Rewarding mediocrity - Why do the Glazers do it?

Raees

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With recent rumours of a contract extension for Rashford, Pogba circling the rounds despite the arrival of Rangnick - who was meant to put an end to the bloating of the squad filled with poor performers it does beg the question...

If the Glazers are meant to be penny pinching businessmen who care about their bottom line before everything, why on earth has a culture of rewarding failure been allowed to develop at United?

This is a club which ruthlessly got rid of Hughes, Ince, Kanchelskis in one summer... Stam, Ruud - and yes you can argue it is because Fergie is no longer here but all other elite football clubs seem to have that ability to get rid of players/managers when they don’t perform anymore but we offer new contracts to people who are clearly out of their depth - we even do it with Woodward himself and look at how long it takes us to sack managers.

Forget about tactics, this is the real root cause of all our evils. But I can’t fathom why... anyone who knows more about their modus operandi feel free to fill us in...
 

sparx99

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Because renewing contracts is cheaper than buying replacements
 

Raees

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Because renewing contracts is cheaper than buying replacements
But if it is at the expense of your business being maximised and ultimately becoming even more profitable - why do it?

Fair enough if you tried that approach in the beginning but if it is not working you surely have to adapt? Furthermore we seem to be losing a lot of transfer value on assets by holding on to them long after their resale value has gone.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Are the Glazers particularly clever and/or ruthless businessmen (and a woman)?

Their dad was, we know that. But what have his offspring actually done beyond inheriting a shitload of money (and Manchester United)?
 

ManchesterManchester

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- as post above said. It’s cheaper than buying new players even if they are not good enough. I am sure they also give them an asset value on the books, even if they are worthless. I am sure they keep renewing Mata because they paid 40m for him years ago (not that I have an issue with his renewal).

- social media clicks. Lingard and Pogba etc have huge followings. They simply care more about this side of the business because they know they don’t want to spend the money to compete with Man City.
 

M Bison

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If i was Glazers i'd be getting Rashford signed up to a new contract too, and i wouldnt want us to, but i can see the rationale for signing Pogba up to a new contract too.
 

Nickelodeon

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Benchmarking ourselves with the rest of the league, apart from Bruno, it seems that every single one of our players is overpaid. When our young players like Rashford and Martial had good seasons, we gave them contracts which were of world class player standards. Our players should always have the fear that if they don’t perform, they can be sold. However, the wages become a stumbling block when we want to dispose off players who’re not meeting the standards.

In my opinion, this is our biggest problem.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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They are poor owners who don't understand the game well enough or care to do so even after nearly two decades of owning the team. Like anyone insecure of their ability, they like to hold onto the assets they have for dear life and reward people in management that they perceive to be loyal.
 

K Stand Knut

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Because the fans accept it and are won over by a bit of money spent on a big name!!

Sections of the crowd, large vocal sections at that, started the Rashford chant on Monday after one of the shittest performances I’ve ever seen from a United player with any ounce of talent.
 

Born2Lose

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Are the Glazers particularly clever and/or ruthless businessmen (and a woman)?

Their dad was, we know that. But what have his offspring actually done beyond inheriting a shitload of money (and Manchester United)?
This. Whatever you think of the guy you have to admit it was a very shrewd move to buy United when he did.

The children are inept and my hope is RR can show them a better way to do things which makes them more money but also shows better performances on the pitch. The smartest thing they could ever do is listen to the guy.
 

Deery

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It’s not really the Glazers fault, they put up the millions in transfers and wages to get good players, problem is the managers and scout bought shit players for they same money a championship winning team would spend, can’t expect a business to keep firing money at a problem to fix it.
 

JebelSherif

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This is a club which ruthlessly got rid of Hughes, Ince, Kanchelskis in one summer... Stam, Ruud - and yes you can argue it is because Fergie is no longer here but all other elite football clubs seem to have that ability to get rid of players/managers
It's funny this, because a) fergie is still 'here' and b) on 4 million a year I believe. So yes, he was ruthless - but people haven't been ruthless with him - which is very topical at the moment: "one rule for one...." and all that.
 

