Reminder: Jose managed to turn Chelsea fans against Hazard

Bilbo

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None of us know what is going on behind the scenes - maybe Pogba is a bad influence in the dressing room. Who knows.....

Going on what we get to see though, its very easy to conclude that he is being made a scapegoat. Has he been our best player? Arguable. Has he been our worst? Definitely not.
 

Janson

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People being accused of being racist if they dare to be negative about Pogba is absolutely mad. What the hell is happening to this place?
I've stayed of the caf for a while because of how crazy it has gotten. Now that I'm back, it's even worse.
 

Janson

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On these very boards pogba had the highest average rating in the team before the southampton game. He was our top performer even when we were complete crap he would be the only player to come out with any actual credit and in our best performances he was the best player.

Honestly very short memory. How can you say Smalling has been our best performer when our defence has been a complete no show and he personally as been responsible for some very poor errors. Linderlof has been better than smalling mostly.

It's not a high bar in terms of performance to say pogba has been our best player but for sure there is no arguing he has at least been in our top 3 performers in 90% of matches so I don't see how people can constently berate him and say hes inconsistent. Our whole team is inconsistent why would you expect 1 player to play brilliant every week. No player plays consistently great every week when in a struggling team so why would you expect pogba to.
You are going of caf rating for who's been our best player?
 

Kapardin

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It was disgusting seeing them acting like rabid attack dogs and trying to assassinate his character over the summer just because Jose was criticizing him over his decision to leave the meaningless preseason tour for the birth if his son. The vitriol was something else

Now a few months later,we've got another situation where Jose is at odds with a star player and many are lapping it up and using the chance to once again spew more venom and assassinate another players character. Rinse and repeat

We have many issues at the club at the moment but Paul fecking Pogba isn't near the top of list yet he's become the default scapegoat du jour so we now have to hear delusions about how we'd somehow be better off with less quality/talent in the squad :rolleyes:

Managerchester United indeed,at no other elite club is the managers word and position treated as holy and sacred. The managers are just another employee with then,not bigger than the club as they seem to be with us
Watch out, Top Reds will say you have to watch a game live to grow a brain to say such things.

Funnily enough, I don't get what Pogba has done? Inconsistent performances? Sure, like 90% of our squad...Why single him out when he's the best of a bad bunch? Or, did he disrespect the club? Nope, he said the tradition of the club is to attack and that the manager's tactics weren't aligned with that.

If anything, that statement shows more respect to the club than Jose going about raising 3 fingers, blabbering about football heritage, how top 4 will be a miracle etc.

Think this animosity towards Pogba was prompted by Jose's match day program where he appeared to hint that some players weren't giving their all for the club.

Exactly, the match going fans don’t provide a true reflection of the general feeling amongst the majority of our fanbase
They don't. They are free to do as they please, just as we are free to air our opinions. I'd wager a global poll on Jose would fare similar to the one on this website in the Mourinho sack watch thread.
 

RedDevil@84

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Yes, but Pogba has been s**t talking to the media for months now and just like his game, he blows hot and cold in the media. Sometimes saying things as if there is a problem and sometimes acting as if the club is his favorite place to be. And he is not good as Hazard.

Having said that, people booing Pogba should be ashamed. If they make Pogba the benchmark to boo, then they should probably boo almost the entire team. People like Matic and Lukaku should only be able to hear boos all the time.

Anyways, I am not a fan of booing at our manager or player.
 

JPRouve

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Yes, but Pogba has been s**t talking to the media for months now and just like his game, he blows hot and cold in the media. Sometimes saying things as if there is a problem and sometimes acting as if the club is his favorite place to be. And he is not good as Hazard.

Having said that, people booing Pogba should be ashamed. If they make Pogba the benchmark to boo, then they should probably boo almost the entire team. People like Matic and Lukaku should only be able to hear boos all the time.

Anyways, I am not a fan of booing at our manager or player.
What has Pogba said exactly?
 

RedDevil@84

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What has Pogba said exactly?
Like the time when he told the media "We should be doing attack attack attack, but I am not the manager, so I cannot say that" and then in next week followed it by telling media that he has been told to not talk to the media. I am not saying he is insulting the club, but he tried to give tidbits to media, every now and then. Totally unnecessary when the team has issues.
 

Jeppers7

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Yeah I'm still trying to work out how those that booed Fellaini were wankers but the posters who complained about Pogba getting booed are 'obnoxious prats' and have no right to criticise as match going fans do more to support the club than he does. Seems like he makes it up as he goes along.
He just dislikes Pogba, makes him irrational.....that's fine though as long as you're honest about it. There's things I'd accept Pogba doing, like if he tripped over the ball, that if Lukaku or Fellaini did them I'd probably go mad....but to me they are just very very average players so I'm less likely to accept mistakes because their highest level doesn't cover for it.

What I dislike is people, who because they dislike someone, they try to play down good performances and come out of the woodwork after bad performances trying to distort the reality.

I'm yet to have anyone answer the question of who has been consistently good for us this season ? This guy claims Smalling ffs ! Really...he's been better than Pogba ? Can't think of a good game he's had, so you know he's reaching there.
 

