Return to a Ferguson Style of Management / Where are the goals going to come from?

[mariachi-19]

With Lukaku leaving and no player being brought in to replace him, has Ole reverted to a Sir Alex way of management? That is where the inherent need for a player to step up once another more established player has left, ensures that those filling the void raise their game to a new height to compensate for that loss.

When we lost Ruud, Ronaldo and Rooney stepped up another gear.

When we lost Ronaldo, Rooney stepped up another gear.

Since SAF retired, United have attempted to buy their way out of this position rather then trying to promote from within. It worked marginally with Zlatan, but otherwise we've brought in strikers that quite simply havent delivered and the development of the younger ones (Martial/Rashford) has stalled.

It feels as if Ole is looking at Rashford and Martial and saying, you boys have the potential to be king dingaling, now show me that you can do it and make that role your own.

Glazers and Ed will cop shit for not reinforcing the striking position, but sometimes you have to throw players into the deep end to find out if they're going to sink or swim.

Losing Ruud could have backfired on us massively considering Saha (being the only established 9 in the team at the time) was a sick note, but in the end we probably didnt even need him. In any event, if Alexis is played down the middle, he might be able to fill this void as an experienced head.

Discuss.

 

[Ian Reus]

Neil Webb

 

[Irrational.]

I think the squad will surprise a lot of people.

If we can get some of the attacking midfield players (Pogba, Lingard) hitting double figures, Maguire chipping in from the back and Rashford/ Martial to have breakthrough seasons whilst Sanchez finds some form (stranger things have happened), then I think we'll be alright.

 

[0le]

It could go something like this:
Greenwood - 5 goals (provided we qualify from Europa League group and do well in the domestic cups)
Martial - 5 more goals than last season
Rashford - 5 more goals than last season
Maguire - 2 goals from set pieces

The remainder would be shared amongst the team. Maybe James will get a goal or two.

Its definitely a problem, but it is not insurmountable. Lukaku got goals, but its easy to forget he also broke up a lot of attacks too. With him out of the way, we should be a little better in buulding attacks. I have no doubt the above players will chip in with more goals, the only doubt I have is whether it will be enough to first replace the 20 goals we lost via Lukaku and then exceed that.

 

[Black Adder]

IMO defence is sorted with Maguire and Wan Bissaka arrivals, as well as Lindelof adjusting to PL.

Also I'm not worried about attack eventhough we've lost Lukaku without replacing him. Really think that Martial and Rashford can step up a level and deliver, but that's on Ole to bring it out of them. Also Sanchez can only work through the middle (if there's any quality left in him), so hope he'll be given chance as a striker, not LW. Greenwood looks like an elite prospect but he needs to be nurtured right. With Gomes and Chong given their chances, think attack will do just fine.

Only worry is midfield where McTomminay is only player that could really step a gear. He made me look like a fool and I'm glad to admit it! I've though he'll be gone by summer when Mourinho was here, but his progress has been amazing! So amazing that I cannot imagine line-up without him, and seeing Matić or Fred instead of him really makes me sad. Pogba is also a worry, how much he'll be invested in the team after agitating for a move and flirting with Madrid for so long and without much needed new signing in the middle of the park? As for the rest, Matić is dead, Fred is about to get married for a 7th time in a row and Pereira is something beetween CM, AM, RM, DM while not being anything in particular, not much hope for any of them.

Also expect Ole to step up a little bit and show he has plan B, not just plan A. At the end of the season when things went south he couldn't find solution to stop the slump, hope it was more of a fitness issues than reflection of his managment skills. Been disgruntled with him since there wasn't great clearout we've all been expecting, but since the tranfer deadline is over let's get behind him and hope for the best.

 

[predator]

Sounds well and good and of course I'm hoping it happens but I just cant see us getting too many goals next season without an established goalscorer in the squad.

We will have a better idea of the state of the squad with 3 games into the season.

 

[Bwuk]

We really need Martial and Rashford to both hit 20 - 25 in all comps at a minimum, and I really don’t think they will.

Not enough goals in this side.

