Redcafe Champions League Draft Semi Final - Gio v Fergus

[Theon]

Tactics:
A balanced and cohesive 4-2-3-1 provides the perfect platform for the considerable quality on display to showcase their collective ability. Balance is provided through complementary partnerships (Ferdinand/Vidic; Silva/Vieira; Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Romario) up and down the park, while cohesion comes through the cluster of five Brazilians alongside the Juventus, Inter and United partnerships.

How will we deal with Messi and Ronaldo?
A world-class back four. They will be backed up by two ruthless central defensive midfielders who will cut the supply, starving that pair of the possession they need to show their ability. Pavel Nedved will have a specific defensive responsibility to use his limitless energy and hard running to back up Zambrotta where required. As a right-footed left-back, Zambrotta is custom-designed to deal with Messi's tendency to cut inside (see Chelsea placing a far lesser defender in Bosingwa at left-back to deal with Messi in the 2008/09 0-0 semi-final). Messi drifts any further and he will stray into Mauro Silva territory, a disciplined midfield anchor of the highest calibre. Meanwhile, Cristiano Ronaldo will be up against one of the greatest right-backs of all time in Javier Zanetti who together will likely cancel each other out.

Where the difference will be made:

• Two phenomenal attacks: one against a superb defence, the other surely finding some joy against a good-but-not-great back-line. Romario will have a field day darting in between Samuel and Ayala. Samuel is questionable at this level while Ayala, great player though he was, was always vulnerable to sheer pace. Hell even Michael Owen - who has got previous in embarrassing Ayala and Samuel - is clicking his heels on the bench.
• The interplay between the Brazilian front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Romario will be orgasmic. Ronaldinho will isolate Irwin on one-on-one battles and, as fine a full-back as Denis was, that's one hell of an ask to deal with a peak Ronaldinho especially when marooned with a lack of midfield support. Fundamentally that trio would need a defence of Baresi-Kohler-Rijkaard calibre to even begin thinking about stopping it.

PLAYER PROFILES

Claudio Taffarel
Almost flawless at three World Cups for Brazil as he racked up 101 caps for the Selecao. Expert at pulling off big saves when it mattered most, see his penalty shoot-out stops against Holland (1998 World Cup Semi-Final) and Italy (1994 World Cup Final), his fantastic save from a Thierry Henry header in the UEFA Cup Final or even this save-of-the-tournament in the last minute of the group stages against Scotland (had that gone in we would've qualified for the knockout stages for the first time in our history - you cnut Taffarel).

Javier Zanetti
Along with Thuram and Cafu from this generation, he is one of the greatest right-backs of all time. Probably the most complete player of the last 20 years bringing together physical (check out the size of those thighs), technical (gifted user of the ball, as shown by his finish against England in '98) and mental (versatile, consistent and even at 37 see his snuffing out of a prime Messi in the 2010 CL semi-final) attributes into one supreme package.

Rio Ferdinand
The Premiership's outstanding defender and the best centre-back in the world between 2006 and 2008. Complete centre-half who thrives next to a hardman like Montero in the mould of a Vidic, Terry or Campbell.

Nemanja Vidic
Dominant centre-half who renews his proven partnership with Ferdinand.

Paolo Montero
Uncompromising, left-footed and classy, Montero complements Ferdinand and Zambrotta perfectly. A key component of the great 1990s and early 2000s Juventus sides. Very highly rated in South America, he was a huge influence on the success of the Uruguayan national team:

Spoiler

WC2002 qualifiers with him organising the defence: Uruguay conceded the least goals in the South American qualifiers (13 in 18 games, 4 of these in the 3 games he missed making it 9 in 15 games - 0.6 per game).

WC2006 qualifiers with him left out because he was "past it": Uruguay conceded 23 in 8 games (3 per game).

WC2006 qualifiers once recalled to sort out the defence: Uruguay conceded 5 in 10 games (0.5 per game, that's a SIXfold improvement).

Gianluca Zambrotta
Another member of that great Juventus side who also counts Barcelona and AC Milan amongst his employers. Excelled internationally at Euro 2004 and World Cup 2006 where in both instances he was named in the official team of the tournament. Only five Italians have more internationals caps than the all-rounder Zambrotta who was reliable and capable on either flank or in midfield.

 

[Theon]

Patrick Vieira
Over a decade on from their peaks Keane and Vieira remain the gold standard amongst central midfielders.

