RedCafe's Top 20 (30) by Position | Please check out the last threadmark

[Enigma_87]

Misunderstanding, I meant dividing each category into right and left sided players, not the distinction between classic wingers and wide forwards. So I was basically rooting for two categories instead of four.

Ah you mean right and left wing backs and right and left backs?

Yeah, no problem with that mate.

 

[harms]

I suggested that too in post #48, although I have to say it still feels better to divide fullbacks than wingers. I can't really say why

It’s much more common for attacking players to switch flanks (sometimes even during the game) to exploit opposition’s weaknesses or to change tactics, as their roles on the other wing are usually different. It’s rarely the case for fullbacks.

 

[Synco]

Ah you mean right and left wing backs and right and left backs?

Yeah, no problem with that mate.

No

I meant one bracket for all classic wingers (left & right sided) and one for all wide forwards (left & right sided). Sorry, hard to make myself clear sometimes.

Edit: Just as in my category suggestion in post #48

 

[P-Nut]

It’s much more common for attacking players to switch flanks (sometimes even during the game) to exploit opposition’s weaknesses or to change tactics, as their roles on the other wing are usually different. It’s rarely the case for fullbacks.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, if keep it to wingers, wide forwards, LB, RB etc

 

[Enigma_87]

No

I meant one bracket for all classic wingers (left & right sided) and one for all wide forwards (left & right sided). Sorry, hard to make myself clear sometimes.

Ah no in that case I’d disagree.

I’d keep it with sides.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

This has become a Top 20 positions thread.

 

[Indnyc]

Do we want to vote on positions?

 

[Physiocrat]

Do we want left and right full-backs and left and right wingers etc or just full-backs, wingers, wide forwards etc?

 

[Synco]

Do we want to vote on positions?

I think that would be good to finally move forward. I can think of two ways of doing it:

1) Vote on 3-4 complete & unalterable sets of categories. Could be done in a standard thread poll.
2) Vote on singular positions and variations (like the question in @Physiocrat's post above this one). I guess this would have to be done in a "fill out the form" way, like the Caf Awards?

First one would be quicker, second one allows for a more customized set of categories. If someone has a different/better idea, please share it.

Btw, @GodShaveTheQueen: Is your super compact list from post #34 your favoured way to do it? (= should it be included as an option to vote on, in case it's done that way?)

 

[Indnyc]

I think that would be good to finally move forward. I can think of two ways of doing it:

1) Vote on 3-4 complete & unalterable sets of categories. Could be done in a standard thread poll.
2) Vote on singular positions and variations (like the question in @Physiocrat's post above this one). I guess this would have to be done in a "fill out the form" way, like the Caf Awards?

First one would be quicker, second one allows for a more customized set of categories. If someone has a different/better idea, please share it.

Btw, @GodShaveTheQueen: Is your super compact list from post #34 your favoured way to do it? (= should it be included as an option to vote on, in case it's done that way?)

I was thinking of the first option.. Easy to do and people can vote quickly.. We have 4 or 5 options put forward by different people

 

[Synco]

I was thinking of the first option.. Easy to do and people can vote quickly.. We have 4 or 5 options put forward by different people

Sounds good to me. Let's say everybody can submit final lists in the next 2 days and the poll is created on friday?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Btw, @GodShaveTheQueen: Is your super compact list from post #34 your favoured way to do it? (= should it be included as an option to vote on, in case it's done that way?)

I dont mind any which way mate. I'll be happy to submit my choices whenever the process begins. Its your headache after that

 

[harms]

We need to agree on a few vote options and then I’ll create the poll.

 

[P-Nut]

Once we've got the position lists sorted we've got the headache of people putting players in different catergories

 

[Physiocrat]

Why don't we go for @Enigma_87 catergories with a slight name change

GK's

Sweepers/Ball playing defenders

Stoppers/Center backs

Left Backs

Right Backs

Defensive Midfielders (Anchors, Destroyers,etc)

Deep Lying Playmakers (the likes of Pirlo, Xavi, late Schuster)

Box To Box

Attacking Midfielders/ #10's / Advanced playmakers

Left wingers

Right Wingers

Left wing forwards

Right wing forwards

Creative central forwards

Strikers/centre forwards

 

[Gio]

Once we've got the position lists sorted we've got the headache of people putting players in different catergories

Probably worth clarifying who should go where before we start listing out - can see the two CB categories and the 10/9.5 categories being where the main confusion might lie.

