Remains of 215 indigenous children found at former residential school in Canada

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17,054
Strong parallels with the Catholic children's and women homes in Ireland.

What a disgusting criminal organization.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
If you think there is a huge difference now in some of the Provinces then it is wrong. In New Brunswick, the Premier refused to hold an inquiry for systemic racism in the justice system after the police killed two Indigenous people. The Minister was kicked out for supporting the inquiry. There is no one in the Legislative assembly who is non white. It is different on some other provinces I agree but Atlantic Canada is fairly racist.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
If you think there is a huge difference now in some of the Provinces then it is wrong. In New Brunswick, the Premier refused to hold an inquiry for systemic racism in the justice system after the police killed two Indigenous people. The Minister was kicked out for supporting the inquiry. There is no one in the Legislative assembly who is non white. It is different on some other provinces I agree but Atlantic Canada is fairly racist.
Certainly Indigenous people still have it rough across the country, on and off reserve. See also the current case of the woman that died in a Quebec hospital, and more generally the Viens report that was published over there just a year ago. (link)
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Certainly Indigenous people still have it rough across the country, on and off reserve. See also the current case of the woman that died in a Quebec hospital, and more generally the Viens report that was published over there just a year ago. (link)
I know that. They refused to involve anyone from The First Nation in the inquiry either after asking Quebec Police to investigate the killings. Of course they cleared the Police in New Brunswick.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
I know that. They refused to involve anyone from The First Nation in the inquiry either after asking Quebec Police to investigate the killings. Of course they cleared the Police in New Brunswick.
Yeah, we're still a long way off justice and equity for Indigenous Peoples in Canada!

(By which I don't mean to deny or ignore racism against other groups btw - I know you were making a wider point in your first post here.)
 

nimic

something nice
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
31,313
Location
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
This sounds similar to how the Sami were treated in Norway, well into the second half of the 20th century. Forced into schools where they were not allowed to speak their own language, victims of cultural genocide - and very vulnerable to abuse. And still many people consider it political correctness gone mad that the northernmost counties have signs with place-names in Norwegian and Sami (and sometimes Kven).

 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Yeah, we're still a long way off justice and equity for Indigenous Peoples in Canada!

(By which I don't mean to deny or ignore racism against other groups btw - I know you were making a wider point in your first post here.)
Yes thank you. In Calgary (where a lady of Jamaican descent born in Canada) was racially abused and spat on at a Dollarama store yesterday.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,856
This whole story is quite bizarre to me. Why are the graves unmarked? And were they not documented or something? Were these kids missing?
 

nimic

something nice
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
31,313
Location
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Looks like the Kamloops graves were just the tip of the iceberg. They are now reporting that 751 unmarked graves have been found at a former residential school in Saskatchewan, which was open from 1897 to 1997. If they find two of these sites in such quick succession, I fear for what else is out there.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...eval-indian-residential-school-news-1.6078375

Fecking hell.
The thread title should be updated, that's a shocking number.
 

RedTiger

Half mast
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
23,021
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
Looks like the Kamloops graves were just the tip of the iceberg. They are now reporting that 751 unmarked graves have been found at a former residential school in Saskatchewan, which was open from 1897 to 1997. If they find two of these sites in such quick succession, I fear for what else is out there.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...eval-indian-residential-school-news-1.6078375

Fecking hell.
That's a terrible number considering it's just 2 sites so far from many residential schools.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
This whole story is quite bizarre to me. Why are the graves unmarked? And were they not documented or something? Were these kids missing?
Because Indigenous people don't matter in Canada. These children were stolen from their families with the intent of civilizing them in the residential school system.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
This whole story is quite bizarre to me. Why are the graves unmarked? And were they not documented or something? Were these kids missing?
Because Indigenous people don't matter in Canada. These children were stolen from their families with the intent of civilizing them in the residential school system.
Yep, This was a government plan aimed at assimilating Indigenous children into 'white' Canadian culture - hence it's been called a cultural genocide in a recent report on the residential schools system. This was done through the creation of residential schools, which were often run by the Catholic church. Indigenous children were forcible removed from their parents and sent to those schools, which were generally located far from their homes. At the schools, harsh regimes were used to 'beat some sense into those natives'. (Not quoting anyone here, but I think it aptly summarizes the idea behind a lot of it.) When kids died, these two schools just buried them, and then often told their parents the kid had gone missing or ran off or something (if they would've said anything at all).

It was a deeply dehumanizing program and a huge stain on Canada - even before these burial sites had been found. Canada Day is coming up (July 1), and because of these finds, some cities have already cancelled the celebrations, as they feel this is not the time to celebrate Canada.

