Romelu Lukaku | Mourinho Part III | Roma watch

yumtum

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I’m suggesting what I wrote, not what you wrote. Everything I am saying, is what I actually said, so there is thankfully no need to run with an alternative version.
Alternative version? I'm just trying to get what you're trying to imply? You're basically calling people racist without actually calling them racist, and that's just snide.

For what it's worth, if Lukaku didn't cost us £70m and wasn't such an ass then he'd be a great back up striker, the same reason why I'd be on board for Ings being here, very good at scoring goals but not much else, which was apparent with Lukaku in the big games - which makes him not world class, nothing to do with his skin colour (for me at least).
 

Andycoleno9

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
 

DixieDean

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
It's all very odd.
 

roonster09

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
Its actually hilarious that the same question is repeated every month even when loads of posters said why they don't like him
 

Varun1

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I don’t really open this thread, so what made me uncomfortable was when he was a United player. I can’t go into all the detail now, but he was often spoken of in such a poor way I think, not just the ‘he didn’t play well’, it was often the ‘lazy, thick, donkey’ variety. I haven’t opened this thread much since as I suspect it is just here to serve as a safe place for such stuff to continue, although I may be wrong.

And why strikers, in particular, deserve respect is because their metrics are not really subjective. Even if you don’t like a particular striker, you have to respect a man who trades in goals who puts up good numbers. I was never really a fan of Inzaghi, but I have no choice but to respect him as a centre forward because he finds a way to score goals. That isn’t so much a matter of opinion anymore.
My personal take on Lukaku and I believe it's the same for most is:
*Noone likes a player who blames others, and especially his teammates, for his own faillings.
*Luka would big himself up, I for one don't like players like that (Ibra, Luka, Deeney, Bendtner etc). But especially as he then wouldn't deliver on the pitch.
*He would talk about the club after leaving.

The bolded part is a strange take imo, i'll just assume that what you're trying to say isn't quite coming across.

I think you should elaborate on that 'shades of implicit' comment - please make it clear what you mean.
 

horsechoker

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
Most people feel antipathy towards him because he didn't live up the hype at United, moreover his comments about his time at United have created further dislike of him by many on here. If he kept his mouth shut I'm sure there would be a bit less fuss over him.

He's a good striker but not elite level, in terms of the Premier League Everton was his level and a less strong Serie A is his level. He might help Inter to a Serie A title but in big moments, he's not the guy and he doesn't help himself when speaks like he's the Belgian Ibrahimović.
 

DoomSlayer

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
Disrespecting the club and acting like a spoilt prick gets you that type of long-term reaction by the fanbase. Not to mention that the guy refused to train with us and went to Anderlecht to further force our hands into accepting Inter's offer.
 

Carl

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I’m only posting this here as I was in the Haaland thread and I saw someone say he was in the top 5 strikers in the world now with x,y and z. With Lukaku, you cannot help but think he is a classic example of ‘has to do twice as much’.
He does need twice the amount of chances tbf..
 

Rozay

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My personal take on Lukaku and I believe it's the same for most is:
*Noone likes a player who blames others, and especially his teammates, for his own faillings.
*Luka would big himself up, I for one don't like players like that (Ibra, Luka, Deeney, Bendtner etc). But especially as he then wouldn't deliver on the pitch.
*He would talk about the club after leaving.

The bolded part is a strange take imo, i'll just assume that what you're trying to say isn't quite coming across.
As for the bolded part, simply put, a striker deserves respect if he has a good goalscoring record. Whether you think he has a great touch, link play, vision etc - if a striker scores goals, he should be respected at the very least.
 

KennyBurner

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
Oh look another question pretending not to know why Lukaku is generally disliked by most on the forum. Tell him to keep the club out of his mouth and to also apologize about his behavior during his last few days here.
 

roonster09

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Its surprising that people think Haaland is not in top 5 CFs in the world or asks if Haaland why not Lukaku. Just compare their goal scoring record, it's so obvious why one is top 5 CF in the world and other is just a good CF.

His goal scoring record in league, CL, against big clubs is all awesome.
 

