Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

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If you read under it says:



Maguire is wrong side of the defender, so immediately impacts on the opponent.

Defender can't know about the offside and is also trying to move towards the ball. But is impacted by Maguire in the offside position.
See that would make sense to me, but that totally undercuts the stuff in that tweet (cos surely whoeever is fouling said player that is moving towards the ball is ALWAYS impacted by the offside player).
 

Mb194dc

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See that would make sense to me, but that totally undercuts the stuff in that tweet (cos surely whoeever is fouling said player that is moving towards the ball is ALWAYS impacted by the offside player).
Not necessarily, say if the defender commits a foul like if the defender cuffed Maguire around the head when Maguire is standing offside, which had nothing to do with the play. Then it's a pen.

If this wasn't the case, attackers could penalty farm by simply standing offside on the wrong side at every wide free kick, then just wait for defender to try to move through them to the ball and go down. Defender can never be sure if attacker 100% offside and would make a total mockery of set pieces. Attacker is gaining an advantage and impacting the defender 100% of the time in that scenario.

Pretty certain per the Sky referee watch that this was a mistake by VAR.
 

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Not necessarily, say if the defender commits a foul like if the defender cuffed Maguire around the head when Maguire is standing offside, which had nothing to do with the play. Then it's a pen.

If this wasn't the case, attackers could penalty farm by simply standing offside on the wrong side at every wide free kick, then just wait for defender to try to move through them to the ball and go down. Defender can never be sure if attacker 100% offside and would make a total mockery of set pieces. Attacker is gaining an advantage and impacting the defender 100% of the time in that scenario.

Pretty certain per the Sky referee watch that this was a mistake by VAR.
Well that's violent conduct isn't it? Which is different sort of offence, but yeah it's probably that - that tweet by IFAB isn't half confusing though!
 

OldSchoolManc

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Ref watch - Dermot Gallacher says the West Brom goal was no foul...
So attackers are now allowed to elbow defenders in the back of the head while face palming them.
I’m waiting to see if United have a goal stand for similar...
 

ajay1002

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Ref watch - Dermot Gallacher says the West Brom goal was no foul...
So attackers are now allowed to elbow defenders in the back of the head while face palming them.
I’m waiting to see if United have a goal stand for similar...
well, now our attackers know that this is perfectly fine, I'll be disappointed if they're not putting their hands over the defenders' eyes at every opportunity
 

OldSchoolManc

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well, now our attackers know that this is perfectly fine, I'll be disappointed if they're not putting their hands over the defenders' eyes at every opportunity
The very next corner we get, all our players in the box should place their hands over the opponent’s face...
 

redrobed

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Ref watch - Dermot Gallacher says the West Brom goal was no foul...
So attackers are now allowed to elbow defenders in the back of the head while face palming them.
I’m waiting to see if United have a goal stand for similar...
Why even ask Gallacher?! I remember seeing him on an episode of Homes Under The Hammer and there was a ‘Welcome to Anfield’ sign on his bedroom door. He’s a known ABU
 

charlenefan

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The ref that goes on SSN says it was the correct decision to allow West Brom's goal

Im officially done now, it's pure pot luck as to whether a decision goes for or against you
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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The officiating in the epl has been terrible, calls seem to be made on a whim, with the priority being to maintain some elusive balance, control game narratives and protect the image of infallibility of the refs. They want appear to be fair rather than actually be fair.

VAR, a problem (due to how it's applied), has also highlighted the ineptitude of the referees. Where they were excused before due to human error and having to make calls in real time, they now seem too incompetent to make calls from slowed down footage. It's been very erratic.

I think they should look to attract and employ outstanding referees from other leagues to raise the level of officiating, as happens with players. Not that there's a chance in hell of that happening, but it should.
 

Mb194dc

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Review of the week by ESPN going up:


On Chelsea note. Watching the Lascelles tackle on Tammy yesterday again I can't believe a foul wasn't given and it seemingly wasn't even reviewed. Yes he got a tiny bit on the ball but he's been recklessly scythed down and the tackle is in a scissor motion, nasty. How can that not be given in this day and age? Neville totally wrong imo.

