Rio Ferdinand advises Harry Kane to move on

InLevyITrust

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Loaded question. If you're just talking PL then you can't overlook Shearer as he's the top scorer however undoubtedly Rooney and Drogba scored goals at the highest possible level, and led their teams to trophies, so for me were the better players.
I don't mean it to be loaded, and I don't mean it as a slight on Rooney (who I admire for so many reasons). However if Kane can reach the all time top scorer in the PL, especially with us, I cannot see how anyone can say he lacks/ed ambition.
 

Sandikan

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I don't mean it to be loaded, and I don't mean it as a slight on Rooney (who I admire for so many reasons). However if Kane can reach the all time top scorer in the PL, especially with us, I cannot see how anyone can say he lacks/ed ambition.
There's different levels of ambition aren't there. On a personal level, he can probably be as good as he can be at Tottenham, as per your scenario where he sets goals records.
But on a team level, of course there's a step up he can make.

He must know there's a real risk he won't win one pot, especially as Poch has been so flippant with the Fa and league cups.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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We don't have a chance to win the league, where did I say we have? Now you are back to a club can only be ambition by spending money :lol:. Kane is a big boy he can make his own choices. The title will be between Liverpool and City for at least the next 2 seasons.
What are you talking about?

I’m just saying the truth here that since 16/17 when you were closed to win the league, you have made no progress but declining & getting worse. The plan that you have been talking about has shown no progress but declining. And you have no money power. In order word. No plan to win, no money power to win but just happy with being in a top 4 instead of making improvement to challenge the league. No ambition but hoping for a miracle. Is that Levy’s plan? A hope for miracle? :lol:
 

InLevyITrust

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What are you talking about?

I’m just saying the truth here that since 16/17 when you were closed to win the league, you have made no progress but declining & getting worse. The plan that you have been talking about has shown no progress but declining. And you have no money power. In order word. No plan to win, no money power to win but just happy with being in a top 4 instead of making improvement to challenge the league. No ambition but hoping for a miracle. Is that Levy’s plan? A hope for miracle? :lol:
We built a stadium, we built a training ground infrastructure that was NEEDED to improve as a club, things wont happen over night for us as we are not bank rolled. The building of this infrastructure was required and of course effected our spending, we aren't just happy with top 4, but you need to be realistic. I don't see what you are finding so hard to grasp.
 

InLevyITrust

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There's different levels of ambition aren't there. On a personal level, he can probably be as good as he can be at Tottenham, as per your scenario where he sets goals records.
But on a team level, of course there's a step up he can make.

He must know there's a real risk he won't win one pot, especially as Poch has been so flippant with the Fa and league cups.
Agreed, I have said for a few years if Kane ever wanted to move on I would have no problems at all, even if it was this summer he has the ability to take that step up, I can only imagine how many he would score if his sole responsibility was to score. Having said that I would of course be gutted as you don't get many players these days with his ability playing at the club her clearly loves.
 

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We built a stadium, we built a training ground infrastructure that was NEEDED to improve as a club, things wont happen over night for us as we are not bank rolled. The building of this infrastructure was required and of course effected our spending, we aren't just happy with top 4, but you need to be realistic. I don't see what you are finding so hard to grasp.
How is relying on those new stadium & training ground infrastructure will make progress to win the league after your best 16/17 season in the league?
 

InLevyITrust

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How is relying on those new stadium & training ground infrastructure will make progress to win the league after your best 16/17 season in the league?
New stadium = more money (something you said we needed)

Better training ground = better quality of youth player (not having to rely so much on buying youth, hopefully)

Bothare things you said we lacked. you are either incredibly thick or a WUM.
 

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New stadium = more money (something you said we needed)

Better training ground = better quality of youth player (not having to rely so much on buying youth, hopefully)

Bothare things you said we lacked. you are either incredibly thick or a WUM.
It was rhetorical question.

In order word the current level ambition between United & Spurs are different. Our ambition is to improve as a team to win major trophy while your ambition is to improve as a club first and after it’s succeed, then you can start thinking about winning major trophy. Thus why our ambition is right now higher than yours.
 

Sandikan

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Agreed, I have said for a few years if Kane ever wanted to move on I would have no problems at all, even if it was this summer he has the ability to take that step up, I can only imagine how many he would score if his sole responsibility was to score. Having said that I would of course be gutted as you don't get many players these days with his ability playing at the club her clearly loves.
It'd be interesting to see how many he scored elsewhere.

However, remember with Andy Cole. He was built around at Newcastle, in a way he wasn't at United, so never hit his Newcastle high again, despite being a better player later on.

