Referees influencing games by not giving yellows

VeevaVee

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How often does this happen?

Ref refuses to give a blatant yellow early on, to keep control of the game, or whatever is supposed to be the reasoning. In games like today this can go on for almost the entire first half.

I remember it happening against PSG - they should have had a yellow for a professional foul 5 mins in. Of course he gets a yellow later which should be a red.
Today Fabinho gets away with a professional foul to stop an attack, an elbow no less, plus multiple other instances that should be cards. I think that foul was about half an hour in too.


Surely this shouldn't be happening? If the players keep fouling and the ref has to give reds, that's on them. Enforce the fecking rules.
 

11101

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Commentators said that's the biggest game Tierney has ever been given. Clearly wanted to play on the side of caution with the bigger and non-VAR assisted decisions.
 

ajay1002

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Happens far too often and really annoys me. The time a foul happens should not affect the punishment given by the ref but it so clearly does. I thought a couple of Liverpool players today were very fortunate to not receive two yellows during the game.
 

MikeKing

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Rashford had one tackle and received a yellow card for breaking down their attack, but that's literally what Liverpool players did all game every time we got the ball. I don't get how you're being awarded by not receiving yellows if you foul more, and if you foul less you'll get a yellow ..why?
 

PieCrust

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Intentional fouls to stop counter attacking play is a blight on the game. I wish they'd just make it a straight red and be done with it.
 

Dan_F

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That Thiago one on McTominay was a joke, he was lucky not to be a yellow already. He then made another foul after and still didn’t get a yellow.
 

Cpt Negative

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Intentional fouls to stop counter attacking play is a blight on the game. I wish they'd just make it a straight red and be done with it.
I wouldn’t want a red for it, but there needs to be zero tolerance when it comes to yellows being given.

There were 3 or 4 today that could have been given and of course, it was the United player booked for bringing him down with his first tackle.

Fabinho and Thiago on bookings makes it a different game for me
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Very good point and one I noticed too. I don’t get how Thiago has avoided a booking.
 

Pexbo

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Its self preservation. It’s easier to not give a first yellow and it be forgotten than it is to refuse to give a second yellow.
 

Ace of Spades

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Rashford had one tackle and received a yellow card for breaking down their attack, but that's literally what Liverpool players did all game every time we got the ball. I don't get how you're being awarded by not receiving yellows if you foul more, and if you foul less you'll get a yellow ..why?
Just more pathetic reffing from the officials. No wonder counter attacking football is seen as something negative compared to possession football, when you can just keep fouling players to stop the counter attack, of course teams won't get anything.

Let us see teams like Pool or City get punished for tactical fouls and see if they keep as much possession and push as high as they do then.
 

El Zoido

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It needs to be stopped, City and Liverpool in particular have become excellent at deliberately fouling to break up attacks to make it look in innocuous. It’s a blight on the game.
 

Jeppers7

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Refs are power hungry individuals, you can tell they love not giving something, having that power to decide not to do it and get the reaction. You can also always tell when they don’t give something for a big name player. It’s about them.
 

Anustart89

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Because there's no backlash from the media or governing bodies.

The assessment of Tierney's performance today will be "handled a big game well, got the big calls right" (despite there being no decisions to make), while constantly stopping the game instead of playing advantages and removing good counter-attacks for both sides and allowing one team to ruin the other team's game plan by constantly fouling on the break and not be allowed to play even if an attack is developing. If Thiago and Fabinho had been on yellows early on in the game they would've had to be careful in breaking up counter-attacks, but up until you've actually been booked it's basically carte blanche to keep doing it.
 

Haddock

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I don't know where to moan about this so this thread will do. I think the referees really need to start sending players off for backing into airborne players in 50-50 challenges. Harry Kane takes the piss with it (that dirty little bastard) and Shaquiri did it today. It is cowardly, lazy and snide and will end with somone suffering a terrible injury one of these days.
 

MikeKing

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Just more pathetic reffing from the officials. No wonder counter attacking football is seen as something negative compared to possession football, when you can just keep fouling players to stop the counter attack, of course teams won't get anything.