Dancfc

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Arsenal fans screamed and moaned about Wenger for years to no avail, soon as they took the action that threatened Kroenke's wallet (boycotting games) they finally got what they wanted.

Now of course owners is a different ball game but people like The Glazers care understand one language and that's cash. Do you think they care about protests when a large chunk of those people proceed to raid the megastore and pay them for a seat at Old Trafford?
 

big rons sovereign

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It's funny this, because a) fergie is still 'here' and b) on 4 million a year I believe. So yes, he was ruthless - but people haven't been ruthless with him - which is very topical at the moment: "one rule for one...." and all that.
White text?
 

Class of 1902

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Pretty simple, renewing contracts on lucrative deals adds to the value of the club. Or so they believe.
 

Gordon Godot

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It’s not really the Glazers fault, they put up the millions in transfers and wages to get good players, problem is the managers and scout bought shit players for they same money a championship winning team would spend, can’t expect a business to keep firing money at a problem to fix it.
ARe you serious? Firstly, it is the club's money, generated ultimately from fans. How very generous of them not to take it all to buy more yachts. They then appoint the people who spend the money, Woodward. He is useless, no idea of football, a joke amongst EUropean teams and agents. No scouting network, no football structure or philosophy. Of course its their fault. But they dont really care. They line their pockets and sit on an asset worth billions. We need to make them care
 

Skills

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Because it's just as stupid to let assets depreciate? You can't win either way.
 

sugar_kane

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This merited a thread but not sure Rashford and Pogba are the best examples of this… and I say that as someone who would rather Pogba left.

In each case at least they play when fit, the much bigger issue is offering stupid contracts to fringe players and then never playing them, and to unproven youth prospects. Both of these factors have contributed towards the drop in standards and distrusted dressing room harmony.

It could be that the poster above who says a new contract is cheaper than a new player is right, I had put our approach down to sheer incompetence but these are billionaires we are dealing with who will be surrounded by highly paid financial advisers.

I have a vague theory that Woodward was just some deranged fanboy who was given free reign to run the club like it was his own Football Manager game, and he thought he a was being astute while actually just slowly destroying the club - but that’s likely a fantasy partly fuelled by all the frequent personal PR he funnels through media.
 

Gordon Godot

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Because it's just as stupid to let assets depreciate? You can't win either way.
Not sure I get your point. If players are not good enough they need to go, we need to maximise resale value. We also need to reset our salaries and stop being taken for fools, which then helps us sell the surplus players. Players needs to want to play for the club. FOcus on youth, with proper investment in scouting and youth system. Decisions on players to be taken by football people, not bankers.
 

Ixion

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Spend a minimum to maintain a challenge for top 4 places and players that maintain the brand. We can occasionally throw money at it to get someone like Bruno that will let us keep limping on and scraping CL places and thats enough for them.
 

DWelbz19

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It’s a safety net. As said above, renewing what you have is so much easier (and cheaper) than signing new players.
 

JPRouve

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Spend a minimum to maintain a challenge for top 4 places. We can occasionally throw money at it to get someone like Bruno that will let us keep limping on and scraping CL places and thats enough for them.
We spend a maximum. This club spend around 95% of its revenue on Football operations. people really struggle with the simple answer. Most clubs aren't well managed and United is one of them.

Also it's not cheaper, if anything it's more expensive to renew and upgrade contracts then sell players after 3 years and bring players on similar contracts.
 

Gordon Godot

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We spend a maximum. This club spend around 95% of its revenue on Football operations. people really struggle with the simple answer. Most clubs aren't well managed and United is one of them.

Also it's not cheaper, if anything it's more expensive to renew and upgrade contracts then sell players after 3 years and bring players on similar contracts.
So you improve the scouting and stop paying stupid wages. Agree that most clubs are not well managed, Utd is the worst of the major clubs. I have worked in banks, bankers are cr@p managers as they have small teams and dont run anything. Most banks are badly run as successful bankers are promoted despite like of experience, Woodward had no basis to be CEO at Utd and should ahve been kept on the commercial side. Glazers DO NOT CARE so allow sh@t to happen, as long as teh cash keep rolling in. Its really not hard to understand.
 

