You underrate Wijnaldum in that case. He's nowhere near that level at the moment.
Renato Sanches
- Thread starter Desert Eagle
- Start date
I don't expect him to be at Wijnaldum's level from day 1. With Fabinho, Hendo and Thiago, he hopefully wouldn't have to be either. I think we're very well placed today take on a midfielder coming into his own with something to offer, but whose best years are still a year or two away.
Gini wasn't at that level when he signed for us either.
I think what he does would suit our midfield into the ground though.
Would hate for him to go to Liverpool though tbf I thought the same about Keita and Thiago with mixed results. Klopp coaching and motivating him is something I could do without.
I’d love for him to go to Liverpool.
If we're not getting Grealish then we should go all out for him.
Why do you even think we will get Grealish?
Haven’t you heard we are talking to some bloke called Sancho
Why would we not want Grealish and Sancho, have you seen the number of creative players at City?
Because, contrary to City, we don't have unlimited funds.
Don’t get FPL confused with reality.
Sell Pogba + Martial + Lingard
Sign Grealish?
It’s not that hard to think about.
We could probably sign a midfielder too but with Grealish and Sancho I’d forgo that if necessary.
See above.
What about Keita? Better than Pogba don't forget
I am looking above and those animals with curly tails are flying
Hope you get fleeced and he starts passing to advertising boards again.
Keita is basically hypothetical at this point. Never fit to play for more than a week here and there during a season.
Still only 23 which is crazy. Looks to be getting better and better I’ve really enjoyed watching him at the Euro’s.
Erratic and can have one of those days in which nothing comes off. but ... still a really enjoyable player - very strong as well surprisingly.
I hope we're looking at him.
I hope we're looking at him.
He's looked good this euros...pleased that he seems to be getting things back on track. Just emphasises just how damaging moving too early/to the wrong club can be to a young player's career.
For him that loan to Swansea was especially damaging. If he would have stayed in Munich he would have had Heynckes as a coach who loves to use his Portuguese after coaching Benfica some years earlier. He gives players a good feeling - look how well James performed under him. He would have been the ideal coach for him at that time. He came back again for a season when Kovac was the coach - who for sure was not the best coach for him either.
One could see the massive improvement as a player in his last preseason at Bayern.
Without wanting to equate preseason to proper games, his performances showed immense quality, maturity, drive, confidence and completeness. Passing, dribbling, press resistance, engine.
The bad decision making, instability, erraticness and brainfart moments were almost (not completely, and still probably aren't) gone. He played in every game, too, and then when the competitive games started Kovac didn't give him any minutes whatsoever.
It's ironic that at the very moment he was sold (and it was right to sell him at that moment, no doubt about that), he was starting to show what a player he could become.
Especially with Thiago leaving a year later, it's really a story of bad timing all around.
But his current level does not come as a surprise for those who looked closely, through the mist of derision and anti-hype that followed his Swansea stint.
Outside of the pre-season you mention, did you ever think he could make an impression at Bayern during his time there? Would you have him back now, and if so, what would be your expectations?
He never got a real chance, it's tough at a club like Bayern. When he came he was, what?, 18 years old, he got a couple of sub appearances here and there and maybe a start in cup game (not sure), and basically everytime a few minutes were thrown his way, he looked nervous, out of place, had brainfarts and just generally seemed overambitious and mentally under pressure.
Ancelotti didn't feel like nurturing in the way he would have needed - which is giving him game time and starts for the sake of game time and starts. But the situation in the team and the squad was not like that - Ancelotti was under pressure for results, the squad and club was in a strange state of transition and somewhat uncertain in terms of identity (Pep having left). Renato himself had been very expensive, too, and every pass and touch was under the microscope, and he seemed to have felt it.
And then there was the purchase of Tolisso, which was our transfer record at the time, which really was like a predetermined death sentence of Renato's first stint for us (the way the signing of Goretzka was for his second). The club just wasn't prepared to afford him the time and squad space he needed, and he needed time in a way other youngsters who make it at the biggest club don't (like Musiala or Alaba earlier).
It's the constellation of squad situation, lack of playing time, expectation, and then performance snapshots and the resulting momentum that just didn't work out. He probably was also just unhappy living alon in Munich, personally. The Swansea loan was of course because Clement was there, who had left as Ancelotti's assistant in midseason (which I still consider weird for our club to have allowed), but it also didn't work out for Clement.
In an alternate universe, he might have been the perfect Thiago successor, even if a bit more of a driving box-to-box type, but the way things went he should stay as far away from Munich as possible.
The karmic conditions seem to be horrible.
He was too young and made way too many wrong career moves to develop properly in his early years. He needed a club that had the time and patience to properly develop him as a player and for me, Bayern wasn't the right club for him because he obviously couldn't deal with that kind of pressure that early.
Not sure if he is ready for a big move now, but I think he is going in the right direction at least.
A move to a club like Man Utd actually would be interesting. He obviously has the talent and we obviously can use him.
He wouldn't be an undisputed first eleven player but he would get there with the right support.