 

[Ian Reus]

I think the squad will surprise a lot of people.

If we can get some of the attacking midfield players (Pogba, Lingard) hitting double figures, Maguire chipping in from the back and Rashford/ Martial to have breakthrough seasons whilst Sanchez finds some form (stranger things have happened), then I think we'll be alright.

I reckon Maguire will outscore Linxgard this season.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Imagine the prices we will be quoted for even a half decent striker if Rashford, Martial et al don't come good by Christmas. All this must be laid at the incompetent handling of transfers by Woodward.

 

[Trophy Room]

Imagine the prices we will be quoted for even a half decent striker if Rashford, Martial et al don't come good by Christmas. All this must be laid at the incompetent handling of transfers by Woodward.

Just chill! These last 6 years have scarred us all. Things have a way of working out. If you were on the Bruno Fernandes bandwagon, you’ll see that in a few years we won’t regret that we didn’t buy him. United won’t win the league but I think we’ll have an interesting season.

 

[stepic]

People still expecting Lingard to improve? Aw

 

[mariachi-19]

Imagine the prices we will be quoted for even a half decent striker if Rashford, Martial et al don't come good by Christmas. All this must be laid at the incompetent handling of transfers by Woodward.

What half decent strikers?

Take a look around at the current market. There's a huge lack of number 9's in the game.

 

[Bestofthebest]

What half decent strikers?

Take a look around at the current market. There's a huge lack of number 9's in the game.

Exactly. That's why we will only be looking at the rubbish end of the scale and still be getting fleeced. Perhaps we could see if Peter Crouch would come to us !!!

 

[mattsville]

This is where we will see if Ole and the coaching team have the ability to motivate the players and gel them together to score the goals, the defence seems to have been prioritised, have no issue with that it needed sorting and Fergie used to build from the back out, but that is on the manager and coaches to achieve. The concern I would have is the midfield, I think we are light on numbers, given we are going to play a high octane way you are more prone to injuries and fatigue and you have Matic in there who is slowing down and just not suited to that way of playing, Scott looks like he is up for it, Fred and Peireira need to up it, you are reliant on that, so there is a question mark there, Pogba is inconsistent but brilliant when he wants to be, there is a Euros coming up so hopefully that keeps him on the ball.

 

[Bestofthebest]

I admire your optimism but I'm only pointing out the other side of the coin. Just not sure Rashford or Martial can play as out and out goal scorers. Greenwood looks the more likely but it's a lot to ask for a kid of his age in an already experimental team/set up. Hope it is not too traumatic for him. If he gets enough games that is.

Frankly I'd like to see all three of them hit 20 goals each.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Players improving and playing well should be a given with a good coach.

And that's the crux with Ole. He says the right things and we've seen glimpses of it but will he be able to get the team playing in a proper organised, structured way? The problem is he doesn't have the time to do that over the course of a 'rebuild' season. In pre-season, whenever we got pressed, we lacked the movement to play out from the back and then got dominated in possession by Spurs, who were a couple of games behind us in preparation. It's still revert to hoof ball and counter attack, which is fine if we were particularly good or consistent with it but we're not; we rely on individualistic plays and don't create enough chances when it's not a break in play or a mistake from the opposition etc.

He's a pragmatist, which is great also but I think there's need to be a balance between going full Sarri and Fergie's (which only he could do) 'let them play and figure it out on the pitch' freedom.

There's too much of the latter for me because Ole is not Fergie and neither do we have the leaders with experience on the pitch that could fight it out themselves.

The amount of youth we had is great and I'm glad he supports that but it needs just as much serious coaching and specific instructions per player as an arm around the shoulder with a smiley face.

I want to see him to go fecking ballistic on the bench and scream at Rashford/Pogba/Martial if they overplay it or make a mistake and not go all out to correct it.

 

[mariachi-19]

Players improving and playing well should be a given with a good coach.

