Redcafe Drafting League Game Thread

[green_smiley]

Injury list

1: cubemine - 1) K. Navas 2) J. Lehmann 3) P. Cech 4) D. Santos 5) L. Blanc 6) N. Vidic 7) Z. Zidane 8) S. Gerrard 9) N. Kante 10) D. Villa 11) S. Matthews 12) L. Suarez 13) S. Eto'o 14) J. Alba 15) Neymar 16) Z. Roberto 17) V. van Dijk 18) W. Suurbier 19) G. Silva 20) E. Petit 21) G. Pique 22) M. Castro 23) K. Deyna

2: Swarm - 1) J. Oblak 2) A. Kopke 3) F. Planicka 4) R. Carlos 5) C. Puyol 6) T. Burgnich 7) A. Vidal 8) S. Mazzola 9) A. Pirlo 10) A. Robben 11) S. Kocsis 12) Z. Czibor 13) A. Picchi 14) M. Silva 15) H-G Schwarzenbeck 16) X. Alonso 17) J. da Costa 18) G. Nordahl 19) Branco 20) R. Ferri 21) L. Skoglund 22) N. Liedholm 23) A. Ondrus

3: harms - 1) R. Zamora 2) A. Carrizo 3) Y. Rudakov 4) Cafu 5) B. Moore 6) K-H Schnellinger 7) B. Robson 8) Rivellino 9) J. Tigana 10) U. Seeler 11) F. Totti 12) K. Hamrin 13) S. Campbell 14) A. Demyanenko 15) R. Perfumo 16) P. Littbarski 17) G. Mendieta 18) C. Panucci 19) J. Heynckes 20) S. Lerby 21) J. Klinsmann 22) Park Ji Sung 23) N. Stiles

5: MJJ - 1) P. Schmeichel 2) D. de Gea 3) R. Carroll 4) V. Vasovic 5) E. Gerets 6) A. Brehme 7) Didi 8) B. Schuster 9) O. Varela 10) Eusebio 11) G. Weah 12) T. Henry 13) J. Nasazzi 14) L. Monti 15) I. Netto 16) W. Sagnol 17) R. Ayala 18) P. Evra 19) G. Chiellini 20) Jorginho 21) W. Zmuda 22) V. Mazzola 23) B. Hulshoff

6: Chesterlestreet - 1) U. Fillol 2) A. Zubizarreta 3) T. N'Kono 4) A. Cabrini 5) V. Bezsonov 6) B. Wright 7) D. Edwards 8) M. Tardelli 9) Zito 10) G. Lato 11) J. Greaves 12) Z. Boniek 13) R. Israël 14) F. Albert 15) A. Hansen 16) D. McGrain 17) Gérson 18) T. Cubillas 19) M. Zagallo 20) A. Ball 21) T. Gemmell 22) R. Rosato 23) J. A. Schiaffino

7: BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 1) Gilmar 2) S. Rossi 3) Alisson Becker 4) D. Godin 5) R. Koeman 6) M. Tassotti 7) Socrates 8) C. Makelele 9) J. Neeskens 10) J. Rep 11) Rivaldo 12) D. Bergkamp 13) D. Drogba 14). Lúcio 15) J. Charles 16) J.A. Camacho 17) D. Albertini 18) Rui Costa 19) P. Neal 20) L. Bonucci 21) A. Tarantini 22) T. Kroos 23) A. Kanchelskis

8: Indnyc - 1) G. Banks 2) S. Canizares 3) N. Southall 4) B. Lizarazu 5) F. Cannavaro 6) M. Bossis 7) D. Beckham 8) B. Charlton 9) W. van Hanegem 10) R. van Nistelrooy 11) E. Hazard 12) H. Rahn 13) M. Kaltz 14) A. Giresse 15) W. Jansen 16) D. Deschamps 17) S. Aguero 18) P. Montero 19) R. Bratseth 20) G. Gattuso 21) D. Forlan 22) D. Walker 23) P. Aimar

9: Physiocrat - 1) F. Toldo 2) P. Reina 3) N. Martyn 4) B. Vogts 5) H-P Briegel 6) K-H Forster 7) L. Figo 8) Luis Suarez Miramontes 9) U. Stielike 10) T. Finney 11) R. Baggio 12) L. Riva 13) M. Olsen 14) J. S. Veron 15) E. Francescoli 16) C. Vieri 17. J. Barnes 18) E. Cambiasso 19) O. Bergmark 20) P. Cocu 21) B. Laudrup 22) I. Cordoba 23) Y. Toure

