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How should we proceed with the midfielders thread?

  • 4 threads for defensive MF, for MF playmakers, for goalscoring CMs and for number 10s

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Stobzilla

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Inspired by our back to basics draft and me reminiscing on my days trawling the Big Soccer Forums to research players of yester year. I suggested that we make a Top 20 of players by position.

What we do with it beyond there, who knows? Whether we make the database as suggested by @Moby or we my suggested draft of no players allowed from those selected in this list, I am sure it will be fun to do in and of itself.

I imagine we will wait until the full drafting process has been completed in the back to basics game.

The categories I suggest are as follows.

Goalkeepers

Left Backs

Right Backs

Centre Backs

Defensive Midfielders

Attacking Midfielders

Wingers

Centre Forwards

There is bound to be cross over but I think that is a good starting point. Others may wish to come up with other groupings. Any and all suggestions are welcomed.

Also, Gary Kelly is definitely going in the Top 20 Right Backs.
 

harms

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Yeah, I'd create separate Sweeper/Stopper category for center backs and possibly add "forwards" to attacking midfielders or CFs. There are some players that don't really qualify as center forwards or wingers, but they were definitely not midfielders... Eusebio, Baggio, Del Piero etc.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I'd suggest removing pre war players from contention. Better not have them than dismiss them.
 

harms

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I'd suggest removing pre war players from contention. Better not have them than dismiss them.
That's a good shout. Personally, I'd even go as far as the TV era (early/mid 50's), but maybe not everyone will agree.
 

harms

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Before naming players for this. Just so it doesn't become a resource for that game's drafting process. But I suppose it doesn't matter either way.
I seriously doubt that it would matter. There are enough of such lists on the internet and we often have discussions about the players/eras at the same time as the drafting process happens, just in separate threads.

I think he did it all by himself though? Even had developed some kind of a system. It's quite good, as far as those lists go, but I obviously have different opinions on many players and I'm sure that our list would be quite a lot different.
 

Moby

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I seriously doubt that it would matter. There are enough of such lists on the internet and we often have discussions about the players/eras at the same time as the drafting process happens, just in separate threads.


I think he did it all by himself though? Even had developed some kind of a system. It's quite good, as far as those lists go, but I obviously have different opinions on many players and I'm sure that our list would be quite a lot different.
6 people started it. But it was mainly one guy. I am not sure if that is still getting updated.

We can get the categories from there or here:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-100-greatest-x-of-all-time-discussion-thread.1245347/
 

harms

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By the way, perhaps we should go all the way to 100? Obviously not everyone should submit 100 - but if we have enough submission of 40-50 names, we should have enough to fill the list closer to 100.
 

Physiocrat

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By the way, perhaps we should go all the way to 100? Obviously not everyone should submit 100 - but if we have enough submission of 40-50 names, we should have enough to fill the list closer to 100.
Why not use Big Soccer's catergories and just do a top 10 in each? That should be easier to compile and it covers all the positions.
 

harms

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Why not use Big Soccer's catergories and just do a top 10 in each? That should be easier to compile and it covers all the positions.
I meant trying to do a full top-100 for every position, which is a mammoth task, of course, but doing a top-10 is a bit pointless. The interesting stuff isn't the top-10, on which everyone pretty much agrees upon, it's the places from 20 to 50 and so on.
 

Physiocrat

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I meant trying to do a full top-100 for every position, which is a mammoth task, of course, but doing a top-10 is a bit pointless. The interesting stuff isn't the top-10, on which everyone pretty much agrees upon, it's the places from 20 to 50 and so on.
:eek:

If you want to go that deep it might be worth distinguishing the categories even more. E.g regular left-backs, left attacking/wingbacks. This might make it easier to discuss as we're comparing more like with like. Ages ago me and @Šjor Bepo came up with a list and these were the categories we used. Obviously you could distinguish between left and right sided players too.

