Real Madrid and Barcelona

Mb194dc

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RM weren't doing a new Galactico project when Covid kicked off. Just the stadium. Unlike Barcelona who did some of the worst Galactico transfers of all time, just before Covid, like Coutinho.

So how do Barcelona cut €300m a year off the wage bill. Impossible pretty much, surely?
 

stefan92

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Does Tebas have any data to backup his claim? Based on Flopper's recent histrionics, I'd think there are quite a few other clubs who are better off financially than them in Europe.
When I look at the transfers they did last summer I tend to believe this (mostly): https://www.transfermarkt.com/real-madrid/alletransfers/verein/418

No money spend on new players, just sold a bunch, earned over €100m on transfers in 20/21, and for next season so far they only signed Alaba on a free transfer.

I still don't think that Real is definitely the best run club financially, but overall they seem to be able to keep their income at a necessary level. Not like Barca...
 

Ueanuwug

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Where will they even play him ?
Hes a top lb
Decent dm
I wouldn't say he's a 400 k a week cb at all.
Alaba comes without a transfer fee. When that happens, the player usually gets extra money. Either as a one-time payment, or in recent times more commonly added to their wages. In this case it is probably the later.
 

André Dominguez

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RM weren't doing a new Galactico project when Covid kicked off. Just the stadium. Unlike Barcelona who did some of the worst Galactico transfers of all time, just before Covid, like Coutinho.

So how do Barcelona cut €300m a year off the wage bill. Impossible pretty much, surely?
Sell on lower market values for a start or try to hit a jackpot with a massive transvefr every year.

Transfers like Coutinho/Dembelé/Griezman are not really Barça type of transfers, even though they took major risks with Neymar but it paid off because he was a player that needed to prove himself. Those were the kind of transfers Barça used to do: hungry players that were not top players yet but they had the potential to reach that level and the profile to fit Barça's identity.

Their pride was hurt because Real won 3 UCL in a row and they went like mad dogs on the market to win at least once.
 

nuanced

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When I look at the transfers they did last summer I tend to believe this (mostly): https://www.transfermarkt.com/real-madrid/alletransfers/verein/418

No money spend on new players, just sold a bunch, earned over €100m on transfers in 20/21, and for next season so far they only signed Alaba on a free transfer.

I still don't think that Real is definitely the best run club financially, but overall they seem to be able to keep their income at a necessary level. Not like Barca...
Yea, Barca's management has been an absolute shambles under the previous regime. No wonder then that some fans jokingly refer Bartomeu as a mole planted by Perez.

Their transfer dealings have been impeccable under Flopper. It is the business revenues, where I think United and Bayern would still be better off than Real.
 
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nuanced

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Sell on lower market values for a start or try to hit a jackpot with a massive transvefr every year.
The players they're looking to offload are done at the top level. They've achieved their dream of playing for their dream club at the highest level, and found out that it wasn't all that much. There aren't a lot of projects in football interesting enough to meet their salary demands, while having a great enough challenge to keep them motivated. I can see Griezmann seeing out see contract, and going on a couple of loans with Barca covering a big chunk of his salary, and then returning to Atleti if Simeone is still there. Dembele has the time to resurrect his career, but there are no indications that he has any hunger to make it big.

Transfers like Coutinho/Dembelé/Griezman are not really Barça type of transfers, even though they took major risks with Neymar but it paid off because he was a player that needed to prove himself. Those were the kind of transfers Barça used to do: hungry players that were not top players yet but they had the potential to reach that level and the profile to fit Barça's identity.

Their pride was hurt because Real won 3 UCL in a row and they went like mad dogs on the market to win at least once.
IMO it was mismanagement bordering on maliciousness.

Signing Turan, Coutinho, Griezmann when you're stacked in wide areas and desperately lacking quality in midfield and for a Suarez replacement.

Signing outright mediocre players like Gomes, Digne, Mina.

Players who are past their peak and on the way down like Vidal, Pjanic,

Mismanaging talents like Arthur, Malcom, Dembele, Alcacer

They've spent top dollar for a backup keeper in Neto and Cillessen.

Crazy transfers like Paulinho, Boateng, Braithwaite!


Would someone look at that transfer history, and say that these were made by a club intending to compete for UCL?
 

JPRouve

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Yea, Barca's management has been an absolute shambles under the previous regime. No wonder then that some fans jokingly refer Bartomeu as a mole planted by Perez.

Their transfer dealings have been impeccable under Flopper. It is the business revenues, where I think United and United would still be better off than Real.
Real Madrid commercial revenues are higher than United. According to Deloitte in 2020 Real Madrid commercial revenues were around 359m€ while United commercial revenues were around 322m€.
 

