isn't the case at all.

If a club emerges organically, like a Leicester, then fair play - as a United fan I have no problem with that and was rooting for them towards the end of the season. The same goes for the emergence of West Ham, Everton and Southampton as top-six clubs, and, much as I hope Liverpool never win the league again, I won't begrudge them the title if/when they eventually get over the line.

City's story is completely different. Their emergence has been completely artificial, and they're not playing by the same rules as everybody else. To me it's akin to an athlete on steroids. Sounds like RB Leipzig are the same.

I'm not an elitist fan, and I'm sure the other City/PSG/Leipzig haters aren't either. It's a simple issue with how they've achieved their recent success.

European football has a parity problem, teams can no longer "emerge organically" as the difference in revenue is just too big. Leicester after winning the league and qualifying for the CL will probably make around £180m next season, Liverpool's revenue without any European football will be more than £300m, ours will be over £500m. Leicester's chances of competing with the big teams over 3 or 4 years is practically zero.

I don't begrudge City's success whatsoever, they won the lottery so good for them. City and Chelsea's takeover has been fantastic for the Premier League. Let's not forgot we were very fortunate to experience success early in the Premier League, if United's performances in the 70s were swapped with the 90s who knows where we would be now.

 

[Skills]

This is my German team now, as a show of gratitude for the all-nighters Red Bull has got me through during exam season.

Red Bull for life.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Interesting.

I've just decided I'm going to support RB Leipzig from now on when I watch the bundesliga.

This is my German team now, as a show of gratitude for the all-nighters Red Bull has got me through during exam season.

Red Bull for life.

Red Bull is my lifeline during exams, too. I kinda dislike their steamrolling progress, though.

We loathe City fans who support the club after just getting to know that City have loads of money and have just bought KDB, and because they like travelling with Etihad. We mock such supporters and despise the fact that they are swelling up an 'undeserved' fanbase. That's probably how Germans will look at Leipzig fans now, at least the non-local ones.

Nah, my German club remains Dortmund. They do things the right way.

 

[Nighteyes]

I don't loathe City. I don't like them but it has nothing to do with their lottery, which while being immensely annoying, is just our bad luck at the end of the day.

I hope Dortmund get relegated.

 

[slig]

RB is here in my city, they are disgusting. ok, since the revolution we got no football in Bundesliga anymore (exeptional few years of VfB Leipzig and Cottbus) , cause west-germany stealed everything, also east german clubs didnt know anything how to deal with the new order. Many people here dont like RB, but they like the fact that now we got bundesliga football again. But i have to say, in terms of cleverness it was the best decision this fecking company could do, great city and a whole region starving for Bundelisga football, a big stadium, university proofen youth work in sports since the GDR.
But it is like it is: RB sucks.
CHEMIE LEIPZIG forever!

 

[do.ob]

So the likes of Wolfsburg and Leverkusen? Neither of those teams are in a position to complain that a large company is funding a rival team.

Bayer 04 were founded in 1904 as a sports and gymnastics club for company workers. They are an officially allowed exception to the 50+1 rule because of that history, it's sort of similar with Wolfsburg though they don't go as far back and still they aren't exactly liked and struggle with support despite their success on the pitch. RB however doesn't even have such an excepetion status (afaik a person/company has to have some sort of connection with the club for at least 20 years in order to get it), they just used grey areas, like buying into a lower league club and afaik not taking any new club members in order to fully control the club.


It's different in England because you guys don't have an equivalent to 50+1 and thus everyone is playing by the same rules, so I wouldn't compare it to City or Chelsea.

 

[aikay]

Managing them currently on fm16. Haven't enjoyed managing a team so much on FM for a long time. So I'm probably going to go all hipster and support them in real life as well.


Where do I sign up?

 

[Pyroblazer]

Hate them too like I hate Salzburg here in Austria, will be interesting how they will do in the Bundesliga this year. They signed Keita from Salzburg this week, who has been the best player in Austria last year. Still only 21 years old and I think he can play a role in a top league like Mane and Kampl did.
They will be up there with the best teams in the future in Germany, Red Bull does no half-things and have been succesful in every sport where they "created" a team so far. (Austrian football, Austrian Ice Hockey, Formula One,...).

 

[Sarni]

RB is here in my city, they are disgusting. ok, since the revolution we got no football in Bundesliga anymore (exeptional few years of VfB Leipzig and Cottbus) , cause west-germany stealed everything, also east german clubs didnt know anything how to deal with the new order. Many people here dont like RB, but they like the fact that now we got bundesliga football again. But i have to say, in terms of cleverness it was the best decision this fecking company could do, great city and a whole region starving for Bundelisga football, a big stadium, university proofen youth work in sports since the GDR.
But it is like it is: RB sucks.
CHEMIE LEIPZIG forever!

