Refereeing/VAR at the World Cup

[Buckfast in the Park]

Can anyone finally give me a reason as to why FIFA would want to help Messi but feck over Ronaldo (who is infinitely more marketable)?

There isn’t a logical reason.

The whining and crying from Egyptian players and officials, as well as the general narrative after the game has been embarrassing and almost disgraceful. None of the decisions in question are that controversial to begin with.

The disallowed goal: It's clear a foul on Martinez. Stamp on foot and tug on shirt. You can debate whether you should go back that far for a VAR check, but it's not inconsistent with how it's been applied before.
The "foul" on Salah: First the Argentina defender wins the ball cleanly. Salah's momentum then carries him forward past the ball, while the defender is facing the ball. Then there is a small contact as Salah is already going down. Not a foul.
The pull in the box: A complete nothing situation. Even looks like the Egypt player throws himself to the ground.

This is supposed to be evidence of some grand conspiracy? Give me a break.

Literal children throwing their toys out of the pram.
Looking for someone to blame instead of their own incompetence and meltdown.
They bottled a 2-0 lead on a way to a WC quarter final, whilst conceding 3 goals in 13 minutes.
But sure thing, its the ref’s fault and not the coach’s terrible subs and inability to stabilize the game and adjust the shape of the team.

Kindergarten level.

 

[Josep Dowling]

The whining and crying from Egyptian players and officials, as well as the general narrative after the game has been embarrassing and almost disgraceful. None of the decisions in question are that controversial to begin with.

The disallowed goal: It's clear a foul on Martinez. Stamp on foot and tug on shirt. You can debate whether you should go back that far for a VAR check, but it's not inconsistent with how it's been applied before.
The "foul" on Salah: First the Argentina defender wins the ball cleanly. Salah's momentum then carries him forward past the ball, while the defender is facing the ball. Then there is a small contact as Salah is already going down. Not a foul.
The pull in the box: A complete nothing situation. Even looks like the Egypt player throws himself to the ground.

This is supposed to be evidence of some grand conspiracy? Give me a break.

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul.

That has never been the standard for checking for a foul in the build-up.

I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup.

Complete conjecture. Just something you feel.

Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

VAR and refereeing being inconsistent. Shocker. But it's not the job of referees in this game to think about every other call in every other game made by other referees. They are supposed to apply the laws of the game, not referee based on precedent.

 

[Zehner]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

How long has the VAR been around? 6 years? It's been handled like this since the beginning. That's such a nonsensical point of criticism. There's so much to criticize about this WC, no need to manufacture additional scandals. It's getting ridiculous.

 

[RepardReece]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

Its about 15-20 seconds between the foul and the goal by the way, not really that much football played. Seen this narrative a few times, and it's just not true

 

[Zehner]

I mean, sure, if given in real time its a free kick. I’m not even debating whether or not it is a foul - I’m just 100% against VAR getting involved. As I said, do we even need refs on the pitch anymore?

Calling that play back after so long because of that foul is a total and complete travesty, and against whatever mandate VAR is supposed to have, and the soul of the game. Its as arbitrary as it gets, and there is always a «reason» for VAR to get involved (or not to get involved) if they feel the need to, and there is always a slight reason to defend the decision. But there are 4-5 fouls on any given corner kick as obvious as this one, yet they do tend to stay out of it.

Its as inconsequential and arbitrary as it gets, and I don’t believe for 1 second VAR would’ve overturned it if the roles were reversed (Argentina goal). Nusa had a better shout before Brazil’s first pen against Norway, for example. (Whataboutism, but it still proves my point somehow)

This is not tin-foil talk, anyone denying corruption/«politics» after the events of late are the ones wearing shiny hats. This might not be corruption obviously, it might just be bias or whatever, but VAR is getting way out of hand, and impossible to understand. And when the decisions end up like today, FIFA have only themselves to blame for any talks about corruption in their direction.

I'd even double down on it and make the VAR the referee who has the last word. The ref on the pitch is only there to make immediate calls and accelerate the decision making but if the VAR thinks he made a mistake, he doesn't have to alert him but can just overrule the decision.

And in my opinion, that's a clear foul on Martinez and would definitely lead to a penalty if it happened in the box. He's being stepped on the foot and that contact causes him to fall and lose possession. In such cases, there's no real leeway. Sucks for Egypt because it was a beautiful counter attack but it is what it is.

