Remains of 215 indigenous children found at former residential school in Canada

[VorZakone]

Is it ignorance that drove people to hurt these children or is it just pure hate ?

I think something in between. As if these kids were disposable.

 

[Cheimoon]

It makes you wonder how much more of this went on in other countries that we're not aware of yet. It can't just be Ireland and Canada.

Just this week, an investigation was announced in the US into the Native American boarding schools they had there. It's triggered by the finds in Kamloops.

Haaland announced on Tuesday that the DOI is launching an initiative to address the “intergenerational impact” of the federal government’s history of forcing Native American children into boarding schools in order to assimilate them into white American culture. “At no time in history have the records or documentation of this policy been compiled or analyzed to determine the full scope of its reaches and effects,” Haaland said. “We must uncover the truth about the loss of human life, and the lasting consequences of the schools.”

In 1819, Congress passed the Indian Civilization Act, which led to the establishment of boarding schools across the nation where Native American youth were sent and stripped of their culture. Children were typically prohibited from speaking their native language or communicating with their families, and were given clothes and haircuts common in white America. They were also routinely abused, and those who died were buried in unmarked graves. In announcing the initiative on Tuesday, Haaland noted that by by 1926 more than 80 percent of Native American children had been taken from their families and sent to these boarding schools, which were managed by the federal government or religious organizations.The boarding school program lasted into the 1960s.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...-american-boarding-school-initiative-1188316/

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

I think something in between. As if these kids were disposable.

So sad. I can just imagine the terror these little ones had to suffer through. It's a horrible thing to fathom but death may have been a welcomed peace for them.

 

[Cheimoon]

Is it ignorance that drove people to hurt these children or is it just pure hate ?

A sense of cultural superiority, I think. The idea that sense has to be brought into these 'natives', and that it doesn't matter to beat 'those people', who might anyway understand force better than reason. Something like that, I think.

 

[Withnail]

Is it ignorance that drove people to hurt these children or is it just pure hate ?

In Ireland the children were born outside of marriage so were seen as 'less than' and somehow tainted by the circumstances of their conception.

This seems to be based on race but it's similar in that they had a reason to de-humanise the poor kids.

 

[Cheimoon]

Lots of cities have cancelled the Canada Day celebrations and the raising of the Canadian flag and the fireworks.
This was done after consultations with The Chiefs of the Indigenous Nations.
But a lot of people are having a go at the Mayors for cancelling it. From the information I have it was set to go ahead with a joint flags raising ceremony until the new 750 graves were found. Now it's off in most cities.
But still there is a lot of racism in Canada. The leader of the Conservative Party is having a go at the government saying Canada Day is a day to celebrate. Yes, normally it is but not this year after finding such terrible crimes.

The Canadian Museum of History has now also cancelled its Canada Day activities (link), and Trudeau has called for reflection instead of fireworks (link).

The Cons are speaking to their right-wing base here, but it's a ridiculous stance. I hope they get punished for it if there is a fall election (in the sense that they'd lose votes outside the Prairies), but I'm afraid too few people care about this to affect elections outcomes.

 

[Foxbatt]

Cheimoon, There is going to be an election for sure. The Cons are a disgrace. It's one thing to have a go at Trudeau but another to slate cities and mayors for cancelling the Canada Day celebrations in the current environment.
There is a lot of racism in Canada. There are lots of Canadians who have never even gone out of their province. All they do is watch YouTube and conspiracy theories and decide they know everything.

 

[Cheimoon]

Another find in BC:

A First Nation in B.C.'s South Interior says 182 unmarked grave sites have been discovered near the location of a former residential school.

The community of ʔaq'am, one of four bands in the Ktunaxa Nation and located near the city of Cranbrook, B.C., used ground-penetrating radar to search a site close to the former St. Eugene's Mission School, the Lower Kootenay Band announced Wednesday.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-remains-residential-school-interior-1.6085990

There were 139 residential schools in total, plus similar schools that operated without federal support, so even all this is probably only the beginning...

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Another find in BC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-remains-residential-school-interior-1.6085990

There were 139 residential schools in total, plus similar schools that operated without federal support, so even all this is probably only the beginning...

At this rate it's going to blow a gigantic hole in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's suggestion that only 3,213 children died over 140 years. We're probably looking at close to 30k dead kids.

https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAA-Hamilton-cemetery-FInal.pdf

 

[Cheimoon]

At this rate it's going to blow a gigantic hole in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's suggestion that only 3,213 children died over 140 years. We're probably looking at close to 30k dead kids.

https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAA-Hamilton-cemetery-FInal.pdf

Damn. Happy Canada Day everyone, let's party.

