I honestly don't see anyone being better than him for a few more years, considering he's already in a separate level to others with only Ronaldo being near him in overall play, talent, and worth ethic, plus I do not see any future players getting to that level at the moment (could change in a couple years). Unless he has a terrible injury or dramatic drop in play, there's not much to knock him off the current pedestal.
Ronaldo Watch
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If that happens that he's the best every year for some time, then let him win it every year then, as cheesy said. That's the purpose of the award. You sound like a communist.
Just kidding.On the Messi vs Sneijder one, I think that example is a perfect one of why players shouldn't be judged first and foremost of what they've won that year. Sure, Sneijder won the Champions League that year and got to the final of the World Cup with Holland that year as well being heavily influential, but there were little things here and there that could've easily changed things, which neither player had an influence on.
Was it Sneijder's football ability who caused the Brazilian implosion in the quarter finals which resulted in the Dutch going through, considering they may not have gotten through otherwise? No. Was it Messi or Sneijder who dictated the World Cup group stages draws each team would get, meaning that one would meet Germany while the other met Brazil in the quarter finals? No. Was it Messi who convinced Maradona to commit tactical suicide in the quarter finals, which was largely responsible for Argentina going out? No. Was it Sneijder's influence that caused a legitimate goal in the semi final last minute between Inter and Barca to be chopped off which ended up sending Inter through instead of Barcelona? No.
Of course, those are just a few examples and you could probably come back with some to further set back Messi, but that's not my point. The point is that the fine lines between success and no success are incredibly fine. That's why judging players on how they have played is a much better way of doing it than their success. Success can be used as an extra factor in the mix, but it by no means should be the deciding one.
Was it Sneijder's football ability who caused the Brazilian implosion in the quarter finals which resulted in the Dutch going through, considering they may not have gotten through otherwise? No. Was it Messi or Sneijder who dictated the World Cup group stages draws each team would get, meaning that one would meet Germany while the other met Brazil in the quarter finals? No. Was it Messi who convinced Maradona to commit tactical suicide in the quarter finals, which was largely responsible for Argentina going out? No. Was it Sneijder's influence that caused a legitimate goal in the semi final last minute between Inter and Barca to be chopped off which ended up sending Inter through instead of Barcelona? No.
Of course, those are just a few examples and you could probably come back with some to further set back Messi, but that's not my point. The point is that the fine lines between success and no success are incredibly fine. That's why judging players on how they have played is a much better way of doing it than their success. Success can be used as an extra factor in the mix, but it by no means should be the deciding one.
Well then, if he is able to sustain his current level and play as well as he has been doing, then he deserves it. It's not easy for a player to go out and score 50+ goals a season consistently, in case you didn't know.
i really dont understand what you are asking
Rather weak argument to bring up world cup draws, opposition not performing, refereeing decisions, et al in an attempt to diminish a player's performances.
If you want to bring up goals, shouldn't we discount Barca's against Chelsea in 2009, thus eliminating Barca from the final, and all the trophies the club (and Messi) won that year, and most likely elevating another player to the award in 2009?
Or would many of us being United fans be bitching and moaning about Messi winning the awards in 2009 (ala Kaka in 2007) despite United possibly having beaten Chelsea in the final a second year running with Ronaldo having a great calender year?
Did you read my post fully? I said that there probably are plenty of examples that would set back Messi too, I admitted that. I said myself that it wasn't a post justifying in itself why Messi won in 2010, but why a player shouldn't win just based on honours that year, as it's a flawed concept. That was the whole idea of my post. It wasn't a justification for Messi winning it in 2010, and you'd have seen that if you read it fully.
you mix team performance with player performance
best team wins tournaments, best player wins BPITW
no brainer
It's not called the BPITW. And the BPITW hasn't always won the awards in a calendar year. Or do you honestly believe Cannovaro was the BPITW in 2006?
no, i dont think Cannavaro was the BPITW in 2006
that doesnt change the fact that the award should be given to the BPITW instead of to the best player in the team that won something meaningfull that year
i still think that messi was the best player in 2010 despite not wining the WC or the CL, as i think that ronaldo was the best in 2009 even if he hadnt win the CL
How the vote went in any particular year is irrelevant to what the award is for. It is for the best player in the world over a given year, and that's a fact. You can't change its meaning just because you feel a certain play in a certain year was voted for other reasons.