 

[Marcus]

It was a clear foul on Martinez. Sorry, no goal in this instance. Much as Egypt wants to cry favouritism. I really would not have minded Martinez coming back early to focus on his actual job though. I am not sure about the consistency with other decisions.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

My emotions have calmed, but I still end up on the same ballpark mentally. While I agree the game is not rigged pre ce, I still believe the bias towards Argentina sway (very important) decisions in their favor.
The use of VAR to call that goal back is still a travesty and shouldn't have happened. It can of course be defended to take a look at it, and when they do, it's a foul - it's the decision to look at it in the first place I (and a lot of people) have a big, big problem with.
It's not in line with what the refs and VAR have been doing so far this tournament, and it's curious how it ended up being called back when Argentina is playing.
Again, (hopefully) not rigged and not corrupt, but 100% a bias towards Argentina.

I think like 90% of the pundits and media agree as well from what I've read, both Norwegian and International media - that it was at best an example of extremely inconsistent use of VAR given the context of how it's been used this WC (and before WC in the big leagues).
They all agree it was a free kick (no denying that), it's the fact that VAR got themselves involved in the first place that is the big criticism.

And FIFA can only blame themselves for any talks of corruption, rigged games, or massive bias.
To much smoke and evidence elsewhere of exactly that happening, obviously contributing to the zeitgeist after the game.

 

[Mshafeek]

My emotions have calmed, but I still end up on the same ballpark mentally. While I agree the game is not rigged pre ce, I still believe the bias towards Argentina sway (very important) decisions in their favor.
The use of VAR to call that goal back is still a travesty and shouldn't have happened. It can of course be defended to take a look at it, and when they do, it's a foul - it's the decision to look at it in the first place I (and a lot of people) have a big, big problem with.
It's not in line with what the refs and VAR have been doing so far this tournament, and it's curious how it ended up being called back when Argentina is playing.
Again, (hopefully) not rigged and not corrupt, but 100% a bias towards Argentina.

I think like 90% of the pundits and media agree as well from what I've read, both Norwegian and International media - that it was at best an example of extremely inconsistent use of VAR given the context of how it's been used this WC (and before WC in the big leagues).
They all agree it was a free kick (no denying that), it's the fact that VAR got themselves involved in the first place that is the big criticism.

And FIFA can only blame themselves for any talks of corruption, rigged games, or massive bias.
To much smoke and evidence elsewhere of exactly that happening, obviously contributing to the zeitgeist after the game.

What's this sudden revisionist narrative from even the media? VAR has, for a log time at least, been used to disallow goals for fouls in the build up. Just why are people claiming otherwise? The movement that started the goal was from a foul, and MUST be disallowed, period.

 

[Donaldo]

The whining and crying from Egyptian players and officials, as well as the general narrative after the game has been embarrassing and almost disgraceful. None of the decisions in question are that controversial to begin with.

The disallowed goal: It's clear a foul on Martinez. Stamp on foot and tug on shirt. You can debate whether you should go back that far for a VAR check, but it's not inconsistent with how it's been applied before.
The "foul" on Salah: First the Argentina defender wins the ball cleanly. Salah's momentum then carries him forward past the ball, while the defender is facing the ball. Then there is a small contact as Salah is already going down. Not a foul.
The pull in the box: A complete nothing situation. Even looks like the Egypt player throws himself to the ground.

This is supposed to be evidence of some grand conspiracy? Give me a break.

Trump put the genie out with his interference. Now everyone (with limited knowledge) can assume there is corruption all the way through. And I don't blame them.

 

[Bondi77]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

I found it strange indeed.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I'd even double down on it and make the VAR the referee who has the last word. The ref on the pitch is only there to make immediate calls and accelerate the decision making but if the VAR thinks he made a mistake, he doesn't have to alert him but can just overrule the decision.

I mean, we live on totally different planets on this one.
You actually want more VAR and even less power/mandate to the on field ref - and actually overturning decisions like this without even getting him/her involved? Just a notice on the big screen that "decision overruled" without further ado?

I can't think of anything I'd hate more in football. Even less tranparency, and a great way to kill any sort of celebration after goals (or any decision, really).
Especially for match going fans, this will make the experience infinitely worse. All in the name of very questionable "justice".

