Moby
Dick
Rashford, Aubameyang, Jimenez, Vardy are all comfortably better.How many strikers in the PL are better than him, apart from Kane and Aguero?
Rashford, Aubameyang, Jimenez, Vardy are all comfortably better.How many strikers in the PL are better than him, apart from Kane and Aguero?
This made me chuckle.Well firstly, he doesn’t. 56 goals and 34 in 175 matches is less per game than Bergkamp’s 87 goals and 94 assists in 315 matches.
Secondly, wobble your fecking head.
Actually, some of his best seasons when it comes to numbers was when he played alongside Ronaldo.who really “overates” him? He is great for their team and thats all that matters. Maybe if Salah/Mane were not there he could score more and stand out more?
For years people said Benzema was shite and needed to be replaced. Ronaldo leaves and all of the sudden Benzema starts to get the numbers.
As is Martial.Rashford, Aubameyang, Jimenez, Vardy are all comfortably better.
He is a completely different striker than all of them. The role that he plays is far more critical for his team than what any of them doesRashford, Aubameyang, Jimenez, Vardy are all comfortably better.
Salah, Mane, Gabriel Jesus, Vardy, Aubameyang, Rashford, SonHow many strikers in the PL are better than him, apart from Kane and Aguero?
Yeah don't buy that rubbish. All of them are hardworking players who contribute off the ball. Firmino isn't some unique never seen before forward because he has good work rate. None of those names would have embarrassing goal returns like Firmino has had this season though despite his team steam rolling the league.He is a completely different striker than all of them. The role that he plays is far more critical for his team than what any of them does
I think Martial and Jimenez are the two strikers in the league currently who aren't exactly elite but would work perfectly and better than Firmino in this Liverpool side.He is a completely different striker than all of them. The role that he plays is far more critical for his team than what any of them does
That's because his replacements are the likes of Origi.we’re a better side with him there than we are when he’s not
But based on the way this thread is going, Firmino is rubbish so it shouldn’t make a difference as long as Salah & Mane are there.That's because his replacements are the likes of Origi.
So if Firmino didn’t miss so many chances, Mané and Salah would score less?I don't think Mane or Salah would score as much with a more natural striker like Aguero or Kane upfront. Either Mane and Salah output will decrease or the strikers will.
Pep said the same thing during the documentary when talking about Liverpools front three. He talked about how Salah plays as a number 9 with Firmino going to the wing.
If you have a more natural striker who isn't wiling to move across the front three as much, then Salah/Mane won't be able to move into the striker position as often and therefore not be in those goalscoring positions.
And Greenwood.As is Martial.
Agreed.And Greenwood.
It's quite good alright.Bobby no goals has to be the best disparaging nickname in football.
I just love saying it to be honestBobby no goals has to be the best disparaging nickname in football.
He's having a poor (individual) season.So if Firmino didn’t miss so many chances, Mané and Salah would score less?
https://understat.com/player/482@Buchan is probably right about him suffering more because of how we play now (even if he overstates the hoof ball stuff).
In 17/18 he scored 27 goals with 17 assists in all competitions which is a phenomenal output.
Then in 18/19 Klopp started to focus our creativity through the full backs. Firmino’s numbers dropped to 16 goals and 8 assists. Klopp’s switch to more direct football is probably due to how we struggled earlier on in his time at Liverpool against deep defensive set ups (similar to how Burnley played yesterday). Teams squeeze the pitch and stay deep/compact giving Mane & Salah no room to operate. Having the option to play balls over the top can open up the space for Mane & Salah to run onto. Most full backs aren’t as fast as either of them either but I think we focus that tactic more on our right than we do on the left.
Firmino suffers with this because he doesn’t have the pace to run in behind, so he comes deeper for the ball and also to try and open space by pulling an opponent out with him. He’s become a fourth midfielder now and his numbers have suffered as a result. It’d be interesting to see a heat map of where his shots are from. They’re probably not in statistically ‘good’ places to have a shot on goal, although he’s missed some sitters this season.
I think it’s also about adding an additional body to the midfield to give us a numerical advantage there. For comparison, Guardiola normally plays a front three but instead of Aguero or Jesus dropping, he’ll push someone like Walker into midfield to make up the numbers instead.
Even though his numbers (and sometimes performances) this season don’t necessarily indicate it, we’re a better side with him there than we are when he’s not.
Why thank you, one of my bestBobby no goals has to be the best disparaging nickname in football.