Yep from a strictly pragmatic business perspective it was a terrific decision to set up a club in Leipzig. There are very few areas in Europe where you have a city as large as that without a top tier competitive sport, people are bound to be drawn in by a project like this.

 

[slig]

Managing them currently on fm16. Haven't enjoyed managing a team so much on FM for a long time. So I'm probably going to go all hipster and support them in real life as well.


Where do I sign up?

Buy some cans of this sickly sweet soup and feel like you supported them ^^

 

[sun_tzu]

Has FFP been officially binned or would they face sanctions if they qualify for Europe?

 

[Sarni]

Has FFP been officially binned or would they face sanctions if they qualify for Europe?

They're from Germany, FFP will apply to them. It only does not apply if you're from France or called Man City. If you're a team nobody's ever heard of, it applies to you although with the amount of money Leipzig will have it might stop applying to them soon too.

 

[do.ob]

I'm not sure how quickly they will rise though. It took them two years to make it through the second division, despite spending astronomical sums compared to the rest of the league and even then their points tally wasn't that impressive.
And they seem very adamant about only signing young players and keeping an eye on their wage structure. Which is probably a very smart strategy for mid term growth but doesn't sound like they will challenge top 4 within the next like 3 years, because it would take silly money to get close to Dortmund/Bayen, Leverkusen are looking like they might challenge Dortmund if they have a good season and the latter don't, Gladbach isn't badly run either and Schalke finally seem to have the club's management sorted.

 

[slig]

I'm not sure how quickly they will rise though. It took them two years to make it through the second division, despite spending astronomical sums compared to the rest of the league and even then their points tally wasn't that impressive.
And they seem very adamant about only signing long players and keeping an eye on their wage structure. Which is probably a very smart strategy for mid term growth but doesn't sound like they will challenge top 4 within the next like 3 years, because it would take silly money to get close to Dortmund/Bayen, Leverkusen are looking like they might challenge Dortmund if they have a good season and the latter don't, Gladbach isn't badly run either and Schalke finally seem to have the club's management sorted.

this. hope they will stuck between relegation and the middle for decades.

 

[MounchesterUtd]

Two part question:

a) How do German footy fans, outside of Bayern and the bigger BL clubs, regard Bayern's dominance? Do they take an 'anyone but Bayern' approach similar to Spain/England/Italy with regards to Barca/RM/United/Juve? - Kinda off topic, my bad

b) Should RB Leipzig continue their ascent and become a legitimate contender, do you think their success will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air or will the backlash continue?

 

[do.ob]

Two part question:

a) How do German footy fans, outside of Bayern and the bigger BL clubs, regard Bayern's dominance? Do they take an 'anyone but Bayern' approach similar to Spain/England/Italy with regards to Barca/RM/United/Juve? - Kinda off topic, my bad

b) Should RB Leipzig continue their ascent and become a legitimate contender, do you think their success will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air or will the backlash continue?

a)I think Bayern polarize a lot (especially with people like Hoeneß and Rummenigge), so there are probably a lot of fans who see it as a lesser evil when another team has a period of success



b)Let me put it this way: Leverkusen have been in the Bundesliga since 1979, they won an UEFA Cup, made it a CL Final and they finished second several times, they are also more or less the third best team since joining the league (probably depending how you factor in the 2 point rule times..). They also stand for young and technical teams and among others they brought Lucio, Ze Roberto, Emerson and Bertatov to Bundesliga. They aim for good football and don't give the impression that the company shits money right into their war chest.
Yet they have one of the smallest stadiums in the league and their TV audiences are often abyssmal. Leipzig might do a bit better, since Eastern Germany is void of any decent football club, but I doubt they'll find much acceptance in other parts.

.

 

[slig]

Two part question:

a) How do German footy fans, outside of Bayern and the bigger BL clubs, regard Bayern's dominance? Do they take an 'anyone but Bayern' approach similar to Spain/England/Italy with regards to Barca/RM/United/Juve? - Kinda off topic, my bad

b) Should RB Leipzig continue their ascent and become a legitimate contender, do you think their success will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air or will the backlash continue?

a) Everyone except Buy€rn fans hates them, especially for their arrogance which is based on their success. A lot of people respect them for their good work over decades but their arrogance which come from that is something else. Also they got a lot of hatred cause of their "methodes" of constantly trying to weaken their rivals, (also in the past Bremen,Stuttgart,etc..) which for example Höness never denied.

b) No. For many reasons. Its an illegal merchandise construction even when its based longtermly with some little positive effects (they got a good youth work for example). "Fresh Air" is given by fantasticly runed clubs like Mainz or Augsburg (or Freiburg, welcome back again!) and would be given if Buy€rn dont win the cup like in the last years. And i think if Leverkusen,Schalke and Gladbach would make a step to the level of their spanish counterparts, that would be fresh air to a lot of people. Nobody needs RB in the Bundesliga for fresh air. For people here in the city its fresh air cause now they can watch for the first time since 20 years back Bundesliga Football. But fresh air for the league? No.