10: Isotope - 1) S. Maier 2) A. Peruzzi 3) J. Croy 4) O. Ruggeri 5) G. Bergomi 6) F. Hierro 7) E. Davids 8) J.L. Andrade 9) M. Sammer 10) G. Muller 11) G. Meazza 12) M. Kempes 13) Marcelo 14) D. Irwin 15) G. Hagi 16) H. Sanchez 17) M. Ballack 18) Zizinho 19) Aldair 20) A. Simonsen 21) D. Simeone 22) R. Byrne 23) O. Ardiles

11: Jim Beam - 1) V. Beara 2) G. Grosics 3) H. van Breukelen 4) R. Krol 5) H. Chumpitaz 6) M. Tresor 7) L. Modric 8) B. Schweinsteiger 9) T. Cerezo 10) P. Elkjaer 11) K. Keegan 12) R. Kopa 13) B. Conti 14) G. Zambrotta 15) F. Ribery 16) R. Pires 17) C. Azpilicueta 18) E. Cantona 19) J. Segarra 20) J. Mascherano 21) H. Crespo 22) S. Barjuan 23) T. Häßler

12: Sjor Bepo - 1) O. Kahn 2) M-A ter Stegen 3) Ederson 4) D. Alves 5) R. Carvalho 6) A. Benarrivo 7) A. Iniesta 8) N. Goncalves 9) P. Scholes 10) O. Blokhin 11) Tostao 12) K-H Rummenigge 13) W. Overath 14) M. Essien 15) W. Schulz 16) D. Savicevic 17) R. Varane 18) T. Silva 19) A. Ferrer 20) Gabi 21) S. Katanec 22) H. Larsson 23) F. Jusufi

13: Skizzo - 1) R. Hellstrom 2) R. Clemence 3) B. Trautmann 4) P. McGrath 5) A. Cole 6) G. Buchwald 7) G. Souness 8) M. Coluna 9) L. Enrique 10) D. Maradona 11) Careca 12) A. Del Piero 13) C. Ferrara 14) D. De Rossi 15) S. Effenberg 16) Maicon 17) E. Abidal 18) D. Silva 19) JM Moreno 20) F. Lampard 21) V. Anderson 22) K. Dalglish 23) I. Rush

14: 2mufc0 - 1) J. Cesar 2) J.A. Iribar 3) D. Seaman 4) G. Scirea 5) C. Alberto 6) P. Vierchowod 7) R. Bonhof 8) Pirri 9) G. Netzer 10) Kaka 11) A. Shevchenko 12) P. Keizer 13) S. Marzolini 14) L. Junior 15) J. Santamaria 16) R. Donadoni 17) Raul 18) J. Johnstone 19) D. Mackay 20) G. Bale 21) E. Hughes 22) A. Shearer 23) D. Ginola

15: Michaelf777 - 1) I. Casillas 2) L. Mazurkiewicz 3) H. Schumacher 4) C. Gentile 5) Leandro 6) B. Zebec 7) F. Rijkaard 8) V. R. Andrade 9) J. Bozsik 10) J. Joya 11) A. Spencer 12) R. Gullit 13) A. Shesternyov 14) G. Hanappi 15) A. Sastre 16) R. Bochini 17) K. De Bruyne 18) E. Ocwirk 19) A. Labruna 20) K. Mbappe 21) R. Gordillo 22) J. Popluhar 23) S. Piola

 

[green_smiley]

Injury list

1: cubemine - 4) D. Santos 10) D. Villa 18) W. Suurbier 20) E. Petit 22) M. Castro

2: Swarm - 3) F. Planicka 5) C. Puyol 7) A. Vidal 8) S. Mazzola 18) G. Nordahl

3: harms - 1) R. Zamora 9) J. Tigana 15) R. Perfumo 19) J. Heynckes 22) Park Ji Sung

5: MJJ - 10) Eusebio 11) G. Weah 18) P. Evra 22) V. Mazzola 23) B. Hulshoff

6: Chesterlestreet - 2) A. Zubizarreta 3) T. N'Kono 12) Z. Boniek 13) R. Israël 17) Gérson

7: BeforeKeanetherewasRobson - 2) S. Rossi 4) D. Godin 9) J. Neeskens 10) J. Rep 19) P. Neal

8: Indnyc - 6) M. Bossis 9) W. van Hanegem 13) M. Kaltz 17) S. Aguero 19) R. Bratseth