That’s not a bad assesment. Werner coming on might not have made us better though. Firmino fits our system very well. Coutinho was considered more talented than Bobby too but we are better without him. Bottom line is we are miles ahead of the pack with him in the team. I love the posters claiming he’s been found out and are “ on to him” as if they know anything even remotely close the CL and PL winning coach. At some point we will need cover and or replacements for the front three not upgrades. You cannot upgrade what is near perfect.He provides the link-up play for Salah and Mane, that's his function and he's vital to how Liverpool play. Werner would have been an upgrade in that role so happy they didn't get him.
He's only overrated if you think he's world class. And if you think Firmino is world class then maybe football isn't your thing. He's a good player and a brilliant player for that particular system.
Heh, not really. Poorer than the last two for sure but i wouldn't call it a poor individual season all things consideredHe's having a poor (individual) season.
Indeed he is, although you wouldn’t guess it by the media consensus. We have better players who are probably considered to be doing worse.He's having a poor (individual) season.
He's neither rubbish nor "irreplaceable or instrumental to everything Liverpool does" while some going to the lengths of saying he's the most important player in the Liverpool team. He's nowhere near the other two attackers in the team and there's a plethora of attackers in football who are good at pressing and link up without being pathetic in front of goal.But based on the way this thread is going, Firmino is rubbish so it shouldn’t make a difference as long as Salah & Mane are there.
Because he was absolute shit mate. Would rather play with 10 man.Jay Jay was playing for a mid table side in his peak and I don’t remember people saying he was amongst the best in the world in his position?
The link between Heskey and Firmino is also a close one.I don’t see the link. Heskey worked hard for his team too.
I should hope so.I think he won in the Depay vs Firmino thread.
Martial has same goal ratio as Firmino but much inferior assist ratio, also Firmino won CL and PL back to back as an important figure while Martial has participated in the most shambolic years of United while not producing anything. But Martial is better... sureAs is Martial.
Agree. In the modern front 3 system many coaches now seem to prefer the player who ties the frontline over the more selfish scorer. Why Pep at one point seemed to like Jesus despite Aguero being a vastly better scorer. Not that Liverpool would turn down a world class player that does both but they would also be content to pass up on any such player who worsens the chemistry of that frontlineSome people just play video games and assume that every central attacker has to be the main goal scorer.
Firmino provides fluidity to the front 2 that play around him and the centre midfielders who aren't very creatively capable either. His gameplay allows Mane and Salah to play as forwards who cut in due to Firmino's ability to hold on to vital central striking positions which occupy the centre defence - leaving the wingback acres of space to attack from.
The same people who think Martial was rubbish when he was playing with Daniel James's crosses are now seeing Martial's ability improve due to occupy central positions even if Rashford or currently Greenwood take the main goal scoring ability from places at an angle after they have cut in.
Its Martial's ability to play centrally and drop deep, be supportive and link up play that allows our front 3 to play so narrow, compact - almost to the level where they interchange which each other due to their fluidity, creativity and finishing abilities.
Firmino is more creative but is a good hard working player capable of being clinical whilst Martial is more clinical yet has the ability to creative and functional with his hold up pay and good short 1-2 passing and runs.
Do they really think Lewandowski in the middle of Salah and Mane would work? Not a chance, not at a level enough to win the CL nor the premier league. I don't care if I back a Liverpool player here - but focusing on goals or stats from a central player when your clinical plays are clearly the ones playing around you is just plain stupidity.
Unfortunately.. I agree totally. What an effing manager. I mean how on earth can a midfield with no single outstanding player - he literally turns tur* to goldPrime example of how Klopp transforms players to work within his system.
Pains me to say it but what a feckin manager
Can they do again next season ?Unfortunately.. I agree totally. What an effing manager. I mean how on earth can a midfield with no single outstanding player - he literally turns tur* to gold
ok so the season was a one off but what does he feed them exactly? I have never seen such a seemingly talentless bunch transformed within a blink of an eye before - ever!
I mean can we honestly look back on the season and say ‘talent has won!’
please someone enlighten me
Are you a Liverpool fan? Your passionate defence of Firmino certainly implies that. Martial is a better goalscorer, though yes, congratulations to the Brazilian for being part of a successful team.Martial has same goal ratio as Firmino but much inferior assist ratio, also Firmino won CL and PL back to back as an important figure while Martial has participated in the most shambolic years of United while not producing anything. But Martial is better... sure