KennyBurner

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As for the bolded part, simply put, a striker deserves respect if he has a good goalscoring record. Whether you think he has a great touch, link play, vision etc - if a striker scores goals, he should be respected at the very least.
This is a very outdated form of thinking. I think football has moved past that.
 

Carl

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Tbf to Lukaku, I think he was a victim of circumstances. Similar to when we signed Fellaini, there was a bit of a collective eye roll because it was a very predictable signing by a not very popular manager, giving a clue to a style of football we didn't want to see. Plus, under Jose we played the worst football we've seen post Fergie and when things aren't going well for Jose everything really does go to shit at the club. Lukaku included.

Hes a good striker who will guarantee goals (he's absolutely not top5 though), and I think would do well in this current United team.

For me though, he's the signing synonymous with the Jose reign, which is why I'll never really like him.

I'll add though. He has been a bit of a dick since he left.
 

roonster09

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Immobile has outscored Lukaku in 4/5 seasons and the other season both scored same number of goals. Wonder why he doesn't the recognition he deserves.
 

Carl

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As for the bolded part, simply put, a striker deserves respect if he has a good goalscoring record. Whether you think he has a great touch, link play, vision etc - if a striker scores goals, he should be respected at the very least.
I agree. But good goalscoring record isn't the be all and end all these days, you have to be about more than that.
 

welshwingwizard

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I think if he were white, with the same record that he has had throughout his career, he’d be spoken of differently than he is. Obviously, I can’t prove that so I won’t try to. But it’s my opinion, formed of years of watching how various players are spoken of, in light of their respective achievements, and a lifelong heightened sensitivity to things of this nature. And I don’t think it’s ‘racist’ per se, not direct, more of a subconscious nature. I’m also not speaking of his time at United exclusively, just his standing within the game, and the level to which he has the piss taken out if him online, and has done for years, with compilations, memes and the rest of it. I just can’t see it having played out like that if he looked different, but who knows?
The problem is you quote Cole as being disrespected and whilst the media went to town on him I think most United fans would say he is one of the best ever PL strikers for United (and we have had most of the best). I'd put Cantona, RVN, RVP and Rooney above him but he is equal to Hughes, Yorke and above Sheringham, Tevez, Saha, Berbatov and Ole.

The problem with Lukaku isn't racial bias but his own mentality. Wasnt there the quote where he wasn't happy to be criticized at united if he scored but also missed one. To be an elite striker you need to be special in that aspect, push yourself and never be comfortable. It's why I think Rashford will get there, Martial won't (despite maybe being more natural) and why Lukaku can't be considered top class, no matter how much of a flat track bully he can be at times.

Ask yourself this, from the United players I quoted does he deserve to be mentioned alongside them?
 

Idxomer

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@Rozay I believe the perception of Lukaku has changed a lot the last two seasons, the commentators now are very complimentary of his game and talk a lot about his improvement since joining Inter. It's very different from how he was talked about at United.

Here of course is different but most of the hate comes from his interviews about his time at United and his attitude before his transfer, all not very dissimilar to how the fans despise Di Maria.
 

Rozay

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@Rozay I believe the perception of Lukaku has changed a lot the last two seasons, the commentators now are very complimentary of his game and talk a lot about his improvement since joining Inter. It's very different from how he was talked about at United.

Here of course is different but most of the hate comes from his interviews about his time at United and his attitude before his transfer, all not very dissimilar to how the fans despise Di Maria.
Yea that’s fair enough.

He’s not my favourite ever striker or anything, but have always felt he probably deserves more credit than he’s gotten.

I do get the opinions of him in relation to his transfer, but I haven’t really even seen those, as I don’t think I’ve opened this thread more than two or three times since he left. Was more when he was our player. Always seemed a different, slightly more hateful tone towards him on here. ‘Thick, lazy, cnut, donkey’ etc were commonplace.

Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said. These are my perceptions and I respect those who have differing views on the matter. What I’m alluding to is possibly not a wise conversation to begin anyway, as no matter what, it isn’t something that will be ‘proven’, so will just go round and round.
 

