Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

Berbasbullet

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They should all be mic’d up like this. Just so everyone can understand what is happening and why.

Who wants transparency and clarity over a decision when we can have confusion and anger?

It’s pretty obvious why they will never do that, because referees genuinely don’t know what they’re doing, it’s as simple as that, imagine hearing their conversation and then the Twitter outrage as millions retweet the correct rule they should be following.
 

Mb194dc

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Who wants transparency and clarity over a decision when we can have confusion and anger?

It’s pretty obvious why they will never do that, because referees genuinely don’t know what they’re doing, it’s as simple as that, imagine hearing their conversation and then the Twitter outrage as millions retweet the correct rule they should be following.
Credit to officiating in that video.

Get them over here to train the premier league how it should be done.

Side note, dissent needs to be enforced properly. The amount of times you see players and managers swearing at the referees with zero consequences..... Chelsea Burnley game recently was really bad for it.
 

NoneBmStore

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Don’t know if it’s been discussed anywhere else but how were Liverpool awarded a penalty today. ???
 

big rons sovereign

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Don’t know if it’s been discussed anywhere else but how were Liverpool awarded a penalty today. ???
Salah was assaulted from behind, the perpetrator (Diaz) then elbowed 3 other players in the face and fingered klopps wife.
It really was quite shocking, it should've been 3 penalties at least. La.
 

Bojan11

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Azpilicueta standing behind the VAR monitor whilst the ref is looking and screaming at the ref. When was this allowed and why has the ref not booked him? Maguire needs to do this next game, if it's allowed.
 

sullydnl

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Wonder if it would be a good idea to have dedicated VARs who are trained to be good at that specific job rather than just swapping refs in and out? I can see pros and cons with the idea.

As for the above video, it's definitely true that one of the key differences between the TMO in rugby and VAR in football is the fact that you can actually hear their conversation with the ref and understand why they're giving certain decisions. Yet the PL in particular struggle to explain the decisions even after the match.
 

Sylar

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Var is now a complete farce with decisions taking ages to check, and then still being over turned after the game

The West Ham one over turned
Is this the second one over turned with Mike dean involved?
 

UncleBob

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Var is now a complete farce with decisions taking ages to check, and then still being over turned after the game

The West Ham one over turned
Is this the second one over turned with Mike dean involved?
Yup, in less than a week
 

sullydnl

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Surprised but pleased it was overturned. Was expecting them just to back Mason given this is his second overturn so quickly.
 

jymufc20

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Mike Dean has asked not to officiate any games this weekend after receiving death threats.
 

Zlatan 7

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Wonder if it would be a good idea to have dedicated VARs who are trained to be good at that specific job rather than just swapping refs in and out? I can see pros and cons with the idea.

As for the above video, it's definitely true that one of the key differences between the TMO in rugby and VAR in football is the fact that you can actually hear their conversation with the ref and understand why they're giving certain decisions. Yet the PL in particular struggle to explain the decisions even after the match.
I’d say that if they do have specific VAR refs then they need to be ex actual refs or players so they can atleast read a game of football and know about speed of incidents. I find it hard to explain but if there’s a dedicated VAR ref who’s never set foot on a high intensity fast paced game on a pitch but done his training through video and slow motion replays it just has a weird feel to it.

I also think that different refs ref differently (obviously) so the players get a feel for what’s going on on the field and what the refs allowing/ not falling for and play to that and then all of a sudden the VAR ref pops up with his interpretation of a decision. It’s a strange one.
 

jymufc20

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There has to be accountability for that, surely


Sad that this happens
I do think away from that he (and refs) should be punished for getting something so badly wrong despite so many reviews
I agree, I think it would solve a lot of refereeing problems if they knew there was possible sanctions for cocking up consistently.

I'm just not on the bandwagon of sending death threats, it's a game of football for Christ sake get over it.
 

Beachryan

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The solution is so, so simple. If the referee/ the VAR official deems an incident needs review, the referee can watch for up to 2 minutes, in real time. No slow motion, no lines, no frame-by-frame. No different referee.

It is the only thing that prevents practically every decision from being evaluated differently. Anytime slow motion and freeze frame is introduced it is not fair imo.

Referee's personal inpretation of the rules has always been a key facet of football. Now all that's happened is it's not just inconsistency between referees, it's inconsistency in their decisions in the same match.
 

Eugenius

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Azpilicueta standing behind the VAR monitor whilst the ref is looking and screaming at the ref. When was this allowed and why has the ref not booked him? Maguire needs to do this next game, if it's allowed.
Yeah, definitely a yellow card needed.
 

Zlatan 7

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I agree, I think it would solve a lot of refereeing problems if they knew there was possible sanctions for cocking up consistently.

I'm just not on the bandwagon of sending death threats, it's a game of football for Christ sake get over it.
that’s my view towards VAR use in general. Why ruin the game that’s been around and loved for decades, bad decision, get over it.

must be the money!
 

tomaldinho1

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They should all be mic’d up like this. Just so everyone can understand what is happening and why.

The sad thing is nothing about this would be hard to setup, it's just a clear decision not to be transparent.

