My question was about music not dancing. But regardling music, the article is just saying that all the previous songs that had incorporated Eastern music was orientalism, but Timbaland is an African American so it is not orientalism but groundbreaking. OK!
Music Rolling Stones 500 Greatest Songs of all time
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The Beatles put the sitar in a song in the mid-60s, but apparently six notes played on a tumbi and repeated endlessly in a shit hip hop song made in 2001 is considered more revolutionary. And better yet, the person who wrote the song says "it sounds Japanese or something". But hey, at least the lyrics are profound and deeply emotional.
Absolutely riveting stuff. 8th. Eighth!
Was gonna say this. This poster posts garbage in every thread they step into.
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Agreed re the Beatles. Ticket to Ride is a raag.
Agreed re the Beatles. Ticket to Ride is a raag.
Plenty of the music you're dismissing because it's old was innovative though.
Being innovative doesn't even mean a song is any good.
Jakko has one song in the top 50 
Love or hate him. That guy was one of the greatest of all time!
Don't even mention the lack of Elvis
Love or hate him. That guy was one of the greatest of all time!
Don't even mention the lack of Elvis
I'm narrow minded because I think one song out of the millions and millions out there is shite? You're not very good at this.
I'm starting to see that.Looking through the list, even some of the great bands have the order of their songs all fecked up.
Kashmir is behind Whole Lotta Love and Stairway. Kashmir is easily Zep's best effort.
The preposterously annoying Sweet Child o' Mine is higher than Welcome to the Jungle, and I haven't even seen November Rain.
The Gallagher brothers are mostly giant wankers. And City fans. But those go hand in hand, and nevertheless they're on the list. If Oasis have to have a song there, they should replace the 95th ranked Wonderwall with literally any other Oasis song. In fact, if I was to make a list of the 500 shittest songs ever, would Wonderwall be in the top 10? Maybeeeeeeeh.
Not a single Pink Floyd song in the top 150, and only two on the list - Comfortably Numb and Wish You Were Here. I'd rank Time and Money ahead of both.
Van Halen's Jump is on the list as their only song. Seriously. The one thing that made Van Halen a truly spectacular band, rather than just one of many was Eddie's guitar work, and these idiots have picked the one song where he mostly plays keyboards, and some of the corniest keyboards ever put down on tape at that. Mean Streets, Running With the Devil, Panama, Hot for Teacher, Push Comes to Shove, Unchained... All better than Jump.
I Want to Hold Your Hand is ranked as the second best Beatles Song. Sure, it was their first number 1 and sparked their career, but surely that alone doesn't a good song make? The Beatles have a literal shitload of amazing songs to pick from that are better, and yet they've only ranked Strawberry Fields Forever higher. I can't agree with that being their best either. A Day in the Life is their masterpiece.
Kashmir is behind Whole Lotta Love and Stairway. Kashmir is easily Zep's best effort.
The preposterously annoying Sweet Child o' Mine is higher than Welcome to the Jungle, and I haven't even seen November Rain.
The Gallagher brothers are mostly giant wankers. And City fans. But those go hand in hand, and nevertheless they're on the list. If Oasis have to have a song there, they should replace the 95th ranked Wonderwall with literally any other Oasis song. In fact, if I was to make a list of the 500 shittest songs ever, would Wonderwall be in the top 10? Maybeeeeeeeh.
Not a single Pink Floyd song in the top 150, and only two on the list - Comfortably Numb and Wish You Were Here. I'd rank Time and Money ahead of both.
Van Halen's Jump is on the list as their only song. Seriously. The one thing that made Van Halen a truly spectacular band, rather than just one of many was Eddie's guitar work, and these idiots have picked the one song where he mostly plays keyboards, and some of the corniest keyboards ever put down on tape at that. Mean Streets, Running With the Devil, Panama, Hot for Teacher, Push Comes to Shove, Unchained... All better than Jump.
I Want to Hold Your Hand is ranked as the second best Beatles Song. Sure, it was their first number 1 and sparked their career, but surely that alone doesn't a good song make? The Beatles have a literal shitload of amazing songs to pick from that are better, and yet they've only ranked Strawberry Fields Forever higher. I can't agree with that being their best either. A Day in the Life is their masterpiece.
Like what?
Still stalking me, I see. Good for you, you might actually improve your knowledge and understanding. Lord knows, you need educating on a great many topics.
No you just like old sounding music and balk at fresh or innovative sounds. It’s ok.I'm narrow minded because I think one song out of the millions and millions out there is shite? You're not very good at this.