André Dominguez

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The players they're looking to offload are done at the top level. They've achieved their dream of playing for their dream club at the highest level, and found out that it wasn't all that much. There aren't a lot of projects in football interesting enough to meet their salary demands, while having a great enough challenge to keep them motivated. I can see Griezmann seeing out see contract, and going on a couple of loans with Barca covering a big chunk of his salary, and then returning to Atleti if Simeone is still there. Dembele has the time to resurrect his career, but there are no indications that he has any hunger to make it big.


IMO it was mismanagement bordering on maliciousness.

Signing Turan, Coutinho, Griezmann when you're stacked in wide areas and desperately lacking quality in midfield and for a Suarez replacement.

Signing outright mediocre players like Gomes, Digne, Mina.

Players who are past their peak and on the way down like Vidal, Pjanic,

Mismanaging talents like Arthur, Malcom, Dembele, Alcacer

They've spent top dollar for a backup keeper in Neto and Cillessen.

Crazy transfers like Paulinho, Boateng, Braithwaite!


Would someone look at that transfer history, and say that these were made by a club intending to compete for UCL?
And the saddest part: millions kept rolling and in the end of the week the cantera kids have to play because the multimillion dollars singings are not performing. Why not starting with those talented kids for a start? That was one of their strengths.
 

Dave Smith

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And the saddest part: millions kept rolling and in the end of the week the cantera kids have to play because the multimillion dollars singings are not performing. Why not starting with those talented kids for a start? That was one of their strengths.
Never underestimate the vanity of rich men.
 

Daysleeper

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RM weren't doing a new Galactico project when Covid kicked off. Just the stadium. Unlike Barcelona who did some of the worst Galactico transfers of all time, just before Covid, like Coutinho.

So how do Barcelona cut €300m a year off the wage bill. Impossible pretty much, surely?
hazard was a worse signing than coutinho
 

Daysleeper

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The players they're looking to offload are done at the top level. They've achieved their dream of playing for their dream club at the highest level, and found out that it wasn't all that much. There aren't a lot of projects in football interesting enough to meet their salary demands, while having a great enough challenge to keep them motivated. I can see Griezmann seeing out see contract, and going on a couple of loans with Barca covering a big chunk of his salary, and then returning to Atleti if Simeone is still there. Dembele has the time to resurrect his career, but there are no indications that he has any hunger to make it big.


IMO it was mismanagement bordering on maliciousness.

Signing Turan, Coutinho, Griezmann when you're stacked in wide areas and desperately lacking quality in midfield and for a Suarez replacement.

Signing outright mediocre players like Gomes, Digne, Mina.

Players who are past their peak and on the way down like Vidal, Pjanic,

Mismanaging talents like Arthur, Malcom, Dembele, Alcacer

They've spent top dollar for a backup keeper in Neto and Cillessen.

Crazy transfers like Paulinho, Boateng, Braithwaite!


Would someone look at that transfer history, and say that these were made by a club intending to compete for UCL?
lots wrong here, saying they “mismanaged” talents like dembele is a bit moronic, he’s been injury prone for the most part through no fault of Barca’s. Arthur has been awful at Juve, he mismanaged himself with all his partying, nothing has improved for him since he left. Malcolm has done zilch since he got sold, and Alcacer has fallen off the face of the earth after a nice honeymoon phase with Dortmund.

paulinho was a superb signing at the time that surprised everyone that Barca went on to make a decent profit on when selling him. He was great during his time with Barca, stop having such a short memory.

Barto did a horrible job I agree as president of Barca with some poor signings, but Laporta has already done some very nice business on free transfers as they work on shedding salary. It’ll take time to undo the mess Barca made, but the team still has massive pull for players once they can get the wage structure sorted out which will be a process.
 

Daysleeper

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And the saddest part: millions kept rolling and in the end of the week the cantera kids have to play because the multimillion dollars singings are not performing. Why not starting with those talented kids for a start? That was one of their strengths.
is this a joke?! We just played more players from la masia than we have in years. If anything, the youth have become one of the few bright spots of the team
 

André Dominguez

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is this a joke?! We just played more players from la masia than we have in years. If anything, the youth have become one of the few bright spots of the team
That's what I said: the cantera kids are getting more gametime than players who cost millions.
 

Daysleeper

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Eh, until we loan out Hazard and he scores a brace against us, he is not.
brace didn’t mean anything game was decided by then, I’d say Morata knocking you out of a semi final felt worse since that was the deciding goal. and hazard is 100% a far worse signing that coutinho. Coutinho helped us win some league titles hazard helped Madrid to zilch. It’s not even debatable considering coutinho’s stats with Barca vs the broken hazard signing
 

Morty_

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brace didn’t mean anything game was decided by then, I’d say Morata knocking you out of a semi final felt worse since that was the deciding goal. and hazard is 100% a far worse signing that coutinho. Coutinho helped us win some league titles hazard helped Madrid to zilch. It’s not even debatable considering coutinho’s stats with Barca vs the broken hazard signing
What? Coutinho had nothing to do with the league titles you've won in recent years, come on, get serious here.