There are humans making the decisions in the VAR bus as well - and the decisions are rarely black/white.
The same errors made by the ref on the pitch can be made by the people in the bus (and they often get it just as wrong - or even more wrong), and given the tech (slow mo etc) they have available, they can find any reason at almost any time in any game to overrule the on field ref.

VAR was supposed to kill all the negative focus on refs and decisions - what it has done is the opposite. It's made it worse. Without making it more fair/just.

 

[Kaos]

We keep blaming refs but the real problem as ever is players and coaches cheating. Constantly faking contact/pain/injury and going down.

It's impossible to ref a sport like this.

It isn't, they just need to be brave enough to enact retrospective punishments as well as insist 'injured' players receive treatment off the pitch while the game continues.

Consistently enforce those and you can guarantee that teams and players will be deterred from such antics.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

In Norway vs Brazil as well. Very, very similar situation leading up to Brazil's penalty.
This is why people are fuming and putting on their tin foil hats. The inconsistency is glaringly obvious, and people are rightfully shocked.

Whether or not it is a free kick is not the point people are crying about at all.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Trump put the genie out with his interference. Now everyone (with limited knowledge) can assume there is corruption all the way through. And I don't blame them.

I see your point, but it's just not the same at all. One is on the administration side, while the other is live refereeing of a game.

And in any case, even if Egypt had a really bad decision go against them, it wouldn't at all warrant this kind of reaction we've seen from their players and staff. Drawing a straight line between a bad refereeing decision/performance (which happens all the time across football at all levels) to FIFA wanting a specific team to go through is just not right. I hate FIFA as much as anyone else, but these Egypt players are basically calling a team of 7(?) referees corrupt. I wonder if that even crosses their minds.

 

[Mike Smalling]

In Norway vs Brazil as well. Very, very similar situation leading up to Brazil's penalty.
This is why people are fuming and putting on their tin foil hats. The inconsistency is glaringly obvious, and people are rightfully shocked.

Whether or not it is a free kick is not the point people are crying about at all.

You would have had to not watch any football games for the past five years or so to be shocked at inconsistent refereeing and VAR application.

Inconsistent refereeing is not at all the same as corruption.

 

[Josep Dowling]

That has never been the standard for checking for a foul in the build-up.

Complete conjecture. Just something you feel.

VAR and refereeing being inconsistent. Shocker. But it's not the job of referees in this game to think about every other call in every other game made by other referees. They are supposed to apply the laws of the game, not referee based on precedent.

Agree with your points. I have frustration around how VAR is managed. They should remove the ability to chalk off a goal if there is a deemed foul leading up to it. If the ref has played on that’s how it should be. Or at least be specific on how far back they can go on a play in the rule books.

It also allows for match fixing or perceived match fixing but it’s so inconsistent.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I see your point, but it's just not the same at all. One is on the administration side, while the other is live refereeing of a game.

And in any case, even if Egypt had a really bad decision go against them, it wouldn't at all warrant this kind of reaction we've seen from their players and staff. Drawing a straight line between a bad refereeing decision/performance (which happens all the time across football at all levels) to FIFA wanting a specific team to go through is just not right. I hate FIFA as much as anyone else, but these Egypt players are basically calling a team of 7(?) referees corrupt. I wonder if that even crosses their minds.

Is it really that strange for Egypt to at least talk out loud about a potential bias towards Argentina?
Nvm corruption, these refs grew up watching Messi themselves. Messi was a superstar before Eskås (4th official) even refereed his first game.
And when decisions like these are made, that obviously becomes a narrative for the side on the wrong end of the decision.

I don't blame them at all for any talks about the decision afterwards.
The talks about corruption are obviously baseless - but for them to feel they been given the short end of the stick becuase of who they are and who they are playing against seems only logical.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Agree with your points. I have frustration around how VAR is managed. They should remove the ability to chalk off a goal if there is a deemed foul leading up to it. If the ref has played on that’s how it should be. Or at least be specific on how far back they can go on a play in the rule books.

It also allows for match fixing or perceived match fixing but it’s so inconsistent.

It would be good, if they could be more specific on this, I agree.

In the specific instance, it's one of the pitch to the other, so it seems far removed. On the other hand they won the ball for the counter with the foul and then scored 15 seconds later after two passes (I think). You could reasonably argue both ways. There is a direct link between foul and goal, but Argentina also has plenty of chances to defend it. I don't know how you would make a clear rule.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You would have had to not watch any football games for the past five years or so to be shocked at inconsistent refereeing and VAR application.