 

[RU Devil]

Being a NY Red Bull fan, i'm guess i'll be rooting for RBL as well.

Having seen expansion in various sports leagues in the US, I'm not fazed by a newbie team horning in on the glory. Over the last 15 years, we've seen the Diamondbacks, Marlins, Heat, Devils, & assorted relocated teams compete & win titles.

Isn't some of the RBL hate due to some political views as well?

 

[do.ob]

I don't think Bundesliga and US Sports are comparable.

 

[Sarni]

I'm not sure how quickly they will rise though. It took them two years to make it through the second division, despite spending astronomical sums compared to the rest of the league and even then their points tally wasn't that impressive.
And they seem very adamant about only signing young players and keeping an eye on their wage structure. Which is probably a very smart strategy for mid term growth but doesn't sound like they will challenge top 4 within the next like 3 years, because it would take silly money to get close to Dortmund/Bayen, Leverkusen are looking like they might challenge Dortmund if they have a good season and the latter don't, Gladbach isn't badly run either and Schalke finally seem to have the club's management sorted.

I agree. Germany have a lot of sides that I like to call upper mid-table, i.e. they're not quite good enough to put up a title challenge in a league where a top team (Bayern) is present but are good enough to either consistently or occasionally fight for a Champions League position - Leverkusen, Schalke, Wolfsburg, Gladbach all fall into that bracket and teams like Mainz, Hertha etc. have those seasons where they are playing well too. Even clubs like Eintracht, Koln and HSV with their fan bases have potential to move up the table too. The potential of German football is huge especially with the amount of domestic talent they've had in the last 10 years or so.

 

[NoLogo]

RB Leipzig... Who the feck are they?

A shit plastic club that no one gives a fart about.

 

[NoLogo]

a) How do German footy fans, outside of Bayern and the bigger BL clubs, regard Bayern's dominance? Do they take an 'anyone but Bayern' approach similar to Spain/England/Italy with regards to Barca/RM/United/Juve? - Kinda off topic, my bad

Yes. Most fans outside of supporting their teams pretty much want to see anyone but Bayern win the leauge.

b) Should RB Leipzig continue their ascent and become a legitimate contender, do you think their success will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air or will the backlash continue?

No. Non of the traditional teams fans will welcome them, they were already the most hated team in the third and second league. Should Mateschitz ever think about setting foot in a Bundesliga stadion he should be prepared to get insulted for 90 minutes, pretty much what happens to Dietmar Hopp at every game. I think Liepzig will pretty fast climb the ladder as the most hated club in Germany and having any kind of success want change that.

 

[::sonny::]

Great club

 

[Oyibo]

I saw a documentary on this about 3-5 years ago, when they were pretty much starting off. Their rise was predicted then.

I also recall some hostility from local rival fans regarding it being a man-made creation.. On reading some German fans' opinions
on this thread, it all makes sense now....

 

[ctp]

Two part question:

a) How do German footy fans, outside of Bayern and the bigger BL clubs, regard Bayern's dominance? Do they take an 'anyone but Bayern' approach similar to Spain/England/Italy with regards to Barca/RM/United/Juve? - Kinda off topic, my bad

b) Should RB Leipzig continue their ascent and become a legitimate contender, do you think their success will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air or will the backlash continue?

a) I'm honestly not too fussed. I support Mainz and unless we pull a Leicester I don't really care who wins the league. Admittedly, I like this current Dortmund side more than Bayern - in part because they're employing our former managers - but I've enjoyed watching Pep's Bayern over the last few years as well.

b) RB Leipzig will be hated throughout the country for a long time, no matter how successful they are. The exception might be East Germany, as they haven't had a top division football club in years, so there's a bit of an untapped market for RB.

 

[Lagger]

So the likes of Wolfsburg and Leverkusen? Neither of those teams are in a position to complain that a large company is funding a rival team.

The difference is both are actually part of the company history, originally created for their own workforce. There is an identification between club and company. RB is an artificial creation solely for the purpose of a marketing stunt.

Also, their resources are far from unlimited. Especially Volkswagon is getting tighter on the money. Both of those clubs try to follow a resemblance of proper sportsmanship conduct, whereas RB just shits on any sportsmanship and outdoes City and PSG on dubious practices. While of course still being legit and doing everything legally... just.