Until Hazard is loaned out and scores a brace against us, no, he isnt worse.
 

Daysleeper

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What? Coutinho had nothing to do with the league titles you've won in recent years, come on, get serious here.

Until Hazard is loaned out and scores a brace against us, no, he isnt worse.
Coutinho did very well in 2018 and 2019. Hazard has been an absolute disaster for a player signed for 100M and was one year away from being a free. By every metric he’s been FAR worse than coutinho. Keep pushing whatever narrative you like but hazard has been a far bigger abomination of a signing than anything Barca has done. Hazard has been woeful constantly. This is common sense
 

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If Barcelona continue to have their financial problems, I wish United would dedicate their entire budget next summer to try and price de Jong away. Would be bridge between United returning where they belong, whether Pogba stays or leaves. Same goes for Kimmich actually.
 

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If Barcelona continue to have their financial problems, I wish United would dedicate their entire budget next summer to try and price de Jong away. Would be bridge between United returning where they belong, whether Pogba stays or leaves. Same goes for Kimmich actually.
Barca will be fine financially
 

Morty_

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Coutinho did very well in 2018 and 2019. Hazard has been an absolute disaster for a player signed for 100M and was one year away from being a free. By every metric he’s been FAR worse than coutinho. Keep pushing whatever narrative you like but hazard has been a far bigger abomination of a signing than anything Barca has done. Hazard has been woeful constantly. This is common sense
Coutinho joined Barca in January 2018, Barca had, what, a 9 points lead to Atletico at that point? He has nothing to do with that league title, in 18/19 he had 5 goals and 2 assists in 34 games, got luck convincing anyone besides Barca-fans he had anything at all to do with any of those league titles, because he simply didnt.

Keep pushing whatever narrative you like though.
 

Trezeguet17

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What? Coutinho had nothing to do with the league titles you've won in recent years, come on, get serious here.

Until Hazard is loaned out and scores a brace against us, no, he isnt worse.
Is there any specific game/performance/statistic or whatever in which Hazard is better than Coutinho since he joined Real?

So Hazard can play as bad as he wants from now on but he won‘t ever be as bad of a signing as Coutinho until he gets loaned out and scores 2 absolutely meaningless goals against Real?

Kind of a weird way to judge a signing in my opinion...
 

Daysleeper

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Coutinho joined Barca in January 2018, Barca had, what, a 9 points lead to Atletico at that point? He has nothing to do with that league title, in 18/19 he had 5 goals and 2 assists in 34 games, got luck convincing anyone besides Barca-fans he had anything at all to do with any of those league titles, because he simply didnt.

Keep pushing whatever narrative you like though.
okay and yet he still contributed ten times more than hazard who has done ZILCH since signing with Madrid. Injured, overweight and useless at least coutinho had a good start with us and was a serviceable player in the beginning. Hazard has been the worst signing of the decade with far less contributions and he can’t even stay on a pitch for more than a game or two. Coutinho was never half as lazy as hazard. Hell, Griezmann had more goals in January than hazard had during his entire time at Madrid. So push whatever narrative you like about a meaningless brace, by every metric coutinho has been comfortably better than hazard.

Coutinho with 11 goals in 54 games >>>> hazard pitiful 5 goals in 43 on top of having the time of his life when Madrid got knocked out in CL against Chelsea. Coutinho at least respected Barca whereas hazard didn’t give an F the second the money came in. Both are terrible signings but hazard was far worse by every metric
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Hazard is a worse signing, sure. He's been injured the vast majority of the time. I just don't know what the point of bragging about that is. Emiliano Sala was also a worse signing than Coutinho, by these standards.
 

Daysleeper

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Hazard is a worse signing, sure. He's been injured the vast majority of the time. I just don't know what the point of bragging about that is. Emiliano Sala was also a worse signing than Coutinho, by these standards.
Hazard has inarguably been a worse signing the Coutinho, period, both signings were terrible. But hazard I’d argue had even bigger expectations than coutinho and failed more spectacularly. Both teams will move on.
 