 

[Theon]

Why don't we go for @Enigma_87 catergories with a slight name change

GK's

Sweepers/Ball playing defenders

Stoppers/Center backs

Left Backs

Right Backs

Defensive Midfielders (Anchors, Destroyers,etc)

Deep Lying Playmakers (the likes of Pirlo, Xavi, late Schuster)

Box To Box

Attacking Midfielders/ #10's / Advanced playmakers

Left wingers

Right Wingers

Left wing forwards

Right wing forwards

Creative central forwards

Strikers/centre forwards

How many players are you putting in each? Definitely too many categories imo.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Moving in circles, I agree to sort this out with a poll

We need to agree on a few vote options and then I’ll create the poll.

Maybe 6, 10 and 15 as options

1. Strikers (Both 9 and 9.5)
2. Wingers and wide forwards
3. Creative Midfielders (AMs, playmakers and DLPs)
4. Pivot Midfielders (B2B and DM)
5. CBs
6. Fullbacks and wingbacks

Goalkeepers

Sweepers

Center Backs *

Left Backs **

Right Backs **

DMs

Box-to-box CMs ***

Midfield Playmakers & #10s ****

Traditional Wingers

Wide Forwards

Creative/Playmaking Forwards

Strikers

GK's

Sweepers/Ball playing defenders

Stoppers/Center backs

Left Backs

Right Backs

Defensive Midfielders (Anchors, Destroyers,etc)

Deep Lying Playmakers (the likes of Pirlo, Xavi, late Schuster)

Box To Box

Attacking Midfielders/ #10's / Advanced playmakers

Left wingers

Right Wingers

Left wing forwards

Right wing forwards

Creative central forwards

Strikers/centre forwards

 

[Physiocrat]

New idea. Go with Synco's but add DLP to the list and possibly replace left and right backs with full-back and attacking full-back. It would be comparing more like with like.

 

[harms]

New idea. Go with Synco's but add DLP to the list and possibly replace left and right backs with full-back and attacking full-back. It would be comparing more like with like.

Nah, we shouldn’t separate attacking and balanced fullbacks, there will be endless debates about which ones are which.

 

[Physiocrat]

Nah, we shouldn’t separate attacking and balanced fullbacks, there will be endless debates about which ones are which.

Ok, then let's go with Synco's with midfield playmakers (I think that's a bit for descriptive than DLP in many cases) distinguished from 10s

 

[Indnyc]

Moving in circles, I agree to sort this out with a poll



Maybe 6, 10 and 15 as options

This sounds reasonable. If anyone else wants to put a new list we can add it to the poll

 

[Theon]

I’d have wingers and wide forwards as the same category - split between right sided players and left sided players.

 

[2mufc0]

Can someone put together some sort of spreadsheet for votes?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I’d have wingers and wide forwards as the same category - split between right sided players and left sided players.

I sort of like the idea of having all wingers in same category.

Matthews for example should be ahead of Giggs in the list. At the end of the day, they are all doing the same job albeit from different sides.

 

[Theon]

I sort of like the idea of having all wingers in same category.

Matthews for example should be ahead of Giggs in the list. At the end of the day, they are all doing the same job albeit from different sides.

Left wing / right wing is a proper positional distinction so I think they should be separate - whereas a winger being an inside forward or a touch-line hugging player is a distinction based on playing style as opposed to position which is why I’d lump all right wingers in the same positional category.

 

[2mufc0]

Left wing / right wing is a proper positional distinction so I think they should be separate - whereas a winger being an inside forward or a touch-line hugging player is a distinction based on playing style as opposed to position which is why I’d lump all right wingers in the same positional category.

Agree with this, left/right should be different categories.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

few sites already done this, cant we just use their categories?

 

[harms]

few sites already done this, cant we just use their categories?

We can, we just have to agree on which ones to use.

 

[Enigma_87]

TBH my reasoning behind separating wing forwards and wingers is due to comparing players like Figo, Garrincha and Best to Messi, C. Ronaldo and Kalle. We have a very deep pool historically to divide it into pools as both types bring different propositions to the table - much like having a defensive midfielder/anchor and DLP, despite occupying the same position on the field..

 

[harms]

TBH my reasoning behind separating wing forwards and wingers is due to comparing players like Figo, Garrincha and Best to Messi, C. Ronaldo and Kalle. We have a very deep pool historically to divide it into pools as both types bring different propositions to the table - much like having a defensive midfielder/anchor and DLP, despite occupying the same position on the field..