Cesc Fabregas
From 2008 to 2012 Fabregas was the Premiership's outstanding midfielder, racking up more assists than any other midfielder in Europe. Precociously gifted with a penetrating eye for a pass.

Mauro Silva
Along with Dunga, Brazil's most influential central midfielder of the last 30 years. Together their midfield-anchoring ability changed the way Brazil played with a host of copycat-but-not-quite-so-good midfielders following in their considerable footsteps. At club level, Mauro Silva remains a legend at Deportivo and it's no coincidence that his time at the club aligns exactly with the rise and best years of Super Depor.

Nobody could get through Brazil in 1994 as they kept 5 clean sheets in 7 matches (essentially 6 out of 7 for Mauro who left the fray prior to Sweden's equaliser in a group stage dead rubber). With Silva absent in 1998, they managed just 1 in 7 as opposing attacking midfielders had a field day (Zidane, Laudrup, Jorgensen all netting). Many La Liga followers will remember his display in the Copa del Rey final against Real Madrid, a match effectively set up to celebrate Madrid's centenary and the inevitable victory of Perez's all-conquering Galacticos. Silva spoiled the party with one of the great defensive midfield performances, his domination such that Zidane and Raul were reduced to taking petulant swipes after they were dispossessed for the umpteenth time.

Pavel Nedved
Goalscoring midfielder brimming with energy and commitment. His repertoire of goals in Serie A was exceptional such was his ability to find the net from long range. Two-footed and aggressive, he inspired Juventus to the CL final in 2002-03, only to miss the match as a result of suspension. No less of a legend on the international stage as his talismanic performances at Euro 1996 and 2004 testify.

Rivaldo
Between Maradona and Messi, nobody bettered the peak that Rivaldo achieved with Barcelona and Brazil (Ronaldinho and Ronaldo hit similar zeniths). Possessor of one of the greatest and most multi-faceted left-feet the game has ever seen, he was a scintillating and talismanic match-winner between 1998 and 2002. His hat-trick against Valencia on the last day of the 2000/01 season remains one of, if not the greatest performances in the history of the game.

Ronaldinho
Phenomenal talent who was head and shoulders above everybody else between 2003 and 2006. Extraordinary dribbler, inventive passer and deadly from distance. His manipulation of the ball in tight spaces is unmatched in this draft.

Romario
Easily the most devastating penalty-box striker since Muller, his low centre of gravity, ability to turn on a six-pence and blistering acceleration ensured no defender could live with him.

Michael Owen
Embarrassed an array of world-class defenders during his career thanks to his blistering pace and always reliable finishing - particularly on the biggest stages. Plundered a hat-trick the last time he faced Oliver Kahn.

Roy Makaay
Gifted forward who was both a great goalscorer and a scorer of great goals. 108 goals in just three seasons while at Deportivo and Bayern testify to his onion-bag-rattling ability. Normally deployed as the lone frontman in Irureta's 4-2-3-1, or occasionally wide right in recognition of his rounded skillset, Makaay was excellent at finishing from range with both feet, while a 6ft 2' frame made him a potent threat in the air.

Joaquin
Between the fall of Figo and the rise of Ronaldo, Joaquin was the outstanding right-winger in Europe. Orthodox winger who was Spain's best player at the 2002 World Cup and wasfantastic for Betis, a level he did not maintain at Valencia and Malaga. In his peak form (2002-2005) likely to get the better of a number of the weaker left-backs in the draft.

Team Gio​

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Sub - Fabregas on for Mauro Silva​

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Spoiler

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[Theon]

Vs​

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Team Fergus​

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Sub - Muller for Schweinsteiger​

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Spoiler

Tactics

The basis of my team is formed by solid partnerships throughout, beginning with Walter Samuel and Robert Ayala, who played with each other on a number of occasions for the Argentine national team. This experience of playing together means they have an understanding not shared by many partnerships in this draft and will be completely in tune with one another – an important quality for any great cb partnership. They are flanked by Irwin and Thuram, two of the most reliable full backs of all time, both had a great awareness of how to lock their wing down defensively, yet also when to creep forward and contribute in an attacking sense. Irwin in particular had fantastic quality on the ball, his delivery was as good as most wingers and there will certainly be a time when he delivers a pin point cross for Batigol to finish.

