Robbie Savage: Man Utd are the real deal - whoever finishes above them next season will win the title

3KDré

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How there'll be a lot more quality in the league because we and Chelsea improve ? The bottom 10 who have become mostly fodders for top 1-2 aren't going to change. This is the mean reason you need to get +90 points to win the league, because the majority of the league have become trash in comparison to the top teams above.
Sorry, that was the wrong phrase to use.

What I’m trying to say is a A lot of the games we have drawn this season have been because we haven’t had enough quality on the pitch (mainly due to injuries and lack of depth). With our first XI as it is now we should have no problems against these teams anymore provided we get a few more additions to account for injuries. This will gain us a lot more points next season.

I think if we do get these additions and Chelsea do get theirs, not only will we see an improvement in winning the games against lesser teams more consistently but I could see the top 4/6 dropping more points against each other because each of the teams will simply have better teams.
 

el3mel

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Sorry, that was the wrong phrase to use.

What I’m trying to say is a A lot of the games we have drawn this season have been because we haven’t had enough quality on the pitch (mainly due to injuries and lack of depth). With our first XI as it is now we should have no problems against these teams anymore provided we get a few more additions to account for injuries. This will gain us a lot more points next season.

I think if we do get these additions and Chelsea do get theirs, not only will we see an improvement in winning the games against lesser teams more consistently but I could see the top 4/6 dropping more points against each other because each of the teams will simply have better teams.
Fair points. I agree about this.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Manchester United is about challenging title not going for top 4. The number of goals we scored & number of goals we conceded are not comparable to Liverpool which reflects to the consistency difference between us and Liverpool. If we look at Liverpool & City, they are capable to score between 80-95 goals per season, we are nowhere near to reach that. And team who wins the league normally only conceded between 20-30 goals. If we want to challenge, we need to close that goals difference.

It's only possible to close the goals difference if Greenwood can continue his form and end up scoring 15-20 league goals next season and if we also can add Sancho to our squad and performing.

We only conceded 33 goals so far. Not far away but still need improvement. De Gea with less mistakes & a new centre back to upgrade Lindelof can close the gaps. And the last thing is bit of luck from long term injury on our key players will be nice.
 

gajender

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What would make people believe we are ready to properly challenge for the league next season if we win our last 4 league matches along with one of the cups would they be confident ,but we still have to factor in playing without fans how much of a role it has played in our form currently would we be still so good in our away games once supporters are allowed back in the Stadiums so many ananswered questions but one thing is for certain we finally have a team who if they realise their full potential they could be something special.
 

E-mal

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He is a bellend, so whatever he says means nothing to me. Also, feck Kane we've got Tony Martial and RVP, we are fine.
 

Passitlikescholes

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Sorry, that was the wrong phrase to use.

What I’m trying to say is a A lot of the games we have drawn this season have been because we haven’t had enough quality on the pitch (mainly due to injuries and lack of depth). With our first XI as it is now we should have no problems against these teams anymore provided we get a few more additions to account for injuries. This will gain us a lot more points next season.

I think if we do get these additions and Chelsea do get theirs, not only will we see an improvement in winning the games against lesser teams more consistently but I could see the top 4/6 dropping more points against each other because each of the teams will simply have better teams.
I think it's also important to consider the following points

A. City had an injury crisis this season that dropped them a whole bunch of points. Liverpool were not really impacted by that the last 2 seasons and its bound to come back eventually (from a pure statistics point of view)

B. Liverpool sure as hell better hope they don't lose mane, for me, personally, he's the key player who breaks down stubborn defences

C. With more competition, there's more pressure in every game. There's more slip ups. Having a competitive top 4 throws a lot of spanners in the works.

D. Also I think this season some of the teams in the lower half of the table have shown how to pressure Liverpool and get results from them. If not for some rather outrageous incompetence in front of goals, liverpool were dropping points against some of them, ie other teams have a blue print to now follow
 
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Strelok

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He could be right.We need 3 quality additions this summer to seriously challenge. Defender included.
And DDG must find his old self back or we'd need a new keeper. History has proved how important a keeper is if you're for any big silverware.