Agree.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

https://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/

I usually use this to refresh my memory, think they did a good job regarding categories.

You can even make it shorter with creating just one category for all CBs, pairing up attacking mids and deep-lying forwards as well as strikers and target mans. So:

Keepers
Right Back
Left Back
Centerback
DM
B2B
Playmaker(both DM and CM)
Attacking Mid(id have Bergkamp, Cantona, Totti here alongside likes of Iniesta and co.)
Right Wing
Left Wing
Forwards(strikers + likes of Ronaldo, Messi etc.)

 

[Gio]

Left wing / right wing is a proper positional distinction so I think they should be separate - whereas a winger being an inside forward or a touch-line hugging player is a distinction based on playing style as opposed to position which is why I’d lump all right wingers in the same positional category.

Yeah inclined to agree with this.

 

[Theon]

TBH my reasoning behind separating wing forwards and wingers is due to comparing players like Figo, Garrincha and Best to Messi, C. Ronaldo and Kalle. We have a very deep pool historically to divide it into pools as both types bring different propositions to the table - much like having a defensive midfielder/anchor and DLP, despite occupying the same position on the field..

Yeah it’s interesting - not sure there’s a perfect way.

For me Cristiano should be in the winger catageory but I don’t think Rummenigge or Messi should - both were central players as well as ‘wide forwards’ and should be in the #9.5 / second striker category (or whatever name is given to it).

If a wing forward is someone who drifts wide then you’ve got the likes of Baggio or Del Piero who did that.

If you look at someone like Ronaldinho as an example, he should be in the left wing positional category as that’s the position he took up on the field at his peak, but he was still scoring at a better than 1 in 2 strike rate - so I think you can have left or right wingers who still score high numbers (Robben another recent example).

I don’t think there’s any problem comparing Ronaldinho / Cristiano to Best / Garrincha. Agree it gets muddled if you add strikers who play wide like Rumminegge, but they shouldn’t be there imo.

 

[Gio]

To try and get some consensus now, it might be worth scoping out where the following should be categorised:

Cristiano Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Messi
Stoichkov
Blokhin
Czibor
Robben
Kubala
Neymar
Hamrin
Jairzinho
Bale

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Cristiano Ronaldo Utd winger, Madrid/Juve forward
Ronaldinho attacking mid/winger
Messi f9 forward, Enrique and current attacking mid/winger
Stoichkov forward
Blokhin forward
Czibor winger
Robben winger
Kubala forward
Neymar attacking mid/winger
Hamrin forward
Jairzinho forward
Bale spurs winger, madrid forward

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

All should go into the macro "forwards" category. If we want further subdivisions, we can go with CF, WF and SS.

Cristiano Ronaldo - Wing Forward
Stoichkov - Wing Forward
Blokhin - Wing Forward
Neymar - Wing Forward
Hamrin - Wing Forward
Jairzinho - Wing Forward
Bale - Wing Forward
Czibor - Wing Forward
Robben - Wing Forward
.
Ronaldinho - Supporting Striker / AM
Messi - Wing Forward / AM
Kubala - Supporting Striker

The difference between WF and Winger also has lots of overlaps. If they had played wide during their peak in the attacking trio of a 4-3-3 then they get to be WF. If not clear or has played multiple positions, then we can use their goal:game ratio. It above 0.50 then they get to be WF, else Wingers.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Definition:
- Wing Forwards: Must have played wide in 4-3-3 (or) be a wide player with goal:game ratio of 0.50 or greater.
- Wingers: Any other wide players who don't match above criteria.

 

[Physiocrat]

Cristiano Ronaldo - wide forward
Ronaldinho - central creative forward
Messi - central creative forward
Stoichkov - wide forward
Blokhin - wide forward
Czibor - wide forward
Robben - winger
Kubala - wide forward/ central creative forward (not sure)
Neymar - creative central forward
Hamrin - winger
Jairzinho - wide forward at world cup, central creative forward at club level
Bale - wide forward

 

[harms]

Cristiano Ronaldo wing forward
Ronaldinho creative forward (would go to either SS or AM list)
Messi creative forward (would go to either SS or AM list)
Stoichkov wing forward
Blokhin wing forward
Czibor winger
Robben winger
Kubala supporting striker
Neymar wing forward
Hamrin wing forward
Jairzinho wing forward
Bale wing forward (winger in younger days)