Replacing the staff that just left the club and building a more robust structure

I kind of expected INEOS to bring in some of their own choices on the coaching team, I know Amorim wouldn't have wanted it but I suspect a dissenting voice in the team rather than just his boys would have worked out a lot better for him.

Knew very little about Steve Holland before yesterday but the more I read and view about him. the more impressive his CV looks to me, and if things go well I hope the club look to keep a guy like him around past the end of the season.

 
Dubai said:
That's what I want them to do, not in terms of specific tactics, but a club identity and non-negotiable values. An elite strength and conditioning coach wouldn't struggle to adapt their sessions for the needs of the incoming coach. We might well lose out on an elite coach who insists on bringing his trusted deputies, but starting from a blank slate each time a manager comes in is one of the reasons we've lurched from manager to manager with no progress at all.

Use a restaurant analogy.

Wilcox and Berrada decide United are a bistro-pub, specialising in the best local produce. They employ the best barman in town. The barman has his views on mixology, but understands that he needs to adapt to the needs of the next Head Chef...and follow the bistro-pub identity.

Wilcox and Berrada look for a head chef that will suit a bistro-pub serving local produce, and is happy to work with this barman. They don't go for a Head Chef who wants to change us into an Italian restaurant, ignore local produce and bring in his own barman. Yes, it means that a world class Italian chef isn't interested. But over time, a culture develops beyond the Head Chef...so that when he moves on in 2-3 years everything doesn't fall apart or need to be created by the next manager.
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This is is a nice analogy, but we've not got experienced restraunteurs setting our equivalent bistro-pub identity. We've got novices who can't actually define that identity very clearly, bit like the ex finance guy who "always dreamed of running a restraunt". That's not to say they can't be a success, but they have no idea what success looks like in this model.

It works in the red bull group for example, because all their coaches play the same aggressive, high-intensity, vertical, and attacking style of play. That's how they hire and how they get the most out of their coaches. What is that for us? No one can define it really for United apart from saying: attacking football, brave and giving youth a chance. There's a myriad of ways to fufill that brief, that actually don't inform how you play the game.

In your analogy, we're happy being a bistro having a good menu that suits a lot of people - maybe a couple of rosettes, instead of a Michelin star restaurant that pushes the boundaries of food and wins awards.
 
Lash said:
This is is a nice analogy, but we've not got experienced restraunteurs setting our equivalent bistro-pub identity. We've got novices who can't actually define that identity very clearly, bit like the ex finance guy who "always dreamed of running a restraunt". That's not to say they can't be a success, but they have no idea what success looks like in this model.

It works in the red bull group for example, because all their coaches play the same aggressive, high-intensity, vertical, and attacking style of play. That's how they hire and how they get the most out of their coaches. What is that for us? No one can define it really for United apart from saying: attacking football, brave and giving youth a chance. There's a myriad of ways to fufill that brief, that actually don't inform how you play the game.

In your analogy, we're happy being a bistro having a good menu that suits a lot of people - maybe a couple of rosettes, instead of a Michelin star restaurant that pushes the boundaries of food and wins awards.
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On that, I agree. We're run by the ex finance guy with a dream, and if Ratcliffe gets us closer to success it will be with many costly errors (already) along the way...probably more by luck than judgement. My point is more...like it or not, Berrada and Wilcox have been bought in to try and create an identity, and run the club in a way that outlasts individual managers. As we're set up for that...we might as well lean into it by improving our medical, fitness, scouting with best in class appointments...even if that means we attract a coach more at the Iraola, Howe, Glasner level.

Let's take what I assume is your approach, and appoint the best manager available in summer. They bring in their own team with a philosophy of how to run things at an elite club. They will (quite rightly) want players bought in who fit that model, move on the players that don't, and run the whole show. How long do you see them lasting with Wilcox and Berrada trying to 'manage' them from above? The game has moved on from 1 man single-handedly dragging a club the size of United back to the top.

If we could first get to Brighton's level (just in terms of how well the club is run) where across Hughton, Potter, De Zerbi and Hurzeler the club has consistently operated well in the transfer market, played exciting football and brought youth through, I'd be happier than taking another long shot at a big name.

Anyway, my posts for today are out, interesting discussion...let's see how it plays out!
 
Dubai said:
On that, I agree. We're run by the ex finance guy with a dream, and if Ratcliffe gets us closer to success it will be with many costly errors (already) along the way...probably more by luck than judgement. My point is more...like it or not, Berrada and Wilcox have been bought in to try and create an identity, and run the club in a way that outlasts individual managers. As we're set up for that...we might as well lean into it by improving our medical, fitness, scouting with best in class appointments...even if that means we attract a coach more at the Iraola, Howe, Glasner level.

Let's take what I assume is your approach, and appoint the best manager available in summer. They bring in their own team with a philosophy of how to run things at an elite club. They will (quite rightly) want players bought in who fit that model, move on the players that don't, and run the whole show. How long do you see them lasting with Wilcox and Berrada trying to 'manage' them from above? The game has moved on from 1 man single-handedly dragging a club the size of United back to the top.

If we could first get to Brighton's level (just in terms of how well the club is run) where across Hughton, Potter, De Zerbi and Hurzeler the club has consistently operated well in the transfer market, played exciting football and brought youth through, I'd be happier than taking another long shot at a big name.

Anyway, my posts for today are out, interesting discussion...let's see how it plays out!
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Definitely, but I do think they need guidance on some of the "best in class" appointments would be from someone more experienced in that regard. Otherwise I think it will be a bit hap hazard. It's not to say that team has to stay there forever, they operate within a department and answer within that dept.

I think it is a somewhere in the middle though. Wilcox has to join up the rest of the club, while the manager has the vision for the first team, that needs to align with Wilcox's and Berrarda's aims. I don't think they have the requisite experience to know what that looks like as it stand, so the manager will lead it a bit to begin with. Wilcox and Berrada need to be like Fergie in the sense that they should be able to take the advice of a manager who knows what he's doing and adopt the ideas that match their vision for the football club.

I'd like that, but the problem is Brighton's guiding principle is a data driven approach for profit and incremental gains. We should have loftier aims, but employ the methods that align with that. I am team Iraola, so I definitely would prefer what you're saying, but I don't think we should sign Iraola and then let Wilcox chose the rest of the staff - sounds like a recipe for disaster to begin with.

definitely, thanks for the detailed responses!
 
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