Deery

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ARe you serious? Firstly, it is the club's money, generated ultimately from fans. How very generous of them not to take it all to buy more yachts. They then appoint the people who spend the money, Woodward. He is useless, no idea of football, a joke amongst EUropean teams and agents. No scouting network, no football structure or philosophy. Of course its their fault. But they dont really care. They line their pockets and sit on an asset worth billions. We need to make them care
It’s a business like it or not, if I spent the most money in the league I’d want a return on my investment too.

You buy shit players you win shit prizes..
 

Gordon Godot

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It’s a business like it or not, if I spent the most money in the league I’d want a return on my investment too.

You buy shit players you win shit prizes..
Not sure we disagree. Of course its a business, but its also astonishgly badly run. Because the owners dont care about trophies. Not one bit. If you accept that then the rest is understandable. Or you think the club is well run? We have a useless scouting network and no overall recruitment strategy. Who is suggesting buying crap players? But £50m on AWB or £80m on Maguire are good business? Or the rumoured £350k per week for Sancho? Remember Sancho? THere is not a better right back in global football for half the money we spent on AWB, really? The money spent on Pogba salary and wages could have been spent on youth, much better value than the dozen or so peformances that he produced to justifiy the cost.
 

Deery

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Not sure we disagree. Of course its a business, but its also astonishgly badly run. Because the owners dont care about trophies. Not one bit. If you accept that then the rest is understandable. Or you think the club is well run? We have a useless scouting network and no overall recruitment strategy. Who is suggesting buying crap players? But £50m on AWB or £80m on Maguire are good business? Or the rumoured £350k per week for Sancho? Remember Sancho? THere is not a better right back in global football for half the money we spent on AWB, really? The money spent on Pogba salary and wages could have been spent on youth, much better value than the dozen or so peformances that he produced to justifiy the cost.
We could have had Dias and Cancelo for less money than Maguire and AWB, somewhere a manager has to make the call on these transfers and the club sign them off and historically we’ve gotten them horrendously bad the past 6-7 years. If the right players were brought in we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
 

Revaulx

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I have a vague theory that Woodward was just some deranged fanboy who was given free reign to run the club like it was his own Football Manager game, and he thought he a was being astute while actually just slowly destroying the club - but that’s likely a fantasy partly fuelled by all the frequent personal PR he funnels through media.
I’m not at all sure it’s a fantasy actually, and it can be explained perfectly rationally, at least where some players are concerned.

It seems likely that many transfers aren’t driven by the buying club’s scouts or manager, or even by “deranged fanboy” CEOs spotting a player they like. For years now the footballing world has been polluted by players’ agents who somehow have to justify their ridiculous salaries and commissions; these agents will constantly be in contact with potential buyers hawking their wares to the highest bidder.

Do we really believe that on approaching Jose, Ed asked him which player he’d most like to have bought for him and he answered with Pogba? Isn’t it more likely that Raiola gave Ed a call and pointed out what a hero he’d be in the eyes of the world if he were only to reverse SAF’s disastrous mistake and bring Pogba “home”?

Donny: Ajax were short of cash thanks to Covid. They decide which player they could get a decent chunk of cash for without seriously weakening their squad. Edwin gives his mate Ed a call and points out what a good idea it would be etc.

Ronaldo: was he really demanded by Ole, or the scouts? I think we know the answer to that.

SAF clearly wasn’t happy with the rise of the agent culture, but he still managed to coexist with it without being constantly ripped off; Bebe was relatively cheap after all. Ed lacks SAF’s gritty Glaswegian nous, and seems to be susceptible to flattery.
 

Lentwood

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The Glazers probably couldn't name three players. You honestly think they get involved in who we keep and what contracts we offer them?

The problem is Ed Woodward, and has been for the last ten years
 

dinostar77

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The Glazers probably couldn't name three players. You honestly think they get involved in who we keep and what contracts we offer them?

The problem is Ed Woodward, and has been for the last ten years
Yep its Woodwards stupid policy. Hopefully arnold won't be so stupid
 

youmeletsfly

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People thinking the Glazers know stuff inside the club are out of their fecking minds. When you have owners that really go deep inside the club you end up with someone as Levy appointed and you're entirely fecked.