Goalkeepers

Sweeper Keepers

Stoppers CBs

Complete CBs

Sweepers back 4

Sweepers back 3

Attacking Liberos

Defensive Full Backs

Balanced Full Backs

Attacking Full Backs

DMs

Defensive Box-to-box

Offensive Box-to-box

Goalscoring 8s

Midfield Playmakers

DLPs

10s

Wide Midfielders

Inside Forward

Traditional Winger

Playmaking Winger

Roaming winger

Creative Second-Strikers

Second-strikers

Strikers

Target Man

False Nine

Defensive Strikers
 

harms

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A minor thing to decide, but I'll put it out there as well. Can we post the same player twice in different categories? Like Breitner, who is an all-time great as a left back and as a central midfielder and should feature in both lists?
 

Moby

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Yeah. Some fields should have formulas though — like the age, that should be calculated from the player's DOB (I've changed the format so that it's seen as a date now) and the current day.
Yeah, there will be forumlas. Same for 'Total Matches/Goals/Assists' which will be summed from Club and National categories.
 

harms

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Yeah, there will be forumlas. Same for 'Total Matches/Goals/Assists' which will be summed from Club and National categories.
From the fifth try I think that I've added the age formula, looks like it works :)
 

Stobzilla

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Yeah, I think going big on this is the only way forward now.

And then the subsequent draft after it will be the draft games version of the Complete Mental Obliteration threads from the general.

 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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A minor thing to decide, but I'll put it out there as well. Can we post the same player twice in different categories? Like Breitner, who is an all-time great as a left back and as a central midfielder and should feature in both lists?
Definitely. May get different ranking for different position.

But then Ranking Messi once in RW, once as CF would be mundane.
 

Synco

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Ah, thread has already been started.

I like the idea of going big & also having a few more categories than the OP named, but not as many as in @Physiocrat's post. An advantage of having somewhat broader categories is that it reduces the problem of players who'd end up in more than one. Messi for example could simply be a "creative/playmaking forward", like Pele, Bergkamp, Ronaldinho, etc.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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If you want big lists, the best way to go is to have as less categories as possible. Not more than 6

1. Strikers (Both 9 and 9.5)
2. Wingers and wide forwards
3. Creative Midfielders (AMs, playmakers and DLPs)
4. Pivot Midfielders (B2B and DM)
5. CBs
6. Fullbacks and wingbacks
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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If you want big lists, the best way to go is to have as less categories as possible. Not more than 6

1. Strikers (Both 9 and 9.5)
2. Wingers and wide forwards
3. Creative Midfielders (AMs, playmakers and DLPs)
4. Pivot Midfielders (B2B and DM)
5. CBs
6. Fullbacks and wingbacks
Subdivisions might be nice.

As in 15 AMs and 5 DLPs
10 pivot and 10 B2Bs
10 sweeper/ball players and 10 stoppers
10 wingers and 10 wide forwards.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I'll take a crack at some:

Top 20 Centrebacks

Sweeper/Libero:

1. Beckenbauer
2. Baresi
3. Figueroa
4. Scirea
5. Passarella
6. Sammer
7. Picchi
8. Tresor
9. Krol
10. Koeman

Other CBs:

1. Bobby Moore
2. Santamaria
3. Chumpitaz
4. Nesta
5. Kohler
6. Cannavaro
7. Shesternyov
8. Rio Ferdinand
9. Oscar Ruggeri
10. Roberto Ayala
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Top 20 Right Fullbacks

Right Wingback

1. Suurbier
2. Dani Alves
3. Zambrotta
4. Maicon

Right Fullbacks

1. Cafu
2. Djalma Santos
3. B. Vogts
4. Carlos Alberto
5. JL Andrade
6. L.Thuram
7. J. Zanetti
8. P. Lahm
9. E. Gerets
10. G. Bergomi
11. C. Gentile
12. T. Burgnich
13. M. Amoros
14. D. McGrain
15. M. Kaltz
16. P. Neal
 

Synco

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No offense, but wouldn't it make sense to agree on categories first before posting rankings? Same for the question which group certain players should fall into.