Let us see teams like Pool or City get punished for tactical fouls and see if they keep as much possession and push as high as they do then.
Exactly. We've played aggressively like that against some teams but we rarely just foul them to stop counters, however it's something Matic does from time to time but he also receives yellow cards for it and then stops completely. I feel there is a battle for possession and if you win it, you get the good will of the ref as far as fouling. If you just had the ball for 5 minutes and lose it once then you foul someone it's like the refs feel like the other team is 'lucky to get the ball' and so wont give out a yellow because hey, I gave you the ball what more do you want. Once Rashford ran back in an honest effort to get the ball and then miss, there is a narrative in the refs mind that he must have did it on purpose as a measure to stop the other team because they got the ball. It's really weird.

A foul is a foul and where and when you stop a counter attack shouldn't matter, if it's a yellow and you've done the same thing twice then it's a red. Once you do it all game it becomes really unfair advantage because you are playing on a narrative, like gambling you get any edge you can by shouting at the ref like Klopp does. Ref miss the bigger picture and don't think he does anything wrong. I was certain Fabinho was on a yellow, didn't he get booked for a clear takedown in the first half? Didn't he stop a counter attack and just smashed into Bruno without trying to go for the ball? Must not have been booked for that though.
 

MikeKing

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My theory is that the refs is so out of shape and lazy that they admire when a team plays slow possession and has a lot of the ball and hate quick counter attacking because they have to run a lot. It would explain why they give out yellows to the teams that want to play quickly and slow down any attack at every opportunity to keep one team on the ball so they wont have to run.
 

Sylar

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If sky or match of the day do a big story / analysis on certain players doing it, it will influence the ref or make them aware of it

Until then refs will take no notice of a player doing it so often and subtly
Some refs do go on reputation
Also some breaking up play is more obvious than others despite being the same foul, United are a bit naive when they do it
 

SER19

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All the time. Huge problem. Gabriel and holding both should have had reds at old Trafford because they didn't get yellows because it was 'early on'
 

Corey

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Agreed.

There are so many systematic errors made by referees. Being too lenient early in the game is one example. Another one is when refs play advantage for a clear yellow card offence (typically to let a counter attack pan out) and then completely forget to book the player if the play continues for more than five seconds or so.

I think fouling in general is a big problem in football. The amount of fouls taking place is huge, most of which are inadequately punished.

Personally, I'd like to see new rule: any deliberate foul is a yellow card. Doesn't matter whether it's stopping a counter-attack/shirt-pulling or whatever, if it's deliberate it should be a yellow as it's an attempt to cheat.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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Just more pathetic reffing from the officials. No wonder counter attacking football is seen as something negative compared to possession football, when you can just keep fouling players to stop the counter attack, of course teams won't get anything.

Let us see teams like Pool or City get punished for tactical fouls and see if they keep as much possession and push as high as they do then.
No chance, they’d be shredded constantly on the counter if they weren’t allowed to tactically foul. Both Pep and Klopp realize this is a loophole in today’s game and thus tell their defenders to just fly into every challenge aggressively because as long as the foul is in the oppositions half then the ref won’t punish them
 

renandstimpyfan83

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Clattenburg has admitted in the past that he’s deliberately refereed a game to fit a narrative. I think Howard Webb also admitted he did send of Nigel de Jong because of the fact it was early in a World Cup final.

Part of the problem is idiot commentators who complain about red cards “ruining the game”. Refs are well aware of this and therefore avoid giving out too many cards, especially early in the game.
 

InterFan1998

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That and also not booking players for kicking the ball away after a whistle (they only do this in the last 10 minutes of a game). Today, ref whistled for offside and then Rashford kept on holding onto the ball for at least 10 seconds and blasted it into the net.
 

ManUArfa

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How often does this happen?

Ref refuses to give a blatant yellow early on, to keep control of the game, or whatever is supposed to be the reasoning. In games like today this can go on for almost the entire first half.

I remember it happening against PSG - they should have had a yellow for a professional foul 5 mins in. Of course he gets a yellow later which should be a red.
Today Fabinho gets away with a professional foul to stop an attack, an elbow no less, plus multiple other instances that should be cards. I think that foul was about half an hour in too.


Surely this shouldn't be happening? If the players keep fouling and the ref has to give reds, that's on them. Enforce the fecking rules.
It gives teams that play with "press and foul the breakaway" tactics a clear advantage and is anti-football IMO
 

Achilles McCool

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If tactical fouls don’t warrant yellow cards, then high pressing teams like City and Liverpool will be able to continue pressing and dominating possession without fear!
A poster above mentioned Thiago and Fernandinho and in my opinion, that position, and those two players in particular, is the key to high press! Deny them the ability to foul indiscriminately and the high press disappears (for the better of football in general) and games will open up and return to more entertaining, back and forth play. Something definitely needs to happen and refs need to start punishing these “segments” of the game, that in my opinion, is like preventing a goal scoring chance (albeit from nearer the center line than penalty box)
 

VeevaVee

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Ironic or not, it's the truth. Our players doing it and getting away with it doesn't make this thread any less legit
I’m guessing he means it’s hypocritical because our players do professional fouls? They usually get carded though. To be clear @JSArsenal, this is a thread about lack of cards where they’re warranted, especially early in games, not professional fouling specifically.
 