Fracture90

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Like the time when he told the media "We should be doing attack attack attack, but I am not the manager, so I cannot say that" and then in next week followed it by telling media that he has been told to not talk to the media. I am not saying he is insulting the club, but he tried to give tidbits to media, every now and then. Totally unnecessary when the team has issues.
In all honesty you should be proud that our Manager's star signing wants us to stay true to our tradition and attack more, right?
 

RedDevil@84

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In all honesty you should be proud that our Manager's star signing wants us to stay true to our tradition and attack more, right?
I am more than happy that our star player wants to play attacking football, but at the same time I don't want him to follow it up with "But I am not the manager". Those words were clearly intended to call out the manager in front of media. That is naughty.
I would rather have him call up Woodward and tell him Jose is a crap manager and he doesn't want to play his crap football and leave it at that.
 

JPRouve

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Like the time when he told the media "We should be doing attack attack attack, but I am not the manager, so I cannot say that" and then in next week followed it by telling media that he has been told to not talk to the media. I am not saying he is insulting the club, but he tried to give tidbits to media, every now and then. Totally unnecessary when the team has issues.
Honestly I don't get it, the attack comments have been used several times in the last days and it makes little sense because people are at the same time asking players to show character, to push on the field and make the efforts that will make the match going fans rise, "playing it like United".
Now, when Pogba is asked a question and answers that we should attack at home that it makes things easier for the team, that we should press with more intensity, people use it against him and call him toxic. You can't have it both ways, you either want players with character who shows it without disrespecting the club and their teammates. Or frankly we shut up and don't ever talk about character and ambition.
 

Fracture90

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I am more than happy that our star player wants to play attacking football, but at the same time I don't want him to follow it up with "But I am not the manager". Those words were clearly intended to call out the manager in front of media. That is naughty.
I would rather have him call up Woodward and tell him Jose is a crap manager and he doesn't want to play his crap football and leave it at that.
I do agree that he shouldn't have said that "I'm not the manager part" but I understand his frustration. We're going batshiit crazy just by having to watch that utter dogshiit we've being served under Mourinho, now imagine how is it on Pogba who's having to play that kind of football day in day out. Not to mention the abuse he's getting on social media and pretty much everywhere just because was bought for 105 million.
 

mancan92

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You are going of caf rating for who's been our best player?
I'm using it as a ligetimate sample size of data from a base who watch our team week in week out. What other barometer would I use?

Ok instead let me use one of the defacto statistic websites for football

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32/Show/England-Manchester-United

Who sits at number 1 for the highest rates based on traceable data ?

It's actually silly how knee-jerk you guys are. The guy has been our best player. Statistically and visually.
 
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What you talking about he signed him and played him every week!! Ssshhhhh:wenger:

I use to think we had one of the most intelligent fans in the world. How I was wrong. SAF masked over the fans too.
Why on earth would you think we have intelligent fans!? Most people are stupid, ergo most football fans are stupid - and given our fan base, we have more stupid fans than any other club in the world!
 

RedDevil@84

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Honestly I don't get it, the attack comments have been used several times in the last days and it makes little sense because people are at the same time asking players to show character, to push on the field and make the efforts that will make the match going fans rise, "playing it like United".
Now, when Pogba is asked a question and answers that we should attack at home that it makes things easier for the team, that we should press with more intensity, people use it against him and call him toxic. You can't have it both ways, you either want players with character who shows it without disrespecting the club and their teammates. Or frankly we shut up and don't ever talk about character and ambition.
As I mentioned in the next post, I don't mind him wanting to attack, but if he has a problem with the manager's tactics, I don't expect him (or any other player) to go out to media and give them things to write. Doesn't necessarily make him toxic, but it is unnecessary.
Anyways, my miff with Pogba is more about his general play rather than his other stuff, and him blowing hot and cold in matches. You never know which Pogba will turn up. Maybe much of it is because of Jose's tactics, we will only know when we get another manager. I hope people are right about it.
 

Jeppers7

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As I mentioned in the next post, I don't mind him wanting to attack, but if he has a problem with the manager's tactics, I don't expect him (or any other player) to go out to media and give them things to write. Doesn't necessarily make him toxic, but it is unnecessary.
Anyways, my miff with Pogba is more about his general play rather than his other stuff, and him blowing hot and cold in matches. You never know which Pogba will turn up. Maybe much of it is because of Jose's tactics, we will only know when we get another manager. I hope people are right about it.
With which of our players exactly do you know, which ..... will turn up ? Matic ? Pretty much guaranteed to get a shite performance there...Lukaku ? Yeah I get that. You know what you're getting with those two.

Anyone else ?
 

JPRouve

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As I mentioned in the next post, I don't mind him wanting to attack, but if he has a problem with the manager's tactics, I don't expect him (or any other player) to go out to media and give them things to write. Doesn't necessarily make him toxic, but it is unnecessary.
Anyways, my miff with Pogba is more about his general play rather than his other stuff, and him blowing hot and cold in matches. You never know which Pogba will turn up. Maybe much of it is because of Jose's tactics, we will only know when we get another manager. I hope people are right about it.
I see where you are coming from but in that case you realize that you shouldn't use it in this argument because the way you wrote it and within the context of this thread it reads like a justification to turn against a player that is deemed toxic. When in reality you agree with his position but have reservations regarding the way he conveyed his thought. Also we all know that if it was leaked that he talked to Woodward about Mourinho's tactics the usual suspects would have lambasted him and went with the same conclusion. The players lose in every scenario, if they say nothing they are deemed lazy, if they say something publicly they are toxic and if they talk to the CEO they are toxic and rats.

