Real Madrid and Barcelona

stefan92

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I still think in hindsight that Hazard was the worse deal than Coutinho. However I agree that Hazard was simply a very unlucky story due to the amount of injuries and related trouble, while Coutinho was more predictable to be a failure.

He's on like €20M p.a. who the feck is gonna sign him
No doubt Barca fecked up their transfers and contracts massively, which is why I actually like Real Madrid more. At least they don't pretend to be something special except just the best and most expensive club team in the world, while they are actually doing sensible business and don't just go and waste money, unlike "mes que un club" Barca...
 

Mb194dc

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Well, if the reports are right, he wants to sign Ronaldo to play alongside Messi. From a financial point of the view, that sounds like digging up your own grave.

Although that's never gonna happen.
It's paper talk or maybe planted as good PR.

Realistically Barcelona have to cut Messi plus another 10 or 15 players to save the €300m needed.

Messi is €100m of it, then you need to cut 10 players on €20m a year to make up the rest, or 15 on 13.3m, you get the idea.

Messi is out of contract so that's easy. No idea how the rest can be saved without drastic measures.
 

DWelbz19

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Counterpoint: he didn't score 2 goals against us in one of the greatest humiliations in club history
I don't know how this goes so lightly. You literally cannot get a big cucking in football. Your own player, who is contracted by your own club, on loan assisting in an 8-2 drubbing against you. Insane!
 

Daysleeper

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Counterpoint: he didn't score 2 goals against us in one of the greatest humiliations in club history
which didn’t even matter as the game was decided by then. Morata knocked you out of a semi final CL with a far more crucial goal. Would rather have what coutinho did than what Morata did
 

stefan92

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I don't know how this goes so lightly. You literally cannot get a big cucking in football. Your own player, who is contracted by your own club, on loan assisting in an 8-2 drubbing against you. Insane!
Probably because that was just a footnote in that match. I believe this would be far more in the focus if it had been a 3-2 and Coutinho still had scored two goals. So the goals he scored did just not matter, if it ends 6-2 or 8-2, it still is a drubbing.
 

Daysleeper

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I don't know how this goes so lightly. You literally cannot get a big cucking in football. Your own player, who is contracted by your own club, on loan assisting in an 8-2 drubbing against you. Insane!
Nah, if coutinho scored the goals that knocked us out it would hurt much more. Game was over by the time he came on.

If coutinho did this to us, it would hurt way way more:

 

Daysleeper

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Probably because that was just a footnote in that match. I believe this would be far more in the focus if it had been a 3-2 and Coutinho still had scored two goals. So the goals he scored did just not matter, if it ends 6-2 or 8-2, it still is a drubbing.
exactly, thank you! It was a humiliation regardless but would’ve felt much worse if it was the deciding goal
 

Rado_N

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How are Barca managing to renew Messi for another few years with their financial situation?!
 

Mindhunter

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How are Barca managing to renew Messi for another few years with their financial situation?!
By reducing his salary significantly but my guaranteeing his a salary even after his playing days are over. Basically by spreading it out across several years.
 

Gonçalo Motta

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By reducing his salary significantly but my guaranteeing his a salary even after his playing days are over. Basically by spreading it out across several years.
That's probably one of the dumbest things I ever heard. So Messi will still be a financial burden for Barcelona after he retires then.

What are they even thinking? They should have sold him when he wanted to leave and start building for the future.
 

Daysleeper

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That's probably one of the dumbest things I ever heard. So Messi will still be a financial burden for Barcelona after he retires then.

What are they even thinking? They should have sold him when he wanted to leave and start building for the future.
It’ll just be a 2 year deal for far less wages, the ten year contract was debunked.
 

Gonçalo Motta

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It’ll just be a 2 year deal for far less wages, the ten year contract was debunked.
Fair enough. But the logical choice here is to let Messi go imo.

It will help with the debt and open some room to build up for the era pos Messi. If Messi retires in Barcelona they will have to pay his wages till then and they won't get any transfer fee money while right now I can see someone pay 100M for him (PSG for example) and Barcelona will be free from the Messi financial burden.

He's still a great player but he is in the final stage of his career. I just don't see the point in keeping him at the club when the club has such a massive debt.
 

Raredaredevil

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By reducing his salary significantly but my guaranteeing his a salary even after his playing days are over. Basically by spreading it out across several years.
I don't understand this. Why pay him even after he retires? Is he going to be the face of the club's brand? An ambassador? This doesn't make sense.
 

Daysleeper

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Fair enough. But the logical choice here is to let Messi go imo.