Anyway this talk of us challenging for the title is too premature. Let's see how we'd fare in the summer, and other teams as well.
 

tenpoless

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This is football journalism. You could literally pay one of the transfer muppets here and get a similar quality article out of them.
 

tenpoless

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He is a bellend, so whatever he says means nothing to me. Also, feck Kane we've got Tony Martial and RVP, we are fine.
RVP + RVN* rolled into one according to @Strelok. Thus was born ManUnited World Cup winning squad.
 

hungrywing

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I know there's been a lot of OTT praise for our periods of great form post SAF, but we've won 4 straight games by 3 goals or more. It's amazing that this hasn't been done before considering the great teams throughout the Premier League.

It's hard not to feel good about our chances to challenge provided we strengthen more in the summer.

I don't think anyone who followed the Prem thought Chelsea weren't winning the league in 2006-2007 after they brought in Sheva and Ballack. We just lost RVN and only brought in Carrick.

And we ended up pipping them to the title.

You never know.
Amen. Next season is the type of season where winners are forged.

Wouldn't be surprised if internally Ole has shown the players the 'post-Bruno' table and laid out that next season is when the entire staff - not just the players but the coaches guiding those players as well - learn what it takes to maintain that over a season.

I don't mind outsiders making those knee-jerk calls. As long as we're not getting ahead of ourselves it's fine. Mind, didn't read the quotes in full.

In terms of stats I'd like to see us concede less than 30, score 75+, reach 80+ points. That would be healthy. And not lose at home. The season after I'd expect us to have a very realistic chance.
For what it's worth, post-Bruno we're on pace for 85-88 goals scored, 16-18 goals conceded, 85-90 points over a 38-game season.

Accounting for a ten percent decrease in projected performance (injuries, dips in form etc.) that's still 78-80 goals scored, 18-20 conceded, 78-81 points. Not too far off.
 

Beanz

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If things go wrong(they won't) the same people will tell everyone down the road how they knew it would happen.

Personally, with the squad depth we have the only way we win the title this coming season is if we're extremely lucky with injuries. However, the season after if we manage to be able to sub bruno without losing the quality, finding a solid, reliable replacement for matic and sorting out the RW once and for all, then we're in business.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Setting up for disappointment by having too much hope?

:drool: Look, I'm excited as well, but not totally confident this long great +Bruno run will extend to the next season.
Great if yes, but won't lose sleep if not.
It's true that if we maintain this great form (with expected few losses and draws), the chances are high we'll win.
 

Berbasbullet

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It’s always hyperbole in football everything’s either on fire or amazing, we will lose a few games and the house will be on fire soon enough.

Truth is we have reason to be cautiously optimistic.
 

SilentWitness

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@Adnan and @Green_Red

I understand where you're both coming from but I don't think you can ignore the rest of your squad. Let me put it in a different way.

I think City have the best squad in the league for two reasons. 1. The reduction in quality from first xi to second xi is the least in the league. 2. All players in the squad seem to fit the system they play fairly well.

I'd say that the 2nd best on those criteria is probably Liverpool but they have more reliance than City on their first xi. There is a bigger gulf in quality between their first xi and squad and most players in their squad seem to fit the system or at least understand their role within it.

I think United are behind both of these sides on that criteria. You heavily lean on your first xi which is why you've started the same side in a row with no changes despite games being close together, you are all desperate for Fernandes not to be out injured because of the influence he has had and you can see the clear distinction between the first half of the season and the second half of the season. I also think that in regards to the big dip in quality from first xi to second xi, you don't have many players in your squad that suits what Ole wants to do and I don't blame him for that necessarily. It happens sometimes when managers change formations and they've been rotated within these different systems. Replace these squad players with players that are better quality + fit your system more and you have a great chance of challenging.

If we were looking at first teams alone I'd agree that you'd be challenging but that would require a huge deal of luck in terms of injury/suspensions which can happen but the probability is low.
 

Strelok

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If we were looking at first teams alone I'd agree that you'd be challenging but that would require a huge deal of luck in terms of injury/suspensions which can happen but the probability is low.
People talk a lot about what we need to do first in order to challenge next season but imo it's really simple.