And that's the crux with Ole. He says the right things and we've seen glimpses of it but will he be able to get the team playing in a proper organised, structured way? The problem is he doesn't have the time to do that over the course of a 'rebuild' season. In pre-season, whenever we got pressed, we lacked the movement to play out from the back and then got dominated in possession by Spurs, who were a couple of games behind us in preparation. It's still revert to hoof ball and counter attack, which is fine if we were particularly good or consistent with it but we're not; we rely on individualistic plays and don't create enough chances when it's not a break in play or a mistake from the opposition etc.

He's a pragmatist, which is great also but I think there's need to be a balance between going full Sarri and Fergie's (which only he could do) 'let them play and figure it out on the pitch' freedom.

There's too much of the latter for me because Ole is not Fergie and neither do we have the leaders with experience on the pitch that could fight it out themselves.

The amount of youth we had is great and I'm glad he supports that but it needs just as much serious coaching and specific instructions per player as an arm around the shoulder with a smiley face.

I want to see him to go fecking ballistic on the bench and scream at Rashford/Pogba/Martial if they overplay it or make a mistake and not go all out to correct it.

Ole is still trying to get runs on the board himself. Its not a case of he can just do this yet. Fergie could do it because he was the King. There was never a single player that could ever question him.

 

[11101]

I think we will do better than people think. The team fits together more than it has in the past and we have a very young, hungry squad.

I just hope Ole isn't going down the SAF route of youngsters and a British core just because that's what he saw SAF do, rather than understanding why he did it.

 

[mariachi-19]

I think we will do better than people think. The team fits together more than it has in the past and we have a very young, hungry squad.

I just hope Ole isn't going down the SAF route of youngsters and a British core just because that's what he saw SAF do, rather than understanding why he did it.

I think its beyond clear why he did it. United is the epitome for these players. You make it there, you've made it as a footballer. I feel even the likes of Terry et al sort of wish in the back of their mind they had played for United at somepoint. being a United legend is a far bigger deal then I think people realise.

 

[lsd]

The only thing really worries me is with Lukaku gone and Fellaini we don't have any attackers that are good in the air . So we will be limited in our attacking play as little point banging in crosses

Unless Pogba scores a few headers who else in our attack will ?

 

[Rolaholic]

The only thing really worries me is with Lukaku gone and Fellaini we don't have any attackers that are good in the air . So we will be limited in our attacking play as little point banging in crosses

Unless Pogba scores a few headers who else in our attack will ?

Maguire is pretty great in the air.

Honestly I don't see that as much of a negative if it means we'll move away from desperation long ball/hoofball football when we need a goal. It's just the lack of creativity in the MF that really worries me

 

[Heinzesight]

People still expecting Lingard to improve? Aw

As one of the youngsters, he has time on his side

 

[Lmarco]

As one of the youngsters, he has time on his side

Turning 27 in December though.

 

[foolsgold]

The only thing really worries me is with Lukaku gone and Fellaini we don't have any attackers that are good in the air . So we will be limited in our attacking play as little point banging in crosses

Unless Pogba scores a few headers who else in our attack will ?

Sanchez is probably the best header of the ball in our team

 

[criticalanalysis]

Ole is still trying to get runs on the board himself. Its not a case of he can just do this yet. Fergie could do it because he was the King. There was never a single player that could ever question him.

I'm optimistic and excited for the season but it's not going to be smooth sailing and he needs to show some passion/shout instructions/give them a piece of his mind on the sidelines.

Small things like that change a game, it stops the flow of momentum of the opposition, perks up the players etc. Too many times towards the end of the season, it was just watch and do nothing.

Coaching should be 24/7. He's not doing a LVG and overloading them with information and tactics so there's plenty of opportunity to do it during the game.

 

[Rozay]

IMO defence is sorted with Maguire and Wan Bissaka arrivals, as well as Lindelof adjusting to PL.

Also I'm not worried about attack eventhough we've lost Lukaku without replacing him. Really think that Martial and Rashford can step up a level and deliver, but that's on Ole to bring it out of them. Also Sanchez can only work through the middle (if there's any quality left in him), so hope he'll be given chance as a striker, not LW. Greenwood looks like an elite prospect but he needs to be nurtured right. With Gomes and Chong given their chances, think attack will do just fine.