My midfield trio contains 3 of the most important players for their respective teams. Makekele was described by Zidane as the ‘engine’ of the Real Madrid Galacticos, Bastian Schweinsteiger as the ‘brain’ of the German national side by Joachim Lowe, and SAF called Scholes ‘my best player’. All have huge experience and are adept at playing against the very best competition without buckling. Scholes is more than capable of getting into the nitty gritty of a midfield battle, as he will have to do, but as he is supported by an extremely solid pair in Claude and Bastian, he will also be free to dictate much of my teams passing game, something he could easily do in a two man midfield, never mind a three as strong as I have currently. Its not hard for any of us on here to imagine Scholes constantly pinging the ball out wide to Messi, left to Ronaldo, to the feet of Messi centrally or over the top for Batigol to bury.

Bastian will be providing good defensive cover and his extreme quality on the ball will also be vital when possession changes hands. Moreover, as Schweinsteiger has played much of his career on the right wing, he will be providing runs out wide right to allow Messi the freedom to move inside if he wishes. Thuram should have that wing locked down defensively so this interchange can occur as Messi and Bastian see fit usually, Messi's creative game is brilliant from the wing but he also thrives coming off the wing into the centre where he can slip balls through to Batigol and Roanldo and link up neatly with another supreme passer, Scholes. When in possession and Messi moves inside my formation could resemble something like this:

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Makelele Scholes​

Bastian---Messi---Ronaldo​

Batigol​

However, Messi’s starting position will be on the right, a position from which he scored 40 goals and won the ballon dor. This is because Batigol is in the central striker position, Maradona describing him as the best striker he has ever seen. Him, Messi and Roanldo will prove too much for any defence, particularly with a solid midfield like mine to back them up. Messi on the wing is a devastating prospect as it leaves a fullback exposed to him one on one, a battle which Messi is more than likely to win, forcing the opposition cbs out of position and leaving room for Batigol, Ronaldo and late runs of Bastian and in particular Scholes into the box

 

[Theon]

Player Profiles

Pepe Reina - a safe and reliable pair of hands, Reina won the premier leagues golden glove award three years in a row from 05-08, keeping clean sheets in more than half of his first 200 games.

Denis Irwin -best known for his long and successful stint at Manchester United, where he established himself as one of the most important players in the United team that won a host of domestic and European trophies in his time there between 1990 and 2002. He has been regarded by Alex Ferguson as pound for pound his greatest ever signing. Comfortable on either foot and had a great balance between being defensively sound and helping out his wing partner with attacking contributions.

Roberto Ayala - Regarded as one of the best central defenders of his generation, Ayala captained the Argentine national team for more matches (63) than anyone. He played in three World Cups and made a total 115 international appearances, with only Javier Zanetti getting more caps for Argentina.

Walter Samuel - Samuel has been regarded as one of football's toughest defenders, with teammate and Inter captain Javier Zanetti referring to him as the "hardest player" he has played with. Gifted with natural power and pace, Samuel played a key role in Inter's treble success in the 2009–10 season under José Mourinho and has accumulated over 50 caps for the Argentine national team. His strong, uncompromising style of play has earnt him the nickname Il Muro ("The Wall").

Lilian Thuram - the most capped player in the history of the France national team, and one of the twenty most capped players of all time, he is widely regarded as one of the best RBs to ever play the game, and the best defensive RB ever.

Claude Makelele - considered one of the greatest defensive midfielders of all time, so much so that many have dubbed the position 'the Makelele role'. When Real sold him and bought Beckham, this is what Zidane had to say "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?"

Bastian Schweinsteiger - Dubbed the "Midfield Motor", Schweinsteiger is also a superb reader of the game and has scored spectacularly due to his good positioning. He has been called "the brain" of the German national team by his coach Joachim Löw and is a key component of the treble winning Bayern team.

Paul Scholes - Needs little introduction, regarding by his peers as one of the best and most complete midfielders of his generation.

Lionel Messi - Needs no introduction, arguably the greatest of all time.

Cristiano Ronaldo - One of the greatest of all time, both for Manchester Utd and Real Madrid.

Gabriel Batistuta - he is Argentina's all-time leading goalscorer, with 56 goals in 78 national team matches, with an all-round game with clinical finishing, heading and free-kick taking abilities, he is known as one of the most complete strikers of his generation. Diego Maradona has also said that Batistuta is the best striker he has ever seen play the game.