Maybe next year.

 

[berbatrick]

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[Cheimoon]

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It's not even the worst bit. How about this:

Whatever good was present at the Ossossané ossuary—where those who had not yet encountered the fullness of Truth honored their dead as best they knew how—is increased a thousandfold in the cemeteries of the residential schools, where baptized Christians were given Christian burials. Whatever natural good was present in the piety and community of the pagan past is an infinitesimal fraction of the grace rendered unto those pagans’ descendants who have been received into the Church of Christ. Whatever sacrifices were exacted in pursuit of that grace—the suffocation of a noble pagan culture; an increase in disease and bodily death due to government negligence; even the sundering of natural families—is worth it.

Ah, those lucky tykes! (I had to look that word up, and it didn't help the author.)

Today Twitter makes me happy though. Every single response I saw to the tweet you quoted or their response expressed disgust and incredulity at the existence of this piece of shit.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It's not surprising to me that people of that ilk would come out with such tripe so my outrage is pretty much non-existant, which will hopefully disappoint them immensely.

Two points I will make; if the deaths were so innocuous, why did the Catholic Church remove the markers?

The discovery of these sites is making people who might not normally support us do exactly that. We've survived so we've already won but this makes that triumph all the more sweet.

 

[Beans]

Is it ignorance that drove people to hurt these children or is it just pure hate ?

My mind goes to The Stanford Prison Experiment. Give people a system that promotes and rewards abuse and you’ll get it from most people. But if they’re in a fair and kind world, they can do that as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

 

[Foxbatt]

Another number of graves found in a site for indigenous school children.

 

[Cheimoon]

Another number of graves found in a site for indigenous school children.

Here's a full news story:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/penelakut-kuper-residential-school-1.6100201

That's pretty vague though. 160+ unmarked and undocumented graves found, but the article says it isn't sure yet whether they are children's graves. But I guess the implication is clear, given they were found to a residential school on BC's Gulf Islands. Do you have any further updates?

Amazing how this already isn't big news on CBC anymore btw - although maybe that has to do with the vague nature of the announcement.

 

[Foxbatt]

Cheimoon, I don't know why CBC is ignoring it but there is an interview of a survivor from that island school. He said that they always knew that there were bodies of children buried there. He said that it was so lonely that many tried to escape and died.
I guess any bodies in that number is bound to be people who died there. That's only children mostly.

 

[Cheimoon]

Cheimoon, I don't know why CBC is ignoring it but there is an interview of a survivor from that island school. He said that they always knew that there were bodies of children buried there. He said that it was so lonely that many tried to escape and died.
I guess any bodies in that number is bound to be people who died there. That's only children mostly.

Well, they're not completely ignoring it, but currently the Kelowna tower crane collapse is their top story. I know a couple of died there and it's not trivial, but compared to the burial site news...

 

[Cheimoon]

If anyone is interested in how this worked in the US, where they had a very similar system ran through what they call native boarding schools; there's an article on that on CBC now:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-states-canada-residential-schools-1.6114085

 

[WI_Red]

If anyone is interested in how this worked in the US, where they had a very similar system ran through what they call native boarding schools; there's an article on that on CBC now:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-states-canada-residential-schools-1.6114085

Read this last week. Powerful story and in it her family discusses impact of these schools

Rosalie Fish Wants to Be the Face of Change - The Ringer

She thought about how she tried so hard to give Fish a better life, having gotten pregnant with her at 18. “I tried to make things better,” McCloud says of her family’s relations. “I tried to be the peacekeeper.” And there she and her daughter were, all these years later, trying to understand how patterns repeated themselves. Patterns McCloud now realizes stem in part from the boarding schools that previous Native generations, including her own family, were forced into.

Thousands of Indigenous children in the U.S. and Canada were sent to these boarding schools in the 19th and 20th centuries to erase their traditions, languages, and cultures. Abuse of all kinds was rampant in the schools. Large numbers of children did not return, according to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada; more than 4,100 were confirmed to have died at the schools. The commission, established in 2008, called the practice cultural genocide. In May, the remains of 215 children’s bodies were found buried at a former Canadian school.

Fish says her great-great-grandparents suffered physical, sexual, and psychological abuse in the boarding schools—trauma that would become braided into the fabric of her family for decades to come. “We are lucky to even be in existence,” McCloud says.