Only worry is midfield where McTomminay is only player that could really step a gear. He made me look like a fool and I'm glad to admit it! I've though he'll be gone by summer when Mourinho was here, but his progress has been amazing! So amazing that I cannot imagine line-up without him, and seeing Matić or Fred instead of him really makes me sad. Pogba is also a worry, how much he'll be invested in the team after agitating for a move and flirting with Madrid for so long and without much needed new signing in the middle of the park? As for the rest, Matić is dead, Fred is about to get married for a 7th time in a row and Pereira is something beetween CM, AM, RM, DM while not being anything in particular, not much hope for any of them.

Also expect Ole to step up a little bit and show he has plan B, not just plan A. At the end of the season when things went south he couldn't find solution to stop the slump, hope it was more of a fitness issues than reflection of his managment skills. Been disgruntled with him since there wasn't great clearout we've all been expecting, but since the tranfer deadline is over let's get behind him and hope for the best.

That is far from fact. I’m expecting a big season from Fred, and we frankly need one.

In general, I’m optimistic about the season, although I share your concern with the midfield area, and we really could have done with one more in there. That said, I am hopeful Fred will step up, and am confident that Gomes will shine if and when given the chance.

I will be angry and confused every time I see Mata play.

 

[Lebowski]

The problem is that in order to expect the remaining players to fill the void of a big loss by stepping up, you need to have young players entering their prime who have the ability to become world class.

I agree that Ole clearly takes his managerial style from Ferguson and would likely want to adopt the sort of approach you outline- a tight-knit squad of committed professionals with a siege mentality stepping up and improving when faced with adversity / a player leaving.

However in the example you gave (Ruud leaving), we had Ronaldo and Rooney coming into their prime, Rio as one of the best CB's in the world and senior pros like Neville, Giggs and Scholes littering the squad and dominating the dressing room, instilling in every youngster exactly what is expected when you play for United.

You couldn't ask for a better combination of world class ability and world class football tutelage.

I unfortunately don't see any of the same signs in this United team. Our only two arguably world class players are Pogba and De Gea. Both openly want to leave the club. One is incredibly inconsistent and has had his professionalism questioned by the previous manager, and the other is a goal keeper coming off the back of his worst ever season. It's expecting a lot for Pogba to raise his game to the consistent level we need to cover for the loss of midfield talent when he doesn't see his own future at the club.

The senior pros to set an example to these players are Young, Smalling, Jones, Matic and Mata. They might be nice people, but they lack pedigree and credibility. They don't have a leg to stand on when they demand more from the youngsters.

You can hope that Rashford, Martial, McTominay and the crop of young academy lads we have all have breakthrough seasons, but the jury is still out on the former and it's expecting far too much too soon from the latter. And we're back to hoping and praying rather than pretending it's part of a focused effort to adopt the same approach that worked for us in the past.

We were running around after players like Dybala, Eriksen, Manzukic etc scrambling for whichever player was available with days to go in the window. As much as I'd like to believe the lack of replacements this summer is part of a long-term plan, I think it's more likely to be a continuation of the poor planning and expertise that has epitomised the football side of our operations for most of the last decade.

 

[cyril C]

It could go something like this:
Greenwood - 5 goals (provided we qualify from Europa League group and do well in the domestic cups)
Martial - 5 more goals than last season
Rashford - 5 more goals than last season
Maguire - 2 goals from set pieces

The remainder would be shared amongst the team. Maybe James will get a goal or two.

Its definitely a problem, but it is not insurmountable. Lukaku got goals, but its easy to forget he also broke up a lot of attacks too. With him out of the way, we should be a little better in buulding attacks. I have no doubt the above players will chip in with more goals, the only doubt I have is whether it will be enough to first replace the 20 goals we lost via Lukaku and then exceed that.

Do remember Herrera scored 2x EPL goals as well, and Pogba scored 13 league goals but what if he is unloved suddenly, which could see a gap of say 4 goals to be filled. Rashford started 33 league games last season so it is easier for Sanchez to score more goals (with more appearance) than Rashford, unless there is a substantial improvement in tactics, form and willingness, to score 5 more goals next season. Including Lukaku's there will be a gap of 20 goals, which can only be filled if there is a substantial improvement on form on either Martial or Rashford, or both, pushing either to 20-goals season, or Sanchez for that matter.