Not sure if he is ready for a big move now, but I think he is going in the right direction at least.
A move to a club like Man Utd actually would be interesting. He obviously has the talent and we obviously can use him.
He wouldn't be an undisputed first eleven player but he would get there with the right support.
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Thanks for the detailed response; filled in a fair few blanks I didn't know about. You're right about the pressure of the spotlight, too. Mentally, if a player is not ready, or needs a specific type of nurturing (coddling), it's nearly always going to end in tears.
I do like that he's reemerged as a more rounded player, but it remains to be seen how strong he is mentally. The spotlight is slowly being redirected right back above his head and the next game or two could well make it a glaring light once more.
Noooooo he's the opposite of Wijnaldum
Gini is an incredibly disciplined player who can do whatever job is needed of him at a very high level. Renato is more like Naby Keita
That's why a return to Bayern would be, in my opinion, a bad idea for everyone involved. It would add extra narrative and pressure of the type that seems to get to him, it just feels unneccessary risky. Then again, maybe it's just all down to age, development and a chance of playing time, and the mentality narrative is something we observers add.
Though it would be a sweet story, and it is a type of player we could use (seeing that we're trying to sell the very Tolisso that was put in front of Sanches back then).
But unless the (as far as I can see, very poorly sourced) rumour about a cheapish buy back clause is true, I don't see it happening at all.
Heynckes wouldn’t have made a difference (especially the Portuguese thing), by the time Sanches could have gone back, he went and did his hamstring. And the manager at that point for Swansea was Carlos Carvalhal, who incidentally speaks pretty good Portuguese.
He still looks rubbish. Never understood what he brought to the game. He’s like a young Fabian Delph
Yeah, that Swansea move really seemed to destroy his confidence. Imagine going from Bayern to Swansea (no disrespect to Swansea) after a high profile move and then underperforming. No wonder his confidence was in the toilet.
The move to Swansea was a bad idea for a plethora of reasons, but his confidence had already been destroyed. Clement spoke about this after his time at Swansea, and said that he had been scarred by his first season at Bayern, he still hoped to turn it around at Swansea but admitted the player “was far more damaged than I thought” .
Carlos Carvalhal nailed it imo
“Someone told me he could go back to Benfica, if he can it is the best step. It happens often with Portuguese players, they have talent then they jump from junior team to the first team, they play well and go to the national team.
But, when after one season in Benfica and with the national team, was he ready to go somewhere like Manchester United? In my opinion no, because he is a boy and he is not developed yet. A year before he was playing under-19 football.
He needed more time in Benfica, to play two or three consistent seasons where he knows more about football.
He has a big talent, but he has much to learn. He stopped learning when he left and went to one of the biggest clubs of the world.
He is a natural playing inside a machine and he was not ready so I think going to Benfica and having his friends and mother and father around him - and a good club to support him - he can achieve the best level."
Interesting read there, thanks. Didn't mean to imply that Swansea had ruined him but he definitely wasn't ready to step up
Don't get me wrong Swansea 100% made things worse. The team by this point had started playing shite football and were destined for a relegation battle. It was an awful environment and especially for a young player trying to find his way. I think Portugal would have been much better
It is crazy if you think about it. Sure he came in to the Benfica team in October. Turned them around and basically led the team, was a proper general and showed maturity, understanding and ability beyond his years. Then in the summer he was off to Bayern. Probably should have stayed longer at Benfica and matured there but personally he should have gone to United in my eyes. I think LVG would have got the best out of him. We were dying for someone to drive the ball out from midfield and Sanches would have gotten that oppertunities whilst being looked after.
I’m still amazed people think he was overhyped, because anyone who watched him emerge and play in that Benfica team surely wouldn’t have thought that.
I’m still amazed people think he was overhyped, because anyone who watched him emerge and play in that Benfica team surely wouldn’t have thought that.
Everytime I watch him, I feels like he’s Pogba but no passing ability.
Defensively, he has no awareness of what he needs to do off the ball. He likes to take too many touches, dribble, take on players, physically strong, aggressive, and has good long shot. This type of midfielder usually needs specific system to make him effective as a team.
Defensively, he has no awareness of what he needs to do off the ball. He likes to take too many touches, dribble, take on players, physically strong, aggressive, and has good long shot. This type of midfielder usually needs specific system to make him effective as a team.
He is such an odd player. He is one of those players who will always be one of the standout stars in international competitions but completely go under the radar in club football. I highly doubt he can show the same level of performance as he does for Portugal.
Like watching Edgar Davids again. I hope he's the real deal.
All action Box to box player is so important to break the lines in the modern game
Still quite erratic, though. He's an easy-on-the-eye type midfielder but it does come with a few turnovers, stray passes and questionable decisions. Still think he looks like a raw gem but, at 23 now, will he iron out his weaknesses?
I'm actually surprised by his ability to pass the ball around, something I never quite recognized in him before, really makes Portugal's midfield tick tonight and on top of that great work ethic on top of that. Sometimes he is a bit rash in his actions, but I'm certainly getting the hype around him now, looks fantastic.