 

[Cheimoon]

Read this last week. Powerful story and in it her family discusses impact of these schools

Rosalie Fish Wants to Be the Face of Change - The Ringer

What a story. Try telling her that sports and politics don't mix! (Well, as the article says, people did try. Feck 'm.)

 

[Foxbatt]

It can't get any worse can it? Now a Manitoba priest has said that they are all lying just to get more money. There was no abuse. And if he sees anyone doing any graffiti on the church he is going to get a shot gun and shoot them.
He has rightly been barred from preaching.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

It can't get any worse can it? Now a Manitoba priest has said that they are all lying just to get more money. There was no abuse. And if he sees anyone doing any graffiti on the church he is going to get a shot gun and shoot them.
He has rightly been barred from preaching.

My disgust as a Status Indian notwithstanding, as someone who has a firearms licence and would be getting questioned by the police and possibly losing my guns and licence for making that kind of comment, he should be feeling some offical heat for that.

Also in that situation, the burden of proof would be on me to show I did not intend to follow through on that threat and I fully expect he gets the same treatment by the courts.

But I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Cheimoon]

My disgust as a Status Indian notwithstanding, as someone who has a firearms licence and would be getting questioned by the police and possibly losing my guns and licence for making that kind of comment, he should be feeling some offical heat for that.

Also in that situation, the burden of proof would be on me to show I did not intend to follow through on that threat and I fully expect he gets the same treatment by the courts.

But I won't be holding my breath.

Freedom of religion...? (No, not serious.)

While we're on the subject of the Catholic Church trying its best to look a little worse every day: there was also a story on CBC today on how they have tried to pay as little as possible of the compensation payment they agreed to, trying to bill whatever they can to lower the sum etc. - while building new churches and spending on many other things without a care. They really stand out among all the groups that have been involved in any of this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...-survivors-catholic-church-millions-1.6121678

 

[Foxbatt]

Freedom of religion...? (No, not serious.)

While we're on the subject of the Catholic Church trying its best to look a little worse every day: there was also a story on CBC today on how they have tried to pay as little as possible of the compensation payment they agreed to, trying to bill whatever they can to lower the sum etc. - while building new churches and spending on many other things without a care. They really stand out among all the grous that have been involved in any of this.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...-survivors-catholic-church-millions-1.6121678

And to make matters worse that Judge refused to let them have the documents. This is disgusting. That Judge should be disbarred.

 

[Cheimoon]

Also so people don't forget about this - another find was reported today:

A geophysical survey of a small segment of the land surrounding a former residential school in B.C.'s Central Interior has identified 93 sites that "display characteristics indicative of potential human burials," representatives of the Williams Lake First Nation announced on Tuesday.

Full story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/williams-lake-findings-1.6326467

 

[calodo2003]

It’s like the Florida boy’s school story. They just threw away the bodies like trash.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_School_for_Boys

 

[Rhyme Animal]

So fecking sad, makes me seething.

 

[Cheimoon]

Still a bit early in reporting, but it looks there has been another big find:

169 potential graves found at site of former residential school in northern Alberta

A northern Alberta First Nation says 169 potential graves have been found using ground-penetrating radar at the site of a former residential school. Kapawe'no First Nation, about 370 kilometres northwest of Edmonton, says a specialized drone was also used to find evidence of graves at the former Grouard Mission site.

From CBC: 169 potential graves found at site of former residential school in northern Alberta | CBC News

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

They will, unfortunately, continue.

 

[Cheimoon]

Yeah, I don't doubt it. Many, many schools remain that have not yet started or completed this work, plus I assume all preliminary results of scans will be painstakingly verified to find out what has been found and provide every individual with the dignified burial they deserve. But as happens with any news, most people will get used to these reports coming out with some frequency, and their impact will fade to being background noise for them (as is happening with this Alberta find pretty much already).

I do want to keep reporting these finds here to help stop that from happening. (Which is only a tiny contribution, I know.)

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Thanks for that.

 

[WI_Red]

Thanks for that Frank.

At this point the Catholic Church should just apologize for existing as it seems pretty much every world atrocity has their fingerprints on it.

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Edit: And I say this as someone who grew up Catholic and is still trying to figure out how to be Catholic without being party to the Church itself. Still working on that.

 

[Cheimoon]

Thanks for that Frank.

