If he had the ability to play the ball were Phillips not there I'd agree, but in my view he wasn't in such a position. If he had zero ability to play the ball with or without Phillips then Phillips had no material impact on his ability to play the ball. I mean, Phillips 'could have' interfered with his ability to play the ball were Alisson in a position to do so, but he wasn't, so Phillips couldn't.
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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I remember an Everton goal being disallowed against us a while back and there was uproar and Calvert Lewin even got an interview to say how it was a disaster. Have WBA been allowed to bring it up? Did Souness and/or Redknapp condemn it?
They also spent several minutes looking at it. Today got a cursory glance.
At that time few refs confirmed why it was given as offside, 'Line of sight' or 'line of vision' was the term used and player was in line of sight of the keeper. Likewise today's decision was spot on too.
The refs/VAR don't make a call on whether Alisson could or couldn't have actually done anything without Phillips being there though, it isn't a factor in their decision. Because if it was then they'd be dragged into the tricky area of deciding what is/isn't saveable for a goalkeeper.
The other way to phrase it would be "did Phillips impact on Allison's ability to try to play the ball?". Even if we think it would have been a materially hopeless attempt, the offside would still be given for impacting on it.
We all hate Liverpool, but surely you can't say that a guy standing a few cm directly in front of the keeper isn't interfering with play.
In my opinion if Phillips isn't there Allison doesn't save it. Too much pace on the ball. However phillips is right in front of him. As the laws go he is obstructing the view of the keeper and its rightly ruled out.
I reckon that one is definitely offside. From the moment the ball is kicked to the moment of the ricochet the keeper's line of sight is impinged. I just don't think that's true of today's one.
If I saw one other example of a goal being disallowed for somebody being in the line of sight of the keeper for the pass before the shot I could maybe see the points being raised. Has it ever happened before?
If the Everton one, where the player is on the floor, is interference then the West Brom one today also has to be given offside.
In my opinion both were not actually hindering the keeper in anyway.
In my opinion as a referee (and a Liverpool fan but I like to think i can be objective), Alisson's line of sight was blocked by the player 2 yards in front him so the goal was correctly ruled out.
The free kick that led to Liverpools first should have been a drop ball as everyone here probably knows. It was a big mistake by Dean who will be kicking himself but in the phase of play that followed, there were plenty of chances for WBA to get rid of the ball and they fecked it up.
I think Dean has made the mistake because of how quickly Thiago has picked the ball up, placed it down and then played it. It was about 2 secs and the referee has lost his train of thought. It happens in games and has happened to me on a few occasions and honestly, as a referee, you kick yourself massively for it.
The free kick that led to Liverpools first should have been a drop ball as everyone here probably knows. It was a big mistake by Dean who will be kicking himself but in the phase of play that followed, there were plenty of chances for WBA to get rid of the ball and they fecked it up.
I think Dean has made the mistake because of how quickly Thiago has picked the ball up, placed it down and then played it. It was about 2 secs and the referee has lost his train of thought. It happens in games and has happened to me on a few occasions and honestly, as a referee, you kick yourself massively for it.
I don’t understand the hands rule anymore and when it should be red. Red card for Reims vs PSG seemed very tough imo and the ref gave the victory to PSG.
He was about 5 feet away from the keeper. If it was at the other end they would have given Liverpool the goal, 100%
The first header becomes a pass to a player in an onside position with nobody impeding the keepers view of the player who scored. The goal should stand.
No chance it would have stood for Liverpool either.
Neither of them made a mistake. You cannot assume the very thing that's under dispute, which is whether a mistake has been made in the first place.
That's as conclusive as evidence for a passive offside is gonna get. There is no way to stand there without interfering with play. At the very least you are a body to be taken into account when the keeper decides how to position himself and react, and at worst you are completely obscuring the ball. There's no way to excavate Alisson's thought process nor could there ever be, even if you were to use eye sight technology to see exactly what he is seeing. It impacted him or didn't, feck knows, but it's really not hard to see how it could have, and that's all a referee needs to take into account.How on earth is it a mistake?
This is the moment the ball is played:
The only way the offside player could be more in the goalkeeper's line of sight is if he had his hands over his eyes.
You can do a cone of vision analysis in some post match studio/lab, but in this case it's so clear cut it would be redundant.
I dont know ?? Seem to get the rub of the green
A mistake in judgment. The rule stipulates, black on white, that is has to clearly impact the line of vision. It is an element that is left to the referees to decide.