Rozay

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The problem is you quote Cole as being disrespected and whilst the media went to town on him I think most United fans would say he is one of the best ever PL strikers for United (and we have had most of the best). I'd put Cantona, RVN, RVP and Rooney above him but he is equal to Hughes, Yorke and above Sheringham, Tevez, Saha, Berbatov and Ole.

The problem with Lukaku isn't racial bias but his own mentality. Wasnt there the quote where he wasn't happy to be criticized at united if he scored but also missed one. To be an elite striker you need to be special in that aspect, push yourself and never be comfortable. It's why I think Rashford will get there, Martial won't (despite maybe being more natural) and why Lukaku can't be considered top class, no matter how much of a flat track bully he can be at times.

Ask yourself this, from the United players I quoted does he deserve to be mentioned alongside them?
I’m not accusing United fans of not giving Cole his credit, I’m accusing English football of not doing so.

And no, I don’t think Lukaku is as good as Rooney, Persie and co, that isn’t so much my point. More a case of, in terms of centre forwards playing now, his achievements deserve more respect, and in terms of racial bias - I believe he’d have gotten that respect under different circumstances, although it’s a dead horse as I would never ‘prove’ such a thing.
 

Rozay

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I agree. But good goalscoring record isn't the be all and end all these days, you have to be about more than that.
I agree with that too. And much of it will always be subjective - but all I’m saying is if a striker who scores 25 goals a season wants to say he’s amongst the best, I think he’s entitled to feel that way. Others may not, but he can, and people should - even if they disagree - be able to understand why that could be said of such a player. That’s all I mean by respecting what he’s done.

Like, I feel Lukaku is entitled to say that he’s a better striker than Firmino. Some people seem to think Firmino is an amazing striker and will disagree, but Lukaku is entitled to feel that way I think, and he will put forward his argument that he is a better goalscorer, and whatever the outcome, it is an argument that demands to be considered. I think the same goes for Danniy Ings, who someone else mentioned. He should feel that he’s better than Firmino too.
 

Lord SInister

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Why some fans don't like him?
Erm, because he is a proper crybaby cnut. Nobody likes a whiner, and especially whiners who aren't winner. He lacks that winner mentality.
While I don't dislike him, and despite his technical inferiority and anti-clutchness, I think he is a proper goal scorer and you don't score as many goals, as he did, everywhere he went.
 

hubbuh

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Every fan has 100% right to "hate" or love our former players. And i admit that i am the same. Some i still love, some..well, not much. (Cough, Cristiano, cough).
But why all this "hate" towards this guy? Was ok for us (not bad, not great), now scoring a lot of goals for Inter and that is it. 158 pages about him. That is insane
Not that it needs saying again, but he was one our biggest and most expensive transfers of all time. He also went out of his way to slag the club off while maintaining this facade of having some elite mentality or whatever. Also, it's a United forum, so calling a thread insane for discussing one of its former players is a bit bloody odd!
 

Andycoleno9

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Oh look another question pretending not to know why Lukaku is generally disliked by most on the forum. Tell him to keep the club out of his mouth and to also apologize about his behavior during his last few days here.
Yes, another question because it is all based on his performances in United. So another classic double standards.
Ronaldo said that he is a slave and was crying about move to Real. Rooney put transfer request twice. Ruud refused to be on the bench. After he left, Keane criticized a lot biggest manager in history of football and lots of players too. All 4 are loved by all of us and all is forgiven.
But lets all hate Lukaku, right?

I don't give a shit about Lukaku (neither love him or hate him) but i find it odd that there is an obsession about him. But as i said, everybody is free to think about any player what he wants.
So carry on, i apologize that i asked.
 

roonster09

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Yes, another question because it is all based on his performances in United. So another classic double standards.
Ronaldo said that he is a slave and was crying about move to Real. Rooney put transfer request twice. Ruud refused to be on the bench. After he left, Keane criticized a lot biggest manager in history of football and lots of players too. All 4 are loved by all of us and all is forgiven.
But lets all hate Lukaku, right?