Pogba is frustrating on the pitch because he is inconsistant tactically and technically, now that inconsistency is similar to Di Maria's in the sense that they still regularly make the difference and they do it at a very high rate. We are all frustrated by that but Pogba has shown no sign of toxicity, he isn't noticeably lazy, he hasn't said or shown that he wanted to leave, he hasn't disrespected the fans or the club.
 

RedDevil@84

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With which of our players exactly do you know, which ..... will turn up ? Matic ? Pretty much guaranteed to get a shite performance there...Lukaku ? Yeah I get that. You know what you're getting with those two.

Anyone else ?
Firstly, we are talking Pogba here and hence my comment.
Secondly, my expectations from Pogba (who was supposed to be an elite midfielder when we got him) is way high than the likes of Matic, Lukaku or Fellaini. I expect Pogba to be a game changer and a huge influence whenever he plays.
 

Mainoldo

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Firstly, we are talking Pogba here and hence my comment.
Secondly, my expectations from Pogba (who was supposed to be an elite midfielder when we got him) is way high than the likes of Matic, Lukaku or Fellaini. I expect Pogba to be a game changer and a huge influence whenever he plays.
Would Messi be a game changer in this team?
 

fezzerUTD

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Pogba has wanted to leave a while.

Hazard was world class before and after Jose, was Pogba? Ever world class? not for me.
 

Jeppers7

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Firstly, we are talking Pogba here and hence my comment.
Secondly, my expectations from Pogba (who was supposed to be an elite midfielder when we got him) is way high than the likes of Matic, Lukaku or Fellaini. I expect Pogba to be a game changer and a huge influence whenever he plays.
So you don't expect any of our other players to perform better than they are doing on a regular basis ? Just Pogba ?

Lukaku cost £80 million, Matic cost £40 million at 29 years of age....both fees comparable in context.

Context is the thing that bothers me with posters like you, you try to remove all context to suit your agenda. Pogba in a team that isn't performing, playing with players who aren't performing, with tactics that don't allow for possession or to press and win the ball back, against teams who all have better tactics and are performing better than us......should be dominating games, taking games by the scruff of the neck, scoring, assisting, tackling, defending, tracking runners, getting in the box, playing it simple consistently......but none of our other players should ? Like if we played better as a team and had tactics that allowed for that, he wouldn't be consistently better ?


Yeah.....he's the problem :houllier:
 

Santoryo

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He just dislikes Pogba, makes him irrational.....that's fine though as long as you're honest about it. There's things I'd accept Pogba doing, like if he tripped over the ball, that if Lukaku or Fellaini did them I'd probably go mad....but to me they are just very very average players so I'm less likely to accept mistakes because their highest level doesn't cover for it.

What I dislike is people, who because they dislike someone, they try to play down good performances and come out of the woodwork after bad performances trying to distort the reality.

I'm yet to have anyone answer the question of who has been consistently good for us this season ? This guy claims Smalling ffs ! Really...he's been better than Pogba ? Can't think of a good game he's had, so you know he's reaching there.
Spot on.

I mean when you see someone bring up Smalling as our most consistent and best player this season then you know said person is reaching and being completely disingenuous.

Where does that come from?
He's probably hearing voices and that's where he got his info.
 

Janson

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Because, for all his sins, Fellaini always gives 100%. I have far more sympathy for fans booing somebody who doesn’t try than somebody who just isn’t good enough. Fellaini was getting booed for an honest mistake (conceding a penalty) and that’s a shitty thing to do IMO.
Yeah, I was defending Fellaini too at the time. This is a different situation with Pogba.
 

Raven

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The difference was that no player was bigger than the club, or what Fergie really meant "No player was bigger than me" - He was the boss. Now we have multiple players bigger than Jose, half the fans are siding with Pogba. If De Gea turned round and said Mourinho has to leave or I leave 90% of fans would be screaming for Jose to go and it would happen.
Yes. Because De Gea is more important to our club than Mourinho, whereas Ferguson proved his decision making over and over again.
 

The Purley King

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Think this animosity towards Pogba was prompted by Jose's match day program where he appeared to hint that some players weren't giving their all for the club.
Yep - and it was lapped up and resulted in the booing.
The obvious answer is staring everyone in the face - its JOSE they aren't giving their all for.
No doubt we've all had shit bosses at some point in life, motivation to do your job well drops (why am I trying my best for this prick?) and you dial it in from time to time. Its certainly happened to me before and it didn't mean I didn't like the company I worked for, just that I thought my boss was a twat.
Solution = get a different boss.
 

marktan

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And he sold KDB for not being aggressive or intense enough at Chelsea - the exact same things he's saying about Pogba now.