Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

bosnian_red

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It wouldn't, under the current rules, have been a handball in the Premier League either.

In terms of Portugals third, we have no idea because they didn't show the lines
The big plus was that they did their offside check very quickly and didn't need to spend 5 minutes redrawing lines just in case there was a marginal offside with an irrelevant body part.
 

UncleBob

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The Euros (and the PL next season) are treating offsides in a way akin to the CL last year or the Dutch league by effectively introducing a margin of error on narrow offside calls.

The Dutch and the CL do it in slightly different ways and I think the Euros are following the CL approach but in effect it has the same outcome.

It means that the narrowest of offsides that fall within that effective MOE don't get called. It also means the delay from the full calibration process on those calls is skipped, as (in the CL's method) it can stop once the first line is drawn if it's obviously marginal.

Incidentally I've just read that the Euros have an extra VAR specifically for offsides, which would also speed decisions up in cases where there are multiple things to assess. So in general you're getting fewer and quicker interventions.
It speeds up the process, and makes it faster, but the amount of interventions just depends on amount of situations.

They will introduce thicker lines in the PL to increase the margins.
 

Mb194dc

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Prem has the worst VAR implementation, other leagues and CL still have problems too though. I think with a higher volume of games in league football we notice the flaws more.
 

sullydnl

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You were saying?

The most marginal calls are eliminated under this system. That doesn't mean there will be no tight calls though. There still has to be a point where offside becomes onside, however narrowly, because that's how offside works.

The key thing with the above is that in the actual image they used to judge the offside (rather than the one you posted) Lukaku is offside beyond the MOE. They have to use the first image where there has definitely been contact with the ball and that was deemed to be the below. Obviously that then comes down to the inaccuracy of frame rates but then that's partly why they have the MOE.

 

Zlatan 7

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The most marginal calls are eliminated under this system. That doesn't mean there will be no tight calls though. There still has to be a point where offside becomes onside, however narrowly, because that's how offside works.

The key thing with the above is that in the actual image they used to judge the offside (rather than the one you posted) Lukaku is offside beyond the MOE. They have to use the first image where there has definitely been contact with the ball and that was deemed to be the below. Obviously that then comes down to the inaccuracy of frame rates but then that's partly why they have the MOE.

All nicely said but they disallowed a goal because of that without the accuracy to do so
 

Red Royal

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Technoligy cannnot currently, and may never, determine to 100% if a marginal call is offside or not. You could make it that we only allow the goal (or disallow) if it is clear and obvious. However that just moves the boundary of where we are disputing the lines.
In cricket, LBWs and fine edges are great for reviews, however catches very close to the ground are never conclusive.

So the tech is what is is right now, as long as there are no obviously wrong decisions (the Euros seem not to have any) then I would be happy to keep it. The issue comes in with Premier League and some daft decisions.
 

UncleBob

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The most marginal calls are eliminated under this system. That doesn't mean there will be no tight calls though. There still has to be a point where offside becomes onside, however narrowly, because that's how offside works.

The key thing with the above is that in the actual image they used to judge the offside (rather than the one you posted) Lukaku is offside beyond the MOE. They have to use the first image where there has definitely been contact with the ball and that was deemed to be the below. Obviously that then comes down to the inaccuracy of frame rates but then that's partly why they have the MOE.
1: The picture of Lukaku is pretty much the very definition of offsides that has annoyed fans of the PL since VAR was introduced. The tip and outside of Lukakus boot is how many cm offside?

2: The wording is wrong. What they are doing, and what the PL will be doing next season, is increase the error of margin so that it will be more pleasing on the eye. It doesn't, in any way, eliminate marginal calls, but it should mean that the marginal calls that have been viewed as offside will be onside under the new revision. Essentially you might be allowed to be 8cm offside, but you're still arguing if it's 8cm or 8,1.
 

sullydnl

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1: The picture of Lukaku is pretty much the very definition of offsides that has annoyed fans of the PL since VAR was introduced. The tip and outside of Lukakus boot is how many cm offside?

2: The wording is wrong. What they are doing, and what the PL will be doing next season, is increase the error of margin so that it will be more pleasing on the eye. It doesn't, in any way, eliminate marginal calls, but it should mean that the marginal calls that have been viewed as offside will be onside under the new revision. Essentially you might be allowed to be 8cm offside, but you're still arguing if it's 8cm or 8,1.
In the frame they actually used, Lukaku is offside beyond the margin of error. In the Dutch League at least that MOE is 10cm, as they stick with the onfield decision when the two 5cm lines touch. We've seen many narrower calls than this in the PL.

There's not much more they can do to improve things further until semi-automated offsides are introduced over the next couple of years. Wherever you have a line, you will have decisions that fall just outside it. That won't change while you have an offside rule. You're either off or on, wherever the line is and you will have marginal calls wherever the line is.

The point of this change isn't that it stops there ever being a close offside. It's that it greatly reduces the amount of offsides that get VAR'd, reduces delays and makes the most objectionable calls like the below a thing of the past. All of which makes VAR far quicker and less intrusive.

 
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Mb194dc

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Wenger offside law trial now!

People say it'll ruin high lines, maybe but I think you'll find the advantages of playing high still outweigh negative. Even with attacker half metre advantage.

Will be lots more goals and will reward more attacking teams and help counter attacks
 

P-Ro

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Do they add on extra time for all the attacks they allow play out when a player is clearly offside in the build up? It seems this alone wastes a couple of minutes a game.
 

Bastian

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Has there been anything to indicate that there will be some review on how it was used and how they can dramatically fix it for the coming season? Any acknowledgement that it's been far too inconsistent and corrupting the integrity of the game?