To be frank, it does not really matter anymore. What is done is done.
Does this mean anytime a player stands next to a keeper at a corner it's obstruction too?
Basically, yes.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Goalline technology is focused on one solitary position with one variable - far more straightforward. This is why Hawkeye is a thing in tennis - the lines are fixed and the ball is the only variable. The technology simply isn't to that point yet for offsides - you are arguing that the sky is green and not blue right now.
He was penalised because he was offside and you can't be offside from a corner.
But if, say, someone took a quick short corner and then played the ball from the exact same area (so a player standing in front of the goalkeeper could be offside) then yes, it would be diallowed if it played out in the same way. But it's obviously less likely to be offside coming off the back of a corner as there will often be defenders on the line or whatever.
Chelsea done over by VAR and referees two days in a row.
This is literally what I've been telling you repeatedly - given the current limitations of the technology, there is effectively a 16 cm margin of error frame to frame if players are moving at 30 kmph relative to each other (aka more or less jogging towards each other).
Absolutely mind-boggling that that pen was given. Changed the entire game imo.
Oh the women too?
I just meant at Wembley then today with the bin dipping twats
Oh hah! Completely misunderstood you there mate, you're spot on. The women got done by a diabolical decision for Barca's second right as they were getting to grips with the game. Ah well!
You've been done 3 times in that case!
Can't you and Leicester find a way of getting Liverpool out of the top 4 please
Would that I could - down to Burnley and Palace it seems...
A bit like McTominay did on Thu?
Just fricking concentrate on winning the CL and do us all, including yourselves, a favour.
Even Hawkeye isn't 100 percent accurate, though. There have been plenty of examples of players raging due to outcalls when chalk indicated that the ball must have hit the line.
If that has its flaws, this - which you pointed out is more complex - is going to face even more issues.
Just fricking concentrate on winning the CL and do us all, including yourselves, a favour.
Fair play to Alisson today; he seems a genuinely decent bloke going through a tough time. Thought his post-match comments were brilliant. Hard to begrudge him that even if I was going mental in front of the telly!
His line of sight wasn't blocked because the ball was high in the air at the time it was flicked on - meaning that Alisson could clearly see it.
With regards the brainfart by Dean for allowing a freekick instead of an uncontested dropball, and it should have been disallowed by VAR because of the error.
If we're going to allow the referee's to change the rules during the game, then why not just let them award corners when it goes out for throwings etc.
It was a clear mistake by Dean and VAR should have disallowed the goal.
Farce.
Are they legacy supporters?
You only need to look at Alisson's protests when the second goal went in. Even in his protests he paid no attention to Phillips, he was only protesting pointing at Bartley to bring attention that he had touched it and was (potentially) offside.
The fact they only looked at it for a few seconds, like the Cup final, and the fact that they didn't pull up Liverpool's first goal for Mike Dean making up his own rules for the game leading directly to starting an attack that led to a goal makes it all rather unpalatable.
The fact they only looked at it for a few seconds, like the Cup final, and the fact that they didn't pull up Liverpool's first goal for Mike Dean making up his own rules for the game leading directly to starting an attack that led to a goal makes it all rather unpalatable.
I’d appreciate if I can get an answer:
If Chelsea win the UCL and Liverpool finish fourth in the league, who makes champions league next year? Only Chelsea or both Chelsea and Liverpool?
If Chelsea win the UCL and Liverpool finish fourth in the league, who makes champions league next year? Only Chelsea or both Chelsea and Liverpool?
You say straight forward when all of us discussing this are as stupid as each other. We have no idea how easy or hard it is and being dumb about it doesnt put it in doubt.
World football isnt judging offsides by cms because its unreliable.
All you're literally saying here is no it isnt to everything thats explained to you. Either research it or don't. Everything is out there for you find. You can start here
Yes the super slo mo cameras are recording at 1000fps but there's is only a few and there generally pointed directly at the action close up to capture interesting slo mo replays, not very useful for offside calls, where you need an overview of the pitch, which is why they use the broadcast pictures.
Apparently if the game isn't being live broadcasted then its recorded at 24 FPS making the margin of error for VAR even bigger.
Both a maximum of five teams from the Premier league can gain entry to the champions league next year.
There is literally nothing in there about frame rate. I don't doubt that the lines are drawn correctly on a given frame, the issue is the choice of frame matters hugely and it's a massive problem that's overlooked.