Refs need way more protection from human error, they also need to be mic'd up and allowed to give out yellows for dissent. Game needs cleaning up, especially now without crowds you realise just how bad managers and coaching staff are and I have no doubt if I was getting verbally abused by someone I'd be influenced by it positively or negatively in my decision making.
 

saivet

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They should all be mic’d up like this. Just so everyone can understand what is happening and why.

Most of the time broadcasters do know what's happening and let viewers know. I'm not sure getting a microphone on the referee's would solve anything. Bad decisions will be made regardless.
 

Berbaclass

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Most of the time broadcasters do know what's happening and let viewers know. I'm not sure getting a microphone on the referee's would solve anything. Bad decisions will be made regardless.
It’s increased accountability knowing they everyone can hear their thought process and how they arrive at a decision. It would only make things better.
 

hubbuh

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The solution is so, so simple. If the referee/ the VAR official deems an incident needs review, the referee can watch for up to 2 minutes, in real time. No slow motion, no lines, no frame-by-frame. No different referee.

It is the only thing that prevents practically every decision from being evaluated differently. Anytime slow motion and freeze frame is introduced it is not fair imo.

Referee's personal inpretation of the rules has always been a key facet of football. Now all that's happened is it's not just inconsistency between referees, it's inconsistency in their decisions in the same match.
I like this, I think. It's the ridiculous zooming in, slowing down, and complete decontextualisation of moments that are contributing to the current circus. You'd still get inconsistencies in referees decisions as they aren't a hivemind but it would give them a chance to see the event again and make a better-informed decision. I don't know how this would work with offsides, though? If there was no frame-by-frame it's going to be difficult to call an offside if there's not much in it.
 

Cassidy

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Most of the time broadcasters do know what's happening and let viewers know. I'm not sure getting a microphone on the referee's would solve anything. Bad decisions will be made regardless.
The boadcasters only know there is a review. They don’t know whats been said
 

Galeano

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Football has never been a game of transparency and justice.
Obviously, those who decide have always been radically against technology and only accepted it, transforming it into the current confusion.

It's a shame. That we have to watch in almost every game.
 

saintquin

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Peter Walton is bang on at BT . Laws were written without var and are slowly being changed based on that . Based on the law Mike Dean made the right call
Totally wrong (imo). I think Martial made the contact and dived. Bednarek tried as hard as he could to avoid being kicked and got sent off for it!
The only controversy tonight was 3 mins stoppage time. We could lose the league on goal difference by one goal. It’s not impossible. You have to play the minimum amount of time the game was stopped for. It was double just for the pen. Add in four subs and four goals. Should’ve been at least 8 minutes.
If you lose the league by one goal then that's because you were giving a penalty you scored from that wasn't a penalty.
True you may have been awarded a penalty in the first half but, there's no guarantee you would have scored

I've always said football is a game of human skill and human error and I would say referee's make fewer mistakes than most if not all the players in a match.
VAR is killing the game of football for anyone with an ounce of a sporting brain. I know I'm watching less and less full matches every week and rely more on highlight programmes for my football fix!
 

UncleBob

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Peter Walton is bang on at BT . Laws were written without var and are slowly being changed based on that . Based on the law Mike Dean made the right call
How? Why?

VIOLENT CONDUCT

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.

 

saintquin

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Am I on my own in thinking that the accidental/intentional rule is far too lenient on defenders anyway? If you've stopped a clear goal scoring opportunity, accidental or otherwise, then you should be off in my opinion. I don't think there was anything wrong with the rule and I don't know why they changed it. It's created a lot of controversy regarding somehing I think is cut and dried.
I think think it's still a red card if the foul was made outside penalty area by the last defender even if he make an attempt to play the ball. Because the attacking team don't get a penalty the defender has denied a goal scoring chance. If inside the box and a penalty is given then the attacking team still has a goal scoring opportunity.
I didn’t think the Martial penalty was a penalty but it is these days. They should take a leaf from Rugby whereby the man in the van will speak to the ref directly and his linesmen help too. They also will put the incident on the ‘big screen’. Then it’s all about interpretation, last night United fans would say yes to the pen and Saints fans no. The Referee in Rugby is the sole arbiter of fact and, although players may disagree, they take the decision and get on with it. To be fair, there is no tooling about with computer images and some offences are technical ones. For VAR to work and be fair, the offside Law should be improved and made clearer so elbows cannot be offside for instance. Perhaps say the torso must be behind or level with the last defender. I would still like to see a ‘sin bin’ for players that ‘take one for the team’ like pulling a player back when they get on a run.
They don't use line drawn on the pitch for offside in rugby. They show the the ref on the stadium screen when a possible offside happens. The officials view it together and decide if it's obvious or not. All the officials are mick'd up and fans can buy a "ref link" for the whole season and listen to them in all the matches.
Just reading Dermot Gallagher on ref watch about Che Adams disallowed goal. He says because the process was messy and they drew the lines twice, they should "let the goal stand".

