Refereeing/VAR at the World Cup

Grande said:
I thought the stamp on Licha’s foot and tug on his shirt from behind was pretty clear and obvious, to be fair. Pulling someone down by the back of the shirt not only is normally a freekick in itself, but frequently leads to a yellow card if the advantage it seeks is great enough. The question is more about the use of VAR and the consistency behind what counts as ‘leading directly up to a goal’, although a counter that starts by fouling a CB and then proceding to score in the space he has vacated makes a decent case to claim it had a pretty direct connection between the foul and the goal.

I hate VAR regardless, but I think there was a legitimate case for using it this time according to the current guidelines.
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I mean, sure, if given in real time its a free kick. I’m not even debating whether or not it is a foul - I’m just 100% against VAR getting involved. As I said, do we even need refs on the pitch anymore?

Calling that play back after so long because of that foul is a total and complete travesty, and against whatever mandate VAR is supposed to have, and the soul of the game. Its as arbitrary as it gets, and there is always a «reason» for VAR to get involved (or not to get involved) if they feel the need to, and there is always a slight reason to defend the decision. But there are 4-5 fouls on any given corner kick as obvious as this one, yet they do tend to stay out of it.

Its as inconsequential and arbitrary as it gets, and I don’t believe for 1 second VAR would’ve overturned it if the roles were reversed (Argentina goal). Nusa had a better shout before Brazil’s first pen against Norway, for example. (Whataboutism, but it still proves my point somehow)

This is not tin-foil talk, anyone denying corruption/«politics» after the events of late are the ones wearing shiny hats. This might not be corruption obviously, it might just be bias or whatever, but VAR is getting way out of hand, and impossible to understand. And when the decisions end up like today, FIFA have only themselves to blame for any talks about corruption in their direction.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
I mean, sure, if given in real time its a free kick. I’m not even debating whether or not it is a foul - I’m just 100% against VAR getting involved. As I said, do we even need refs on the pitch anymore?

Calling that play back after so long because of that foul is a total and complete travesty, and against whatever mandate VAR is supposed to have, and the soul of the game. Its arbitrary, and there is always a «reason» for VAR to get involved og they feel the need to, and there is always a slight reason to defensive the decision. But there are 4-5 fouls on any given corner kick as obvious as this one, yet they do tend to stay out of it.

Its as inconsequential as it gets, and I don’t believe for 1 second VAR would’ve overturned it if the roles were reversed (Argentina goal). Nusa had a better shout before Brazil’s first pen against Norway, for example.

This is not tin-foil talk, anyone denying corruption/«politics» after the events of late are the ones wearing shiny hats. This might not be corruption obviously, it might just be bias or whatever, but VAR is getting way out of hand, and impossible to understand. And when the decisions end up like today, FIFA have only themselves to blame for any talks about corruption in their direction.
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I hate VAR too, and i think its ruined some great moments at this WC, but I mean, its not arbitrary at all is it? The foul directly leads to the goal. Thats pretty much the exact opposite of arbitrary. Its just annoying for the aesthetics and unfortunate for the team in question, but absolutely not arbitrary. It was also a foul and the Salah one wasnt. I can completely understand why Egypt are upset but people being emotional about it doesnt make either of those things not true
 
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Stop polluting every thread with the strange Messi Ronaldo nonsense New
Can we please stop polluting every thread with the strange Messi Ronaldo nonsense?
 
Flying high said:
We can ignore all the bad calls in favour of Argentina because one decision could have been more harsh on Salah? Okay.

Argentina were doing cynical fouls for the entire match. Even with the favouritism they were penalised for 13 fouls while Egypt only got 11 against them. Egypt had 4 yellow cards and Argentina 0.

I really don't understand how anyone can have watched this world cup, and the last one, and not come to the conclusion that Argentina have been given preferential treatment.
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The yellow cards were after Argentina had already scored the winner and they were arguing with the ref. One was after the match. You either weren’t really watching or are being extremely disingenuous now with how you’re presenting stats
 
Mockney said:
I hate VAR too, but I mean, its not arbitrary at all is it? The foul directly leads to the goal. Thats pretty much the exact opposite of arbitrary. Its just annoying for the aesthetics and unfortunate for the team, but absolutely not arbitrary. It was also a foul and the Salah one isnt. I can completely understand why Egypt are upset but turning this into some conspiracy nonsense is bunk. Youre just emotional
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I disagree. It’s arbitrary. As I said, VAR will always have a reason on almost any play to get involved. It’s up to the guy in the bus, who makes that decision based in a personal whim or individual discretion. As this thread proves, that’s happening _a lot_, and it’s a problem.