Inconsistent refereeing is not at all the same as corruption.

I agree it's not corruption. As stated in the post just before the one you quoted.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Is it really that strange for Egypt to at least talk out loud about a potential bias towards Argentina?
Nvm corruption, these refs grew up watching Messi themselves. Messi was a superstar before Eskås (4th official) even refereed his first game.
And when decisions like these are made, that obviously becomes a narrative for the side on the wrong end of the decision.

I don't blame them at all for any talks about the decision afterwards.
The talks about corruption are obviously baseless - but for them to feel they been given the short end of the stick becuase of who they are and who they are playing against seems only logical.

Mostafa Ziko: "It is clear that this tournament has been fixed."
Hossam Hassan: “Perhaps they wanted to keep the world champions in the competition. Perhaps they wanted Messi to stay in the running.”

I assumed the "they" here is FIFA. I don't think those comments are normal reactions to a perceived poor refereeing performance.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but that's what happens at the semifinal stage, right? No refs from countries still in it

I thought they try to avoid it, but its not a specific rule, but i might be wrong

 

[Skåre Willoch]

What's this sudden revisionist narrative from even the media? VAR has, for a log time at least, been used to disallow goals for fouls in the build up. Just why are people claiming otherwise? The movement that started the goal was from a foul, and MUST be disallowed, period.

Again, I wholeheartedly disagree. It's the massive inconsistency regarding the "MUST be disallowed"-thing that is making people furious. It might be totally random that it happened in this game (for seemingly the first time this WC?)
It's not revisionist narrative to look back at games happening the same bloody week for similar examples, is it?

Agree with your points. I have frustration around how VAR is managed. They should remove the ability to chalk off a goal if there is a deemed foul leading up to it. If the ref has played on that’s how it should be. Or at least be specific on how far back they can go on a play in the rule books.

It also allows for match fixing or perceived match fixing but it’s so inconsistent.

Agreed. After X moves it should be impossible for VAR to get involved (or similar, I don't really have the answer, it will be wrong one way or another anyway - which is my point - VAR is yet to make this more fair in any way, shape or form)
Afer X moves or X time, "It is what it is"

And if anything, this specific example of use/mandate of VAR opens the door even more for (perceived) match fixing, and imo actually provides more tools to actually rig games.
(Again, not saying this is rigged or corrupt in this specific instance, the stage is to big for that, but these tools are making that a lot easier rather than harder imo)

 

[Anustart89]

It would be good, if they could be more specific on this, I agree.

In the specific instance, it's one of the pitch to the other, so it seems far removed. On the other hand they won the ball for the counter with the foul and then scored 15 seconds later after two passes (I think). You could reasonably argue both ways. There is a direct link between foul and goal, but Argentina also has plenty of chances to defend it. I don't know how you would make a clear rule.

Argentina had their entire team forward chasing an equaliser, including the centre half who was the player that was fouled by Egypt’s corner flag. Which is why the counter that led to the goal has an immediate relation to the foul (which was clear). And since people love speaking about the officials’ nationalities, why is nobody asking why the French referee didn’t call the foul on Licha in real time?

Conspiracy claims about the Argentina game are ridiculous.

I don’t see anyone in this thread up in arms that Colombia didn’t get a penalty for a player having his arm slightly and fleetingly dragged back by a Swiss player, yet the tug on the Egyptian that collapsed when MacAllister touched his arm and he went down like a sack of shit (while the ball wasn’t even being played into that area (because Salah was busy fannying about and going down when he had the ball taken off him) which is something VAR usually takes into account) is supposedly a stonewall penalty and VAR should’ve intervened to give a penalty for an absolutely nothing off-the-ball incident.

The guy who brought up the yellow card count when all the cards were shown for dissent after the winner was a high point in the post game discussions as well

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The most obvious VAR assisted terrible decision in this tournament remains the penalty that Mbappe was denied in the group stages. And he’s one of the poster boys for the tournament.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Mostafa Ziko: "It is clear that this tournament has been fixed."
Hossam Hassan: “Perhaps they wanted to keep the world champions in the competition. Perhaps they wanted Messi to stay in the running.”

I assumed the "they" here is FIFA. I don't think those comments are normal reactions to a perceived poor refereeing performance.