Substitues:

Thomas Muller - the most versatile and one of the most effective players in the game today, Muller was vital to the treble winning Bayern team. Müller plays as a midfielder orforward, and has been deployed in a variety of attacking roles—as an attacking midfielder,second striker, and on either wing. He has been praised for his pace, technique and composure, and has shown consistency in scoring and creating goals.

Pablo Aimar - one of the most gifted number tens of his generation, he is a fantastic playmaker, with great vision, passing and shot.

Andreas Moller - He was a playmaker known for his range of passing and goalscoring ability and a vital part of the success of the German national team and Dortmund during the mid 90's.

David Villa - Equally at ease as a striker or as a wing forward, Villa is one of the best and most successful players of his generation. He has played a key part in winning every trophy possible for his club and country, and is currently the leading goalscorer for the Spanish national team.

 

[Moby]

What's the big reason of swapping the two wide men? Just to let Dinho away from Thuram and target the weaker fullback of the two even when Nedved is times more two footed and a lot more suitable to play on the right?

 

[NM]

What's the big reason of swapping the two wide men? Just to let Dinho away from Thuram and target the weaker fullback of the two even when Nedved is times more two footed and a lot more suitable to play on the right?

?? I may be wrong, but I remember Nedved playing mostly from the left...

 

[Moby]

?? I may be wrong, but I remember Nedved playing mostly from the left...

Yeah obviously he did but out of the two he should be the one on the right when he's had a lot more ability to do that role better considering he was tremendously two footed. It is what Gio did last game.

 

[Theon]

Gio's team is just ridiculous

I can see what Aldo is saying about Nedved, but I suspect the opposition of Thuram/Irwin played a part there - Ronaldinho would tear Irwin a new one (he would most fullbacks)

 

[Thisistheone]

Gio's team is amazing. Fergus's front three - ridiculous. What a match this should be.

p.s. Ronnie on that side as Gio is probably aware of how he was treated when Cutch/Snow played Fergus/Thuram

 

[NM]

Wonder how many people are just going to see Messi and Ronaldo in one team and vote..

 

[antohan]

Yeah obviously he did but out of the two he should be the one on the right when he's had a lot more ability to do that role better considering he was tremendously two footed. It is what Gio did last game.

Gio mentions Nedved's defensive contribution on the Messi flank. Not sure what to make of that. If anything I'd say he is more necessary tracking back on the right with Irwin being the more attacking of Fergus' fullbacks.

I'm not very keen on the Schweinsteiger turns into a RW with Messi going centrally thing. I can see how it could be done on occasions to upset man-to-man details but over periods of time, not every time they get possession suddenly having some sort of merry-go-round. I can see the value in Messi drifting in and Schweinsteiger occupying that space but would be concerned about how fragile a Makelele/Scholes pair could be on the counter.

Just writing as I wrap my head around it though. Off the top of my head, Gio's case that it boils down to the striker vs. CB pair disparity is simple and compelling.

 

[antohan]

Gio's team is amazing. Fergus's front three - ridiculous. What a match this should be.

p.s. Ronnie on that side as Gio is probably aware of how he was treated when Cutch/Snow played Fergus/Thuram

Yeah, Fergus himself acknowledged with that simple switch he would have lost. It was Tarnat and not Irwin though.

 

[NM]

I want to vote Fergus but reckon Irwin and Samuel will be torn a new one. Never rated Samuel. I also honestly think that Ronnie Rivaldo Nedved and Romario is at least equal to Batistuta Messi and C Ronaldo.

 

[antohan]

Wonder how many people are just going to see Messi and Ronaldo in one team and vote..

Judging by early trigger-pulling? Loads. 2-0 already.

 

[Fergus' son]

Romario up front by himself, again? He's going to be far less effective than usual, especially with Makelele tight to Rivaldo.

 

[Thisistheone]

Yep, Messi-Ronaldo probably the ultimate casual vote winner. Like playing with a 5 vote head start at least?

 

[Fergus' son]

I want to vote Fergus but reckon Irwin and Samuel will be torn a new one. Never rated Samuel. I also honestly think that Ronnie Rivaldo Nedved and Romario is at least equal to Batistuta Messi and C Ronaldo.

Samuel was brilliant for Mourinhos Inter Milan team.

Yeah, Fergus himself acknowledged with that simple switch he would have lost. It was Tarnat and not Irwin though.

Huge difference, yeah.

