Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez

He joined on a 2 year loan with an option to buy and was good for us in 2008, very good in fact and majorly contributed to one of the clubs best ever seasons. The season after not so good but still very decent. And then he chose to not to sign permanently as he got a more lucrative offer elsewhere. Those are the facts.

They are indeed.

Lad tramped off to moneybags city and started waving a banner celebrating Fergie's metaphorical demise.

Then tramped off from 115 because Fergie wasn't arsed.

Still a quality player but am not at all unhappy he wasn't made permanent.
 
We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.
 
We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.
Samuel Etoo was way too old. Defoe wasn't a top player.
 
We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.
That was never going to happen though because we already spent a lot of money to buy Berbatov the previous season, the idea was for Rooney and Berbatov to play up front (Hernandez then came in and did better than expected). Valencia was also a good signing I would say, but could have used that money to bulk up the midfield with someone like Vidal and maybe another winger on the other side to compete with Nani. Unfortunately I think Berbatov was a poor signing for a lot of reasons, Rooney went well with pace players and Berbatov's lack of dynamism and pressing was not made for the way football was going at that point. I don't think Defoe was any better than Chicharito was in those post-Ronaldo years.

Also in the 2 years after Ronaldo and Tevez left, United were as close to winning the CL as ever. If Rooney doesn't get injured in the best form of his life in 2009/10, maybe we beat Bayern, it was a close one. Then it's Lyon in the semi-final for a final against Inter, which was more winnable than one against Barca. Then 2011 we get to the final again but it's so hard to beat Barca in that era.
 
I don't think there's much of an argument against Tevez not playing enough. It was a constant topic during the second season. He scored 4 goals against Blackburn and then got dropped 3 days later.
 
The Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha combo worked much better. Mainly because Rooney and Tevez were quite similar players who liked to occupy similar positions.

Yes, and Rooney was the much better version of Tevez.

I find some of the discussion around Tevez weird, watched every minute of his Utd career and don't remember him him being anywhere near as good as some make out. Often his technical level was quite poor, or perhaps a better way to put it would be there was far too much variability minute to minute within games, we ragged on Rooney's erratic touch, but it was levels more consistent than Tevez.

He was a workhorse who pulled out some moments of great quality but he ended up a better player for City than he ever was for Utd.
 
Yes, and Rooney was the much better version of Tevez.

I find some of the discussion around Tevez weird, watched every minute of his Utd career and don't remember him him being anywhere near as good as some make out. Often his technical level was quite poor, or perhaps a better way to put it would be there was far too much variability minute to minute within games, we ragged on Rooney's erratic touch, but it was levels more consistent than Tevez.

He was a workhorse who pulled out some moments of great quality but he ended up a better player for City than he ever was for Utd.

Rooney wasn't a much better version than Tevez as aplayer, yet indeed Tevez played more like a second fiddle and frantic bull for United, but that wasn't his entire package, Tevez version was better not only after, but before United in Boca and Corinthians.
The thing it's that he was doing that to gain a place, once that place was not gain, everything started to fall on every aspect, more given his volatile character and many of the stuff going on talked before in this thread.

The main thing here it's that Fergie later went for another type of player, that didn't quite have that combination that usually wins crowds in Man Utd and every year after bar some exception like Ibra, Cavani, there wasn't many players that aside the technical ability, had that xtra grinta and winner attitude, it was some sort of turning point. That is why that period it's so well regarded and a bit over the top generating nostalgia.
 
Yes, and Rooney was the much better version of Tevez.

I find some of the discussion around Tevez weird, watched every minute of his Utd career and don't remember him him being anywhere near as good as some make out. Often his technical level was quite poor, or perhaps a better way to put it would be there was far too much variability minute to minute within games, we ragged on Rooney's erratic touch, but it was levels more consistent than Tevez.

He was a workhorse who pulled out some moments of great quality but he ended up a better player for City than he ever was for Utd.
Maybe that was the purpose of Tevez. His attributes made the team tick. A bit like Liverpool at the moment. You don't need 11 world class players. Whatever you want to say, the 2008-09 team were 90 mins from untouchable greatness. Back to back PL and CL wins.
 
Steve man, you can talk all you want that there was an agreement, a deal, whatever, but if the player asks for a meeting to be bought after his first year and Fergie says: "look let's wait till the end of the agreement and we sit back again and we'll buy you", the player in question won't like it but it's easier to deal, than at the same time Fergie saying "...ahhh BTW I almost forgot, I'm buying Berbatov for your role, I need competition, bye, seeya at the end of the year Carlos".
That just speaks volume of what he thought of Tevez as a player and the message he was giving to him. Later you can talk all you want about quantity of matches, yet Fergie ended managing the minutes of both Berba and Carlos in the EPL in a way that in retrospective, at moments might unsettled both.
At the end of the day he was buying a new high profile player with the ammount of money he could have used to buy Carlos, as simple as that, good or bad bizzness, agreement or not, he decided to play that card because he already had an agreement with Carlos and in the way he managed it, he thought he was buying the player he liked more, while still keeping Carlos in the team, thinking that Carlos was some sort of Angel Correa.
BTW nothing assures that at the end of the loan Ferguson was absolutely buying Tevez, specially if Berba had a freaking extraordinary season, he ended trying to seal the deal because both players had good seasons and more than probably thinking that no one would make a huge offer to Carlos (less in the way he managed the rotation with both players).

