Realistically how brutal does Erik Ten Hag need to be?

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
3,114
He should be publicly bringing everyone together under the same cause, all while quietly yet ruthlessly shipping out the misfits/underperformers.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
21,037
Location
Sydney
He should start by clearly setting expectations. That includes performance in training and the ones not up to will soon reveal themselves. He’ll likely cull a few of the bad apples this summer (in addition to the ones we know are already leaving) but it’s not realistic for it to be more than that. If he goes full scorched earth right away these players will down tools again, and he needs some of them to play next season.
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
2,266
I reckon he'll shift a few players that won't (ever) fit his system this summer and then he'll get rid of the ones that don't adapt next summer.
That's about it. He can wrap it in sugar coat but basically all are in clean slate. Hopefully the new recruits will fit right in, demonstrating to the rest of the squad as what it should be like playing at top level. Cut out a few weeds next summer, and we should have a core squad of 13-15 players. Not necessarily good enough to fight at the top on a consistent basis, but at least show us what MU should be like
 

Beans

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
1,838
Location
Midwest, USA, Rangnick Forever!
Honestly I'm worried about keeping Bruno, that's how bad I think it is. With him playing as a 10, it means you're gonna have 2 central midfielders and will be overwhelmed in midfield. We may need to play 4222 or play him on the wing.

Varane is the only one I'm comfortable backing to be here in 3 years.
 

mitchmouse

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
12,042
To be honest, one of the reasons I am angry that we missed out on Conte is that I think he would have been much tougher and, sad as it is, I think we need that right now. It's also one of the reasons I wanted Enrique (although I knew there was no chance with the World Cup stupidly being awarded to a country where it has to be staged half way through the season).

Not sure ETH will be tough enough (he doesn't have to be brutal) although hopefully he won't be as weak as Ole seemed to be - I still think much of the failing this season came from not being as fit as some other clubs right t the start of the season)
 

Steven Seagull

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
9,150
Location
The Clockwork Orange tulip technician.
He'll know after about 3 days which players actually want to improve and which players really don't care. It's a good thing for him I suppose as it will be blatantly obvious, that's how low it's got
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
4,821
You won't see me claiming that Pogba did us in at the Amex yesterday, but it was a nice strawman try. :lol:

The club still has a massive contract offer in front of Pogba, which he may or may not decide to sign before ETH arrives at Old Trafford. You might be right that Pogba is leaving, but we might all wake up tomorrow morning to find out that he's actually signed the contract, laughing all the way to the bank.

ETH needs to be given wide latitude in deciding who is and who isn't going to be a member of the squad going into next season, a point no one can reasonably dispute. There are more than a few players who need to go and we may not be able to get of them, such as Martial. Fair enough. But why we still have a contract offer in front of a player who has made it a very public point that he will not commit to United boggles the mind. Yet we do and unless the contract offer is withdrawn, ETH may find that he has a player on his hands he doesn't want and can't get rid of. On the other hand, if ETH does want Pogba that's a different matter.
It’s irrelevant at this juncture when by the time he officially starts Pogba’s contract will have finished. I didn’t say you said Pogba did us in against Brighton though did I? I highlighted how idiotic it is to focus on a soon to be expired contract when EtH has far more pressing concerns. Focusing on that contract, when RR has stated he isn’t signing it doesn’t pay attention to EtH’s real problems.

What good does publicly withdrawing the contract do? It gives people like yourself one last win in a battle you’ve taken up against our own player but you do understand there’s not some table with a contract on that Pogba walls past on his way into Carrington don’t you? It’s a turn of phrase. He can’t simply sign it in the dead of night.

The most worrying contract EtH has to now work with is the one we gave to Bruno despite a worrying downturn in form on terms that benefit the player not club. I’m just not so sure why posters are worrying about Pogba still when looking at Saturday the issues run far deeper than a man on the way out, hence the pogba contract vs Brighton comment, it just doesn’t focus on the actual issues.
 

downunder red

Full Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
498
Location
the land of oz
Not sure ETH will be tough enough (he doesn't have to be brutal) although hopefully he won't be as weak as Ole seemed to be - I still think much of the failing this season came from not being as fit as some other clubs right t the start of the season)
Totally agree with are fitness levels being not up to standard. They have been for years. I'm sure for ETH"s system to work you have to be very fit. I think a few players are in for a shock, fitness wise.
 

rpitroda

petitioned for a just cause
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
18,758
Location
Los Pollos Hermanos...
What I would also add is that people forget how much of a difference playing with desire, in a proper system, can make. Yes it’s a shame player desire doesn’t come from within but alas that’s the state of a modern footballer and if we only sought those players we’d struggle to find them. To my mind ETH doesn’t need to be brutal, he needs to identify the players who will work in his system and who have a desire to win but are just low on confidence. He can work and develop those guys and they can have a role to play. It’s all to easy to underestimate the amount of impact that can have. There are however toxic and problematic players in our squad, who must be “brutally” dealt with immediately. I don’t know how many that is.
 