 

[mariachi-19]

I'm optimistic and excited for the season but it's not going to be smooth sailing and he needs to show some passion/shout instructions/give them a piece of his mind on the sidelines.

Small things like that change a game, it stops the flow of momentum of the opposition, perks up the players etc. Too many times towards the end of the season, it was just watch and do nothing.

Coaching should be 24/7. He's not doing a LVG and overloading them with information and tactics so there's plenty of opportunity to do it during the game.

What could he do but? The players were absolutely knackered.

It should be clear to everybody, those players didnt give up at the end of last season. What Ole made them do at the start had serious knock on affects to overall stamina. You simply cannot go from one style to another over night and not have a net negative affect long term. Thats not how this shit works at the highest level.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

We will play well. Some games we won't create many chances and some games we wont convert them properly. But we will be playing better imho. Cause have consequences. Things will add up eventually and we will do panic signings january. Hope not, but i do know thats how we operate. We never make it easy.

 

[Patrick08]

Not replacing Lukaku is not a worrisome prospect. It's not bringing in RW and Replacing midfielders while keeping deadwood like Matic and Mata here.

 

[Black Adder]

That is far from fact. I’m expecting a big season from Fred, and we frankly need one.

In general, I’m optimistic about the season, although I share your concern with the midfield area, and we really could have done with one more in there. That said, I am hopeful Fred will step up, and am confident that Gomes will shine if and when given the chance.

I will be angry and confused every time I see Mata play.

Yeah, it's just my feeling, nothing else.

Would like to be proven wrong by Fred, but for some reason I just don't see it in him. Would be great if Fred turns out to be player everyone expected him to be, our midfield would suddenly look much more solid and with more options. Gomes is attacking midfielder so didn't include him in CM selection which will be shared between Matić, McTomminay, Fred and Pogba, but you're right, he does look like someone who'll shine if given proper chance.

The less is said about Matić and Mata the better

 

[SteveW]

You know what? I can't fecking wait to see how our attack does this season. Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are all hugely exciting and are being given top billing by a manager who believes in them. If they repay his faith it could be one of the most enjoyable seasons in years. Add an Gomes to the mix and it could be joyous. (or they could flop and it could be a disaster, but the suspense is part of the fun )

 

[Nogbadthebad]

For me, the key players are Fred and Sanchez.

If those two find form, with Sanchez as a striker, and the younger ones continue their progression, then I think we will do better than most expect. I said we would get 4th in the predictor, because with a better defense we shouldn't need as many goals to win matches anyway.

 

[criticalanalysis]

What could he do but? The players were absolutely knackered.

It should be clear to everybody, those players didnt give up at the end of last season. What Ole made them do at the start had serious knock on affects to overall stamina. You simply cannot go from one style to another over night and not have a net negative affect long term. Thats not how this shit works at the highest level.

Perhaps but I think you've given too much benefit of the doubt to Ole there. Screw tactics and playing style, sometimes you just need a rush of blood to the head and a fecking slap on the back to wake someone up.

If the team was knackered that doesn't mean you just let the team become knackered and play as it (which is exactly what happened and it was going through the emotions).

Forget Fergie's outbursts on the sidelines, when he saw something wasn't going right, every top manager does this.

Call what you like about Klopp and Guardiola's overtly expressive actions on the sides but their teams respond to that. You can't just let a team of misfits play for 45mins straight and let it be.

 

[The Boy]

Worth a bump as hindsight is a great thing

We really need Martial and Rashford to both hit 20 - 25 in all comps at a minimum, and I really don’t think they will.

Not enough goals in this side.

Bet you're glad so many underestimated them now

I reckon Maguire will outscore Linxgard this season.

What a prophecy!

 

[meamth]

I'm one of those optimistic fan who believed Martial and Rashford will score 20+ goals this season.

I'm proud.