At this point the Catholic Church should just apologize for existing as it seems pretty much every world atrocity has their fingerprints on it.

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Edit: And I say this as someone who grew up Catholic and is still trying to figure out how to be Catholic without being party to the Church itself. Still working on that.

Does that count as a formal apology? Either way, time to transfer over some of those huge Vatican cash reserves as well, and start paying (alongside Canadian governments of course) for everything Indigenous communities are doing to try and get some closure with their past, and fix their present.

 

[WI_Red]

Does that count as a formal apology? Either way, time to transfer over some of those huge Vatican cash reserves as well, and start paying (alongside Canadian governments of course) for everything Indigenous communities are doing to try and get some closure with their past, and fix their present.

No way any amount of money is going to flow out of the Vatican. One of my biggest issues with the Church has always been the obscene wealth on display (not to mention what's hidden) in Vatican City. The amount of good that money could do in the world is likely incalculable. Hell, they could at least support poor parishes instead of pushing for poor churchgoers to decide between tithing and eating. The faith and many of its followers are not the problem, it is the rotten to the core Church and it's hierarchy that are.

 

[Cheimoon]

No way any amount of money is going to flow out of the Vatican. One of my biggest issues with the Church has always been the obscene wealth on display (not to mention what's hidden) in Vatican City. The amount of good that money could do in the world is likely incalculable. Hell, they could at least support poor parishes instead of pushing for poor churchgoers to decide between tithing and eating. The faith and many of its followers are not the problem, it is the rotten to the core Church and it's hierarchy that are.

Sounds like you would have liked Luther back in the day. Maybe you should consider yourself a non-denominational Christian. Living in the spirit of the Bible (New Testament predominantly I suppose) doesn't require joining a club, does it?

Anyway, I agree, they're not going to pay. Those apologies are pretty hollow without a real follow-up; but since even getting a formal apology has been a huge issue, I'm not holding my breath for anything else. (Was this a formal apology now? I read the text just now (link), and he says 'I am very sorry'. Is that it, or a clever way to avoid real organizational accountability?)

Oh, fun fact (that was probably mentioned before): the Catholic Church in Canada, among other organizations, committed to contributing to a fund for reparation payments to Indigenous Peoples. Except they found ways to wriggle themselves out of paying large parts of the sum they had promised. There's a bit about it here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/church-residential-school-compensation-1.6082935

 

[Cheimoon]

In other Canadian news, the search for these child graves continues at former residential schools across Canada, and new finds continue to be made with some frequency. Just this week, the Stó:lō Nation located a site with at least 158 unmarked graves:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...s-missing-children-unmarked-burials-1.6974053

I don't really have anything else to add to everything that has already been said in the thread, I just thought I should mention it here to help keep bringing attention to the subject.

 

[4bars]

In other Canadian news, the search for these child graves continues at former residential schools across Canada, and new finds continue to be made with some frequency. Just this week, the Stó:lō Nation located a site with at least 158 unmarked graves:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/stó-lō-nation-residential-schools-missing-children-unmarked-burials-1.6974053

I don't really have anything else to add to everything that has already been said in the thread, I just thought I should mention it here to help keep bringing attention to the subject.

About +4000 in canad so far I believe

And this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-unmarked-gravesite-tkemlups-report-1.6879980

Is disgusting. How a person can decide: " I am gonna actively trying to disprove that kidnapped first nations kids died/were killed in christian residential schools"

Scum

 

[Cheimoon]

About +4000 in canad so far I believe

And this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-unmarked-gravesite-tkemlups-report-1.6879980

Is disgusting. How a person can decide: " I am gonna actively trying to disprove that kidnapped first nations kids died/were killed in christian residential schools"

Scum

What's wrong with those people. What do they even get out of denying any of this? It's insane stuff.

But then you can say that about so much around conspiracy theories and racism and all the other idiocy in the world...

 

[4bars]

What's wrong with those people. What do they even get out of denying any of this? It's insane stuff.

But then you can say that about so much around conspiracy theories and racism and all the other idiocy in the world...

Oh I get that this are englobed to this insane type of people. And I get thinking and doubting everything. But actively going for it...

You are an active member of the flat earther community I'll consider you a moron and frankly, harmless
You are an active member of disproving that first nations were mistreated to the point that they died because the poor conditions or killed is being a disgusting human being, basically because there are living first nations adults that they lived it not that many decades ago and survived these conditions. There is prove and witnesses. You hurt people if you are part of this lunatic conspiracy