Memento28

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
32
MUFC board and the Business
He is an unproven manager in a top club and because this is a business, if he does not reach his targets, he WILL be fired. No question about that.
The fact that he is unproven will mean that the board will give him less time. Guardiola, for example, would be given a lot of leeway because it is understood that he will eventually get things right. A manager with less pedigree (like ETH) will likely be fired if it looks like he is failing, as he has no track record of managing a top club and taking them to the top.

The Fans
Will the fans give him time?
Nope.
I know how fans are and they won't change. Fans turn quickly.
They turned quickly on Moyes.
They turned on LVG (with his boring football, even though he won a trophy).
They turned on Jose (even though we won 2 trophies with him).
And we turned on Ole, after getting pumped by Liverpool, MCFC, LCFC, Watford and many other teams.
If what you said does happen then I am afraid nothing is going to change at United, the board has to be realistic and set realistic targets for ETH, if the board has such a short-term vision it's like they are shooting themselves in the foot again like they have been doing since SAF left. It's high time the fans also realise it's going to take time and effort for United to get back to the top and start playing good football (like an actual team), there's no point in making the manager the scapegoat again and again.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
16,670
Location
Inside right
No quarter given. These players (sans the new buys) deserve absolutely nothing and the excuses being made for them is exactly why we're in the rut we're in.

The reality is many are going nowhere unless the club pays them off or subsidises them elsewhere, once that is factored in, more players that have outstayed their welcome will be going nowhere unless told they won't be playing and care enough about that because it's a World Cup year.

Whatever the rot is within the club, it needs to be sandblasted out and a treatment of weed killer applied to that; ten Hag should take whatever approach he thinks is best, but if he wants as many out as possible, the club has to try and facilitate it.

People on here still backing these players beggar belief. These same players that don't mind getting thumped on the road whilst paying support are left to look like mugs. For all the stick Ronaldo has had on here, if the rest of these players had his personal pride and sense of duty to something, we wouldn't be in this mess, nor be indifferent to 90-something percent of the squad being removable.
 

12OunceEpilogue

In perfect harmony
Scout
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
15,545
Location
Wigan
He should be publicly bringing everyone together under the same cause, all while quietly yet ruthlessly shipping out the misfits/underperformers.
Definitely. Klopp never called anyone out in public but he took one look at his goalkeepers and the likes of Moreno and replaced them asap. We don't need histrionics from Erik in public, just action.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
7,430
Location
Ireland
He has to be tough in decision making, and must show he is the boss and take no nonsense from the very start.
 

Marcus

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Messages
4,962
He will be reasonable and give everyone a chance to prove themselves. He will give clear instructions as to how to implement his gameplan. Those who do not comply will be subbed immediately or will not start the next game or both. That's the first step.
 

Oldyella

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
4,436
Not as brutal as people on here would want, more brutal then he will probably be allowed to be.
 

Knux

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
1,606
Supports
AIK Stockholm
I dont think he needs to be ’brutal’ per se. We already know which players will leave this summer. So the key for Ten Hag’s success here will be the new additions to the first team.

Im sure he’ll have a clear idea of which players can improve not only the team but also our current slacking culture at the club. We need a mix of physical and high energy players. Exciting times coming now.
 

RatPack

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
92
There is already so many players leaving that I do not see him kicking anyone else.
At best he will get 3 players + maybe a free transfer in. So he will already have less players.
I do not see that he will remove anyone not asking for it this summer.
And if we have to wait for ETH to start before we contact new potential players I doubt that we will be in time this summer.
 

ryansgirl

Full Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
2,805
Location
where the sun rises
Ten Hag is an intelligent manager who can get the best out of players while not worrying about benching or omitting players who aren`t up to a particular game or style of play. He won`t come in throwing his weight around but he will be decisive and if he has the full backing of the Manchester United board and organisation, he will be able to cull the squad without putting on any public show of strength or engaging in drama.