Grow up ffs, these Glazers guys spent 1+ billion since SAF left, let that fecking sink in. It does not matter if it's from "their money" or money the club "makes", it's still their money.

The only people at fault for this are the CEO, coaching and playing staff, end of story.
 

Gordon Godot

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I’m not at all sure it’s a fantasy actually, and it can be explained perfectly rationally, at least where some players are concerned.

It seems likely that many transfers aren’t driven by the buying club’s scouts or manager, or even by “deranged fanboy” CEOs spotting a player they like. For years now the footballing world has been polluted by players’ agents who somehow have to justify their ridiculous salaries and commissions; these agents will constantly be in contact with potential buyers hawking their wares to the highest bidder.

Do we really believe that on approaching Jose, Ed asked him which player he’d most like to have bought for him and he answered with Pogba? Isn’t it more likely that Raiola gave Ed a call and pointed out what a hero he’d be in the eyes of the world if he were only to reverse SAF’s disastrous mistake and bring Pogba “home”?

Donny: Ajax were short of cash thanks to Covid. They decide which player they could get a decent chunk of cash for without seriously weakening their squad. Edwin gives his mate Ed a call and points out what a good idea it would be etc.

Ronaldo: was he really demanded by Ole, or the scouts? I think we know the answer to that.

SAF clearly wasn’t happy with the rise of the agent culture, but he still managed to coexist with it without being constantly ripped off; Bebe was relatively cheap after all. Ed lacks SAF’s gritty Glaswegian nous, and seems to be susceptible to flattery.
Its not fantasy, if something likes look a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, then... Our scouting and recruitment is a joke. Woodward had no contacts amognst top clubs and some of the foreign journos used to comment on what a joke he was seen as, dollar signs light up when he appoaches. Just look at the Ole saga, no plans or soundings at all until suddenly he goes. Then lurch to something else. Discussionn on VDB last night on radio, was he properly scouted, given huge difference of Dutch league to premier, or we saw the SPanish clubs supposedly interest and jump in. Just like Ronnie, no way Pep ever signing him. Sanchez, Arsenal fans saying legs are gone and he gives the ball away. We play a King's ransom for him. Why? What about building a squad of committed players. But with Ronnie Utd panick, its a dream for Ed and shirt sales and social media, even Fergie getting involved. After the Moyes debacle we seem not to learn.

The club is a joke and its stems from owners who dont care and a CEO who is utterly inept. Why do people seem so reluctant to accept this? We have a 3 year hunt for a DOF and land on Fletcher. WTF!!!!
 

Gordon Godot

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People thinking the Glazers know stuff inside the club are out of their fecking minds. When you have owners that really go deep inside the club you end up with someone as Levy appointed and you're entirely fecked.

Grow up ffs, these Glazers guys spent 1+ billion since SAF left, let that fecking sink in. It does not matter if it's from "their money" or money the club "makes", it's still their money.

The only people at fault for this are the CEO, coaching and playing staff, end of story.
Agree. The Glazers dont care, never did and never will. Dont care if Utd never win a trophy again. Dont believe a word of the PR that comes out of OT, assuming the roof doesnt cave in. The transfer spend from a Glazer pespective is irrelvant, they have made a huge return on the couple of hundred million they put in themselves to buy the club, and get nice annual payments.
 

Sky1981

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We are guilty of it as well. Fans loved players like martial, pogba, rashy, bruney, lingardinho for whatever romantic reason. Academy product, one of us, good lad, high ceiling etc

We would have rioted if martial was allowed to leave on free 2 years ago, even if it turns out to be a smart move. Nobody would survive that move.

As long as we're not back on top everything we do would be wrong in fans eye. That's part and parcel of a big club.

We only see hindsights but when it happens, 50m for AWB and 80M for Maguire is lauded as a brilliant signing. I too was excited when we brought MS, BFS and angel di Maria in one window.
 

Champ

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If we didn't give these players a new contract when they deserve one, and they end up running down thier contract to leave on a free, then the Glazers and manager would end up getting abuse anyhow, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't on here!!