«An "arbitrary decision" in football generally refers to a subjective or discretionary ruling—such as a referee's off-the-cuff allowance of stoppage time, a heavily debated handball call, or unilateral governance rulings by football bodies—that is made without strict, transparent, or consistently applied objective criteria.»

Whether or not arbitrary is 100% the correct description, it is still very, very inconsistently applied seemingly without purely objective criteria. As I said, it’s gotten out of hand, and this is just more proof and fuel to the dumpster fire that VAR has become.

(I don’t even care about Argentina or Egypt. I had no horse in that race. But one horse was favored by…. someone. I had a horse in the Norway game, which is my best example of why I think this decision is just so horrendous)
 
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Charlie Foley said:
The yellow cards were after Argentina had already scored the winner and they were arguing with the ref. One was after the match. You either weren’t really watching or are being extremely disingenuous now with how you’re presenting stats
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What are you trying to argue here? I'm saying that amazingly Argentina didn't get a single yellow card in a game where Mcallister alone could have had 3 or 4.
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone finally give me a reason as to why FIFA would want to help Messi but feck over Ronaldo (who is infinitely more marketable)?
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FIFA and UEFA have always liked Messi. He has been often painted as this saint like figure who is not just the goat, but also a perfect footballer who does no wrong. He is just not like all other south american players, diving, fouling, trying to get that extra inch in every game.
Its a trope which has been around for like 2 decades or so now. And mostly stems from all the Messi vs Ronaldo discussion in the media, because Ronaldo is a pompous ass who likes to keep making statements and bigging himself up, while Messi does not give such statements.

Blatter said "he is like a son-in-law who every father and mother want to be at home". The love for Messi goes beyond his playing abilities or achievements.

Again, all this doesn't prove anything or any conspiracy that is being called out on this thread. Just giving a reply to your statement.
 
Mb194dc said:
Agree people have to be blind not to see it, see the Messi non red in the first game, the McAllister foul v Austria compared to disallowed Egypt goal today and on and on. Everything always goes for Argentina.

Total bias to keep Messi in the world cup because of TV ratings, engagement, $$$, that simple.
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Yes
 
Seems a lot of you referee by the letter of the law rather than by the context of how a game (and almost all of the games in this WC) have been refereed?

VAR isn't there to re-referee games and yet, they clearly do with the Martinez foul, because, in the CONTEXT of this WC these types of fouls simply haven't been given.

The one thing we all crave seems to be the one thing they never seem to be able to give us. Consistency.
 
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Sorry but you can literally see how MacAllister takes the ball away from the Austrian player with his left foot, and then kicks it with his right foot. The player then falls back (?) despite being pushed forward, no fault there.
 
I think it was unbalanced that VAR did such a detailed review of the build up to Egypts disallowed goal but didn’t review the potential foul on Salah before Argentinas. Even if they reviewed it and decided no foul goal good it would have seemed more fair that the process was been applied similarly.

Good article on BBC website suggesting they could not review the Salah one as a foul would have led to a penalty and there’s a different threshold for that. Which sounds plausible but ridiculous.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c5yzd23jll5o
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
No criticism for Salah giving the ball away cheaply leading to Argentina's winner? He must have thought he was back at Anfield expecting to get a penalty for such a desperate dive...
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Yeah that was weak. I can understand people saying Argentina have been favoured in this World Cup, but what was he doing there?
 
My wife, who has zero interest in football and has never spoken about it without me initiating a discussion just told me that she thinks the World Cup is rigged in Argentina's favour and Egypt got cheated out of the competition. And that "Threads can't be weaponised for propaganda like X" when I tried to explain how everything online is a dumpster fire the size of the Sun.

Lord help me.
 