From what we can find out about his character and managerial style, it seems he will focus on getting what he can out of players based on how they fit the system he will implement. He will be canny enough to let the players know he`s not coming in with assumptions but they will have to up their work rate and show they really want to be at United and learn from him.

I think he will be inclined to give players such as Bruno, Maguire, Marcus, Fred, Sancho, Varane and McTominay opportunity to show what they can do under him and ask Ronaldo to stay. But hopefully Pogba, Bailly and Shaw for starters will be told they are not required. I`m a fan of those three but it`s time for Paul to move on, Bailly hasn`t got the right attitude and Shaw is also out of time and his attitude has left too much to be desired. Those three names must go to set the tone at the beginning.
 

Zlatattack

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
6,736
Just when you think that United have sunk to a new low, we find a new bottom. The one redeeming feature of a 4-0 defeat to Brighton is the sense of outrage amongst United fans. Even if the club's standards have fallen through the floor the fans standards have not.

Clearly it is not possible to have a wholesale clear out in one season. The transition to whatever becomes the new normal will take time, probably longer than anyone thinks. Those who believe that Ten Hag might be able to transform this relatively quickly are deluding themselves. Nothing about the capitulation this season suggests that it will be fixed anytime soon.

In recent weeks we have seen reports that Ten Hag may be minded to give under-performing players a second chance, but looking to next season and beyond how brutal do you think Erik Ten Hag need to be? When he arrives does he need to call out the pundit enablers in the media like Gary Neville and Rio Ferdinand both of whom refused to call out the last manager when he was clearly failing? Does he call out the historical failures and poor decision-making within the club's hierarchy? Does he continue with Rangnick's public condemnation of players who contribute to the culture of toxicity at the club? Does he announce publicly the players that are not part of his plans? How brutal does he need to be?
Why can't we have a wholesale clearout in one season? What's going to happen? We finish 7th in the league?

I think ETH should be brutal with all the fringe dross and sideline them entirely. You leave or you're in the reserves.

With the first team players he wants to work with, he needs to be equally strict - if you survive the cut you need to prove your worth next season or you're gone in the summer.

If there are gaps in the squad which aren't filled with transfers, then promote promising youth for the season.

The same attitude should be taken with the coaches, backroom staff etc - where we are not up to scratch, he should be demanding better.

If it was up to me...

Out Summer 22

At all costs - Pogba, Matic, Cavani, Mata, Lingard, Grant, Jones, Bailly, Martial, Periera,

If we can find a buyer/replacements - Telles, AWB, Shaw

Last Chance Saloon 2022/23

Everyone other than DDG, Bruno, Ronaldo, DVB, Sancho and Varane

Out Summer 23

Anyone not upto scratch, Shaw if he's still about, AWB if he's still about, McTomminay (he's not very good).
 

mctrials23

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
477
To my mind the players that will probably be here and very much still around the first XI:

DDG
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Fred
Sancho
Bruno
Ronaldo

Thats at least 4 positions that need filling and probably 5-6 to have any level of comfort. I think Fred or Bruno will be benched a fair bit but also be used a lot. Both of them have a good work ethic and will do as they are told but its perhaps not great having both of them together on the pitch.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
6,566
It’s irrelevant at this juncture when by the time he officially starts Pogba’s contract will have finished. I didn’t say you said Pogba did us in against Brighton though did I? I highlighted how idiotic it is to focus on a soon to be expired contract when EtH has far more pressing concerns. Focusing on that contract, when RR has stated he isn’t signing it doesn’t pay attention to EtH’s real problems.

What good does publicly withdrawing the contract do? It gives people like yourself one last win in a battle you’ve taken up against our own player but you do understand there’s not some table with a contract on that Pogba walls past on his way into Carrington don’t you? It’s a turn of phrase. He can’t simply sign it in the dead of night.

The most worrying contract EtH has to now work with is the one we gave to Bruno despite a worrying downturn in form on terms that benefit the player not club. I’m just not so sure why posters are worrying about Pogba still when looking at Saturday the issues run far deeper than a man on the way out, hence the pogba contract vs Brighton comment, it just doesn’t focus on the actual issues.
Yes, it’s the contract offer to Pogba that did for us in the 4-0 yesterday & multiple other drubbings he’s not took part in.