There is some information on the program here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-residential-schools-kamloops-faq-1.6051632. And in general, there are a lot of stories on residential school on CBC News right now.
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
32,856
Yep, This was a government plan aimed at assimilating Indigenous children into 'white' Canadian culture - hence it's been called a cultural genocide in a recent report on the residential schools system. This was done through the creation of residential schools, which were often run by the Catholic church. Indigenous children were forcible removed from their parents and sent to those schools, which were generally located far from their homes. At the schools, harsh regimes were used to 'beat some sense into those natives'. (Not quoting anyone here, but I think it aptly summarizes the idea behind a lot of it.) When kids died, these two schools just buried them, and then often told their parents the kid had gone missing or ran off or something (if they would've said anything at all).

It was a deeply dehumanizing program and a huge stain on Canada - even before these burial sites had been found. Canada Day is coming up (July 1), and because of these finds, some cities have already cancelled the celebrations, as they feel this is not the time to celebrate Canada.

There is some information on the program here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-residential-schools-kamloops-faq-1.6051632. And in general, there are a lot of stories on residential school on CBC News right now.
How did these kids die in these schools?
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
The Survivors Speak

By belittling Aboriginal culture, the schools drove a wedge between children and their parents. Mary Courchene recalled that in the 1940s at the Fort Alexander school in Manitoba, she was taught that my people were no good. This is what we were told every day: “You savage. Your ancestors are no good. What did they do when they, your, your, your people, your ancestors you know what they used to do? They used to go and they, they would worship trees and they would, they would worship the animals.”

She became so ashamed of being Aboriginal that when she went home one summer, she looked at my dad, I looked at my mom, I looked at my dad again. You know what? I hated them. I just absolutely hated my own parents. Not because I thought they abandon me; I hated their brown faces. I hated them because they were Indians; they were Indian. And here I was, you know coming from. So I, I looked at my dad and I challenged him and he, and I said, “From now on we speak only English in this house,” I said to my dad. And you know when we, when, in a traditional home where I was raised, the first thing that we all were always taught was to respect your elders and never to, you know, to challenge them. And here I was eleven years old, and I challenged. Her father’s eyes filled with tears. Then he looked at her mother and said, in Ojibway, “I guess we’ll never speak to this little girl again. Don’t know her."
Florence Horassi said that at the residential school she attended in the Northwest Territories, she was made to feel ashamed of being Aboriginal. When I was in residential school, then they told me I’m a dirty Indian, I’m a lousy Indian, I’m a starving Indian, and my mom and dad were drunkards, that I’m to pray for them, so when they died, they can go to heaven. They don’t even know my mom had died while I was in there, or do they know that she died when I was in there? I never saw my mom drink. I never saw my mom drunk. But they tell me that, to pray for them, so they don’t go to hell.
For administrative reasons, Indian Affairs and the school administrators assigned each residential school student a specific number. In many schools, these numbers were used on a daily basis instead of names. Many students found the experience degrading and dehumanizing.... At the Sandy Bay school, Stella Bone was number 66. “And everything that I had was marked with that number, eh. It may not affect others as much as it affected me, but being a number.”

Bernice Jacks felt that the practice at the Kamloops school denied her any personal identity. “I was called, ‘Hey, 39. Where’s 39? Yes, 39, come over here. Sit over here, 39.’ That was the way it was. And that’s...I say it just the way they said it. I was 39.... Antonette White, who went to the Kuper Island school, said that “even though you have family, you still feel separated, you still, you don’t have a name, you don’t have an identity, you just have a number, and mine was 56.
Alan Knockwood recalled being strapped for speaking his own language at Shubenacadie.Just for saying thank you to someone who gave me something in the school. I was caught by a brother or one of the workers, and I was strapped so severely that when we went to supper my cousin Ivan had to feed me because my hands were so swollen from the straps. And I remember sitting at the corner of the table and the guys got up and hid me, stood up and hid, so Ivan could feed me a few mouthfuls of food.
 