But both times they drew the lines, it came up Offside. Granted, it looked onside to the eye, but if the technology says Offside twice, why would you go against it? The scoreline at the time is irrelevant.
Agree with that. If the same answer is the same twice why would you go against it.
A calculator will give the correct answer to the numbers being put into it but. if the numbers are wrong the answer will be wrong for that sum. The problem with technology is. it's only going on what a human is putting it.
 

big rons sovereign

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Totally wrong (imo). I think Martial made the contact and dived. Bednarek tried as hard as he could to avoid being kicked and got sent off for it!

If you lose the league by one goal then that's because you were giving a penalty you scored from that wasn't a penalty.
True you may have been awarded a penalty in the first half but, there's no guarantee you would have scored

I've always said football is a game of human skill and human error and I would say referee's make fewer mistakes than most if not all the players in a match.
VAR is killing the game of football for anyone with an ounce of a sporting brain. I know I'm watching less and less full matches every week and rely more on highlight programmes for my football fix!
Everybody's talking about the contact being on the legs and ignoring that the defender grabbed his shoulder on the way past.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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How? Why?

VIOLENT CONDUCT

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.
Sorry but you quoted my post from the United game . Not my fault that Mike Dean gives so many reds :D:D
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Totally wrong (imo). I think Martial made the contact and dived. Bednarek tried as hard as he could to avoid being kicked and got sent off for it!

If you lose the league by one goal then that's because you were giving a penalty you scored from that wasn't a penalty.
True you may have been awarded a penalty in the first half but, there's no guarantee you would have scored

I've always said football is a game of human skill and human error and I would say referee's make fewer mistakes than most if not all the players in a match.
VAR is killing the game of football for anyone with an ounce of a sporting brain. I know I'm watching less and less full matches every week and rely more on highlight programmes for my football fix!

My post was obviously assuming that Dean was giving a penalty. I think the penalty was a shaky one but if you are giving a penalty then you have to give a red there . Penalty was soft no doubt
 

DelPotro

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Mike Dean playing the victim card to distract people from his incompetence. Two wrong card decisions in a week. People keep complaining about VAR but it's the people behind the VAR who are the problem. They are immune from criticism because players/managers who call them out will get banned. Made a terrible decision? Don't worry they don't have to explain themselves and will proceed to be the referee in another game a few days later. There's a reason why no English referees were at the World Cup.
 

Jeppers7

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Totally wrong (imo). I think Martial made the contact and dived. Bednarek tried as hard as he could to avoid being kicked and got sent off for it!

If you lose the league by one goal then that's because you were giving a penalty you scored from that wasn't a penalty.
True you may have been awarded a penalty in the first half but, there's no guarantee you would have scored

I've always said football is a game of human skill and human error and I would say referee's make fewer mistakes than most if not all the players in a match.
VAR is killing the game of football for anyone with an ounce of a sporting brain. I know I'm watching less and less full matches every week and rely more on highlight programmes for my football fix!
Sure...making contact in the box isn’t a penalty. Ok. Both the ref and var agreed it was a penalty. Some might think it’s soft. That doesn’t make it not a pen.
 

Jeppers7

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How? Why?

VIOLENT CONDUCT

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.
How did Lamela avoid a red card on Martial ? It’s ridiculous.
 

saintquin

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Everybody's talking about the contact being on the legs and ignoring that the defender grabbed his shoulder on the way past.
Sure...making contact in the box isn’t a penalty. Ok. Both the ref and var agreed it was a penalty. Some might think it’s soft. That doesn’t make it not a pen.
Yep, you're correct. Refs and VAR have never made a mistake so they must be right. Though I'm not sure VAR was used to see if they thought it was a penalty or not and, even if they were they never seem to overrule the refs.
The laws are a challenge made where no attempt to play the ball is made is a red card, Bednarek made no attempt to play the ball but, made every effort to avoid contact with Martial. If there was contact it was so small (this is what gets me) it wasn't enough to bring Martial down. So it's got to be a foul at every bit of contact everywhere on the pitch.
From what I've seen the first (may be only) contact was made by Martial.
It's annoyed me for years when attackers are through on goal and as they go past the keeper the attacker throws a leg out sideway to make contact with the keeper. Ref gives a penalty and sends keeper off when it was the attacker that kicked the keeper.
 
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Zlatan 7

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"Let me know when I'm on screen, let me know when i'm on screen"

no thanks.
Why does he need to know when he’s on screen, twice! :lol:
mike dean would love this, I’ve always thought he liked the attention but after watching his crouch podcast I’m convinced he loves the attention. I was also shocked he said he wouldn’t have give aguerro the second yellow for removing his top in goal celebration if he’d already been booked. Yeah cool Mike, you do what you want.
 

90 + 5min

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Most of the time broadcasters do know what's happening and let viewers know. I'm not sure getting a microphone on the referee's would solve anything. Bad decisions will be made regardless.
I think that is excatly what it should be done. Microphones. It would be transparent and we would not need to guess what referee saw in some incidents.
 

acnumber9

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We now have refs watching players getting fouled while taking a throw in and thinking, “yeah, nothing wrong with that”.