If there were no contract extension offer in front of Pogba as we speak, it would obviously be ridiculous to speak of a contract extension offer that does not exist. But the contract extension offer does exist and although it's true that as it stands right now Pogba will be out of contract on June 30, it's entirely possible that Pogba will not be satisfied with his other options, or lack thereof, and that he'll sign the contract extension offer before ETH takes over.

All I'm suggesting is that ETH be given the maximum flexibility -- even to the point of "brutality" when it comes to rebuilding the squad. We don't know what ETH's thoughts on Pogba are, but it would not be stellar management on the part of the club to have signed a massively expensive contract extension for a player that the incoming manager might not want.

We've seen extremely poor club management over the last decade, have we not?
 

Alfie092

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
913
Very brutal and cannot fall for the trap of becoming just another puppet or else we are doomed...
 

Swerny

Poster originally known MS MSP
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
3,087
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
He needs to be Atilla the Hun brutal. Scorched earth. I don't think that starting the season with an entire new squad would leave us worse off. Obviously that won't happen and theres a couple of players you'd be sorry to lose but there are no foundations worth building on. An unprecedented gutting of an entire squad would not disimprove us and would remove the toxic poison that seems to have infected everyone even the better players. Again it won't happen but 16 out and 16 in wouldn't be the risk it would at another club. There is no system, there is no chemistry to lose
I agree with this
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,265
His first and possibly biggest challenge is getting the players on board and helping to improve their confidence again. If he wants them to buy into his system they have to feel more confident and start pulling in the right direction. He he can’t manage that he isn’t worth his salary and he will really struggle to get over his ideas. I’m confident he will manage it.
I am not confident he can.
I believe we will have to buy in new players (or promote youth).
In 2 years, we'll know who was right.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
3,512
If Maguire leaves the first training session with less than 2 black eyes I say we suck the soft fecker.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
5,089
He needs to dismantle the squad in the same way that Klopp did at Liverpool. It will take a few summers but it’s necessary.

If we keep relying on same players we’ll just go full circle and be back in similar scenario in 2-3 years time.
 

choccy77

Full Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
5,492
Ten Hag is an intelligent manager who can get the best out of players while not worrying about benching or omitting players who aren`t up to a particular game or style of play. He won`t come in throwing his weight around but he will be decisive and if he has the full backing of the Manchester United board and organisation, he will be able to cull the squad without putting on any public show of strength or engaging in drama.

From what we can find out about his character and managerial style, it seems he will focus on getting what he can out of players based on how they fit the system he will implement. He will be canny enough to let the players know he`s not coming in with assumptions but they will have to up their work rate and show they really want to be at United and learn from him.

I think he will be inclined to give players such as Bruno, Maguire, Marcus, Fred, Sancho, Varane and McTominay opportunity to show what they can do under him and ask Ronaldo to stay. But hopefully Pogba, Bailly and Shaw for starters will be told they are not required. I`m a fan of those three but it`s time for Paul to move on, Bailly hasn`t got the right attitude and Shaw is also out of time and his attitude has left too much to be desired. Those three names must go to set the tone at the beginning.
Pogba not required?

He is leaving as he has no contract... its not s Club choice :lol:
 

UTD_Since_1978

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
583
He needs to be very brutal, we can't keep seeing these highly paid players put in one bad performance after another & get rewarded with constantly starting games & given new contracts, enough is enough.

Jose had his faves, Ole & RR both kept giving players who were awful & needed to be dropped a place in the starting XI in the next game, if ETH does the same I will be furious but I'm hoping that ETH will actually have us start to win matches from now on.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
5,534
Its either scorched earth or a much more rational and logical approach this summer. Should be the first but will be the second.
 

Superman123

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
8
Supports
Ajax
Erik ten Hag will be brutal at first. When he started at Fc Utrecht and Ajax on both occasions he collided with the player group.
He is a long term coach that will set some new rules. Players will have to do their defensive job for example. He wont set rules that are out of border.
Ten Hag is a decent guy and might not be loved at first but will be after they get to know him just like he did at Ajax and Utrecht.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

Will Singh

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
5,316
Location
Theatre of dreams
The obvious answer is he has to be ruthless to the intent of kicking people out the club BUT I don’t think it will happen. We had the same discussion about Ole and a lot on here agreed as he’s a club legend he’ll put them straight or they’ll be out the door, if he couldn’t do it I can’t see ETH given that respect but I hope I’m proved wrong and he’s given the green light to get rid of as many players as he do wishes!!!