Non sense. The Zouma foul is as clear as it get. Ronaldo going down or not doesn't change validity of a foul. At a stretch u can call a first one 50/50
Refs & VAR 2021/22
- Thread starter 11101
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
And yet City got the benefit of a decision being overruled just yesterday. So that’s not how it works at all.
I can defend not giving the last Ronaldo-penalty. Because he was on his way down before - I still think it was penalty, but it can be possible to be fooled. But how Atkinson or VAR did not give a penalty for the Coufal-one is impossible to understand.
It seems VAR has decided only to overturn handballs - and not do anything about anything else
It seems VAR has decided only to overturn handballs - and not do anything about anything else
VAR seems to be operating at the minute depending on much the home team and players scream for penalties.
Can't work out who making the calls on reviews as they just seem to letting stuff go
Can't work out who making the calls on reviews as they just seem to letting stuff go
VAR in the bin this weekend. Refs have had an absolute mare
It seems like they are only overturning indisputable facts, like handballs. Any judgement calls whatsoever, ie fouls are being ignored.
They advised Atkinson to check the Shaw one on the screen, so why not do that for the Zouma one? If the VAR don’t want to make a decision on a foul themselves then at least tell the ref to take a better look and decide for himself.
Leicester have had 4 goals ruled out in a week by VAR, is that a record ?
Unless it’s at city
Ah yes of course. The man in charge of VAR there you ask? Martin Atkinson.
No issues with any of the other decisions but that Zouma tackle on Ronaldo was as clear a penalty as you can see. Genuinely baffling there was no VAR intervention.
People need to realise how clear at least 2 of those 3 penalty shouts were. It was at least 70:30 clear penalty and that is being charitable.
Agree Atkinson is pathetic though. VAR to afraid to correct referee mistakes now.
VAR works. We've seen it enough competitions to know that.
However, VAR only works when the people in charge of it are competent.
The penalty shouts in the West Ham game show that English referees just are bad. What other explanation is there for what we saw today?
However, VAR only works when the people in charge of it are competent.
The penalty shouts in the West Ham game show that English referees just are bad. What other explanation is there for what we saw today?
I am tempted to suggest that they should introduce the same rule they have in several other sports - where a team is allowed to object to a decision x times a game, and force the referee to go out and check that decision on VAR. It shouldn't be necessary - but it seems these days the video-referee refuses to overturn the referee, so the teams should be able to make the referee watch the decision.
Let's say both teams are allowed to do it twice a game.
Let's say both teams are allowed to do it twice a game.
The scary part is - in my opinion, the Coufal one was even more stonewall. But yeah - both are penalties
The VAR shambles continues. Proof, if any was needed, that it can never be fit for purpose. Either tedious, time-consuming and over the top nit-picking or the “light touch” crap which repeatedly misses blatant foul play. Ronaldo’s penalties aside the fact that VAR reviewed the Brighton penalty yet missed the foul on Westerggard is absolutely insane.
Yeah the calls in the Leicester game were terrible. Managers must be pulling their hair out, the consistency of refereeing has been poor so far this season.
How was the Walker foul overturned?
That one was Wow! to me. No contact with ball, from the side, not in a good position. Without him laying on attackers back after the challenge the attacker could keep possession and get up with an opportunity. How is that a clear and obvious error. It’s not, they just like the get out of jail card whenever they feel like it.
If that is the case then why did moss overturn the penalty/red card yesterday ?
Except it doesn't seem to be that way. Depending on the whims and fancies of the screen ref, he may or may not decide the field ref to come and have a look. In some games, small trips are looked couple of times. In some games, they are deemed not worth even looking into.
Please explain Kyle Walkers penalty being overturned then? If that is a clear and obvious error we should just call it a season and have a lottery for the title winner.
We should go the tennis way and allow the team captains to decide if they want a VAR check and have a limited number of appeals. If they win appeal, they dont get their number of appeals deducted. Else one appeal goes away.
And the VAR check should be independent, broadcasted on TV. Not ref taking one second and saying nothing and public not knowing whether the ref inside is there or had gone to take a dump.
And the VAR check should be independent, broadcasted on TV. Not ref taking one second and saying nothing and public not knowing whether the ref inside is there or had gone to take a dump.
VAR is a joke.
It’s seemed pretty obvious to me for a while that there was a massive amount of embarrassment last season by refs who had their decisions overturned, it’s no coincidence that it’s practically stopped now altogether.
they just use it now to cement their decisions, justifying things they’ve already done.. they’re never going to have VAR pull back for a penalty once the ref is adamant it wasn’t, makes him look weak
they just use it now to cement their decisions, justifying things they’ve already done.. they’re never going to have VAR pull back for a penalty once the ref is adamant it wasn’t, makes him look weak
This idea is that it has to be a "super-foul" to qualify for a penalty is so absurd.
That's definitely the case with some Ref's I think was it Mike Dean wouldn't let any of his decisions be overturned when he viewed them on the monitor.Went with his original decision every time. So much so that two of his red cards had to be overturned retrospectively after the games had finished.
Some of these Refs Dean especially have massive egos so it's probably a pride issue.