9: Physiocrat - 2) P. Reina 8) Luis Suarez Miramontes 12) L. Riva 19) O. Bergmark 22) I. Cordoba

10: Isotope - 6) F. Hierro 9) M. Sammer 11) G. Meazza 13) Marcelo 15) G. Hagi

11: Jim Beam - 8) B. Schweinsteiger 19) J. Segarra 20) J. Mascherano 22) S. Barjuan 23) T. Häßler

12: Sjor Bepo - 8) N. Goncalves 14) M. Essien 16) D. Savicevic 21) S. Katanec 22) H. Larsson

13: Skizzo - 4) P. McGrath 5) A. Cole 10) D. Maradona 11) Careca 19) JM Moreno

14: 2mufc0 - 7) R. Bonhof 8) Pirri 10) Kaka 18) J. Johnstone 20) G. Bale

15: Michaelf777 - 4) C. Gentile 7) F. Rijkaard 9) J. Bozsik 14) G. Hanappi 18) E. Ocwirk

 

[harms]

 

[Indnyc]

@harms Charlton should have 3 goals and 4 assists.. He had a goal and 3 assists in the last match

 

[harms]

@harms Charlton should have 3 goals and 4 assists.. He had a goal and 3 assists in the last match

I'm not sure what's the issue, since he has 3 goals and 4 assists in the table.

 

[green_smiley]

It looks like Charlton had 2 assists if you look at the table differently

 

[Indnyc]

I'm not sure what's the issue, since he has 3 goals and 4 assists in the table.

Never mind.. I looked at the table in the wrong manner.. Just reading the first 3 columns made it seem like he had 3 goals and 2 assists..

 

[Swarm]

Assists have been off for a while but I didn't feel like making a fuss about it Don't think it can reasonably be expected of harms to have everything in perfect order.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Pretty busy this week, plus not at home, but will try to get on a PC before the weekend - should get it done on Friday.

 

[harms]

Assists have been off for a while but I didn't feel like making a fuss about it Don't think it can reasonably be expected of harms to have everything in perfect order.

I count every explicitly noted assist but there are many unspecified cases that are up for interpretation. Well, it's quite realistic since multiple different websites have their own assist count.

 

[Swarm]

I count every explicitly noted assist but there are many unspecified cases that are up for interpretation. Well, it's quite realistic since multiple different websites have their own assist count.

I think at some point a while back I was wondering why Mazzola only had one assist, checked my matches and found that it was off (may have been a different player). So I did what every reasonable man would do: Thought "eh, harms sucks at counting" and moved on

 

[Jim Beam]

Also pretty busy and having problems with a personal computer, will send something by Thursday.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

"No brainer really, 4-0 win for Indnyc."

Yeah, whatever....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In more important news, FF results ...

Bryan Robson 48 - 47 Indnyc



@Indnyc

 

[Indnyc]

"No brainer really, 4-0 win for Indnyc."

Yeah, whatever....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In more important news, FF results ...

Bryan Robson 48 - 47 Indnyc



@Indnyc

damn bonus points ( though i’ll take 2 Rashford goals every time I play you)

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

damn bonus points ( though i’ll take 2 Rashford goals every time I play you)

Only 1 in it.

Fixtures worked well.... once Rudiger (and Kante) back, Chelsea's defence (incl Kepa) should start to pick up some better points for you.

 

[green_smiley]

Soft reminder to submit tactics

@MJJ @2mufc0 @Chesterlestreet @Skizzo @Isotope

 

[green_smiley]

@BeforeKeanetherewasRobson @Jim Beam @Michaelf7777777

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Done.

@Skizzo Best of luck, mate!

 

[Jim Beam]

@green_smiley will send tomorrow morning.

 

[green_smiley]

Cubemine vs. Swarm

Cubemine

Due to both my right backs being injured i will be switching to a 3 at the back formation with Gerrard acting as a defensive right mid and Alba acting as a defensive left mid with Gilberto Silva playing in the role he did during the 2002 world cup protecting the center backs and Kante acting as a box to box midfeidler.