Kane at City. Would he score more than he does at Tottenham? In theory yes, but in reality with so many other goals in the building, not being "The" main player, and some Pep rotation, maybe not?
 

InLevyITrust

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It was rhetorical question.

In order word the current level ambition between United & Spurs are different. Our ambition is to improve as a team to win major trophy while your ambition is to improve as a club first and after it’s succeed, then you can start thinking about winning major trophy. Thus why our ambition is right now higher than yours.
What point is ambition without a plan to execute it?
 

InLevyITrust

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It'd be interesting to see how many he scored elsewhere.

However, remember with Andy Cole. He was built around at Newcastle, in a way he wasn't at United, so never hit his Newcastle high again, despite being a better player later on.

Kane at City. Would he score more than he does at Tottenham? In theory yes, but in reality with so many other goals in the building, not being "The" main player, and some Pep rotation, maybe not?
I feel at City he would be the main point of attack though, he wouldn't be asked to drop back of have to drop back to get the ball. Its not unusual to see Kane having to drop back to the "start of the final third" in order to get the ball. Also Kane is great at the press and while's Poch team press seems to have dropped off Pepe's is outstanding. Again I feel Kane is being deployed the same way Fergie did Rooney, he is being asked to be a link up player/fill in the gaps player and a goal scorer rather than telling him to stay high up the pitch.
 

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What point is ambition without a plan to execute it?
True but that’s back to the conclusion of the discussion of all we have been discussing we can say that our ambition right now is higher than yours.

Plan especially very long term plan like yours aim to improve as a club first before improving the team can always fail midway. A good example is arsenal ever since they built a new stadium.
 

InLevyITrust

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True but that’s back to the conclusion of the discussion of all we have been discussing we can say that our ambition right now is higher than yours.

Plan especially very long term plan like yours aim to improve as a club first before improving the team can always fail midway. A good example is arsenal ever since they built a new stadium.
I would say right now our short term ambition is the same, unless you truly think you have a shot at he title in the next 2-3 seasons.
 

Sandikan

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I feel at City he would be the main point of attack though, he wouldn't be asked to drop back of have to drop back to get the ball. Its not unusual to see Kane having to drop back to the "start of the final third" in order to get the ball. Also Kane is great at the press and while's Poch team press seems to have dropped off Pepe's is outstanding. Again I feel Kane is being deployed the same way Fergie did Rooney, he is being asked to be a link up player/fill in the gaps player and a goal scorer rather than telling him to stay high up the pitch.
Fair enough, you obvs watch him week out week out, whereas I don't.

But I can't see Kane being used like Rooney was! At times he was totally sacrificed out wide, or deep.
(Not "That" often, before someone shows up saying it's a Rooney "myth" :lol: )
 

InLevyITrust

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Fair enough, you obvs watch him week out week out, whereas I don't.

But I can't see Kane being used like Rooney was! At times he was totally sacrificed out wide, or deep.
(Not "That" often, before someone shows up saying it's a Rooney "myth" :lol: )
Agreed Kane has never been pushed out wide.
 

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I would say right now our short term ambition is the same, unless you truly think you have a shot at he title in the next 2-3 seasons.
Your ambition atm is to improve as a club before going to improve as a team to win major trophy. While ours is to improve as a team to win major trophy. How is that the same?

Ours could take 2-3 seasons minimum if we can sign the right players and we have the money, a good example is Liverpool since Klopp took in charge.

You have less money now due to after spending it on the stadium. You could take 5-10 seasons minimum to build your team by either spending or relying on academy players. A good example is arsenal since they built a new stadium.
 

InLevyITrust

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Your ambition atm is to improve as a club before going to improve as a team to win major trophy. While ours is to improve as a team to win major trophy. How is that the same?

Ours could take 2-3 seasons minimum if we can sign the right players and we have the money, a good example is Liverpool since Klopp took in charge.

You have less money now due to after spending it on the stadium. You could take 5-10 seasons minimum. A good example is arsenal since they built a new stadium.
Arsenals problem wasn't so much the stadium more the owner didn't want to spend and had a manager who didn't want to spend either.

Your ambition has been that for 5 years, but seemly you have made no real progress in the league, spending millions and having a manager that a lot of your support want out, I feel you have quite a rosy outlook on your prospects. Granted you have won some trophies I would like, but league wise and as a squad its going backwards.
 