Liverpool basically had their first XI fully fit for two entire seasons. I don't believe in that kind of luck so imo what we need to do first is steal their entire medical staff. Problem fixed :devil:
 

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In my opinion, we will finish 3rd next year, and for me that would represent a big step up and give us a great platform to build from.

1st: Liverpool

Van Dijk, Mane, Salah, Firminho, Henderson and Wijnaldum are all bang in what you would consider their sporting prime i.e. 28-30. Key squad players like Lovren, Matic and Milner are at an age where they're certainly not going to get better and will have started to decline. They have a couple of players who you would say are approaching their prime (Robertson, Allisson, Keita, Fabinho) and a few young players who are still improving (TAA, Gomez)

That gives me optimism in many ways for the future, because I remember reading an article about how Michael Edwards had made signing a bunch of players who would peak at the same time a priority. That strategy obviously paid of handsomely but it does also logically mean those players will all starting declining at the same time.

Now, people get confused when talking about 'prime' and 'past it'. In no way am I saying that Salah, Mane, VvD etc...will hit 29/30 and become bad players. However, the laws of nature dictate they will very steadily decline bit by bit, % point by % point over the next 18-mnths. They will also start to pick up niggling injuries and not be able to play at the intensity Klopp demands three times a week.

All of that being said, I do think they will get one more 'world-class' season out of this squad and I think they will win it again next year with a virtually unchanged XI.

2. Man City

I think they have been really, really poor this year. They have actually lost more games than us which I think is a disgrace considering the money they have spent consistently year-on-year and the number of games we've been forced to give to the likes of Pereira, Lingard, James, Mata etc....this season. Add to that the fact we have been without Martial, Pogba, McTominay and Rashford for long periods and have added Bruno Fernandes/Mason Greenwood to the starting XI, I think that 11pt gap will all but disappear next season.

They look like they are about to start having problems in the CF position as I don't think Jesus is the level required to adequately substitute for Aguero and they obviously need a CB. All of that being said, when it all clicks, they do have a great side and with one or two good signings they could be a different team next year.

Highly, highly controversial opinion I know but I'm not sure Pep actually helps them at times. They've underachieved on balance across his time at the club in my opinion.

3. United

Being the wise Oracle that I am, I basically predicted how this season would go for us down to a tee. I have been right about absolutely everything (as usual)....please feel free to go back through the threads I have posted and confirm this :-)

As I stated at the start of the season, we struggled initially to get over the clear-out of inadequate but experienced/useful players. However, as I also predicted, we have really grown into the season by sticking with talented young players and making some great signings along the way.

Greenwood will be one of the best players in the world by 22/23. Fernandes and Pogba are approaching their prime. Rashford and Martial are improving all the time. We finally have good options in CM. For all our apparent defensive woes, we don't actually concede many goals, especially against top sides where we can sit a bit deeper.

Again, my caveat to all of this is that our squad is still very light in some areas. If we lost Martial, Maguire or Fernandes, for example, I think we would struggle disproportionately. Not because I think they are necessarily our BEST players (they may be, they may not be depending on individual opinions), however, I do think we lack genuine replacements for them and the job they do in our squad

Also, our goalkeeper is beyond useless. Zero command of his area, zero ball-playing skills, scared of his own shadow/the ball and reflexes on the wane. If we stick with Dave next year, it will cost us net 10 goals. Ole needs to be brave and go with Henderson, who is yet to prove he can do the job long term but deserves the chance to do so and can't possibly be any worse!

4. Chelsea

I'm not buying the hype around Chelsea at all. They have been rubbish this year and I expect them to be pretty rubbish again next year without major surgery in the transfer window. I couldn't give a monkeys if they have signed Werner or Zayich....their defence and GK are well below the standard required. Since all of this talk started about them challenging for the title next year, on the back of the agreement with Werner, they have conceded 5 goals against West Ham and Palace. Seriously, that's not going to get you anywhere near a challenge. I expect that situation will only get worse as well as the likes of Rudiger, Azpi, Alonso and Kante are going to be steadily declining (probably are already).