WI_Red

Redcafes Most Rested
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
12,099
Location
No longer in WI
Supports
Atlanta United
Sometimes current events makes one wonder if it might have been better if Charles Martel would have lost.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
The Anglican Church ran quite a few residential schools, too.
You're right, I'm focusing too much on the Catholics because they ran the Kamloops school and are in the news a lot now for not properly acknowledging and apologizing for their role in all this. In fact, just today, there was also this news about a pastor in Mississauga complaining that noone talks about the good done at residential schools:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...catholic-church-residential-schools-1.6077248

But they certainly weren't the only ones, and it's important to remember that it was a government program to being with.
Such a horrible tragedy... And then there's a guy in the Uyghurs thread talking about the benefits of the Chinese reeducation camps in Xinjiang. Will we never learn as a species.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
For those interested to learn more, here is an article from CBC that talks about the Saskatchewan school in particular:
CBC News said:
What the TRC report tells us about the Marieval Indian Residential School
751 unmarked graves were found at site of former residential school near Regina
Alexander Quon · CBC News · Posted: Jun 25, 2021 2:00 AM CT | Last Updated: 3 hours ago

The Marieval Indian Residential School operated on the windswept plains of Saskatchewan, about 140 kilometres east of Regina, for nearly a century. Although the building has been demolished, traces of the school still remain on what is now the Cowessess First Nation. The church, rectory and cemetery remain. That cemetery is where the Cowesses First Nation made preliminary findings of 751 unmarked graves reported this week. Although it is not clear if all of the unmarked graves belong to children, Cowessess First Nation Chief Cadmus Delorme said there were oral stories within Cowesses First Nation about both children and adults being buried there.

Details of the life and death of some of the Indigenous children forced to attend the Marieval Indian Residential School are found in the reports issued by Canada's Truth and Reconciliation Commissions (TRC), which can be found online. The TRC determined that 566 children died while at residential schools in Saskatchewan. It also made clear that those confirmed cases form only a "partial record." The actual death count is likely far higher.

Stripping cultural identity
The Marieval Indian Residential School operated from 1899 to 1997. Lessons at Marieval were taught in English and French, but even into the 1970s students who spoke fluent Cree would attempt to teach and share the language with their fellow students. Children taken to residential schools were often stripped of their traditional clothing as soon as they arrived. Long hair was usually cut. Children were forced to attend and live at the school as part of a structured plan that the TRC describes as "a far-reaching system by which the federal government sought to regulate Aboriginal life." Part of that structure saw children and parents separated to prevent a family bond and halt the creation of a shared cultural identity.

The practice of separation also meant that parents were rarely able to see the children that were taken from them. The exception was on Sundays, when parents were able to visit their children and take them home for a meal, according to the TRC. But in 1933, the newly appointed principal of Marieval, P. Chatelain, ended that practice. Children would only be permitted to visit their homes under special circumstances.

Eventually Marieval also began accepting what documents refer to as "day scholars," who were able to return home at the end of each day. Records for the number of day scholars at Marieval are often missing, but enrolment at the school peaked in 1962-63, with official records collected by the TRC indicating 148 residents and 89 day scholars forced to attend that year. In 1993-94 there 243 students at the school, although that figure may also include day students. Schools were often over capacity as officials tried to maximize a model that awarded funding on a per-capita basis.

The youngest survivor to provide the TRC with a statement about Marieval was required to go to the school from 1993 to 1997. Amber K.K. Pelletier wrote that when she was at the residential school, administrators and teachers still cut students' hair when they first arrived and assigned them numbers. When staff were upset, they would refer to the children by their numbers rather than their name, she said.

'Pawns in ongoing conflict'
Although the school drew its residents from First Nations in southeast Saskatchewan and southwestern Manitoba, children were often directed to schools at the whim of government officials rather than the desires of parents. The TRC outlines the story of Billie Whitehat, who in 1931 sought to have his 10-year-old son attend Marieval, as it was only eight kilometres from his home, instead of the school at Round Lake, located 24 kilometres away. His application was denied. The local Indian agent J.P.B. Ostrander said he did "not consider the difference in the distances is of any account when the schools are residential."

Administrators were often focused on the religious sect that operated each location, according to the TRC. Marieval was initially run under the direction of a variety of organizations through the Roman Catholic Church, while the school at Round Lake was run by the United Church. "The decision to send children to denominational schools had, in short, made parents pawns in the ongoing conflict between Christian denominations," the TRC report found.

Rigid discipline and memorization
Education at the schools seems to have originally focused on rote memorization, with an inspector's report dated to 1932 suggesting that teaching was "merely a question of memorizing and repeating a mass of, to the children, 'meaningless' facts." Classrooms were often overcrowded and there seemed to be nothing in the way of motivation or self-activity, according to the inspector. By 1956, things seemed to have changed, with another provincial inspector saying students in one class at Marieval were alert and interested.

Throughout it all, discipline was rigid. Conflict and confrontation "were never far from the surface" in residential schools, according to the TRC report. Staff were expected to physically dominate their students. Principals and government officials did not want to appear weak with their students. For instance, Ostrander denied the request for a student at Marieval to be transferred to another school in order to make sure that other students did not believe the official in charge of discipline was weak and could be pushed around, according to the TRC.