Gio mentions Nedved's defensive contribution on the Messi flank. Not sure what to make of that. If anything I'd say he is more necessary tracking back on the right with Irwin being the more attacking of Fergus' fullbacks.

I'm not very keen on the Schweinsteiger turns into a RW with Messi going centrally thing. I can see how it could be done on occasions to upset man-to-man details but over periods of time, not every time they get possession suddenly having some sort of merry-go-round. I can see the value in Messi drifting in and Schweinsteiger occupying that space but would be concerned about how fragile a Makelele/Scholes pair could be on the counter.

Just writing as I wrap my head around it though. Off the top of my head, Gio's case that it boils down to the striker vs. CB pair disparity is simple and compelling.

Don't read too much into RW stuff, it's just a case of Messi having the licence to do so knowing that there is the option for a simple ball out to Bastian on the right if need be and that Thuram won't be ridiculously exposed (though Thuram needs the least protection out of any full back in this draft)

 

[Aboutreika18]

You still have the Ayala-Samuel-Reina triangle at the back?

Gio for me.

 

[Fergus' son]

Yep, Messi-Ronaldo probably the ultimate casual vote winner. Like playing with a 5 vote head start at least?

For good reason though, arguably the best player of all time and one of the most consistent players of all time.

 

[antohan]

I want to vote Fergus but reckon Irwin and Samuel will be torn a new one. Never rated Samuel. I also honestly think that Ronnie Rivaldo Nedved and Romario is at least equal to Batistuta Messi and C Ronaldo.

Indeed. Versus Samuel-Ayala and Vidic-Rio.

I would rate both Zanetti and Thuram as players who will shut out their respective threats. Gio gets an advantage there in that Ronnie would be the more potent one and I can see him well handled.

On the other flank though I can see Messi giving Zambrotta a harder time than Ronnie to Irwin. Yes, Samuel is not the best here, but then Vidic is not the best to deal with Messi if he breaks through...

I do think the creation, vision and passing in Gio's AM trio is ideally suited to a Romario who is a complete mismatch for that specific pair of defenders. I'm sure he will score, probably a couple. Question is how heavily Messi will weigh in this game. Not sure if as heavily TBH.

 

[antohan]

Romario up front by himself, again? He's going to be far less effective than usual, especially with Makelele tight to Rivaldo.

You may be overdoing this with the support he has, all three can play THAT ball and two can pile up/drag defenders around for fun. I do agree if any of those three behind him could put himself about a bit that would be handy for Romario in certain games. Not sure about this one though because he will just rape that CB pair, literally. I can't see either keeping up with him at all.

Batistuta on the other hand is facing an awesome defensive pair. Vidic would keep him in his pocket physically and Rio in terms of movement and anticipating danger. That's why i reckon it boils down to whether Messi can impact this game as much as not just Ronnie, but Romario/Rivaldo at the other end.

 

[Fergus' son]

Lots of crap about how rubbish my CBs are, Gio himself said previously that he believes my CB pairing to be as good as the Terry/Carvalho partnership which I faced in round one, and I have the additional protection of Thuram and Makelele.

In Makelele, Thuram and Irwin, I have three players that are not required to contribute significantly to my attacking, and each can concentrate on trying to nullify a key opposition threat, Makelele with Rivaldo, Thuram with Nedved (though if Nedved is defending a lot then he can chip in and help Ayala and Samuel a lot more), and Irwin on Ronaldinho. On the other hand, Gio has two attacking full backs dealing with arguably the two best players in the draft.

 

[Interval]

Antohan, Whilst I don't rate Samuel much, Ayala was, IIRC, every bit as good in his prime as Rio. Rio just maintained it longer and hence a better player. I don't rate Zambrotta against Messi. Zambrotta can be a bit clumsy. Plus, Rio and Vidic may have to contend with Ronaldo drifting in and may be a hell of a problem. Scholes pings balls onto either wings at will. On the other hand, I rate Thuram and Irwin much much higher. Plus you have Makelele who is essentially a defender to help out Samuel and Ayala.

 

[antohan]

Antohan, Whilst I don't rate Samuel much, Ayala was, IIRC, every bit as good in his prime as Rio. Rio just maintained it longer and hence a better player. I don't rate Zambrotta against Messi. Zambrotta can be a bit clumsy. Plus, Rio and Vidic may have to contend with Ronaldo drifting in and may be a hell of a problem. Scholes pings balls onto either wings at will. On the other hand, I rate Thuram and Irwin much much higher. Plus you have Makelele who is essentially a defender to help out Samuel and Ayala.