Get your freak on is #8. This list is bollox.
Your posts are becoming as repetitive as Missy Elliot's lyrics.
Wow, what a zinger
Where do you even start? The 20th century had an explosion of new musical genres. Talking about innovation in music as if it's only a modern thing is crazy.
Innovation doesn't make a song good or bad, nor does being the first to do something mean you'll be the best to do it.
I actually think it's a decent song for having a bit of a dance to, but I doubt many people would have it in their top 10 hip hop songs, nevermind counting other genres.
I hope 'being wrong' is one of those topics? I not, I don't think you have much to offer.
Get Your Freak On is so repetitive it starts sounding stale halfway through the first listen.
Amplifiers, synthesizers, loops, feedback, guitar tapping, Stockhausen and electronic music, odd time signatures became mainstream for a while, wall of sounds, video clips, even fecking autotune etc and this are some of the things just in the technical aspect.
In genres? Delta Blues, Rock (Progressive, Punk, Metal, Psychedelia, Glam and the other hundred different styles), Pop, Disco, Funk, Reggae, Hip Hop, New Age.
Take I feel fine by the Beatles, the first song to have feedback. Or the video clip for Rain, the first video clip. Or tomorrow never knows, which used loops. Should they be consider top 10 songs because of this? Songs likeTomorrow never knows or the Message by the Grandmaster Flash, had more innovation than the whole career of Timbaland yet I struggle to think of them as top 50 song of ALL TIME no matter how much I love them. Or should we include Cher's Believe which demonstrates somenthing that it has truly changed the music (sometimes for the worse) and is being used by ALMOST everyone that last 20+ years? And yeah only modern music is innovative, thats why most of the popular songs now use the same four chords or Maroon 5 reached 800 millions views in YT with their song Memories just by covering a 300 hundred year old song.
Just because you have no clue in "old" music, dont dismiss it.
You probably meant ‘if not’, so basic spelling and grammar is among your many weaknesses that I can help you with. No wonder your obsession with me has no end
Dude, point to where I dismissed ‘old music’. I don’t think you actually understand what I’m saying here.
Where did I say that innovation in music is a modern thing? How is that even possible? Please highlight exactly where I said that?
By the way, for all the people waxing lyrical about the Beatles, I like a lot of their songs but they got wealthy by stealing black music. Now everyone steals from everyone, I get it, but they had the huge advantage of doing rhythm and blues music (or an inauthentic facsimile of it) as white people in an extremely racist mid 20th century Western World. Same with Elvis, same with the Stones, the Who etc.
Never said they weren’t innovative but they weren’t too much at the start, that’s for sure. Just ask Bobby Parker.
Nowhere. You just tell anyone who would not put a new song in their top 10 that they are geezers. Again, you asked like what innovation. I pointed to some innovation (that I am familiar). And you did not answer to anything. So again: Did the songs that i mentioned should be included in the top 10 because they are innovative?
For someone who isn't dismissing older music your tone when talking to some who mentions liking it is awfully condescending.
Why are you asking what older music was innovative if you think it's crazy to suggest it wasn't?
Get Your Freak On is wank. It was wank the day it came out and it remains wank. I consider this to be a fact.
When I asked ‘like what’, I was referring to the fact that the songs that the other guy listed are old or sound old from his perspective as someone in 2021. Cos that’s the only ‘dismissive’ thing I’ve said re music. I wasn’t saying that innovation in music started with Missy Elliott in the year 2000. Nor have I ‘dismissed old music’ in its entirety. Why would you think I would say that? Do you think I only like post 2000 records?
As I’ve said, the Rolling Stone list is deficient in many areas (music not in English or from outside the West etc.), and you can’t really ‘rank’ music anyway. But at least they’re trying to think outside the box a bit with some of the pop inclusions. Many people on here seem want to adhere to the (rigged) convention by having the top 20 songs filled out by Beatles, Stones and Dylan songs and balk at the idea that anything more recent can be placed above them. It’s the equivalent of when they re-do those lists of great literature and people get mad that someone contemporary is ranked above John Donne due to ‘political correctness’.
you’ll note that the Alison Krauss song I directly referred to was on his list. So I was talking about his list, not old music generally. I like old music and I like new music, just like any music fan (well actually, a lot of music fans just like old music it would seem). Of course I understand that there is music that sounds old now that was innovative at the time.For someone who isn't dismissing older music your tone when talking to some who mentions liking it is awfully condescending.
Why are you asking what older music was innovative if you think it's crazy to suggest it wasn't?
Already answered this, see above.
Another superfan. When will I be rid of these acolytes?!?!
Not aware of a single thing you’ve ever posted in any thread so maybe you need to step your game up pallie, and stop stanning me? Just a thought
He wrote Straight To Hell which is where they sampled the main riff from
A much better song in my opinion
The guy with 30 posts a day in the worst thread on the Caf is calling me obsessed. Also, you need to end sentences with a full stop, mate.You probably meant ‘if not’, so basic spelling and grammar is among your many weaknesses that I can help you with. No wonder your obsession with me has no end
Also, 'Believe' by Cher was innovative in its use of autotune and came out a mere three years before that Missy Elliot tripe, so it's essentially the same era of music. It's a fecking crime against humanity and probably also the rest of the mammalian species too, but it clearly deserves a top ten spot on the list because innovation!
The problem absolutely isn't that new songs ("new" in this case meaning 20 year old) were included. The problem is the notion that Get Your Freak On and Hey Ya! are the two best songs of the last 20 years.
Even if you were just making a hip-hop & rap list, having them as the two best from the last 20 years and the 2nd and 3rd best of all time would be lame.
For comparison, in their 100 best hip-hop songs list from 2017 when they asked actual artists and "experts" (like Chuck D, Big Boi, Mike D, Rick Rubin, etc.), GYFO was down in 38th place and there were three different Outkast songs included without Hey Ya! featuring at all. That list isn't perfect either but it immediately scans as a list made by people who actually know something about the genre when compared to this selection.
Even if you were just making a hip-hop & rap list, having them as the two best from the last 20 years and the 2nd and 3rd best of all time would be lame.
For comparison, in their 100 best hip-hop songs list from 2017 when they asked actual artists and "experts" (like Chuck D, Big Boi, Mike D, Rick Rubin, etc.), GYFO was down in 38th place and there were three different Outkast songs included without Hey Ya! featuring at all. That list isn't perfect either but it immediately scans as a list made by people who actually know something about the genre when compared to this selection.
Ah gotcha. Didn't realise that.
Yeah, you’re obsessed. I’ve got no idea where you post or what you post on, or how many posts you make on said topics. Nor do I care about any of those things. I also don’t try and latch on to you in random threads and try to talk to other posters about your activities.
And re the ‘Believe’ song, I think you need to calm down with the hyperbole across the board. ‘Believe’ is a ‘crime against humanity’ because what? Because you only like certain types of music. People have different tastes. A lot of people like that song. And the producer responsible for that did change the game (along with T-Pain, who popularised the use of auto-tune in hip hop and RnB). It’s not the case that innovation is the only thing but it is important in moving popular music forward. Therefore in compiling a list like this (a foolhardy task at the best of times), it’s not unusual to give credit to songs that are game changers in some way. It’s also not unusual to give credit to songs that are pop hits over songs that have ‘credibility’ with a certain demographic.
I think Hey Ya is a great song. But the criteria for making a list of ‘greatest songs’ and ‘greatest hip hop songs’ is completely different. For the former, there is the consideration of crossover appeal and cultural impact across the board. For the latter that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case, it’s more about the place of a song within the specific culture. A song like ‘the Bridge’ can be unknown to the wider world and yet still one of the greatest hip hop songs of all time.
Having said that, I’m surprised to see that GYFO made the hip hop list at all, given all the esteemed commentators on here rating it as the biggest pile of dung since records of poop began. I guess they know better.
That's not what's happened here, but whatever. I was interested in the topic being discussed and just happened to see you in here being just as confidently wrong as you've always been. Turns out being so massively incorrect, especially in your signature condescending way, is a great way to stand out, so I guess you've got that going for you?
Hey-Ya is wank as well. Ms. Jackson is better but neither belong in a top 500 songs of all time list.
Of course you think I’m wrong, you don’t have a scooby about anything. Either put me on ignore if you’re so agitated and triggered, or keep reading my posts and continue to expand your narrow thinking.
B.O.B is a banger and better than both imo.
Speakerboxxx/The Love Below is one of the all-time masterpieces of hip hop, though. I agree that none of the songs belong on a top 500, but the album as a whole is the work of genius. Rolling Stone seem to put a lot of weight on the songs listed being hits, and Hey Ya! was fecking everywhere when it came out, and it was the flagship song of the album.
You all need some proper metal in your lives.