Well of course you do, no bias there, marco.
Edit: Just saw you threw in Ronaldo 2009, granted I felt the difference was Barca won the final and then a few more trophies than United.
Edit: Just saw you threw in Ronaldo 2009, granted I felt the difference was Barca won the final and then a few more trophies than United.
It must not be for the BPITW then, or the players/managers would vote in such manner, right? Not alleviate from the voting in some years because a player won the World Cup.
yes, bias, as every player that voted for messi in 2010
we can agree or disagree about who was the best player, but there's no argument on what should be taken on account when decided who should be the winner
and it should have nothing to do in winning this or that trophy
Was referring to you mentioning your fellow Argie in 2010, of course you would feel such way. Though I somehow doubt you felt such for Ronaldo in 2009 despite saying such.
When the BPITW comes up less in the club/country front, why shouldn't a player who had a tremendous year not have his club/country trophy haul considered and possibly the deciding factor?
Why wouldn't Ronaldo winning La Liga with a slightly less statistical season than Messi, and possibly Euro to top it off, not equate to winning the awards?
So basically, it should be about the player's statistics and not his contributions to his club/country winning trophies (the ultimate goal for a player), thus not a team sport but an individual sport?
You know what, forget it. I give up.
Ronaldo can still win it you know. There seems to be a bit of a campaign to get him the trophy too, maybe people will be sick of seeing Messi win it?
It shouldnt go on team achievements though, just watch with your own eyes and decide who was the best. Over the past 4 years its been Messi, simple as that for me.
in saying that this is the tightest its been since he first won it, CR7 has a decent shot.
It shouldnt go on team achievements though, just watch with your own eyes and decide who was the best. Over the past 4 years its been Messi, simple as that for me.
in saying that this is the tightest its been since he first won it, CR7 has a decent shot.
i think that ronaldo 2009 is comparable to any of the best messi's seasonsWas referring to you mentioning your fellow Argie in 2010, of course you would feel such way. Though I somehow doubt you felt such for Ronaldo in 2009 despite saying such.
When the BPITW comes up less in the club/country front, why shouldn't a player who had a tremendous year not have his club/country trophy haul considered and possibly the deciding factor?
Why wouldn't Ronaldo winning La Liga with a slightly less statistical season than Messi, and possibly Euro to top it off, not equate to winning the awards?
So basically, it should be about the player's statistics and not his contributions to his club/country winning trophies (the ultimate goal for a player), thus not a team sport but an individual sport?
but i also think that he hasn't produce in such a wonderfull way since then
sometimes, i might sound harsh on ronaldo, but i love the guy, and i only do it to annoy cal
I'll have to be honest. Bar Arsenal away in the CL semi I didnt think that was a brilliant season by Ronaldos recent standards.
Hes done unbelievably well for Madrid, its cliche now, but take Messi away and he'd be winning it by a land slide
But yet it probably would have been Ronaldo winning the awards in 2009 had United triumphed in the final, whether being the BPITW or not.
oops, i just realize i wrote 2009 when in fact it was 2007/2008
anyway, he scored 42 goals that season, he was the best player in the best team and he performed briliantly in the hardest league of all and in the most important club international competition
Someone (with a lot of time on his hands) analysis Ronaldo , squashing the myth of him not being a big game player:
http://www.just-football.com/2012/0..._campaign=Feed:+Just-football+(Just-Football)
http://www.just-football.com/2012/0..._campaign=Feed:+Just-football+(Just-Football)
Rio Ferdinand being interviewed before England got knocked out.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/euro2012/article4389677.ece
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/euro2012/article4389677.ece
So what's the summary (consensus) of his European exploits?
Personally, I thought he was a bit hit and miss. 2 OK/average performances against Germany/Denmark. 2 great performances against the Dutch and the Czech's.
