Right, but your opinion clearly can't be based on his shoulder position can it? Either he's made his body "unnaturally bigger" or he's moved the hand towards the ball. What is absolutely certain is that his hand is not above/beyond his shoulder (or even at shoulder height).
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The whole thing is ridiculous because what they are penalizing is goalkeeping technique.
De Gea wasn't charging the ball down or narrowing the angle, he was generating lateral power from a small step forward. He was driving to his right with his leg to generate the spring he needed to get down low to his right.
If that step forward now has to be from behind the line and the interception point with the ball virtually on the goal line itself, it's fair to say that the penalty taker holds all the aces.
The benchmark has been set from what was a very tight call at point of contact. Good luck with that.
De Gea wasn't charging the ball down or narrowing the angle, he was generating lateral power from a small step forward. He was driving to his right with his leg to generate the spring he needed to get down low to his right.
If that step forward now has to be from behind the line and the interception point with the ball virtually on the goal line itself, it's fair to say that the penalty taker holds all the aces.
The benchmark has been set from what was a very tight call at point of contact. Good luck with that.
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He was very conservative; to put it kindly, on tech. He knew this was coming.
I was ok with VAR when introduced but now I think, has it improved the game? It has not and actually made it worse to watch.
The best use is for goals over the line and even one of those was messed up last year.
The best use is for goals over the line and even one of those was messed up last year.
I‘m not going to get into details here and I‘m not trying to single you out, but I‘ve been working in gait and motion analysis for over 25 years now. You can‘t isolate a part of a movement and judge it without considering a very long list of other factors.
Good for you. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a penalty.
VAR officials should only be able to watch replays in real time and have a max number of times they can see an incident or offside call. If they can’t see an issue in that amount of times they are unable to overrule. This will prevent the one inch offsides and the scenario where a still image is much worse than something happening in motion.
How was De Gea not stepping out on the retaken penalty? He did exactly the same thing for Zaha's pen as he did for Ayew's. Is it only a retake if the keeper saves it?
Rewatched some of the other matches from yesterday also, and all the keepers were off their line as well, the incosistency in this is what makes it ridiculous for me.
Rewatched some of the other matches from yesterday also, and all the keepers were off their line as well, the incosistency in this is what makes it ridiculous for me.
The handball and retaken penalty decisions were so awful that nobody has even mentioned the Pogba decision. His boot was trodden off. In the incredibly technical nature of VAR decisions, how can that not be a penalty?
The retaken penalty was a horrific decision. New rule or not, that is just not what the rule is there to prevent. It was a vital moment in the game and the one time De Gea actually saved a bloody penalty!
The retaken penalty was a horrific decision. New rule or not, that is just not what the rule is there to prevent. It was a vital moment in the game and the one time De Gea actually saved a bloody penalty!
Poor Moyes, first Zaha rumour resurfacing, now Refs being bastards again.
I asked this further up, but why wasnt Zaha's penalty retaken as well? De Gea was equally off his line when Zaha scored. Is it only going to be redone if the keeper saves it?
The inconsistency in how the rules are applied is mindboggling.
Yes, I do believe so. There's no inconsistency, just the way that works, if there's no advantage to the keeper and his team, it's not retaken.
Pretty farcical, it's very difficult for a goalkeeper to stay on his line, like you said he came off his line for the Zaha penalty as well.
There was millimetres in it really, I recall in one match there was a goalkeeper who was so far off his line he was practically on the edge of the six yard box (I think it was Pickford) he saved the penalty and that was never retaken.
The retake decision is still infuriating. Not because it isn't technically the right decision, but because that rule is never used. I honestly don't think I have ever seen it given before, so at best it seems completely random, and at worst agenda-driven that it was given yesterday. Even though the two decisions are of course independent, it just makes it worse that the original penalty call was soft as well.
Last year against Norwich, Tim Krul saved two penalties against us. Just have a look at his positioning, when the penalties are taken. If the same rules applied, both of those would be retakes - the first one is particularly ridiculous.
I look forward to seeing how the rule is applied going forward. The refs better the consistent with this.
Last year against Norwich, Tim Krul saved two penalties against us. Just have a look at his positioning, when the penalties are taken. If the same rules applied, both of those would be retakes - the first one is particularly ridiculous.
I look forward to seeing how the rule is applied going forward. The refs better the consistent with this.
This! If it’s now consistent it’s okay but you just know it won’t and everyone will forget about it! Honestly I’m still fuming.
They're brought in VAR monitoring of goalies being off the line this season. We're going to see lots more of this going forward if the goalies can't stop themselves.