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I would say right now our short term ambition is the same, unless you truly think you have a shot at he title in the next 2-3 seasons.
'Our ambition is higher' people say... when our ceo famously states results on the pitch have little impact, when we have historically failed to invest from a position of strength, we now have an out of his depth rookie as manager and we release info saying we don't expect to challenge for a minimum of 3 years. Yeah our ambitions are really higher than yours indeed!
 

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Arsenals problem wasn't so much the stadium more the owner didn't want to spend and had a manager who didn't want to spend either.

Your ambition has been that for 5 years, but seemly you have made no real progress in the league, spending millions and having a manager that a lot of your support want out, I feel you have quite a rosy outlook on your prospects. Granted you have won some trophies I would like, but league wise and as a squad its going backwards.
I don’t think you understand that build a winning team isn’t easy. Thus why I used Liverpool & Klopp as a good example of what happened if we can get the right players. So far three of our signings have been positive to start with & we have make massive improvement in defense.

While you are not even in the stage of building a winning team, you are still in the process of improving your club and will have potential to take even longer.
 

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I don’t think you understand that build a winning team isn’t easy. Thus why I used Liverpool & Klopp as a good example.

While you are not even in the stage of building a winning team, you are still in the process of improving your club.
The poster above you seems to get my point.... as you seem not to have. How the hell do I not know that building a team isn't easy? :houllier:, spending the money you have over the last 5 seasons you have to agree it would have been a lot better spent. Klopp and Liverpool have spent good money on VERY good players, that's the difference.
 

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The poster above you seems to get my point.... as you seem not to have. How the hell do I not know that building a team isn't easy? :houllier:, spending the money you have over the last 5 seasons you have to agree it would have been a lot better spent. Klopp and Liverpool have spent good money on VERY good players, that's the difference.
Either you are incredibly thick or WUM.

My point is that your current stage is about improving as a club. While our stage has passed that, we are in the stage of improving as a team.

There are more walls blocking your path in the future than blocking our path. Money to earn first after that new stadium. Developing players still the beginning after improving the facility of training. Ageing players like Vertonghen, Toby and etc need to be replaced and signing other position as improvement of the squad.
 

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So you think Tottenham dont want to win trophies or work hard to improve? United has not been close to winning the league or CL since Sir Alex left. There is nothing that indicates basef on last 4-5 years performances that United are gonna win anything big next 2-3 years. You want Pogba to waste his prime on United working hard to improve with the vision of Woodward and the Glazers? Im just saying you cant tell Kane to leave and not do the same for Pogba based on footballing reason.
I think everyone wants to win, but not everyone will spend the money to try and get there. Tottenham has been very close and with a little more investment they could have been there. As for Pogba, I don't care what he does. If he wants to leave, he can leave. He's not the guy to bring us back to glory anyways. We need great players who can lead by example and the only example Pogba gives is how to not give a shit...
 

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Either you are incredibly thick or WUM.

My point is that your current stage is about improving your club. While our stage has passed that, we are in the stage of improving our team.

There are more walls blocking your path in the future than blocking our path. Money to earn first after that new stadium. Developing players still the beginning after improving the facility of training. Ageing players need to be replaced and signing other position as improvement of the squad. Long way to go mate.
:lol:, our stadium s built, the facilities completed. We are both onto improving our squads, we both need work. How am I a WUM or think you are contradicting yourself, we spent nearly £150m in the summer. We were going after both Dybala and Fernandes (he had agreed terms). The training ground was completed 7 years ago, what are you talking about? Aging players? We have Verts and Toby you have Mata and Matic. Question, are you in a better position for the league than you were 5 years ago?
 

Sandikan

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Either you are incredibly thick or WUM.

My point is that your current stage is about improving as a club. While our stage has passed that, we are in the stage of improving as a team.

There are more walls blocking your path in the future than blocking our path. Money to earn first after that new stadium. Developing players still the beginning after improving the facility of training. Ageing players like Vertonghen, Toby and etc need to be replaced and signing other position as improvement of the squad.
Listening to you, I'm now confident that we'll be back to winning ways, as it's just that tiny job of finding the right players that's stopping us.

Whereas Tottenham have to "build their club".

Phew.
 

InLevyITrust

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Listening to you, I'm now confident that we'll be back to winning ways, as it's just that tiny job of finding the right players that's stopping us.

Whereas Tottenham have to "build their club".

Phew.
:lol: Im glad someone else is as baffled as me.
 