I rate Ayala, but Romario isn't the ideal striker for him to handle. Romario's quick thinking, movement and burst of pace was something else. I'm still not clear on how the dynamics of the game would work in terms of how deep each side would be defending, etc.

Agree on Zambrotta, the poorest fullback dealing with the hardest task, no doubt. But as Gio pointed out, Chelsea handled him with Bosingwa. That was part of a collective defensive effort though, which is again where the dynamics of the game are crucial and I haven't wrapped my head around them yet.

Re: Makelele, he is taking care of Rivaldo and pretty well I'd expect but just like we can expect Ronaldo to have some sort of impact despite Zanetti, the same applies to Rivaldo and Makelele.

 

[antohan]

Busy with WW though right now. Will come back later and try to think about this in more depth.

 

[Fergus' son]

I also think that I have better passers in deeper areas of my team. With Makelele on Rivaldo, it leaves Scholes/Bastian in comparison to Mauro/Viera. My two are the more progressive passers and can find my attackers at will. Imagine Scholes and Bastian having the option of Ronaldo and Messi either side to ping the ball out to, we are all aware of Scholes doing it for Utd (the link with Ronaldo here will help) and Bastian did it very successfully last year with Ribery and Robben.

 

[Theon]

Plus you have Makelele who is essentially a defender to help out Samuel and Ayala.

He needs to be on Rivaldo though, he's probably the best AM at supporting the striker in the game

Even then I can't see Makelele sticking with him all the time because Rivaldo will break past him into CB territory

 

[crappycraperson]

Irwin being underrated here. Fergus's CBs may be weak compared to Gio but they have Makelele to help them out.

I like Gio's defense but then I see they are up against that front three. Not to mention Scholes and Schwein are both more than capable of joining in.

I guess for me it came down to not rating Ronaldinhio as much as others on this forum/draft. I enjoyed watching him play but I would always pick Messi and Ronaldo over him. And here both of them are in the same team.

 

[Fergus' son]

That's the problem, Irwin will always be underrated IMO.

 

[Gio]

Lots of crap about how rubbish my CBs are, Gio himself said previously that he believes my CB pairing to be as good as the Terry/Carvalho partnership which I faced in round one, and I have the additional protection of Thuram and Makelele.

I rate Ayala, he was brilliant in the air and a sound reader of the game, but vulnerable to the sort of threat Romario poses. Samuel is the worst centre-half left in the competition. Romario is the ideal player to expose their collective weaknesses.

Romario up front by himself, again? He's going to be far less effective than usual, especially with Makelele tight to Rivaldo.

He's part of a tight and complementary front three - that argument is dead here as far as I'm concerned. Look at him link up here with other players in a similar set-up:

 

[Fergus' son]

Stoichkov was great with Romario true, but you don't have Stoichkov. You have Nedved who is instructed to do a lot of defending, Rivaldo being heavily marked by Rivaldo, and Ronaldinho who is brilliant but a different type of threat.

Romario works best with a proper strike partner (that isn't marked by Makelele), you don't have that.

 

[sun_tzu]

Messi ronnie and battigoal vs taffarel

Both good teams but cant imagine team fergus scoring less goals

 

[Gio]

Stoichkov was great with Romario true, but you don't have Stoichkov. You have Nedved who is instructed to do a lot of defending, Rivaldo being heavily marked by Rivaldo, and Ronaldinho who is brilliant but a different type of threat.

Romario works best with a proper strike partner (that isn't marked by Makelele), you don't have that.

Romario played for Barcelona in the centre of three-man attacks. He linked up well with Stoichkov but they were never a traditional duo up front with the Bulgarian stuck to a flank to keep the width. Inevitably Romario won't plough a lonely furrow in the same way that Drogba would for example, but he is not being asked to do anything like that here. He's part of a fluid, forward-facing and interchanging front three. Rivaldo is the ideal man to play as the second striker off Romario: it wouldn't work so well if that was Zidane there for example. And he's better than Stoichkov ever was although they share many of the same talismanic and left-footed qualities. It's a non-argument to suggest Romario won't play well unless he's alongside Bebeto or Stoichkov. I don't recall Batistuta playing very often without a strike partner - whether that was Chiesa, Bilbao or Baiano - to do a lot of his dirty work.