It will help with the debt and open some room to build up for the era pos Messi. If Messi retires in Barcelona they will have to pay his wages till then and they won't get any transfer fee money while right now I can see someone pay 100M for him (PSG for example) and Barcelona will be free from the Messi financial burden.

He's still a great player but he is in the final stage of his career. I just don't see the point in keeping him at the club when the club has such a massive debt.
Messi is out of a contract, there is no transfer fee with him. If the rumoured 12-15M a year contract is true then honestly it’s a no brainer to keep him for that price point. He’s still a top 3 player in the world. The club will need to work on a post era Messi for sure, but for a very reasonable contract and he only has two years left I personally think it is totally fine.
 

Daysleeper

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I don't understand this. Why pay him even after he retires? Is he going to be the face of the club's brand? An ambassador? This doesn't make sense.
that was the plan, but apparently that long term contract was debunked on Catalan radio
 

CanadianUtd

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How true this has turned out to be


remember a couple years ago when Barca offered Yerry Mina+Andre Gomes+£42m for Pogba? Well I think United should put in a cheeky bid for De Jong seeing their financial disaster, something along the lines of James+Lingard+£25m should work.

Would only be fair to try to return back the favour... :lol:
 

carvajal

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"Barcelona could be forced to become a public limited company in 2022.
Saudi and Chinese interest.
The risk capital funds Bridgepoint and CVC partners are the best placed. Carmelo Ezpeleta, from Dorna Sports, a key figure in the operation.
The operation has the approval of the government and Tebas would have already proposed it to Barcelona, which is currently at risk of suspension of payments (don't know the journalist)
 

cyberman

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"Barcelona could be forced to become a public limited company in 2022.
Saudi and Chinese interest.
The risk capital funds Bridgepoint and CVC partners are the best placed. Carmelo Ezpeleta, from Dorna Sports, a key figure in the operation.
The operation has the approval of the government and Tebas would have already proposed it to Barcelona, which is currently at risk of suspension of payments (don't know the journalist)
409 followers.
 

cyberman

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I know, but some of the replicas are from quite serious people and actually they don't seem to have many more options, with or without Messi
Theyll just have to be in the widerness for a few years and come back stronger. I just cant see this happening but could be wrong. Getting rid of Messi and Griezmann frees up a staggering near 3m a week. They can start there surely?
 

Mb194dc

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I know, but some of the replicas are from quite serious people and actually they don't seem to have many more options, with or without Messi
Selling a few players and reducing the wage bill?

Barcelona members are going to agree to sell the soul of the club to Saudi and Chinese interest....
 

dinostar77

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"Barcelona could be forced to become a public limited company in 2022.
Saudi and Chinese interest.
The risk capital funds Bridgepoint and CVC partners are the best placed. Carmelo Ezpeleta, from Dorna Sports, a key figure in the operation.
The operation has the approval of the government and Tebas would have already proposed it to Barcelona, which is currently at risk of suspension of payments (don't know the journalist)
How is that possible when the club is owned by its members? Besides it wouldnt be a good thing for PL or madrid especially if Saudi Arabia's bottomless pit of money took control of Barcelona.
 

carvajal

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Theyll just have to be in the widerness for a few years and come back stronger. I just cant see this happening but could be wrong. Getting rid of Messi and Griezmann frees up a staggering near 3m a week. They can start there surely?
Selling a few players and reducing the wage bill?

Barcelona members are going to agree to sell the soul of the club to Saudi and Chinese interest....
How is that possible when the club is owned by its members? Besides it wouldnt be a good thing for PL or madrid especially if Saudi Arabia's bottomless pit of money took control of Barcelona.
I do not know if Messi and Griezmann is enough. The situation seems quite desperate and every day more things appear.
I imagine they would look for some formula where the partner still had 51%. And if that formula allows them to continue signing, keeping Messi, perhaps the partner will agree to change the statutes and not spend a decade suffering.
 

monosierra

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What's this I'm reading about Barca swapping Griezmann for Saul? Atletico could be laughing their way to another title.
 

Dave Smith

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What's this I'm reading about Barca swapping Griezmann for Saul? Atletico could be laughing their way to another title.
More likely is that Barca are trying to pull another Pjanic/Arthur deal to move money about.
 

Daysleeper

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Happy with the contact?
Honestly, I’m waiting for official numbers to be out but it’s a little high despite the paycut. Father Time gets to everyone and while Messi is a deserved potential ballon d’or winner this calendar year I feel like his salary is a little high moving forward if I’m being honest. However, with Griezmann coming off the books I think the team can surprise people if players can stay healthy as I think you can still win a CL with Messi as your best player. Just don’t think it’ll be with the current makeup of the squad as the defense and midfield still need improvement. I was hoping Messi would be 20-25M a year. I know Barca offered the new contract first but it can be a little steep but I imagine if after two years he goes to MLS they will foot the bill, in which case I wouldn’t be as bothered with his high wages if it’s short term although I hope he can still play at a high level for Barca for more than two seasons
 
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How did Real Madrid Net Debt go from 240M to €46M in one season, in the season where football has lost money?