Sure, They feel they've been wronged, and given the recent circumstances surrounding this cup they can hardly be blamed for being furious.
I believe they actualy feel that way - that they've been disadvantaged with intention. They are wrong, but I actually think it is a "normal" reaction.
They should be penalized somehow as they should "do better" in official interviews, but they are obviously very emotional.

 

[Mockney]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul.

See, I am sympathetic to it, and I agree it's overly officious reffing (and annoying to have such a great goal disallowed) but I also don't understand this POV at all, and I've seen it said a lot...The foul directly leads to the goal, it's how Egypt win the ball and start the move. How are those two things not connected? You could also argue that fouling a defender up the pitch prevents him from getting back as quickly to defend it. The two things are very much part of the same 'game moment'

As for 'I don't see Argentina getting it pulled back' maybe so...but on the other side I don't see nearly as much emotion driven whining about it if it isn't a plucky underdog having a lovely goal chalked off against the World Champions. The general sense of unfairness is being put before the actual merits of the decision IMO. In cold isolation both the VAR decisions on both goals are right.

Personally I'd rather the goal stood and we just argued about the foul later, like we used to before VAR. But with VAR, thems good decisions.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

I am finding it amusing that the Arab world has now realised that FIFA might have a corruption problem

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see your point, but it's just not the same at all. One is on the administration side, while the other is live refereeing of a game.

And in any case, even if Egypt had a really bad decision go against them, it wouldn't at all warrant this kind of reaction we've seen from their players and staff. Drawing a straight line between a bad refereeing decision/performance (which happens all the time across football at all levels) to FIFA wanting a specific team to go through is just not right. I hate FIFA as much as anyone else, but these Egypt players are basically calling a team of 7(?) referees corrupt. I wonder if that even crosses their minds.

It’s the nature of VAR to move the needle from anger at poor decisions to accusations of corruption. This isn’t an Egypt specific problem. We’ve been listening to similar accusations throughout football, ever since VAR was introduced. Real time refereeing errors are infinitely easier to accept than a decision which seems harsh/unfair after VAR review.

Obviously doesn’t help when Trump-Infantino collude on such an obvious incident of corruption this same week.

 

[Gupz]

Strictly speaking, the VAR was on point yesterday. The disallowed goal was a correct decision. The goal came from a counterattack that originated from a clear foul on Martinez. So it was part of the built up to the goal. Therefore the VAR was right to intervene.

The real issue is that these decisions are too inconsistent because one VAR is not the same as the other. But that does not make this particular decision wrong or rigged. As for Egypt's penalty calls before Argentina's winning goal... those were not clear (inside the box) fouls and definitely not a penalty. Salah was already going down, with the ball behind him, so it was also correct for VAR not to intervene.

I understand that, given the disallowed goal, Egypt is putting every decision under a magnifying glass and feels hard robbed. However, if you look at it objectively, the decisions made were quite reasonable.

 

[Marwood]

It isn't, they just need to be brave enough to enact retrospective punishments as well as insist 'injured' players receive treatment off the pitch while the game continues.

Consistently enforce those and you can guarantee that teams and players will be deterred from such antics.

There are all sorts of issues with that. The way players go down now and the screaming you'd think they'd broken a leg. You can't as a referee tell them to get off the pitch because what if the injury is that serious? Same reason you can't book a player for faking injury because what if they're not faking. It'd be a shit storm.

Whatever we do to try and stop cheating they find other ways.

In a different sport with a different culture Salah doesn't go down(because that was never enough contact to do so) and Egypt don't lose the ball/don't concede.

Egypt are blaming the ref. With a proper sporting culture they should be blaming their own player(Salah).

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yeah I have no issue with the reviewing of the foul - the location is irrelevant - it directly leads to Morocco obtaining the ball and going to score.

The issue is that, if refs have been told to let the game flow... and if thats the sort of contact have constantly being let go at this World Cup (which it has been) then it feels a bit ridiculous to then award a foul for it by VAR.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It’s the nature of VAR to move the needle from anger at poor decisions to accusations of corruption. This isn’t an Egypt specific problem. We’ve been listening to similar accusations throughout football, ever since VAR was introduced. Real time refereeing errors are infinitely easier to accept than a decision which seems harsh/unfair after VAR review.

Obviously doesn’t help when Trump-Infantino collude on such an obvious incident of corruption this same week.