Daysleeper

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You would know better than I do, so fair enough.
it’ll take some time though, but de Jong on united would be amazing for you lot no doubt if it was to ever happen.

and best of luck to the Dutch in the euros
 

Morty_

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okay and yet he still contributed ten times more than hazard who has done ZILCH since signing with Madrid. Injured, overweight and useless at least coutinho had a good start with us and was a serviceable player in the beginning. Hazard has been the worst signing of the decade with far less contributions and he can’t even stay on a pitch for more than a game or two. Coutinho was never half as lazy as hazard. Hell, Griezmann had more goals in January than hazard had during his entire time at Madrid. So push whatever narrative you like about a meaningless brace, by every metric coutinho has been comfortably better than hazard
Thats not what you said, you said he actually "helped you win league titles", when he did nothing of that sort.

His first half of 17/18 was decent, at that point Barca already had a massive lead, his 18/19 was awful.

You believe Hazard is worse, fair enough, but Coutinho har been absolutely insignificant for Barcelona too.
 

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it’ll take some time though, but de Jong on united would be amazing for you lot no doubt if it was to ever happen.

and best of luck to the Dutch in the euros
Yeah in the long run Barcelona is huge and generate huge revenue.

De Jong will be one of the best transfers any club has made long-run, I'm really jealous! And thanks.
 

Daysleeper

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Thats not what you said, you said he actually "helped you win league titles", when he did nothing of that sort.

His first half of 17/18 was decent, at that point Barca already had a massive lead, his 18/19 was awful.

You believe Hazard is worse, fair enough, but Coutinho har been absolutely insignificant for Barcelona too.
now we are getting somewhere :). I just think hazard has been a much worse signing than coutinho and the stats prove it too, but at the end of the day we are comparing one abomination of a signing with lightly less abomination of a signing
 

Morty_

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now we are getting somewhere :). I just think hazard has been a much worse signing than coutinho and the stats prove it too, but at the end of the day we are comparing one abomination of a signing with lightly less abomination of a signing
Between Hazard, Coutinho, Dembele, overpayed Brazilian wingers(Perez attempts to find Neymar 2.0....) and few more, both clubs has really made a mess of things with transfers, thats for sure.

Perez should focus on spending the clubs money more wisely, instead of acting as if we are going broke without ESL by default.
 

Daysleeper

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Between Hazard, Coutinho, Dembele, overpayed Brazilian wingers(Perez attempts to find Neymar 2.0....) and few more, both clubs has really made a mess of things with transfers, thats for sure.

Perez should focus on spending the clubs money more wisely, instead of acting as if we are going broke without ESL by default.
true but Barca have done far worse than Madrid has in the transfer market. Will take a full year if not more to undo what Barto has done. Oof
 

Daysleeper

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Who would you sell or cut from the squad to save the €300m a year off the wage bill needed to get under the La Liga cap?
honestly? Tons of players however just getting them off the books regardless of transfer fees would be huge. Messi is rumoured to go down from 75 million to 15 million per season (just a rumour though, will get official numbers soon), coutinho, Griezmann (will be hard to sell at his current salary), Alba, Umtiti, Sergei Roberto, pjanic, and dembele would go a long way in easing that burden just by getting their yearly salaries off the books. Barto made a huge mess, but I trust the new president Laporta will get them back on track
 

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honestly? Tons of players however just getting them off the books regardless of transfer fees would be huge. Messi is rumoured to go down from 75 million to 15 million per season (just a rumour though, will get official numbers soon), coutinho, Griezmann (will be hard to sell at his current salary), Alba, Umtiti, Sergei Roberto, pjanic, and dembele would go a long way in easing that burden just by getting their yearly salaries off the books. Barto made a huge mess, but I trust the new president Laporta will get them back on track
Well, if the reports are right, he wants to sign Ronaldo to play alongside Messi. From a financial point of the view, that sounds like digging up your own grave.

Although that's never gonna happen.
 

stefan92

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Counterpoint: he didn't score 2 goals against us in one of the greatest humiliations in club history
True. On the other hand that game proved that Coutinho still was a good player and that time and kept his value high (and in the end it did not matter for Barca that he scored in that game), while Hazard just lost all his value due to his injuries
 

giorno

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Hazard was a world class player in his prime we very much needed, and it didn't work out due to injury

Coutinho was a borderline world class player who never made sense for barcelona, was just as expensive, took them going to war with another top club to sign, then took 1 year to realize he never made sense for them and got desperate to offload him. To heap insult upon injury, he was a no show when his previous club dumped barcelona out of the CL in one of the greatest meltdowns of all time, then was loaned out to a team that won everything, putting in a brace & assist in the single most humiliating night of the club's history
 

giorno

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True. On the other hand that game proved that Coutinho still was a good player and that time and kept his value high (and in the end it did not matter for Barca that he scored in that game), while Hazard just lost all his value due to his injuries
He's on like €20M p.a. who the feck is gonna sign him