PieCrust

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I wouldn’t want a red for it, but there needs to be zero tolerance when it comes to yellows being given.

There were 3 or 4 today that could have been given and of course, it was the United player booked for bringing him down with his first tackle.

Fabinho and Thiago on bookings makes it a different game for me
Awarding a free kick and the offending player a yellow is not enough compensation for the attacking team. Obviously this is the case, as the defending team gladly will accept this situation time and time again. And I can hardly remember anyone ever getting a second yellow and sent off for this. I'm sure it's happened, but it is rare. Someone else in the side just make the foul instead next time and since overall referee's are loathe to give a second yellow for anything unless they are forced by the foul being so extreme it's borderline or is a red, there is hardly any risk for the player to pick up a second yellow.

This approach allows teams to play high pressing, risky football without fear of being hit on the counter if they lose possession. It's a stifling tactic and one for me I'm just tired of seeing. The foul is not in the spirit of the game and ruins the flow. It's the most cynical play in football. You shouldn't be able to completely gut a promising counter attack by the opposition just because your team is out of position from playing an aggressive attacking style or even if that isn't the tactic, but just by being caught out of position. I don't see any other way to stamp it out of the game than to make the penalty for it extreme, which a red card would be I'll freely admit. But it would also work.

I suppose you could consider the idea of some kind of penalty box, where the offending player gets a yellow and sits out for 15 mins while his team plays a man down, but I'm not sure that is even enough to curb the behavior. The price is still worth paying if it stops a clear goal scoring chance. Maybe it could also be a modified red, where you are out the rest of the current match, your team plays a man down, but you'd still be eligible for the next match, unless it happens in the final 15 mins of the match or something like that.
 

Longshanks

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Thiago in particular got away with a ridiculous amount of fouls today, but also fabiniho should of been booked in the first half and when he does get booked for another cynical foul on cavani you realise if cavani wasnt tripped than cavani and bruno would of been 2 on 1 20 yards from goal DOAGSO anyone? Would fabiniho of made the tackle if he was already on a yellow like he should of been?

Anything that can be classed as a tactical foul should be a yellow straight away it doesn't matter when or where on the pitch. If the player is beaten and he fouls to stop player in possession getting away then it should be a yellow no matter what.
 

Zen86

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It’s a big problem in my opinion, especially when some teams systematically scythe the opposition down the second they have the chance to break. It’s very anti-football and is providing an unfair advantage to some.
 

RUCK4444

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Thiago in particular got away with a ridiculous amount of fouls today, but also fabiniho should of been booked in the first half and when he does get booked for another cynical foul on cavani you realise if cavani wasnt tripped than cavani and bruno would of been 2 on 1 20 yards from goal DOAGSO anyone? Would fabiniho of made the tackle if he was already on a yellow like he should of been?

Anything that can be classed as a tactical foul should be a yellow straight away it doesn't matter when or where on the pitch. If the player is beaten and he fouls to stop player in possession getting away then it should be a yellow no matter what.
Totally agree, this was the first thing I thought of at the time when Fabinho fouled Cavani.

The officials need to get a hold of this tactical fouling. Coaches are exploiting a weakness in the officiating and it literally becomes part of their approach to a game.

Almost every single attack we had yesterday was broken up with a tactical foul, especially the first half.

Officials should make it known they are clamping down on it and then start issuing early yellow cards in games for clear tactical fouls.
 

Cloud7

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Intentional fouls to stop counter attacking play is a blight on the game. I wish they'd just make it a straight red and be done with it.
I’ve been banging this drum for a long time now. “Tactical fouls” and “taking one for the team” are one of the most appalling facets of the game. It’s much worse than diving and a ton of other things that players get criticized for. There’s never even an attempt to get the ball, it’s just shoving the player down to completely break down their attack. I can hardly thing of anything less in the spirit of the game, and firmly think it should be a red card offense.