Werner got hit in the face, drawing blood, again no foul. Also got pushed over going through on goal and nothing in the second half. Much more of a penalty than the the two over turned by VAR on the weekend, if it's flagged up to the referee to view on the monitor it's a pen 8 days a week.

Disgraceful refereeing and VAR performance all around for me.
 
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Annihilate Now!

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As suspected, Maguire probably would have been given offside (eventually) for the penalty shout. VAR just forgot to check... which is hilarious :lol:
 

Utd heap

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My main problem with VAR is even if used absolutely perfectly, by the best referee's in the world.

It kills the moment of a scoring a goal, and no amount of tweaking it will change that.

I notice Rooney has said the same today. Numerous goals in his career where you have a quick glance at the linesman before running off to celebrate/jump in the crowd - gone!

Surely we aren't going to just allow that to be 'the good old days'?
 

sullydnl

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Ridiculous that Moss didn't check for offside. Maguire being in an offside position was literally the first thing everyone noticed when they saw the replay of that incident.

The fact that he seems so sceptical of their explanation for the Amartey offside is also pretty damning. Even if it's right, they should be able to explain why in a way that makes sense. No wonder fans are suspicious when their communication is so poor.

Also, why do they even show the lines being drawn at all? It looks shite and adds confusion. Just show the end result like they do in the CL.
 

Shane88

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Review of the week by ESPN going up:


On Chelsea note. Watching the Lascelles tackle on Tammy yesterday again I can't believe a foul wasn't given and it seemingly wasn't even reviewed. Yes he got a tiny bit on the ball but he's been recklessly scythed down and the tackle is in a scissor motion, nasty. How can that not be given in this day and age? Neville totally wrong imo.

Werner got hit in the face, drawing blood, again no foul. Also got pushed over going through on goal and nothing in the second half. Much more of a penalty than the the two over turned by VAR on the weekend, if it's flagged up to the referee to view on the monitor it's a pen 8 days a week.

Disgraceful refereeing and VAR performance all around for me.
"Drawing blood."

Yeah that was some severe blood loss. Guy was a warrior for playing on...

A hand flicked his lip accidentally. It's no foul.

It's embarrassing watching football sometimes due to the likes of Werner last night. A literal drop of blood on his finger tip and a little boo boo on his lip and he was like "LOOK! LOOK!".
 

Cpt Negative

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Ridiculous that Moss didn't check for offside. Maguire being in an offside position was literally the first thing everyone noticed when they saw the replay of that incident.

The fact that he seems so sceptical of their explanation for the Amartey offside is also pretty damning. Even if it's right, they should be able to explain why in a way that makes sense. No wonder fans are suspicious when their communication is so poor.

Also, why do they even show the lines being drawn at all? It looks shite and adds confusion. Just show the end result like they do in the CL.
This has been covered (Maguire). The foul happened before the offside so the penalty would have stood.

Whilst I don’t agree with the rule, it was correct to ignore him being offside.
 

sullydnl

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This has been covered (Maguire). The foul happened before the offside so the penalty would have stood.

Whilst I don’t agree with the rule, it was correct to ignore him being offside.
Nope. That's what we (and indeed the journalist who wrote the above thread I was responding to) initially thought. But the journalist then actually checked with PGMOL who told him that the offside hadn't been checked in line with procedure and if it had been then offside should have been given.

Because while it's true that a foul before an offside offence should stand, that still involves subjectively deciding when the attacking player has become involved enough for the offside offence to have occured. And the PGMOL are saying that in this incident (and a previous similar Kane incident where offside wasn't called) the correct decision is to call the offside.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Honestly, with the shit players give refs I’m surprised it’s never happened before. One of the things this pandemic has shown, is just how abusive everyone is to the ref with no fan noise to cover it up. Moaning and swearing about every single thing. Judge was hard as feck there thinking he could get away with being a prick. They all do. You talk to someone like that in the street, youre in a fight.

