Roberto Firmino, the most overrated player in the Prem.

Kag

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I’m inclined to agree. He works nicely in this Liverpool team, but his stock would be a lot lower if he were to play elsewhere and be relied upon to score goals regularly.
 

RooneyLegend

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I don't understand the apparent need to consistently explain the position he plays as if that explains why he sometimes fails to make the right passes hence not get assists.

The man plays as a false 9 with two wide forwards either side of him. He basically plays the same position Messi played during the Pep years or that Cruiyff played during Holland's total football days. Or that Totti played at times at Roma.

One thing in common amongst those great players is that they didn't struggle to put up great numbers be it goals or assists. Why? Because they were truly great players who possessed an accuracy and technical level that Firmino isn't close to.

How he plays in no excuse for his lack of productivity. For example, in the video whoever posted it shows him doing what he should consistently do in that position and exactly what he doesn't consistently do. His touch fails him at times, he isn't much of a dribbled and his passing is inconsistent. He's holding Liverpool back from reaching untold levels at this point.
 

DoubleDinhos

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This thread is like a looking-glass into what it must have been like for you lot when Liverpool fans said Carrick was massively overrated while you were the best team in the world.

Having said that, this year particularly has not been his best for consistency. But I think a lot of the arguments getting levelled at him don't apply to the previous two seasons where he was consistently vital and fantastic.
 

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Could not disagree more. Imo he is one of the most underrated players in the PL. Gives everything for the team, great tactical awareness, unselfish, team player and makes the ones around him a lot better. One of those players you know the true worth of when he is out for a prolonged period.

And he has been absolutely vital for Liverpool’s success.
 

redman5

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This thread is like a looking-glass into what it must have been like for you lot when Liverpool fans said Carrick was massively overrated while you were the best team in the world.

Having said that, this year particularly has not been his best for consistency. But I think a lot of the arguments getting levelled at him don't apply to the previous two seasons where he was consistently vital and fantastic.
Totally agree that he's not been at his best this season, but for people to say he's overrated is laughable. Like you say the previous 2 seasons he was absolutely incredible. I think his loss of form this year might have had something to do with us having to grind out more wins than we're used to. He really is that important - at his best - to how we operate as an attacking unit. I think some people forget that even players like Ryan Giggs & Dennis Bergkamp had off seasons too.
 

Josh 76

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I don't understand the apparent need to consistently explain the position he plays as if that explains why he sometimes fails to make the right passes hence not get assists.

The man plays as a false 9 with two wide forwards either side of him. He basically plays the same position Messi played during the Pep years or that Cruiyff played during Holland's total football days. Or that Totti played at times at Roma.

One thing in common amongst those great players is that they didn't struggle to put up great numbers be it goals or assists. Why? Because they were truly great players who possessed an accuracy and technical level that Firmino isn't close to.

How he plays in no excuse for his lack of productivity. For example, in the video whoever posted it shows him doing what he should consistently do in that position and exactly what he doesn't consistently do. His touch fails him at times, he isn't much of a dribbled and his passing is inconsistent. He's holding Liverpool back from reaching untold levels at this point.
He's holding Liverpool back from reaching untold levels at this point?

Feck me, if that's the case, god help us all!
 

Josh 76

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I’m inclined to agree. He works nicely in this Liverpool team, but his stock would be a lot lower if he were to play elsewhere and be relied upon to score goals regularly.
So would most of Liverpool's team.
 

Pughnichi

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Right player
At the right club
At the right time
With the right manager
Who plays the right tactics to get every ounce of ability out of him

good player. But I don’t believe he would be as good outside of that team
 

JPRouve

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Is he actually that highly rated? I don't remember a lot of people talking about him as an exceptional players, he is very good and has a niche but I'm pretty sure that most people will have at least a handful of strikers above him?
 

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Reading the posts in this thread suggests that he is not the most overrated in the prem.