I am also not convinced by Frank Lampard. I don't care about credentials and I don't think a manager has to be a tactical genius (he has coaches and analysts for that) but I've yet to see ANY evidence he can set a team up to be greater than the sum of it's parts. I've seen it with Ole many times. I've even seen it already with Mikel Arteta (I was tempted to put Arsenal 4th then gave my head a shake!) but I've seen NOTHING from Frank at all to suggest he's a top football manager.

Again, the positive is Pulisic looks fantastic and they do have two new players coming into the squad with decent reputations. IF they can conjure up two full backs, two CMs, two CBs and a GK from somewhere I might think about bumping them to 2nd/3rd

5. Arsenal

Mikel Arteta will do a good job there, I can see it already. They're still rubbish right now though and he can't fix that in one summer!
 

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It's not beyond the realms of possibility that United can challenge next season. People talk about the first half of the season but it was a completely different team then. Blind Freddy could see that United would struggle to score with that attacking line up.

The strength of the current United team is the front 5. In the first half of the season, Bruno wasn't at the club, Pogba was injured and both Martial and Rashford also missed lots of games through injury. Greenwood was developing and is a far more effective player now.

Can this team challenge for the title next season? Why not? I'd be amazed if they don't add more quality this summer and the defence (while it is shaky) is improving.

All of this talk of needing to make up 30 points is nonsense. United and Chelsea are improving. It's easy to win game after game when you're 20-30 points clear. When it's tight and the pressure is on, it's much harder to maintain a run like that.
 

r0663664

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Not next season. If we make 4-6 quality signing over the next 2 seasons then we will be pushing in 2022. This is as realistic as we can get.
 

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@Adnan and @Green_Red

I think United are behind both of these sides on that criteria. You heavily lean on your first xi which is why you've started the same side in a row with no changes despite games being close together, you are all desperate for Fernandes not to be out injured because of the influence he has had and you can see the clear distinction between the first half of the season and the second half of the season.
I broadly agree with you and have just made a similar point myself, however, what I would say it that it depends WHO gets injured really. It's not that our squad is poor, far from it, it's that it's robust in some areas and wafer, wafer thin in others.

I fear if Fernandes, Maguire or Martial got injured we would struggle disproportionately because we don't have another player who can do their job on the pitch.
 

Passitlikescholes

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So I'm going to throw out this idea. If we sign Sancho, then we have 5 dedicated attacking players to slot into 4 positions.

I believe that Martial and Sancho would be able to slot into Bruno's position (when rotating or required) and then Mason either slots up front or RW.

Also gives the option of maybe slotting Bruno into Pogbas position.

I mean this purely as options to rotate and rest across a full long season.
 

tomaldinho1

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I mean he's technically not wrong - if we finish 2nd or 19th a team above will have won the title. It is stupidly premature though - I can see City fighting it out with Liverpool and then Chelsea & United fighting for 3rd and 4th. That's a big improvement on recent years in fairness and signs of a return to the PL having a genuine top four again which hasn't been the case for years.
 

Amerifan

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Our starting XI can compete with anyone. But we struggle after just a few injuries. Before we can mount a serious title challenge we need more depth.
 

tombombadil

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Too soon to talk about next season. I would think the focus now should be on finishing this season strong. If we qualify for CL, we can hope for better transfers to make the team more resilient to injuries, which will hopefully get the team ready to challenge next season. One step at a time.
 

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Why are all these pundits so ignorant? First thing i noticed was his lack of respect for Martial's impact on the team this season. There's not a mention of his name anywhere. When he talks about Ole's man management and our improvement as a team, how can he leave Tony out? He fits our team like a glove, and brings out the best in Rashford/Greenwood. He already has all the talent in the world, now he's adding the dirty work to his game, our 2nd goal v Villa highlights that. Plus at 24, he still has much room for improvement. His evolution as a No.9 is scary. As if Ole would actually entertain replacing him! :lol:
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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It’s a bit premature like some of the other posters have pointed out...We need to strengthen at the back...I think we need another CB and a LB who can really compete with Shaw....We need a defensive playmaker who can come in for Matic and do a good job...There’s still work to be done before we become the real deal,but for the first time in 7 years it really feels like we are building towards something....It really feels like this squad is on the verge of something special...
 