Have they been bailed out by the council? Have they fiddled the books? Is Perez lying or misrepresenting? Is it the reason why they never officially left the ESL?
 

GatoLoco

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How did Real Madrid Net Debt go from 240M to €46M in one season, in the season where football has lost money?

Have they been bailed out by the council? Have they fiddled the books? Is Perez lying or misrepresenting? Is it the reason why they never officially left the ESL?
I don't know much about the financial side of football but if you take 2015/16 and 2016/17 as references it turns out the operating income is similar to the one in 2020/21. Even if the stadium money is severely reduced, TV, international competitions and marketing income have increased quite a lot.



Then as you said, it's not just that Florentino hasn't signed anyone and has reduced the salaries, he also sold some of the academy gems on top of that (Achraf, Reguilon, Oscar Rodriguez...)

https://www.transfermarkt.es/real-m...418/plus/?saison_id=2020&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=

Also if I'm not mistaken Madrid agreed a percentage of Achraf transfer surplus value from Inter to PSG. So out of the 70-40 million euros they are getting an important sum.

Tebas said Real Madrid had had the best economical management during the pandemic in Europe and even if it's not 100% like that, he certainly has a point.
 

ThierryHenry14

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This graph basically confirmed what I was aware of before that income from stadium is not that significant. The most important side is to increase the profile of the club for more TV money, marketing and commercial deals. It makes little sense to build a new stadium and put the club under huge debt, unless the existing one is too dated. Redevelop/Renovate it makes more sense.
 

ATXRedDevil

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How did Real Madrid Net Debt go from 240M to €46M in one season, in the season where football has lost money?

Have they been bailed out by the council? Have they fiddled the books? Is Perez lying or misrepresenting? Is it the reason why they never officially left the ESL?
Net debt = debt minus cash and cash equivalents. Unused borrowing capacity that’s actually available to you is a cash equivalent. For example, $2bn of debt, $500m of cash and $1bn of availability under your revolving credit facility gets you to net debt of $500m.
If your borrowing availability increases by more than your cash goes down and debt goes up, your net debt goes down.
Basically, they probably got a new revolver or increased borrowing base.
 

Danillaco

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How true this has turned out to be


remember a couple years ago when Barca offered Yerry Mina+Andre Gomes+£42m for Pogba? Well I think United should put in a cheeky bid for De Jong seeing their financial disaster, something along the lines of James+Lingard+£25m should work.

Would only be fair to try to return back the favour... :lol:
To be fair, the bid for De Jong should be mandatory. They are reealy, reeeeealy fecked. He's the type of player that would set us whole.
 

Tallis

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Net debt = debt minus cash and cash equivalents. Unused borrowing capacity that’s actually available to you is a cash equivalent. For example, $2bn of debt, $500m of cash and $1bn of availability under your revolving credit facility gets you to net debt of $500m.
If your borrowing availability increases by more than your cash goes down and debt goes up, your net debt goes down.
Basically, they probably got a new revolver or increased borrowing base.
That’s not quite correct. You wouldnt Include the available RCF in that calculation. Cash equivalents are generally marketable securities or other liquid investments that can be converted to cash easily / short time frame.

I am not sure if those Madrid net debt numbers are correct. I saw something which indicated a lot more of debt recently. They are also not behaving like someone who has virtually no leverage.
 

ATXRedDevil

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That’s not quite correct. You wouldnt Include the available RCF in that calculation. Cash equivalents are generally marketable securities or other liquid investments that can be converted to cash easily / short time frame.

I am not sure if those Madrid net debt numbers are correct. I saw something which indicated a lot more of debt recently. They are also not behaving like someone who has virtually no leverage.
Thanks for the catch.

i was trying to rationalize how that could be possible, but it’s likely the numbers are just wrong.
 

amolbhatia50k

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How did Real Madrid Net Debt go from 240M to €46M in one season, in the season where football has lost money?

Have they been bailed out by the council? Have they fiddled the books? Is Perez lying or misrepresenting? Is it the reason why they never officially left the ESL?
How are Madrid even broke with that small a debt? Ours is absolutely enormous and we're signing players for big money.

Seems to me that their troubles are inflated and we may soon see them go ballistic in the market once again like they did in 2009.