People rate players differently, but for me, only van Dijk is more important to our team than Firmino.
 

redman5

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Is he actually that highly rated? I don't remember a lot of people talking about him as an exceptional players, he is very good and has a niche but I'm pretty sure that most people will have at least a handful of strikers above him?
He's not an out & out striker though. He's more of an attacking midfielder type. If you're going to compare him with someone like Harry Kane or Mo Salah then he's not even close. But then again, Harry Kane is generally not known for his creative play & ability to bring others into the game with just a delicate touch. & he's most certainly not recognised for his workrate & helping break up opposition play.
 

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I think he’s class. He’d walk into our side.
 

JPRouve

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He's not an out & out striker though. He's more of an attacking midfielder type. If you're going to compare him with someone like Harry Kane or Mo Salah then he's not even close. But then again, Harry Kane is generally not known for his creative play & ability to bring others into the game with just a delicate touch. & he's most certainly not recognised for his workrate & helping break up opposition play.
That's the point, he isn't that highly rated, so how is he overrated? I feel that the people that rate him do it within a certain context which to me is fair but rare are the people who believe that he is Lewandowski, Benzema, Ronaldo, Kane, Suarez or even Mbappé's equal. He is a key player for Liverpool though and would be for several others.
 

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Agree. A striker who doesn’t score? Not for me. I feel a lot of reasons are put forward to justify him but not convinced by any of them. His return is poor.
 
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SilentWitness

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Is he actually that highly rated? I don't remember a lot of people talking about him as an exceptional players, he is very good and has a niche but I'm pretty sure that most people will have at least a handful of strikers above him?
In the last year the British pundits have put a lot of praise into him.

He's not an out & out striker though. He's more of an attacking midfielder type. If you're going to compare him with someone like Harry Kane or Mo Salah then he's not even close. But then again, Harry Kane is generally not known for his creative play & ability to bring others into the game with just a delicate touch. & he's most certainly not recognised for his workrate & helping break up opposition play.
The reason people and Spurs fans rate Kane as one of the best strikers in the world is because he scores goals and he play-makes for them. He’s definitely known for his creativity too.

Firmino is clearly a very good player. The only thing that I’d say is negative about him is that he’s only had one year where he’s managed over 20 goals in the season (for Liverpool). His 17/18 season shows he is capable and he notched up a genuine World Class tally of 27 goals and 17 assists all season.
 

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Offensively, he is overrated.

The defensive work he does and the cynical tactical fouling he does, however, is underrated. He's a key part of Klopp's gegenpressing/ tactical fouling system.
This seems about right. Like Park was a defensive winger, he is a defensive striker. Personally, not what I’d want from my No9.
 

redman5

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In the last year the British pundits have put a lot of praise into him.



The reason people and Spurs fans rate Kane as one of the best strikers in the world is because he scores goals and he play-makes for them. He’s definitely known for his creativity too.

Firmino is clearly a very good player. The only thing that I’d say is negative about him is that he’s only had one year where he’s managed over 20 goals in the season (for Liverpool). His 17/18 season shows he is capable and he notched up a genuine World Class tally of 27 goals and 17 assists all season.
Dennis Bergkamp only had one season out of 11 for Arsenal where he scored over 20 goals. Still doesn't stop people remembering him as a great player. The season Arsenal won the league in 2002 he only scored a total of 14 goals in 46 competitive games. People were most certainly not calling Firmino overrated in the 2 seasons prior to this.
 

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He's a good player who excels in their current setup. I think he benefits from being under the shadow of Mane & Salah.
 

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I have never heard anyone rate him as world class. Some of you are exaggerating about how highly rated he is.
He has a reputation of a decent player in a great team that's it. Sort of like Pedro at Barcelona. I think that is fair.
 

SilentWitness

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Dennis Bergkamp only had one season out of 11 for Arsenal where he scored over 20 goals. Still doesn't stop people remembering him as a great player. The season Arsenal won the league in 2002 he only scored a total of 14 goals in 46 competitive games. People were most certainly not calling Firmino overrated in the 2 seasons prior to this.
Dennis Bergkamp was also a much better player in every facet.
 