marc1_007

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Why are all these pundits so ignorant? First thing i noticed was his lack of respect for Martial's impact on the team this season. There's not a mention of his name anywhere. When he talks about Ole's man management and our improvement as a team, how can he leave Tony out? He fits our team like a glove, and brings out the best in Rashford/Greenwood. He already has all the talent in the world, now he's adding the dirty work to his game, our 2nd goal v Villa highlights that. Plus at 24, he still has much room for improvement. His evolution as a No.9 is scary. As if Ole would actually entertain replacing him! :lol:
Just wait and see during Mourinho's whole tenure at Spurs , how the media will continue to link Kane to Utd because his form will drop and he will be lucky to get 15 goals a season while, Martial will keep thriving in the Utd system and these pundits will want Kane to be the one to be on the end of the chances we create, but they will never take in account that Martial is a big part of the whole creativity of the team, he already has a near telepathic chemistry with Rashford, Pogba and Bruno and he is developing one with Greenwood.
 

wolvored

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Everyone is getting too ahead at this moment. We will probably need around 95+ points to win the league ( looking at this and last season) and don't think we are ready for that next season. We need to be incredibly lucky with injuries considering there is no break between this and next season and form will also come into play at some point. We are definitely on right track though and with some better quality depth and upgrade in some starter position, we will be able to mount a serious title challenge in 21-22 season. I will be happy with easy top 3 finish and deep run in next champions league next year with a cup win as a bonus. And About Kane we don't need him not in this universe nor on any other alternatives. This agenda against Martial by British pundit and press is absolutely tedious.
That would probably be the aim of Ole and the team as well. Anything better would be a massive gain. Use that as a step to get 2/3 better players in next summer ready for a proper assault on the league.
 

The Brown Bull

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Robbie Savage?
Yeah right.
City and Liverpool are comfortably ahead of us.
Chelsea are at our level.
As of now of course.
A centre back, a winger, a midfielder and a striker might change it.
 

Buster15

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Robbie Savage?
Yeah right.
City and Liverpool are comfortably ahead of us.
Chelsea are at our level.
As of now of course.
A centre back, a winger, a midfielder and a striker might change it.
He is little better than the village idiot. Even when it comes to football.

I am more optimistic than for ages. And most importantly enjoying watching United play.

We are not far off but the points gap is huge.
 

RooneyLegend

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We should be competing next season. A few signings would get us right where we need to be.
 

eire-red

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Savage is jumping the gun, but in fairness Alisson and Fabinho, along with the signing of van Dijk the Winter window before, transformed Liverpool from 4/5th place in the League to contenders, missing out by a point to an incredible City team.

If we could get similar type signings in calibre, then I don't see why we can't at least push to break that stranglehold that City and Liverpool have on the top 2 places. I feel we'll be comfortably ahead of Chelsea as we have 3 proven PL goalscorers in Rashford, Martial and Greenwood (early days but you can see he's a natural goalscorer), whereas Werner is a bit of an unknown (looks like a fantastic player, but Bundesliga is nowhere near the PL), along with the ageing Giroud and loss of Willian (jury is still out on Abraham for me). They also lack that WC quality we have with Bruno and Pogba in midfield.

I don't know why he has thrown Kane into the mix, I feel like the Harry Kane to United ship sailed about 3/4 years ago, and a part of me actually feels Ole wouldn't swap him for Martial in the current squad, the fluidity of the front 3 is one of the pivotal components in our style of play, and Harry Kane can't replicate that style. He also looks to be entering an early decline, has lost that degree of pace and physicality he had due to injuries.

Look, I'm not saying I agree with Savage at all, far from it. There are still too many question marks around this team. But given the current form of the squad, if we signed Sancho, Koulibaly and a top CDM in the mould of Ruben Neves then I would be very disappointed if we were only looking to cement a top 4 spot.

DDG
AWB Koulibaly Maguire Shaw
Pogba Neves Bruno
Sancho Martial Rashford/Greenwood

That team can 100% challenge for the league. So yeah, I get what Savage is saying, we're only 2/3 players off. Still, its early days to be making these kind of claims. Let's just secure CL football once more, and become relevant again.

We've been in the wilderness far too long, but for the first time in a long time, there's daylight ahead.