Ref will get shit, but I can’t say I think he should get anything more than a seat on the naughty step. Anything more, and it’s almost like a message that it’s ok to abuse refs as much as you like cause they have to just take it.
 
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Honestly, with the shit players give refs I’m surprised it’s never happened before. One of the things this pandemic has shown, is just how abusive everyone is to the ref with no fan noise to cover it up. Moaning and swearing about every single thing. Judge was hard as feck there thinking he could get away with being a prick. They all do. You talk to someone like that in the street, youre in a fight.

Ref will get shit, but I can’t say I think he should get anything more than a seat on the naughty step. Anything more, and it’s almost like a message that it’s ok to abuse refs as much as you like cause they have to just take it.
Players are (generally) pampered babies and have been slowly allowed to give refs more and more grief.

Should just start booking them as soon as they're aggressive, chase after the ref, swear at him. 90% of players will shut up rather than get a second yellow. The other 10%.. tough.

Give it a few weeks, they'd stop. Their managers wouldn't allow it.

The flip side is captain's still being allowed to speak to refs (by themselves, not with his teammates lined up behind him).

The above works fine in rugby, partly because they're not babies (though has got a little worse in last few years) and partly as refs know their laws and the game doesn't make it ridiculously complicated like football has. They can also penalise players (relatively rare). In the absence of football refs or players being like this (0 chance), yellow cards will do the trick.
 

JakeC

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Laporte realizes he accidentally catches Richarlison on the cheek so has to pretend to be hurt :lol: VAR won't go near that.
 

JakeC

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I was in this thread originally to say, one thing I'd like to see brought in is when a player goes down clutching his face he's automatically brought off the pitch for a HIA. Stop all this nonsense.
 

JakeC

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Even that, Richarlison (a player I like) kicking the ball away, getting booked and waving "ah feck off" at the ref, stuff like that should be punished.
 

kidbob

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Laporte realizes he accidentally catches Richarlison on the cheek so has to pretend to be hurt :lol: VAR won't go near that.
fecking amateur players in the GAA play more fairly than these absolute pussies. I remember playing underage club football in a Gaelic football game and arguing that an opponent shouldn't be sent off for a accidental knock on me. More media coverage needs to be spent highlighting just how anti sportsmanship football as a game is. Its honestly disgusting the way players speak to the ref and try to cheat the opposition.

Its honestly that footballers are thought to do it because while playing GAA we were thought that fair play was the most important thing, so as impressionable young lads thats what we took to heart.
 

westley

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I think you guys could read the UEFA explanation about this rules:

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/abo...er=/insideuefa/about-uefa/news/newsid=2593061

The second decision was also correctly made on the basis of the Laws of the Game (Law 11 – Offside) which stipulates: “if a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence”.

The images in the picture above - taken at the exact same moment from two different angles - clearly show that a foul is committed inside the box before the Schalke player could even attempt to play the ball and hence such offence must be punished with the awarding of a penalty kick.
 

11101

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The FA should offer that Swiss ref a job. Proper calm and commanding performance, a far cry from the idiots we will have this weekend.
 

Foxbatt

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Players are (generally) pampered babies and have been slowly allowed to give refs more and more grief.

Should just start booking them as soon as they're aggressive, chase after the ref, swear at him. 90% of players will shut up rather than get a second yellow. The other 10%.. tough.

Give it a few weeks, they'd stop. Their managers wouldn't allow it.

The flip side is captain's still being allowed to speak to refs (by themselves, not with his teammates lined up behind him).

The above works fine in rugby, partly because they're not babies (though has got a little worse in last few years) and partly as refs know their laws and the game doesn't make it ridiculously complicated like football has. They can also penalise players (relatively rare). In the absence of football refs or players being like this (0 chance), yellow cards will do the trick.
Yes players get away with too much. Every time they say feck off to a referee, show him a yellow card. Every time they run at you aggressively show him a yellow card. It will stop instantly.
This used to happen early on. In 1966 the Argentina captain was sent off on the WC for his aggressive look at the referee.
 