I don't give a shit about Lukaku (neither love him or hate him) but i find it odd that there is an obsession about him. But as i said, everybody is free to think about any player what he wants.
Yeah let's compare the players who took ManUtd to new heights with player who achieved feck all but acted like twat in interviews.
 

Andycoleno9

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Yeah let's compare the players who took ManUtd to new heights with player who achieved feck all but acted like twat in interviews.
I don't argue that he was a twat. He moved on and i am finished with him. I even forgot that he played for us.
That is why i asked. Was ok player for us two seasons and moved on. I don't know why all attention towards him
 

roonster09

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I don't argue that he was a twat. He moved on and i am finished with him.
So it's easy to see why ManUtd fans don't like him? Especially that he didn't even train in preseason, acted like twat in interviews calling out his teammates just because he was manager's pet. And then you have brunch of people who bumped this thread whenever he scores and came up with so much nonsense just because we struggled for a bit last season.
 

Andycoleno9

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So it's easy to see why ManUtd fans don't like him? Especially that he didn't even train in preseason, acted like twat in interviews calling out his teammates just because he was manager's pet. And then you have brunch of people who bumped this thread whenever he scores and came up with so much nonsense just because we struggled for a bit last season.
Yeah, i understand now. For me he is finished chapter but ok, i understand why all the fuss from some of you.
That is why i asked at the first place, ffs. :)
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Any talk about his actual performances here? Have not watched Inter much recently, but looks like he has lost form recently.
Is he wasting chances? According to xG he is not clinical, but not wasting much either. Unlike Immobile who is clinical.
 

The holy trinity 68

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I don’t mean strikers as in attackers, I mean strikers as in strikers.

And of those, he is certainly near the best in the world. Perhaps when he retires, and his records then begin to speak for themselves, would he get some credit.

The same thing happens with Andy Cole. Never comes up in any conversations about great PL strikers, despite being the third all time goalscorer (and for a long time, he was second), without taking penalties either. He doesn’t have to be likes, but he has to be respected. And Lukaku would, and should, feel that he is in any conversation about top strikers in the game. He’s the fastest player to reach 50 goals for Inter, faster than R9, he’s his country’s record goalscorer, and has scored a couple hundred league goals and counting to go with it. He will be forever overlooked for whatever reason though. A lot of the specific criticisms I’ve seen applied to his game I’ve seen in Haaland’s game too, but nobody cares. In his case, we’ll just pay attention to the numbers. And this isn’t to say Haaland isn’t great or even better, I’m saying that the metrics applied are different. For most strikers, goals tends to be the key currency. Vardy does fexk all on the pitch but score (mostly from the spot), yet is never spoken about negatively.

As I said, ‘twice as hard’ for Lukaku in my opinion.
There is more to being a very good attacker than just scoring goals, especially when other aspects of his game are so poor and he can be a hindrance more than beneficial to a team. Like his disgraceful record against top teams, he offers nothing most of the time. For a player on his wage and transfer prices you need more than just scoring against fodder. He slows down play and ruins attacking build ups far too often. If a team is going to pay £80m for their main striker they are to expect more than just goals against bottom half teams. He can score 1000 goals against bottom half teams for all I care, it will still show he isn't an elite player.

Comparing Lukaku with Vardy is very odd and nothing alike. Lukaku's total transfers combined has cost £180m, Vardy cost a total combined transfer value of £2m. Vardy scores in most big games and Lukaku has scored about 5 big goals in his career. Vardy offers miles more in the build up of attacks especially in his prime. Vardy was also one of the main reasons Leicester won the PL. Lukaku has won nothing major whilst being the main man.

As for Cole, he won far more than Lukaku whilst being a vital part of most of his honours, and was an all round far better player than Lukaku.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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He’s overlooked because he’s never been elite. Last season was the first season in his career at age 27 that he got in the top 10 of the Golden Boot, he finished 7th. Immobile won it with 13 more goals than Lukaku in the same league. No one talks about him either, probably because the Italian League is now the 4th ranked in Europe and his side do nothing in European competition. For Lukaku to be talked about as a truly elite striker he’d have to start putting those numbers in in the league and start affecting the Champions League in the knockout stages. The top strikers put in a goal a game numbers. Lukaku never has.