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:lol:, our stadium s built, the facilities completed. We are both onto improving our squads, we both need work. How am I a WUM or think you are contradicting yourself, we spent nearly £150m in the summer. We were going after both Dybala and Fernandes (he had agreed terms). The training ground was completed 7 years ago, what are you talking about? Aging players? We have Verts and Toby you have Mata and Matic. Question, are you in a better position for the league than you were 5 years ago?
Your ambition is to improve as a club not as a team which clearly you are struggling to accept it. After spending massive on the stadium, you need a time to earn the money to build your team. Let’s face reality that the reason you spent 150m because you spent zero penny the previous summer, those are money from the last 2 summer budget. If by making new stadium will means you can finally start thinking about splashing money without thinking about earning it back first, any club would have done the same thing.

That’s not the question of what we have been discussing. The discussion has been the ambition of the club not what the clubs have achieved.

We have the money to spend to make improvement. Can we get it right that’s another story.

You still need to earn the money after spending massive on the stadium.
 

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I think if Fergie was still here as United manager, he would have broke the bank for Kane and he would be a current United player. He loves his great strikers from the PL the great man
 

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Listening to you, I'm now confident that we'll be back to winning ways, as it's just that tiny job of finding the right players that's stopping us.

Whereas Tottenham have to "build their club".

Phew.
There are more into it obviously. The board as well is an issue. But it’s not like Levy has done enough justice to back Poch.

And my point was;

We have the money to spend to make improvement to winning wan. Can we get it right that’s another story.

Spurs still need to earn the money after spending massive on the stadium before even thinking about spending the money to make improvement.
 

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Kane needs to ask himself: "Will I be content if, when I retire, the pinnacle of my career was losing in a CL Final?"
 

InLevyITrust

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I think if Fergie was still here as United manager, he would have broke the bank for Kane and he would be a current United player. He loves his great strikers from the PL the great man
No doubt he would have tried and probably if we were the shite back then he would have jumped pretty quick.
 

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City don’t make 100m signings. Their record is still around 55m.

They have a fantastic spine so better for them to go for younger talents to integrate along side.
Their records previously was Laporte (£57m, Jan '18), then Mahrez (£60m, 2018) and the latest is Rodri (£68m). They will probably break the record again next summer (maybe £80m-ish player, or £100m max).
And yes Kane won't join City.
 

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Their records previously was Laporte (£57m, Jan '18), then Mahrez (£60m, 2018) and the latest is Rodri (£68m). They will probably break the record again next summer (maybe £80m-ish player, or £100m max).
And yes Kane won't join City.
68m in this market isn’t that bad for a player like Rodri. Especially in his position which is a rarity to find a top player in. Everyone knew that was a weak position for City.

Just saying City’s recruitment is too good to throw 100m+ on one player (not until the market inflates significantly more at least). They invest much smarter that many clubs.
 

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I think there are 2 sides to this, obviously as an outsider you see him wanting to stay as him lacking ambition while from a Spurs point of view he wants to stay and make Spurs successful, if you want my honest opinion it just comes across as a salty comment from an opposition fan.
He's extremely ambitious, hence the cold, blank expression on his face as he marched straight off the pitch after Bayern (among other notable recent losses). The opinion of anyone who doesn't know this about him can be safely discarded because it's hardly a secret.

He's spoken openly about how much he hates losing a single game and how big losses haunt him. He's just not the kind of pussy who falls to the floor and cries about it. Probably one of the reasons he's captain of England and vice for Spurs.

It should be clear to anyone with a modicum of emotional intelligence that he's absolutely sick of Spurs underperforming, especially when the defence is massively culpable these days. He's always said he wants to win the biggest trophies: preferably with Spurs with the implicit suffix of "but elsewhere if necessary". And it seems to me like he's finally realising that necessary is arriving.
 

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I don't mean it to be loaded, and I don't mean it as a slight on Rooney (who I admire for so many reasons). However if Kane can reach the all time top scorer in the PL, especially with us, I cannot see how anyone can say he lacks/ed ambition.
I'd agree but that dream died after the Poch+Kane era officially ended on Tuesday night. I don't see a way back for Spurs that doesn't involve selfishly wasting the rest of Kane's career on a painful, trophyless rebuild.
 

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Kane needs to ask himself: "Will I be content if, when I retire, the pinnacle of my career was losing in a CL Final?"
He won't be, he already knows he won't be, and he's already publicly said he won't be. The idea that he's unlikely to leave is just bluster and obfuscation on the part of hopeful Spurs fans. I'd give out shorter than even odds on Kane actively looking for other options by summer 2021 unless something drastic changes. And as a fan of Kane but not a fan of any particular club, I'm looking forward to it.