Swarm

After being the jack of all trades for all the past gameweeks injury has finally struck trusty old Sandro but he will be properly replaced by Liedholm in the centre of my offense. Aside from that not much has changed in my 4-2-3-1. The left flank will be the more offensive one with Roberto Carlos overlapping Czibor and both putting in crosses for Kocsis to put away. Jair on the other side will also put in crosses but will try less to go for goal himself than Czibor but will also help out defensively. At right back I have Burgnich playing a more defensive role than Carlos as well. At centre back I have Schwarzenbeck as a stopper and Picchi as the sweeper opening up play from the back. In midfield Pirlo will be distributing passes with Mauro Silva giving him the necessary defensive backing. Additionally in goal Jan Oblak will give his debut filling in for Planicka.

Spoiler: Results

'8 - Gerrard brings the ball forward on the right. He's looking for the long diagonal to Suarez, but Suarez gets outjumped by Picchi

'15 - The game is quite balanced in the middle of the park, Kante doing a good job of shutting down Pirlo.

'35 - Gerrard advances with the ball again down the right, he looks for Suarez again, but Carlos nicks in and takes the ball of him. He slips in Czibor down the left as Van Dijk comes across. He clips the ball into the box aiming for Kocsis. He rises above Blanc and nods it in. 1-0

HT

'49 - Alba plays a reverse ball to Zidane who faces up Silva. He rolls the ball one side to Suarez and collects the return on the other, leaving Silva stranded. Picchi comes to meet him, but that's all Eto'o needs to trigger his run in behind. A scooped pass, picks him out perfectly and he slides it far corner. 1-1

'65 - The game has slowed considerably, these teams are well matched and cancelling each other out for much of the game.

'81 - Carlos is on the ball near the half way line. He plays it inside to Pirlo, which sets Czibor off running in behind. Gerard tracks his runner well though. Carlos is screaming for the ball back and Pirlo lays it off to him. Carlos is completely free to line up his cross to Kocsis. This time Van Dijk and Vidic attack the ball and manage to get it clear.

1-1 Full time.

 

[green_smiley]

@cubemine @Swarm

 

[Swarm]

Draw seems fair I guess. I feel like Pirlo is not having much of an impact in any of my games, I may be overrating him a bit here.

 

[Jim Beam]

Draw seems fair I guess. I feel like Pirlo is not having much of an impact in any of my games, I may be overrating him a bit here.

Your feeling is right. You could put a tree and it would have more influence then Pirlo in draft games. Why? Feck knows.

Not sure about that arrow on him in this particular game, but generally speaking it is a strange case really.

Saying that, draw seems fair here as you say.

 

[Swarm]

Your feeling is right. You could put a tree and it would have more influence then Pirlo in draft games. Why? Feck knows.

Not sure about that arrow on him in this particular game, but generally speaking it is a strange case really.

Saying that, draw seems fair here as you say.

My arrows in the teamsheets are mostly a style choice because all the cool kids are doing it I guess in this case it is less to indicate movement and more to say "yeah he's gonna pass roughly that way". The thing is that I am fielding Mauro Silva specifically to give Pirlo the freedom he needs to fulfill his DLP role and it seems to be a bit of a waste. Depending on injuries I might try my luck with a Xabi Alonso/Vidal pairing next time.

 

[P-Nut]

Draw seems fair I guess. I feel like Pirlo is not having much of an impact in any of my games, I may be overrating him a bit here.

To be fair he's against Kante here who would be one of my first choices to shut him down.

 

[P-Nut]

Sorry I've not been around much lately by the way, had some real life issues. Thanks to @green_smiley for running it and @harms for keeping a table updated.

 

[Jim Beam]

I guess in this case it is less to indicate movement and more to say "yeah he's gonna pass roughly that way"

Oh that's a new one

To be fair he's against Kante here who would be one of my first choices to shut him down.

Kante is better when the team seats deeper, breaking and starting counters. If you give him duty to go after Pirlo he would just dragg him deep and out of position freeing others. That's mostly the problem with shutting down Pirlo.

Just the way I see it.

 

[P-Nut]

Kante is better when the team seats deeper, breaking and starting counters. If you give him duty to go after Pirlo he would just dragg him deep and out of position freeing others. That's mostly the problem with shutting down Pirlo.

Just the way I see it.

Looking at the midfield though he's free to follow him everywhere as it's set up man for man really.

 

[2mufc0]

Soft reminder to submit tactics

@MJJ @2mufc0 @Chesterlestreet @Skizzo @Isotope

Won't be able to do anything until the weekend. If you need it sooner I can send it in text form and someone can put it on sharemytactics.com?

 

[2mufc0]

Agree with @Jim Beam, difficult to mark Prilo with a other DM when he drifts so deep. Would ruin the shape of the opposition midfield.