A bit of a let down last night (though credit to Spain). A pity he's missed the chance to push Messi a bit more in the Ballon D'or stakes, which I now feel is probably all but wrapped up.
At the end of the day, you're only as good as your team allows you to be I guess - hence Messi and Ronaldo's total domination at club level and their (relative) struggles at international level.
Personally, I thought he was a bit hit and miss. 2 OK/average performances against Germany/Denmark. 2 great performances against the Dutch and the Czech's.
A bit of a let down last night (though credit to Spain). A pity he's missed the chance to push Messi a bit more in the Ballon D'or stakes, which I now feel is probably all but wrapped up.
At the end of the day, you're only as good as your team allows you to be I guess - hence Messi and Ronaldo's total domination at club level and their (relative) struggles at international level.
You summed it up.
2 poor performances, 2 great performances. 1 underwhelming performance.
I think getting to play against a crumbling Dutch side was a god send because his confidence looked gone after the Denmark game. You could see against the Czechs it was the exact opposite, full confidence and pushing his side.
2 poor performances, 2 great performances. 1 underwhelming performance.
I think getting to play against a crumbling Dutch side was a god send because his confidence looked gone after the Denmark game. You could see against the Czechs it was the exact opposite, full confidence and pushing his side.
He tormented Spanish defence last night. Was very good. The only thing missing was a goal.
I thought he was excellent last night apart from Freekicks and that one chance at the end which was messed up a little by the guy who passed the ball to him.
Overall I think he did very well. Scored goals and performed well in the last 3 games. I think you can't fault Portugal as a whole. They did really well. If they had a striker they'd be lethal and Ronaldo and Nani would have more to show for their exploits during the tournament.
Overall I think he did very well. Scored goals and performed well in the last 3 games. I think you can't fault Portugal as a whole. They did really well. If they had a striker they'd be lethal and Ronaldo and Nani would have more to show for their exploits during the tournament.
He was very good but his free kicks are ridiculously stupid, I mean the ones on the side where it'd be so much better to powerfully whip it in.
In what way?
He gave him the ball, he had a clear effort on goal. I thought he was going to bury the effort
The ball was behind him so he lost a fraction of second by controlling it from behind, that fraction of second was key for him to get a better shooting position and maybe hit the target.
The timing of passes creates or destroys goalscoring opportunities
The timing of passes creates or destroys goalscoring opportunities
Personally thought he could have played it a bit more forward for him to run onto.
I thought Ronaldo made the wrong choice there. He went for a bit of glory but they had a guy free on the other side. Literally.
Oh well, he tried to take responsibility and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Oh well, he tried to take responsibility and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
looking at it again you're right, he didnt put enough weight on the pass. Still thought he'd bury it.
Surprisingly or not, Ramos' free kick was far better than Ronaldo's.
Yep. Not saying Ronaldo did well with it rather that the chance should have been less complicated and hurried as it got. But these things happen in football. Iniesta missed an absolute sitter.
Was hugely impressed by his performance yesterday. It's usually very difficult for attackers to shine against Spain/Barca's pressing game as Nani found out yesterday.
If you had to rate his performance, overall in the tournament Amol?
I'd probably give him around the 7/10 mark (maybe a 7.5), considering his awful start.
He was clearly high on confidence after the Dutch match though and like you mentioned, if Portugal could produce even 1 decent'ish CF, a ton of the pressure will be taken off his (and Nani's) shoulders.
I'd probably give him around the 7/10 mark (maybe a 7.5), considering his awful start.
He was clearly high on confidence after the Dutch match though and like you mentioned, if Portugal could produce even 1 decent'ish CF, a ton of the pressure will be taken off his (and Nani's) shoulders.
Portugal's pressing was better in the first 90 minutes. 2 days less rest for Spain showed its effects. Most of the game was being played in Spain's half. Let's start talking about things that actually happened and not things that on paper should happen, eh?
Whose talking about Spain? I'm talking about Ronaldo's performance. Let's start talking about things that are actually relevant to the thread, eh?
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