If Jamie Vardy started to publicly claim he was a top 5 striker in the world everyone would think he is a dick too. Not only because people don’t like that kind of arrogance but more importantly, same as in the case of Lukaku, it isn’t true.

edit: I do respect Lukaku’s career though, he’s a solid and reliable goalscorer, he’s never injured and can play in pretty much every game. I’m not a fan of his style, get no enjoyment from watching him play and am glad he’s no longer at United, however.
You basically said everything I had been percolating in my mind. I'd like to hire you full time to articulate my thoughts.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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Lukaku is one of the best strikers in the world. The amount of disrespect he receives in the game makes me quite uncomfortable to be honest, and there are definitely shades of the ‘implicit’ in it for me (as much as I genuinely hate to take a conversation there).

The man will likely retire with 400+ career goals but have spent most of his career being laughed at. He’s hardly the biggest prick in the game either, so I can’t help think there’s just something that triggers the subconscious about him that leads to him being constantly spoken down on.

I wasn’t his biggest fan for a while, but in football, and with strikers in particular - you have to respect players even if you don’t rate them. I’m not a fan of Jamie Vardy either, and for a long time, I wasn’t a fan of Harry Kane (until the last few years where he has, to me, actually become a top level footballer) - but I always respected them, because they have more than earned it with their numbers. And I often found some of the language used towards him on here to be fairly distasteful.

I’m only posting this here as I was in the Haaland thread and I saw someone say he was in the top 5 strikers in the world now with x,y and z. With Lukaku, you cannot help but think he is a classic example of ‘has to do twice as much’.
Only in the sense of Lukaku being paid to be a striker in a professional team is he considered one of the best in the world. 20 clubs in the Premier League, so every striker in the league could be argued to be one of the best in the world, but if you mean Lukaku is an elite player, one of the very best, then absolutely not. The Italian league has its stars but is a lesser league. Is Lukaku one of the top 10 strikers in that league? Yes. If one assembled a list of the players who play the exact same role/position as Lukaku, he wouldn't be in the top 10 and likely not in the top 20. Would being the 21st best striker in the world still be an impressive thing? Yes.
 

roonster09

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No. Rashford scored just 13 non-penalty goals in 43 matches played as you can see on Transfermarkt:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marcus-rashford/bilanz/spieler/258923

vs Chelsea: 5 goals, 12 games played
vs M.City: 4 goals, 10 games played
vs Liverpool: 3 goals, 8 games played
vs Arsenal: 2 goals, 7 games played
vs Spurs: 3 goals, 6 games played
= 17 goals - 4 penalties = 13 non-penalty goals -> 1 every 3,30 games played.

Mediocre numbers and very similar to Lukaku (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/romelu-lukaku/bilanz/spieler/96341)
Yesterday game is perfect example of why Rashford shouldnt be compared to Lukaku.

Vs big clubs he scores, assists, creates chances, takes on defenders to unsettle the line, wins penalties taking on defenders on his own.

Ignoring all that and then just compare his goals per game when he was playing as winger for majority of the time and also as a sub is just awful argument.

Just take last season as example
Vs Chelsea, he scored goal from open play and also penalty which he won out of nothing.
Vs Leicester, he scored the pen which he won
Vs Liverpool, he scored goal from open play
Vs Spurs, he scored goal from open play and also penalty which he won out of nothing taking on multiple defenders
Vs City, he scored penalty which he won taking on multiple defenders.
Vs Chelsea in league cup, he scored penalty and also from freekick from around 30-35 yards
Vs City in league cup, he scored from open play

And he did most of these things without Pogba who was out for 3/4th of the season and before Bruno was signed. Even Martial was injured for few of the games, so he was playing alongside Lingard, Pereira, James.

'Ignoring penalties' is a very poor argument, he wins lot of penalties. So he plays big role in the outcome of the game.