 

[green_smiley]

Won't be able to do anything until the weekend. If you need it sooner I can send it in text form and someone can put it on sharemytactics.com?

Weekend is fine

 

[P-Nut]

Suppose the thing for me is I don't see Kante as a DM. Sure he is always one of the 2 in a 4231, but he isn't the sitter in that duo. Usually paired with someone more capable on the ball who sits deep and cuts off space whilst Kante harries and presses everything that moves.

Against a 433 with 2 B2B, and Pirlo as the deepest player and I think the point would be correct as he'd be leaving his partner with 2 players to deal with.

Matched up against a 4231 it's man for man and he can man mark more effectively.

 

[MJJ]

Soft reminder to submit tactics

@MJJ @2mufc0 @Chesterlestreet @Skizzo @Isotope

Can remove me from the game too.

 

[Jim Beam]

Looking at the midfield though he's free to follow him everywhere as it's set up man for man really.

Aye, in this particular game someone like Vidal alongside him would be much better to use the space which would open in that case.

Still think that chasing Pirlo around is not the greatest idea.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Swarm TBH I have always felt your midfield three was off. I would prefer Pirlo deepest with a defensive B2B instead of Gilberto. It would provide a lot more dynamism and would mean less work for Liedholm to link between midfield and attack.

And yes I still think this would be better even with Picchi stepping out. On Picchi though did he ever step forward into midfield, from what I have seen he was always the deepest defender who then passed it forward rather than step out himself

 

[Swarm]

@Swarm TBH I have always felt your midfield three was off. I would prefer Pirlo deepest with a defensive B2B instead of Gilberto. It would provide a lot more dynamism and would mean less work for Liedholm to link between midfield and attack.

And yes I still think this would be better even with Picchi stepping out. On Picchi though did he ever step forward into midfield, from what I have seen he was always the deepest defender who then passed it forward rather than step out himself

I really need to rethink these arrows in my teamsheets. I haven't really done them before this so please keep that in mind. To me some of them (as is the case with both Pirlo and Picchi) are merely to indicate their "offensive mindedness" or whatever you want to call it. Both are tasked with playing more vertical passes than Silva or Schwarzenbeck who are more focused on ball winning and defending.

Maybe my mental focus on offensive vs. defensive contribution also led me to positioning Pirlo and Mauro incorrectly since Pirlo is a bit higher up the field which he probably wouldn't be in most instances. Did you just mistype when you wrote Gilberto by the way? My Silva is Mauro You may yet be right that I am lacking some dynamic elements in my DM/CM pairing that would hamper the midfield/attack link.

 

[Physiocrat]

I really need to rethink these arrows in my teamsheets. I haven't really done them before this so please keep that in mind. To me some of them (as is the case with both Pirlo and Picchi) are merely to indicate their "offensive mindedness" or whatever you want to call it. Both are tasked with playing more vertical passes than Silva or Schwarzenbeck who are more focused on ball winning and defending.

Maybe my mental focus on offensive vs. defensive contribution also led me to positioning Pirlo and Mauro incorrectly since Pirlo is a bit higher up the field which he probably wouldn't be in most instances. Did you just mistype when you wrote Gilberto by the way? My Silva is Mauro You may yet be right that I am lacking some dynamic elements in my DM/CM pairing that would hamper the midfield/attack link.

I tend to view arrows as movement forward rather than offensive passing etc.

And yes I meant Mauro Silva, either way I think my point stands about dynamism

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@Swarm

I don't think there is much wrong with the arrows and it's definitely not too much.

It's a quality team but it would probably do better in a draft with discussions since there are a lot of tactical details that matter in a Grande Inter inspired setup.

 

[Swarm]

I tend to view arrows as movement forward rather than offensive passing etc.

And yes I meant Mauro Silva, either way I think my point stands about dynamism

Yeah your view of arrows makes a lot more sense than the way I used them here I kind of did it once at the start and then didn't really change them much. For example for Carlose and Czibor they do actually indicate movement so it is all really inconsistent here, will revisit it before the next match.

And I agree to your dynamism criticism though I don't see it as too big of a problem.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Arrows, eh?

Main function in drafts: make it look like your man covers more ground - effectively - than he actually would, thus making your XI seem more...spread out.

Seriously, though - it's about the movement of the man himself, not the ball. So, in Pirlo's case above, I'd read that as him being instructed to push up frequently - into some kind of AM territory.