Meals at the school were found to be "nutritionally adequate," according to a Health and Welfare Canada inspector's report dated to 1973. But safety was found to be lacking at various times in Marieval's history. In 1979, some refrigerators lacked thermostats, while others were set at temperatures too high to keep food at a safe temperature.

Fire safety was also a repeated concern at Marieval. At least one fire at the school was suspected or proven to be deliberately set. In 1952, a fire inspection found that the fire escape door to the girls' and boys' dormitories were locked. Even if the door to the boys' dormitory had been unlocked, it was determined that it would have been impossible to open, as a portion of the latch was broken or missing. Despite promises to keep the door unlocked, then-principal J. Lemore said he did not believe in the fire escapes, especially during the winter. "As you know they were condemned and were supposed to be replaced long ago," he is recorded as saying.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,011
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
This is truly harrowing. Horrible horrible people who did this.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
My grandfather went to a residential school but never once spoke about it, which I assume means it was pretty bad.

I learned the other week that he did something (not sure what) to ensure that my mom, aunt and uncles did not. I like to think that it involved a subtle threat to the well being of the local Indian Agent. Whatever it was, I am glad for it.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
For those interested to learn more, here is an article from CBC that talks about the Saskatchewan school in particular:
The Survivours document I posted earlier goes into great detail about all of those topics. The frequency of beatings that were doled out for every little transgression is staggering. Made the rest of my day rather shitty reading all that.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
17,011
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
Just makes you think of all the things we don't even know about. These colonists were really evil.

Can't fathom what these poor kids went through.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
The Survivours document I posted earlier goes into great detail about all of those topics. The frequency of beatings that were doled out for every little transgression is staggering. Made the rest of my day rather shitty reading all that.
It's like every negative school cliché you've ever heard in overdrive - and then actually performed on a daily basis across the country. Unbelievable yet true.

Sorry to hear about your grandfather btw, but glad to hear he somehow managed to save others from the ordeal!
 
Last edited:

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
It's like every negative school cliché you've ever heard in overdrive - and then actually performed on a daily basis across the country. Unbelievable yet true.

Sorry to hear about your grandfather btw, but glad to hear he someone managed to save others from the ordeal!
Indeed. I saw the strap banged on a desk in the principal's office once in elementary school. I can't imagine what it would to do a child's hands.

Thanks. As terrible as all this is I prefer to take strength from it. For many years they tried to extinguish indigenous people here but there are still 1.5 million of us. They failed misearably and now a light is being shined on the horrors they put so many through. It's a tiny bit of justice.
 

Cheimoon

Made of cheese
Scout
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
14,334
Location
Canada
Supports
no-one in particular
Indeed. I saw the strap banged on a desk in the principal's office once in elementary school. I can't imagine what it would to do a child's hands.

Thanks. As terrible as all this is I prefer to take strength from it. For many years they tried to extinguish indigenous people here but there are still 1.5 million of us. They failed misearably and now a light is being shined on the horrors they put so many through. It's a tiny bit of justice.
If you don't me asking, how do you feel about the Truth and Reconciliation process, and everything that's happening in that context? Is it real progress? For me as an outsider, it seems like most of the talk is good these days - but then I read about all the people that are still on a boil water advisory with no clear path to improvement (which to me seems like something that's pretty easy to fix if the government just reserved the money for it), and I'm thinking it's still just words for the most part.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,463
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
If you don't me asking, how do you feel about the Truth and Reconciliation process, and everything that's happening in that context? Is it real progress? For me as an outsider, it seems like most of the talk is good these days - but then I read about all the people that are still on a boil water advisory with no clear path to improvement (which to me seems like something that's pretty easy to fix if the government just reserved the money for it), and I'm thinking it's still just words for the most part.
Yeah, it's just words for the most part. Even in that survivors document, they put all the positive stuff at the end, presumably to skew people's interpretation if they read it cover to cover.

There are good things happening now but most of that appears to have been driven by the George Floyd incident waking people up to the fact that institutional/systemic racism is still a thing.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Lots of cities have cancelled the Canada Day celebrations and the raising of the Canadian flag and the fireworks.
This was done after consultations with The Chiefs of the Indigenous Nations.
But a lot of people are having a go at the Mayors for cancelling it. From the information I have it was set to go ahead with a joint flags raising ceremony until the new 750 graves were found. Now it's off in most cities.
But still there is a lot of racism in Canada. The leader of the Conservative Party is having a go at the government saying Canada Day is a day to celebrate. Yes, normally it is but not this year after finding such terrible crimes.