I think it is becoming clear that the PL guidelines for ref are all very vague and open to interpretation, not to mention that the PL itself keeps changing their stance like what they did with handball rules and offside rules etc. Also it is clear that the VAR ref is just doing things based on however it suits them, sometimes just agreeing to whatever field ref decides, sometimes not, probably because he sees the ref as a colleague and doesn't want to undermine him or worse is intimidated by the on field ref's position/experience and doesn't want to cross his ego.
I strongly disagree with all of you.
VAR is redone this year to correct clear and obvious errors.
Lot of fouls look bas when in slow mow. But vap is allowing the ref to make the calls and only assist when its an obvious error.
So I would be happier if var continued as is.
And we didn’t deserve any pk today. Ronnie was looking for all of them
VAR is redone this year to correct clear and obvious errors.
Lot of fouls look bas when in slow mow. But vap is allowing the ref to make the calls and only assist when its an obvious error.
So I would be happier if var continued as is.
And we didn’t deserve any pk today. Ronnie was looking for all of them
Yes, legs need to be broken and there should be blood on the grass before VAR overturns something in the box.
it seems they made a few changes with how it all works and somehow managed to make it even worse
impressive really
impressive really
I don't know. Just explaining how Var should work on paper. Why Moss and his Var pals did that is a mystery to me
As ridiculous as the Zouma penalty decision was, having just watched Leicester highlights that game was even worse. How on earth did they decide both goals were offside? The Leicester player was nowhere near the keeper's line of sight in either situation.
Meanwhile over in Italy. I can't figure out the time stamp, but just skip to 2.30 on the vid. Hilarious decision maķing by the ref.
The Vestergaard one was the worst. He was being fouled, tried to jump for the ball but couldn't, obviously had to use his one free arm to try and get into the air and the ball hits it.
In general I think handballs are being given too much now, they're usually accidental and are just a consequence of people having arms.
In general I think handballs are being given too much now, they're usually accidental and are just a consequence of people having arms.
Has to be up there with the worst decisions ever seen. They've got video replays of the whole thing.
We're well into the realms of the only two explanations being that they are either getting decisions wrong on purpose to suit who they want to win the game, or getting decisions wrong on purpose to suit some other childish narrative that in reality should result in sackings. I think we were there two years ago though. Its just that for some reason everyone seems content to put up with it. You can obviously have subjective calls or close decisions that VAR is never going to take the controversy out of, but the problem is it's not those ones that are causing the controversy, its very obvious calls that they are getting wrong, ever single week. Sometimes every single game.
Often it happens when there is not even a decision to make in the first place. I mean our game was beyond any reasonable explanation with the two penalty calls, as there's nothing in the rules that allows the VAR ref to conclude neither is a foul. The Leicester game though they had a goal disallowed for offside where not only was it inexplicably wrong, but unless you WANTED to disallow the goal, there was no reason to even look at a potential offence in the first place. Earlier in the game they have a penalty awarded against them for one of their own players very clearly being fouled, because the ball hit his hand as he was being fouled. It woulld have been lliterally impossible to check the handball without noticing the foul, as one only happens due to the other. Even a highly incompetent referee would see this, which leaves the most plausible explanation being that the VAR ref did see it and just chose to get it wrong.
We get all this stuff about "they've never played the game"...I have never played professional football. I can tell an obvious foul from a handball when I am afforded a slow motion replay of it.
Often it happens when there is not even a decision to make in the first place. I mean our game was beyond any reasonable explanation with the two penalty calls, as there's nothing in the rules that allows the VAR ref to conclude neither is a foul. The Leicester game though they had a goal disallowed for offside where not only was it inexplicably wrong, but unless you WANTED to disallow the goal, there was no reason to even look at a potential offence in the first place. Earlier in the game they have a penalty awarded against them for one of their own players very clearly being fouled, because the ball hit his hand as he was being fouled. It woulld have been lliterally impossible to check the handball without noticing the foul, as one only happens due to the other. Even a highly incompetent referee would see this, which leaves the most plausible explanation being that the VAR ref did see it and just chose to get it wrong.
We get all this stuff about "they've never played the game"...I have never played professional football. I can tell an obvious foul from a handball when I am afforded a slow motion replay of it.
I agree. The Vestergaard handball was one of the daftest handball decisions I've seen.
Even the Shaw one was very harsh. They talk about natural positions, and given what Shaw was trying to do, his arms are in a natural position. Look at any freeze frame of a full back moving laterally to block a cross, it's the same position. You don't make that motion with arms tucked in, and you shouldn't be expected to. All this talk of the 'natural silhouette' is illogically applied. As you say, it's a consequence of having arms, rather than a deliberate attempt to handle the ball.
Just watched MOD2 and I can't believe on the bizarre ref decisions. 3 wrong in our game (AWB, Ronaldo x2) and 2 wrong in Brighton game. This has to be a new low surely especially with VAR there to help the ref.
The handball rule has been an absolute shambles for a few years now. Constantly moving goalposts. I think this predates VAR so it’s not all VAR’s fault but VAR definitely amplified how ridiculous the whole thing is.
At the end of the day, every rational football fan accepted that referees are human and mistakes will be made. So the error strewn days pre-VAR were infinitely less annoying than this brave new world where technology is supposed to get rid of human fallibility but turns out similarly flawed, only without any excuses or mitigating factors.