Lets not forget that Chelsea for example still have Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Batshuyai, Emerson, Baba Rahman on their books and also have Barkley on a six year contract who barely gets game time, they may have not renewed some of these players contracts but they have with some, and the others were signed on extremely long term contracts. Every club signs players to long term contracts or renewals in order to protect their assess.

It's not rewarding mediocrity, its protecting and ringfencing assets (players).
 

Rightnr

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The truth is far simpler than people want it to be.

The Glazers are not that smart generally and especially when it comes to football. Generational wealth does not make you a businessman.
 

Rood

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With recent rumours of a contract extension for Rashford, Pogba circling the rounds despite the arrival of Rangnick - who was meant to put an end to the bloating of the squad filled with poor performers it does beg the question...

If the Glazers are meant to be penny pinching businessmen who care about their bottom line before everything, why on earth has a culture of rewarding failure been allowed to develop at United?

This is a club which ruthlessly got rid of Hughes, Ince, Kanchelskis in one summer... Stam, Ruud - and yes you can argue it is because Fergie is no longer here but all other elite football clubs seem to have that ability to get rid of players/managers when they don’t perform anymore but we offer new contracts to people who are clearly out of their depth - we even do it with Woodward himself and look at how long it takes us to sack managers.

Forget about tactics, this is the real root cause of all our evils. But I can’t fathom why... anyone who knows more about their modus operandi feel free to fill us in...
From a business point of view, renewing Pogba rather than let him leave for free absolutely makes sense since he's valued at £75m+
 

Chesterlestreet

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I have a vague theory that Woodward was just some deranged fanboy who was given free reign to run the club like it was his own Football Manager game, and he thought he a was being astute while actually just slowly destroying the club - but that’s likely a fantasy partly fuelled by all the frequent personal PR he funnels through media.
According to some, Ed's a lifelong Chelmsford City fan.

Others say that's bollocks - a lazy story someone came up with because Ed's from Chelmsford - and that he never really cared much for football at all before getting involved with United.

Yet others claim that he still doesn't care much for football (which is the story I personally find most plausible).
 

bringbackbebe

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On the financial side: Glazers have done well. Value of the club was 700m during their takeover & 4200m in 2019. That's a 15% compounded return on investment, which is insane by any standard. Revenues have risen, profits have been stable as well. They've taken dividends and cashed in on this to repay debts they loaded the club with. There's little not to be happy here.

On the footballing side: I doubt the Glazers care or are hands on with any of these decisions; they'd left it to Woody & his minions who have no clue. SAF had an hands-on approach and this lot had a free ride for a few years sipping wine & eating their prawn sandwich. I'd split this into 3 iterations:
Iteration 1) "Things will take care of itself" phase. Belief manager is going to take care of everything. Gave full control to Moyes & Van Gaal. Failed miserably - both were sub par and made large scale changes to a successful setup.
Iteration 2) "We can take care of things, manager knows nothing" phase. Under Mourinho they got involved in the footballing side quite a bit, blocked transfers, dictated transfer policy, did gimmicks with players for shirt sales, got involved in contract negotiation etc. There was a point when Mourinho wanted to boost defence and Woody refused thinking "we finished 2nd, we're fine and will win the title with Darmian and Rojo".
Iteration 3) "We're in deep shit, splashing cash will solve things" phase. Went on a panic mode and splashed insane cash on Maguire, AWB and multiple others instead of looking at value. Tied down people to insane contracts & repeated mistakes of trying to keep random players happy. Realized things needed to be done, so got Ole - who did a good job at rebooting the culture partially by setting some structure & revisiting the youth system. Hired a director of football. All of this backfired because Ole wasn't exactly a great coach as much as he is a general manager.

We are now in iteration 4. We realize we're no where in the frame of top clubs, we will soon start losing revenue if we continue this way & a massive restructure is required on the footballing side. Probably why they got an interim manager in with a clear vision of developing the long term football side of the business in. It'll give some time to think long term & draw up a plan by the summer to find a new path forward.
 
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The Corinthian

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Also it's not cheaper, if anything it's more expensive to renew and upgrade contracts then sell players after 3 years and bring players on similar contracts.
That’s just patently false.

Going to market is always a much more expensive option than renewing or hiring internally or what have you. It’d be the same in football.