 

[Gio]

That's the problem, Irwin will always be underrated IMO.

I can't see that ever happening on this forum. Elsewhere yes, but not here, especially with our large Irish contingent. As NM voiced the thoughts of many when he was surprisingly selected in the all-time draft:

Let me put it this way - if this was not a Unite forum - there was no way Irwin would be in this draft. That's just my opnion.

Irwin's a fine full-back, one of the very best in the Premiership era. But dealing with a prime Ronaldinho, his range of trickery, strength and acceleration, is a hell of an ask with, in all likelihood, no support from Ronaldo and back-up from Samuel questionable at best.

 

[Fergus' son]

Romario played for Barcelona in the centre of three-man attacks. He linked up well with Stoichkov but they were never a traditional duo up front with the Bulgarian stuck to a flank to keep the width. Inevitably Romario won't plough a lonely furrow in the same way that Drogba would for example, but he is not being asked to do anything like that here. He's part of a fluid, forward-facing and interchanging front three. Rivaldo is the ideal man to play as the second striker off Romario: it wouldn't work so well if that was Zidane there for example. And he's better than Stoichkov ever was although they share many of the same talismanic and left-footed qualities. It's a non-argument to suggest Romario won't play well unless he's alongside Bebeto or Stoichkov. I don't recall Batistuta playing very often without a strike partner - whether that was Chiesa, Bilbao or Baiano - to do a lot of his dirty work.

Yeah that was the point, that with Rivaldo marked by Makelele there will be less support for Romario and he will suffer as a result. I'm sure Batistuta will be fine, his forward partners score 100 goals a season between them and Batigol was far more than a poacher, his build up play will be ideal linking up with Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[Fergus' son]

I can't see that ever happening on this forum. Elsewhere yes, but not here, especially with our large Irish contingent. As NM voiced the thoughts of many when he was surprisingly selected in the all-time draft:


Irwin's a fine full-back, one of the very best in the Premiership era. But dealing with a prime Ronaldinho, his range of trickery, strength and acceleration, is a hell of an ask with, in all likelihood, no support from Ronaldo and back-up from Samuel questionable at best.

The Irish contingent and the older Utd fans will rate him accordingly, the rest will underate him.

 

[Aboutreika18]

You can't have Messi and Ronaldo playing to full potential in the same side, one of those will have to play a peripheral role IMO or you will be exposed on the wings, which you kind of already are with Ronaldo's lack of tracking back.

 

[NM]

You can't have Messi and Ronaldo playing to full potential in the same side, one of those will have to play a peripheral role IMO or you will be exposed on the wings, which you kind of already are with Ronaldo's lack of tracking back.

Agree with this.. But then Nedved probably won't get much of the ball in Gio's team. Ronaldinho and Rivaldo are much more demanding.. Surprisingly, I would love to watch Gio's team play in real life a lot more than Fergus'. Still both top teams though.

 

[Theon]

I think Cesc possibly could have started here

I see Makelele as being way too occupied with the movement of Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Nedved who will all be getting into that space in front on Samuel and Ayala for him to ever vacate it and push up into midfield.

Makelele is surely playing as a very clear DM in this game, he needs to, and I can see Fergus' team sitting quite deep

Due to that I think Cesc/Viera is more than capable of controlling the middle against Schweinsteiger/Scholes and I would love to see Cesc's passing linking up with those forwards.

It's close though, I can see why Gio has opted for the extra stability of Mauro but Fergus doesn't really have a player operating in the hole that I can see, unlike Rivaldo on his team. So I don't think that central defensive stability is as important as it is for Fergus, and Cesc's passing range would give a new dimension to Gio's attack

 

[Gio]

Yeah that was the point, that with Rivaldo marked by Makelele there will be less support for Romario and he will suffer as a result. I'm sure Batistuta will be fine, his forward partners score 100 goals a season between them and Batigol was far more than a poacher, his build up play will be ideal linking up with Messi and Ronaldo.

It's whether Makelele can deal with Rivaldo. Going on his peak form and previous experience, I think it's unlikely. For example, look how Keane and Stam struggled with him in 1998/99, or Gattuso and Costacurta in 2000/01, or Ayala, Albelda and Baraja whenever Valencia came to town.

Or how Rivaldo tore apart Makelele and the rest of Real in 2000, grabbing a double and having a hat-trick dubiously ruled for offside: