Are you saying people score less goals the more they play international games?
Romelu Lukaku | Mourinho Part III | Roma watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
And that's why I rate Immobile and Lukaku at the same level as a Jamie Vardy or Ings.
Braithwaite has been a rotational player and has spent just as much time on the left. Greizmann has been a disappointment and his finishing has been woeful but he's still a better fit than Lukaku - can you really see Messi trying to play one touch passing with Lukaku in a crammed box? He'd have left by January. Lukaku would never be considered for Barca as he simply doesn't have the technical attributes.
He might get into the Arsenal side - I'd certainly put him below Aubameyang and around the same level as Lacazette. Same with Chelsea, Timo Werner and Abraham are around the same level.
There will always be outliers, but it is obviously easier to score in the Serie A than it is in the PL as the league is comfortably more competitive. Just like it was easier to score in the PL in the 90s compared to Serie A.
That comparison's knda unfair to Vardy considering he's only played 11 games in all European competitions. Immobile has 32 games while Lukaku's at 64
Fluff. The only valid criticism of Lukaku is his poor record in the biggest games, and i'd be curious to see how he stacks up against most other world class players at that
What do you mean fluff? Im guessing you're one of those who checks the results sees Lukaku scored > He played great.
UEFA Champions League 2020/21
Ciro Immobile: 4 games played, 5 goals scored
Alvaro Morata: 6 games played, 6 goals scored
Romelu Lukaku: 5 games played, 4 goals scored
-> 15 games, 15 goals
"It's easy to score in Serie A"... and in Champions League then. Can someone tell me please how many Champions League goals Jamie Vardy and Danny Ings have scored this season?
"It's easy to score in Serie A"... Lukaku and Immobile against German teams (Borussia Dortmund and Moenchengladbach not Arminia Bielefeld) this season scored 7 goals in 4 games played (8/5 if we add 2019/20 UEL QF Leverkusen- Inter when Lukaku bullied Tah and Tapsoba several times). Dont think they're good goalscorers in Serie A just because it's a poor league
"It's easy to score in Serie A".. Don't forget Lukaku is the 20th most prolific striker in the history of Premier League. If we don't include penalties, Lukaku scored 17 Serie A goals last season in his first season for Inter, 16 non-penalties goals in his first season for Manchester United. Such a big difference..
Ciro Immobile: 4 games played, 5 goals scored
Alvaro Morata: 6 games played, 6 goals scored
Romelu Lukaku: 5 games played, 4 goals scored
-> 15 games, 15 goals
"It's easy to score in Serie A"... and in Champions League then. Can someone tell me please how many Champions League goals Jamie Vardy and Danny Ings have scored this season?
"It's easy to score in Serie A"... Lukaku and Immobile against German teams (Borussia Dortmund and Moenchengladbach not Arminia Bielefeld) this season scored 7 goals in 4 games played (8/5 if we add 2019/20 UEL QF Leverkusen- Inter when Lukaku bullied Tah and Tapsoba several times). Dont think they're good goalscorers in Serie A just because it's a poor league
"It's easy to score in Serie A".. Don't forget Lukaku is the 20th most prolific striker in the history of Premier League. If we don't include penalties, Lukaku scored 17 Serie A goals last season in his first season for Inter, 16 non-penalties goals in his first season for Manchester United. Such a big difference..
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Agree about Immobile and would have agreed about Lukaku last season. But this season he's easily been a level above that
Messi played the last 3 seasons with Suarez and had no problems with him. Have you seen Suarez in the last 3 seasons? There's a reason most barcelona fans wanted him out, and "poor in every way outside of scoring goals" is it
But sure, barcelona's attack looks better this season than it has in the last 3. Lukaku would still easily start for them
watch them play, right now, if you want to make comparisons. Aubameyang, ffs This is true
No, i actually watch inter a lot(which is good this season because they tend to be great entertainment). I say fluff because your point is fluff. Lukaku has been carrying them this season. He's consistently decisive on a level only bettered by Cristiano fecking Ronaldo across the league(Ibra has been injured too long). Looking awkward, having poor first touch, etc, that's fluff. What matters is how well he plays and how effective he is. And he's the second best player in the league
Jesus christ
Jamie Vardy has 11 games in all EUROPEAN GAMES together
Immobile 32 games
Lukaku 64 games
Morata 62 games
use some logic ffs
Carrying? In what way is he carrying Inter? The team is carrying him cause he's nothing without the perfect passes
He scored 8 goals from less than 10 yards this season - proper tap in merchant + 3 pens
Conte's literal game plan is pass the ball to Lukaku hope for the best.
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Is the debate still rumbling? You can throw stats around all you want but anyone that watched him play for United for the time he was here will know that he isn't good enough to play for an elite team. He may grow into a better striker in time but he's found his level now, in the 3rd/4th best league in Europe.
It really is. They're second, with the league's best attack. Their entire build up plan is built around lukaku doing the things you people keep shitting him for: hold up and link up play. He's been exceptional at it
He's been decent at it. He's still losing duels vs defenders half his size.
Also ask yourself why he's doing so well in Serie A but was shit in EPL?
Has nothing to do with the quality of the league right?
Every once in a while. Again, so what?
This pretty much sums it up. Whatever he does now and beyond good luck to him but I still have sleepless nights thinking about how goddam awful he was for us. Inability to control a ball, inability to judge the flight of the ball, lack of strength against opposition who basically knew how to defend against him, misplaced belief in himself whilst most of us (and probably his teammates) were crying/laughing at his regular performance & wondering what the heck management saw in him.
In no way is he world class unless we are significantly lowering the bar
I'm saying it's possible that when he reaches a similar number of games played, then he might not have a better ratio
Are you really comparing Suarez to Lukaku
Suarez is relatively clumsy for Barcelona but he is lightyears in football intelligence, mentality and technique above Lukaku - prime Alexis Sanchez looked technically out of his depth at Barca. What do you think Lukaku would look like? They wouldn't go near him.Not to mention it's stupid comparing Messi's international record when he doesn't get to play the Gibraltars, Latvias and Liechtensteins every season and he's far more of a playmaker.
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Have you actually seen either play in the last year? Lukaku has a better first touch and is a better passer than Suarez these days. The only thing Suarez still has on Lukaku are energy and finishingAre you really comparing Suarez to Lukaku
Braithwaithe is starting for them. Griezmann too, and he's been crap. Regardless of how he'd fit into their playing style a reliable goalscorer starts for them. Suarez would still start for them right now if they didn't kick him out
Wouldn't necessarily be the case if Ansu Fati wasn't injured, but he is
Lukaku has obviously been quality for you at Inter, and has delivered great numbers, even though 10 of his 51 goals in 73 apps for you are penalties. He has delivered good numbers consistantly everywhere he's been, he's just not delivered numbers to deserve the world class stamp (Just 1 in 7 seasons with 20+ goals in the PL). I think he is a very good striker and goalscorer and would definitely compete for a starting position for several top clubs. His record for Belgium is outstanding too.
I'm sad we couldn't get the best out of him here and happy for him at Inter.
Using young Bruno's numbers from Udinese and Samptoria to prove it is a tough league to put up numbers in is just silly though. It's like using Conor Gallaghers stats for West Brom to prove it's hard to score in the PL.....
I think this is a great way to sum it up.
So many premier league flops are rocking up in England and taking it by storm? Mkhitaryan looked absolutely useless for both us and arsenal most of the time, yet some how he's flying for Roma.
In England Lukaku often looked "big" but no bigger than defenders, but in Italy he looks like a monster again. He is obviously a good player and certainly in better shape than he was at united, but he's not world class.
A classic number 9 talents are rare these days. Imagine if senior players like Ronaldo, Suarez and Lewandowski retired from football and we are still in shortage of number 9 talents while Lukaku keeps playing in Italy. The best 9's would consist of Haaland, Kane and... Lukaku? that's it? it's hard to imagine someone with a pair of chicken legs becoming one of the greatest number 9 in a certain era/period.
Yes, serie A is a really good fit for Lukaku. But also, there's been no appreciable difference between his performances between the league and europe, aside from the smaller sample
Here me out: maybe he's just gotten better? He's 27, players are supposed to get better around that age
I'm not sure he's got better, he just got a lot worse at United if that makes sense?
When he first joined he looked like the Lukaku we now, physically and mentally. He was a lot better and went on a really good scoring run in his first 10 games.
Something then seemed to change, Mourinho wanted him to play differently and he started putting on a lot of weight. He then lost all his mobility and explosiveness and looked heavy and tired.
Obviously that extra weight tipped the scales too far, and as we know at top end sport the small changes make a big difference.
Compare a photo of him at united to how he looks at inter now, and how he looked at Everton before, it's like 20kg difference! He looks motivated by Inter and Conte, so he's out of the dip.
That would without a doubt be one of the biggest transformations ever seen in the game of football! I don't think it's possible to go from being one of the least technical forwards in the Premier League who could generally struggle to control a ball to becoming the 5th best striker in the world. Truthfully, it just doesn't happen. It's more likely he's just playing under lower pressure, in a weaker team, in a system aimed to generate him (and only him) chances. He knows how to find the back of the net but he's one of the biggest carthorses I've had the displeasure of seeing lead the line at this club.
The only time he was shit in EPL was his second season with us, when he turned into a tub of lard with the blessing of the manager.
The great irony about Lukaku at United is that his most vocal fanboys (many of whom are now banned from the Caf) were also massive Jose apologists. Thus they were unable to admit that Lukaku's shocking form in that second season was down to Jose (a) neglecting to address his fitness and (b) insisting he play as an ersatz Drogba; a role in which he was completely unsuited.
Plenty of people (myself included) weren't enthusiastic about his signing, but the majority opinion on here at the end of his first season was that he had done OK, and would do better with better service (like he gets at Inter) in the future. Not that he was terminally shit.
I really don't understand the need to downplay his quality (hate).
He was never shit in EPL . Leaving for Italy at 26, after 7 seasons with 10-26 goals a season. 113 goals (only 6 pens) and 42 assists in 19079 minutes is a lot better than shit. Harry Kane (154 goals(23 pens)/35 assists in 18749 minutes) and Aguero (180 goals(26 pens)/54 assists in 19443 minutes) are the only 2 players with more goal contributions than him in his period in England. Honorable mentions: Vardy (114 goals(24 pens)/39 assists in 18543 minutes) and Salah who will pass him easily with similar minutes.
Lukaku played and contributed to most of his goals for WBA and Everton and had far worse working conditions there than what Kane and Aguero has had for Spurs and City.
When happy and motivated he's a quality striker, just didn't click/bother with us and moved on. World class? No.
He's really not playing under lower pressure, or in a weaker team, or even in a system designed to generate him and only him chances.
He *is* playing in a somewhat weaker league better suited to him. He's also getting the best coaching of his career, by a guy who wouldn't swap him for Lewandowski, and just entered his career-prime years
Top 5 striker in the world? A stretch, depends on whether you'd count guys like Cristiano, Salah, traditional second striker types. That said, other than Lewandowski, Kane and Benzema, probably Haaland....who else is there?
WHAT the heck?!?! as far as I am concerned Miki is trash. Is he doing well? He wasn't even good enough for this shite Arsenal team.
Serie A is the best place to reboot your reputation. He'll probably get signed again by a big club and then re-flop
He was shit even in his first season but people seem to forget those misses. I still remember people on here defending him with excuses like 'We need to create more chances for him'...
The 2017-18 title race was over before it even started because this guy choked when we needed him the most.
He fecked us vs Stoke, City, Huddersfield, Newcastle,..
We dropped at least 6 points cause of him
And don't get me started about the Sevilla game.
He's a case where PL exceptionalism actually holds true. In england, defenders bullied him off the ball all the time. In Italy they get called for a foul for the same thing. He doesn't lose confidence > plays well > gains more confidence > suddenly he's great
He was great in germany and always did well in europe, even at united
Well considering Martial put in performances last season that eclipsed anything Lukaku ever managed in a Utd shirt I'd choose him for one! But as others have said, Vardy, Aguero, Jesus, Martial, Kane, Aubamayang have all performed much better than Lukaku ever did in the Premier League.
The retort with Lukaku will always look at his goals scored column, but since when has football been about such reductive thinking. The eye test told me for years that Lukaku was overrated while at West Brom and Everton and didn't have the technique to make it at the top of the game. Then he moved to Utd and proved all of those initial fears correct and more. Fair play to him for going to Inter and maximising his abilities and actually managing to hoodwink people once more into thinking he's world-class, but players don't changer overnight and there's not a chance he's suddenly managed to iron out the technical faults he's shown since breaking through, all the way up to Inter Milan.
It’s weird how you can watch him and genuinely wonder how he’s a professional footballer, yet his goal tallies can be on par with world class players.
I’ve seen him miss incredibly easy sitters way more often than other players, fluff major major chances, miss the ball completely, and get it stuck under his feet, yet people say he knows how to find the back of the net, and his goal tally suggests he may well do.
Such an odd player.
All I know is, even if he’s getting goals he’s detrimental to a team that wants to play like us, and I’m glad he’s gone.
I’ve seen him miss incredibly easy sitters way more often than other players, fluff major major chances, miss the ball completely, and get it stuck under his feet, yet people say he knows how to find the back of the net, and his goal tally suggests he may well do.
Such an odd player.
All I know is, even if he’s getting goals he’s detrimental to a team that wants to play like us, and I’m glad he’s gone.
Good for them. Other than Kane, which of those players has been better than Lukaku this season?
They generally don't, yeah, but Lukaku left United 1 year and a half ago. That's not overnight
Technical faults is, again, fluff. What it means, is that he's unlikely to ever hit the levels of the Lewandowski and Kane of the world. Doesn't preclude a player from becoming world class
This place has a hard on for Haaland who is not technically better than Lukaku
1. I don't think CAF overlooks Haaland's technical limitations.
2. Haaland is 20. Lukaku is 27.
3. At 20, Haaland is more prolific than Lukaku at 27.
Immobile in CL has 10 matches 9 goals 2 assists. He’s contributed more than a goal a game.
m
Meanwhile Jamie Vardy had 2 goals and 1 assist in 9 games. People talk about Immobile being in a weak league but Inmobile’s output in the champions league pretty much matches or even exceeds his output in the Italian league.
I can’t say the same about Jamie Vardy.
I don’t know much about Ings but what is his record like in the CL?
EPL is slightly more competitive but it has more to do with the big teams playing so poor. I mean, last season Liverpool walked the league while sleepwalking through most matches. So either the league is not that competitive or that Liverpool side was the greatest football team in the history of the game given they were able to be 20+ points ahead near midway through the season.
Fair enough but there is a reason why those players were wanted by bigger teams etc. Manchester United and Inter wanted Lukaku while Vardy hasn’t been linked to anyone bigger than Arsenal. The bigger teams you play for the more chance for European football. All I’m saying is that in the one season he did play in the CL he didn’t look anywhere near as good as he does in the EPL.
You keep bringing this up, but Vardy and Immobile have played a similar amount of games in the champions league - Vardy has 9, while Immobile has 10. Yet their contributions are far apart. Vardy doesn’t seem to replicate his goal scoring in the CL like he does in EPL. Immobile on the other hand does. You can say it’s a small sample which I agree - but it’s not as if it’s one game. Immobile does just as well in the CL as he does in serie a.
He's a very good forward.