It’s totally killing my love and enjoyment of the game. Micro analysing a fast paced contact sport is ridiculous. I know people keep banging on about it being the rules and not VAR but the rules were never meant to take in account mm and split second decisions, they’re now being changed to accommodate VAR so it’s the rules that are getting the blame.
there’s no way it’s bringing more enjoyment to the game, I’ve already started withholding my celebrations after goals because getting the ball in the net is just stage one of scoring a goal these days, you then have to wait to make sure it passes VAR scrutiny, I can’t deal with the emotion change, release all that energy and joy to have it wiped away again. I went wild when deGea saved the pen yesterday, my little boy and I loving it for a few mins, game carries on, only for that feeling to be shattered. It’s ridiculous.
im quite sad that they’re ruining the sport due to money
there’s no way it’s bringing more enjoyment to the game, I’ve already started withholding my celebrations after goals because getting the ball in the net is just stage one of scoring a goal these days, you then have to wait to make sure it passes VAR scrutiny, I can’t deal with the emotion change, release all that energy and joy to have it wiped away again. I went wild when deGea saved the pen yesterday, my little boy and I loving it for a few mins, game carries on, only for that feeling to be shattered. It’s ridiculous.
im quite sad that they’re ruining the sport due to money
Well, if the rule is consistently applied throughout the entire season, that would at least be something. I will believe it, when I have seen it.
Also, I can't wait for the first time there is a five minute break in the game because the ref has to judge whether or not the goalkeeper has a foot on the line or not. I can already imagine how it has to be seen from eight different angles and at max zoom. It is going to be a shit show.
Didnt even look like you could drop a ruler down the gap from the still i seen. Mental decision
I was a fan of VAR but it has got stupid now. I thought it would help make decisions more objective, but now it has become a subjective farce. Pogba was fouled by 2 people yesterday in the box, looked more like a pen than Lindelofs handball.
Basically a precedent has been set, ball to hand = handball. But, that will not be the case for us. We won't get a pen like yesterday.
And with De Gea being what 2 cm off his line, will now every pen be policed with this level of strictness. Don't fecking hold your breath.
Basically a precedent has been set, ball to hand = handball. But, that will not be the case for us. We won't get a pen like yesterday.
And with De Gea being what 2 cm off his line, will now every pen be policed with this level of strictness. Don't fecking hold your breath.
Oh yeah the palace players in the box for the second is just fine, only one pedantic rule at a time!
You only get done for encroachment if you touch the ball on the rebound I understand.
Both the original penalty decision and the retake were diabolical decisions IMO. When the penalty taker stutters like that, the goalkeeper has to be given at least some leeway.
Not sure if it has been asked/answered but are you allowed to change the taker of a retaken penalty?
I’m sure I have seen occasions where the penalty has been retaken with no one touching it?
Spot on. These freeze frames of arms in a certain position are a joke. Anyone who ever played football, even 5 a sides with the lads will know your arms move about when you are running or twisting and turning. A defender who is focusing on blocking a shot while running cannot constantly readjust his arms. That is not football. It is way too robotic.
The peno retake was a joke too. Both feet are parallel with the line by millimetres. Rules/laws made by people who do not play any football. They forget hove much involuntary movement is involved in playing football. It was brought in to stop keepers being half way to the 6 yard line when the peno is taken.
The Gabriel one looked closer to the elbow than shoulder. Neither should be a peno.
As seen yesterday, yes.
Aye. The change over the last couple of years to setting out clear-cut rules around this complex area has so many unintended consequences. But the main thing is countless handballs awarded that the vast majority of players don’t agree with. The spirit of the handball rule has been completely bastardised to try and solve problems that didn’t really exist.
That is marginally worse than Lindelof’s I think. New handball rule is an absolute joke
VAR has been an absolute disaster. I fail to see how this has improved the game. Is this just it now regardless of whether it’s improved the game or not?
What an absolutely farcical rule it is.
Yet another pathetic VAR ruling 
It was handball, quit moaning
It shouldn’t be though, that’s the point. We’re changing rules to make VAR decisions easier, not improve the game. It’s fecking stupid.
Except it isn’t. As we saw in the Arsenal game yesterday. In no way should it instantly be a penalty just because the ball hits your arm.
That's just a handball regardless how shit the other decisions have been this weekend.
I don't like it. Make it stop.
If I was a player, I’d just aim for opponents arms now. Easier than scoring.
We bash it, but that Brighton goal is why we need it. Also, whoever decided on the new offside rule, well done. If a player isn’t active, he shouldn’t be offside.
Well done ref and VAR on this one. Credit where credit is due.
Well done ref and VAR on this one. Credit where credit is due.