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Individually a good payer. In the Liverpool system a great player. Like Chris Sutton was with Shearer.
 

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One of the oddest looking feckers in the league. He's a good player but not a great one and is no where near the conversation when it comes to the PL's best foreign imports. He defensive style is rather unique though and he suits the boring style Liverpool have morphed into following the free flowing football they played the previous.

Not the type of player Sir Alex would have had at United.
 

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I find the whole thread pretty painful. He is clearly providing so much, and most football fans clearly can't see what it is he does. Watching football, not the same as being an expert in it.
 

fps

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I’m inclined to agree. He works nicely in this Liverpool team, but his stock would be a lot lower if he were to play elsewhere and be relied upon to score goals regularly.
This I do agree with. Of course, football being a team game, that doesn't really matter!
 

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He gets around 10-15 goals in the league. Fergie liked to have players who could do that and assist the better players, someone like a Tevez for example.
 

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Completely and utterly agree. Martial is a better player, but you'd never hear any pundit say that.

Sometimes the obvious answer, the one that is staring you massively in the face, is the right one. Not everything has to be subtle or beyond the intelligence of us mere mortals. Salah and Mane are far better players.
Martial may be the better player in your eyes... but very very rarely does he play better.

Applied talent trumps an under-utilised talent every time.
 

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I hate the Narrative that he’s world class because he makes runs off the ball, he’s a decent striker but nowhere near the player he’s made out to be.
 

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I’m inclined to agree. He works nicely in this Liverpool team, but his stock would be a lot lower if he were to play elsewhere and be relied upon to score goals regularly.
You could say the same about VVD.
 

TheReligion

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Disagree, strongly. He's exactly the type Sir Alex would go for.
Nah. He has zero X factor about him and as many have said he's a defensive forward. Fergie would go for a goalscorer (Cole, Ruud, Hernandez) or someone with that bit of class (Cantona, Berbatov, Rooney)

I don't think he falls into either category and sits in the middle.
 

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Our most important player. Not VVD, it's Firmino. Without him, our whole attack is toothless most of the time.

Not to mention his defensive contributions. His pressing is probably best in the world for an attacking player.

Klopp's whole ideology starts with Firmino. He's his ultimate wet dream. It would be the same for Pep.
Even if that were true, that is as much an issue of style as it is quality. You could just as easily say the same about James Milner or something - doesn’t make him a top player by any stretch.

Basically, Klopp wants to play with a 9.5, and Bobby No Goals is a 9.5. That’s as far as it goes. There are many other forwards who could match or improve what he offers.

Klopp’s system also requires ‘playing with wide forwards who score goals’. Mané and Salah are not just useful because this is the type of player they are, but because of the quality they are. The idea that Bobby is your most important player is ridiculous. Mané, Salah and Virgil are easily more important. You simply will win far less football games if they were missing. What will then happen is everyone would start saying Bobby ‘links play well and works hard but Liverpool need more from their centre forward if they are to win the league’. They aren’t saying that not because of him, but because Mané and Salah have ensured that nobody has to say that about him.
 

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I think he is decently rated.

The best false 9 in the world? probably. Not many can do what he can, supporting the wide forwards.

Liverpool set up that way, suits him really well. If he comes to United he won't have any use for us, as we prefer our CF to score goals.
:lol:

I think Barcelona might have a better one for a start.
 

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He's very good at his best, but too inconsistent. His short passing is atrocious at times. Still, we play so much worse every time he's out so it's clear that he's really important to the way we play.
 

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He’s not overrated. He’s an excellent footballer, I’d argue he’s the most important player in Liverpool’s front three.

Mane is the overrated one in that attack.
 

Deery

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He’s not overrated. He’s an excellent footballer, I’d argue he’s the most important player in Liverpool’s front three.

Mane is the overrated one in that attack.
That’s absolute nonsense Mane is the best player Liverpool have even better than Salah this season.