Anustart89

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Players are (generally) pampered babies and have been slowly allowed to give refs more and more grief.

Should just start booking them as soon as they're aggressive, chase after the ref, swear at him. 90% of players will shut up rather than get a second yellow. The other 10%.. tough.

Give it a few weeks, they'd stop. Their managers wouldn't allow it.

The flip side is captain's still being allowed to speak to refs (by themselves, not with his teammates lined up behind him).

The above works fine in rugby, partly because they're not babies (though has got a little worse in last few years) and partly as refs know their laws and the game doesn't make it ridiculously complicated like football has. They can also penalise players (relatively rare). In the absence of football refs or players being like this (0 chance), yellow cards will do the trick.
In general, I'd agree with this, but there would be no consequences since referees would just ignore giving out the second yellow card, for dissent or any other incident, because the bar is higher for a second yellow and he wouldn't want dissent to mean that a player is sent off or something.

A few years back, they did direct the referees to be harsher on dissent and hand out yellows for it. Diego Costa was booked early for Chelsea against West Ham, but then he went and did this tackle on Adrian later in the game.



Was he shown a second yellow? No. Did he score the winning goal in that game? Yup. So in essence, he got a yellow for dissent but then escaped punishment for this tackle later, presumably because he was on a yellow card, meaning that the dissent law is pointless.

I'd love to see a referee give a player two yellows in the same game for dissent, but you're never going to see it happen.
 
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In general, I'd agree with this, but there would be no consequences since referees would just ignore giving out the second yellow card, for dissent or any other incident, because the bar is higher for a second yellow and he wouldn't want dissent to mean that a player is sent off or something.

A few years back, they did direct the referees to be harsher on dissent and hand out yellows for it. Diego Costa was booked early for Chelsea against West Ham, but then he went and did this tackle on Adrian later in the game.



Was he shown a second yellow? No. Did he score the winning goal in that game? Yup. So in essence, he got a yellow for dissent but then escaped punishment for this tackle later, presumably because he was on a yellow card, meaning that the dissent law is pointless.

I'd love to see a referee give a player two yellows in the same game for dissent, but you're never going to see it happen.
But rugby refs have no problem with punishing/carding the same offence as many times as needed. I know what you're saying but I just think thats down to the quality of the refs and the way the game is (mis)managed.

Tell clubs pre season, dissent is mandatory card, as many times as needed. Tell refs they're getting monitored (as they're meant to be now but it's seems they're immune .. unless they lower their head to a mouthy git) and they get dropped if they repeatedly don't card players. Finally, tell and re-tell clubs that any player who gets three yellows for dissent gets a one game ban.

I'd rather the game flowed, the players behaved but they don't seem to want to change voluntarily so tough. Players have always moaned at refs but now, it's vitriol. Supposed to be sportsmen.
 

Globule

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Strong language by Souness. Can't say I disagree with him. I honestly can't remember the last match I watched that didn't have some significant refereeing controversy, but I would hazard a guess it was a European match.
 

Shane88

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Souness talking sense, for once.

He's 100% right in saying that they make it up as they go along. There is zero consistency in decisions. Too often they referee games according to the narrative of the game, or the players involved. It should be by the laws of the game, not how the ref is feeling that day.

Also, the way they never have to answer for these decisions just breeds arrogance.
 

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It’s easy to say but I’d like to think if I was the manager of the team who won that penalty I’d ask the taker to just pass it to the keeper. It was ridiculous

Shocking decision.
This is what I don't get.
Chelsea got a penalty for something that was as close to that one as you could get, yet Sheffield Utd didn't get one.
I know people are going to say neither were obvious mistakes but, one of them must have been or we would have had the same outcome!
 

Anustart89

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Unbelievable :lol:

They’re fecking awful. I honestly think I would do a better job as VAR, and I say this as an invitation to the FA to invite me to be VAR for a day to show them how shit these supposed referees are. I’d actually do it better from my sofa than they are from their stupid bus.