Reds Under The Bed said:
No criticism for Salah giving the ball away cheaply leading to Argentina's winner? He must have thought he was back at Anfield expecting to get a penalty for such a desperate dive...
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I ain’t no fan of Salah, but Martinez also went down way too easily under pressure for the disallowed Egypt goal.

The consistency is shocking - Salah’s foot is caught - if it doesn’t lead to an Argentina goal, and was outside the box it’s given.
 
LittleP14 said:
I ain’t no fan of Salah, but Martinez also went down way too easily under pressure for the disallowed Egypt goal.

The consistency is shocking - Salah’s foot is caught - if it doesn’t lead to an Argentina goal, and was outside the box it’s given.
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Hmm i'm not sure that would be given a foul at all.
 
I watched the game without seeing any of the post match silliness until this morning. I think it's hard on Egypt, but certainly not rigged against them.

The coach has let the emotions get the better of him and he's blown a gasket and set the tone for his players and lit the fire on a conspiracy.

This has all been fanned online by American commentators who have found a useful smokescreen to hide from their own, very real shame.
 
The game is NOT RIGGED but any 50/50 decisions are 'benefit to Argentina' and anything against them is taken to a microscope. It's hard to rig a world cup game but it's extremely easy to sway 50/50 decisions.
The penalties,fouls, the cautions, the game momentum etc are some of the subjective decisions to sway the narrative
 
duffer said:
I watched the game and I genuinely can't see what Egypt are on about.

The foul on Licha was a foul. How far do you go back? To the start of that phase of play, which is obviously was.

I didn't see a foul on an Egypt player in the build up to the winner, happy to be corrected if someone has a clip.

I say that as someone who wanted Argentina out.
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When Salah has the ball just before he gets tackled there is a player arriving in the box from Egypt who gets pulled down by MacAllister.
 
LittleP14 said:
I ain’t no fan of Salah, but Martinez also went down way too easily under pressure for the disallowed Egypt goal.

The consistency is shocking - Salah’s foot is caught - if it doesn’t lead to an Argentina goal, and was outside the box it’s given.
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He went down 'Cause he got his toes stepped on, not because of pressure.
 
Lyng said:
When Salah has the ball just before he gets tackled there is a player arriving in the box from Egypt who gets pulled down by MacAllister.
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Surprised they didn't check that actually but possibly because it started outside the box.
 
Sylar said:
Well...



Depends if you think this is a foul or not and worth going back to check...
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Impossible to see from that video if he gets the ball or player first. If he goes through the player to get the ball it’s obviously a free kick
 
Lyng said:
When Salah has the ball just before he gets tackled there is a player arriving in the box from Egypt who gets pulled down by MacAllister.
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He doesnt get pulled down, its a tug on his arm and he collapses to the ground.
 
Flying high said:
What are you trying to argue here? I'm saying that amazingly Argentina didn't get a single yellow card in a game where Mcallister alone could have had 3 or 4.
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Paraguay didn't get a single card in their game against France.

People focusing on just this game are missing the bigger picture. This whole tournament has been referred horribly. Sometimes the same type of foul is given a booking in one half can be waved off in the next. It's all corrupt as feck and is it really surprising with the billions being gambled on this tournament.
 
We keep blaming refs but the real problem as ever is players and coaches cheating. Constantly faking contact/pain/injury and going down.

It's impossible to ref a sport like this.
 
Marwood said:
We keep blaming refs but the real problem as ever is players and coaches cheating. Constantly faking contact/pain/injury and going down.

It's impossible to ref a sport like this.
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Which they do because of weak reffing.

Almost any issue in football on the pitch can be brought back to weak reffing.
 
The whining and crying from Egyptian players and officials, as well as the general narrative after the game has been embarrassing and almost disgraceful. None of the decisions in question are that controversial to begin with.

The disallowed goal: It's clear a foul on Martinez. Stamp on foot and tug on shirt. You can debate whether you should go back that far for a VAR check, but it's not inconsistent with how it's been applied before.
The "foul" on Salah: First the Argentina defender wins the ball cleanly. Salah's momentum then carries him forward past the ball, while the defender is facing the ball. Then there is a small contact as Salah is already going down. Not a foul.
The pull in the box: A complete nothing situation. Even looks like the Egypt player throws himself to the ground.

This is supposed to be evidence of some grand conspiracy? Give me a break.
 
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