True, but I'm not convinced we wouldn't have heard the same comments in a hypothetical world without VAR, where a few decision had gone against Egypt. The accusation that the higher-ups want Argentina and Messi to go through can just as easily be made without VAR.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

It’s the nature of VAR to move the needle from anger at poor decisions to accusations of corruption. This isn’t an Egypt specific problem. We’ve been listening to similar accusations throughout football, ever since VAR was introduced. Real time refereeing errors are infinitely easier to accept than a decision which seems harsh/unfair after VAR review.

Obviously doesn’t help when Trump-Infantino collude on such an obvious incident of corruption this same week.

Exactly. VAR and decisions like yesterday amplifies corruption and collusion related narratives a lot - especially given recent circumstances.

 

[Owen Hargo]

It’s Egypt’s disallowed goal which is the major issue. Why has VAR gone back to that point? So much football has been played between the foul and goal. It’s not a yellow or red card so I see no reason why it’s being pulled back for the foul. I honestly don’t see another team getting that decision in the World Cup. Add to the fact there was a very similar situation between Argentina v Austria when Argentina scored, of course the foul wasn’t reviewed.

Portugal vs Uzbekistan. Var interfered with a worldie from Uzbekistan and disallowed a goal for a four beforehand.

 

[Donaldo]

I see your point, but it's just not the same at all. One is on the administration side, while the other is live refereeing of a game.

And in any case, even if Egypt had a really bad decision go against them, it wouldn't at all warrant this kind of reaction we've seen from their players and staff. Drawing a straight line between a bad refereeing decision/performance (which happens all the time across football at all levels) to FIFA wanting a specific team to go through is just not right. I hate FIFA as much as anyone else, but these Egypt players are basically calling a team of 7(?) referees corrupt. I wonder if that even crosses their minds.

You did see what Trump said about the referee right? Absolutely despicable and downright horrifying considering he has the might of the world's largest surveillance machinery under his power.

Conspiracy minded or biased actors are always going to make the connection.

 

[Owen Hargo]

Exactly. VAR and decisions like yesterday amplifies corruption and collusion related narratives a lot - especially given recent circumstances.

What narrative is being proven from last night?

 

[Zehner]

I mean, we live on totally different planets on this one.
You actually want more VAR and even less power/mandate to the on field ref - and actually overturning decisions like this without even getting him/her involved? Just a notice on the big screen that "decision overruled" without further ado?

I can't think of anything I'd hate more in football. Even less tranparency, and a great way to kill any sort of celebration after goals (or any decision, really).
Especially for match going fans, this will make the experience infinitely worse. All in the name of very questionable "justice".

There are humans making the decisions in the VAR bus as well - and the decisions are rarely black/white.
The same errors made by the ref on the pitch can be made by the people in the bus (and they often get it just as wrong - or even more wrong), and given the tech (slow mo etc) they have available, they can find any reason at almost any time in any game to overrule the on field ref.

VAR was supposed to kill all the negative focus on refs and decisions - what it has done is the opposite. It's made it worse. Without making it more fair/just.

My primary issue with VAR is the inconsistency with which it intervenes and that is down to the question whether or not something was a clear mistake or not. You'd eliminate that by giving the VAR - who is in a much better place to judge what has happened - the authority. The on pitch referee would still handle 95% of decisions but when he gets something wrong, it's taken care of within seconds instead of minutes.

As for the bolded part, all reports suggest that the introduction of the VAR had a significantly positive effect on the amount of referee mistakes. I don't think you can take that back. People have simply forgotten the state of refereeing pre-VAR. You can see this in early cup matches that are being played without video assistence. If you get rid of VAR again, the immediate reaction would likely be positive but it would change very quickly once people get to experience the unfairness that used to be the standard.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Portugal vs Uzbekistan. Var interfered with a worldie from Uzbekistan and disallowed a goal for a four beforehand.

That foul happened 1,5 seconds and 1 touch before the goal was scored 3 meters away from where the foul took place. Not even remotely similar.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

What narrative is being proven from last night?

I'm not sure what you are asking? I haven't said any narrative has been proven, have I?
I have said i understand the cries about corruption given the glarlingly obvious corruption taking place just days before this game (and many other factors/instances involving teams/fans/refs travelling from African/Arab/Asain countries)
Nothing is proven at all - but it is very, very understandable why the egyptian cast have very strong emotions and are buying into a narrative that they've been purposely disadvantaged.