That affair it has all the numbers to not end well, worse with fellas of the character of Carlos and Fergie. In general players are reluctant, does not like it, but mostly accept to compete with a new fella when they are already in the team, not that much on loan and after such a great season and when they have the sort of personality Carlos has. It's worse the scenario in those days when clearly Carlos clearly didn't want to live the whole loan deal a la West Ham all over again and of course in the mix there would be other Clubs asking for him.

Fergie could have bought Carlos (and accelerate the process) and get Berba on a loan, it was perhaps the most reasonable way to deal with that situation. He would have been buying the player that already worked for him, that the team accepted and liked and add competition and more weapons after loosing CR, while testing him if he works or not (on a personal note, God knows what was on Alex mind to switch to a player of Berba's type of personality, coming from fellas like Rooney, CR and Tevez, certainly a lot easier to manage than those three, like Berba ended being, yet he certainly started a trend of buying players with not precisly the winner mentality of Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, CR, Tevez and cia). Yet we also have to understand that Fergie wanted Berba badly and that the Bulgarian was already wanted by many, so Fergie tried to play his cards with what already had in his pocket (the Carlos 2 years loan) and assure his position to obtain Berba by buying him before someone buys him first. A loan ain't that attractive. It's ok, it's perfectly understandeable and he is Sir Alex, he gets what he WANTS always, what it's clear too, it's that he was getting into some grey water taking in account the one who still was on loan that can end wrong (like it ended).

Regarding your opinion it's absolutely OK and beyond understandable that if you think like Fergie that Carlos didn't warrant all that hussle, that Carlos should have play the good boy with a coach of the stature of Alex, that even maybe going for Berba was the better option. Also that perhaps Carlos it's plainly just an ok player and a cnut, there is nothing wrong with that. Yet thinking that the situation would have absolutely end in a great happy family, taking in account the personalities of Alex and Carlos and how both managed the situation? nah.
This wasn't a case where even as horrible as it ended in later years, both parts played it nicely and smooth, that is as clear as clean water.
I think Fergie thought he meant sthg extra for Carlos, like it would happen to most players with the "Boss" thing, not only it wasn't the case, Carlos ended shithousing the whole thing a couple of years later.

Bollocks.

I assume, I'm not reading all that.
 
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I’m not going to be arguing with you and this is going to be my last reply to you in this thread. You’re so disingenuous in your arguments, it’s actually laughable now.

Here is what I mentioned:


Fact:
1. Tevez played 2300 minutes in CL and Premier League as compared to 3330 the season before

2. In our CL run to the final, Tevez was on the bench or substituted a whooping 9/13 times when he was one of the most important players the season before. He was literally on the bench in every other game.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/carlos-tevez/leistungsdaten/spieler/4276/plus/0?saison=2008

No I'm not, it might seem that way though because I'm simply sticking to facts and not sharing an opinion skewed heavily towards Tevez being a victim of some sort.

It doesn't matter which games he did or didn't play, if Tevez was upset about 'lack of playing time' despite playing in 50+ games then he's eight dumb as feck and/or a drama queen.

It’s okay to accept that one can be wrong sometimes. There is no need to take it personally and keep going on and on.

;)

Sound advice.
 
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They are indeed.

Lad tramped off to moneybags city and started waving a banner celebrating Fergie's metaphorical demise.

Then tramped off from 115 because Fergie wasn't arsed.

Still a quality player but am not at all unhappy he wasn't made permanent.

That's the thing, he was a good player, very good at times. But not nearly good enough to justify all the baggage that came with him. He was pretty unprofessional off the pitch, he didn't like living in Manchester and he was a bit of drama queen who didn't like having to deal with competition. So we were better off without him in hindsight.

United didn't suffer the season after from him leaving truth be told. We moved to more of a 433 formation for most of the season and Rooney moved up front and scored 35 goals. I think Berbatov and Owen both got into double figures as well.
 
No I'm not, it might seem that way though because I'm simply sticking to facts and sharing an opinion skewed heavily towards Tvez being a victom of some sort.

It doesn't matter which games he did or didn't play, if Tevez was upset about 'lack of playing time' despite playing in 50+ games then he's eight dumb as feck and/or a drama queen.



;)

BOLLOCKS 2, the Return

Yes you are, no one it's saying Tevez is a plain victim.
What it's said it's there is a middle ground where Alex tried to pull it his way with some questionable decisions regarding the outcome if he trully wanted to keep him.
So acting like if Alex did everything right and act suprised of how it ended, it's not precisly a great reading of the whole scenario.

BTW: Tevez as difficult and for himself he was his whole carreer, doesn't make Alex an easy going fella with no questionable behaviour regarding the management of many situations with Keane, Becks, Rooney and a large etc...and yeap, Fergie acted not dumb, but full of himself in this whole situation and later as a drama queen when he had to deal with the new status from City he helped to create.

You can add BOLLOCKS 3 The end. It seems that there would not be any middle ground in this chat.
 
BOLLOCKS 2, the Return

Yes you are, no one it's saying Tevez is a plain victim.
What it's said it's there is a middle ground where Alex tried to pull it his way with some questiobnable decisions regarding the outcome if he trully wanted to keep him.
So acting like if Alex did everything right and act suprised of how it ended, it's not precisly a great reading of the whole scenario.

BTW: Tevez as difficult and for himself he was his whole carreer, doesn't make Alex an easy going fella with no questionable behaviour regarding the management of many situations with Keane, Becks, Rooney and a large etc...and yeap, Fergie acted not dumb, but full of himself in this whole situation and later as a drama queen when he had to deal with the new status from City he helped to create.

You can add BOLLOCKS 3 The end. It seems that there would not be any middle ground in this chat.

I'm not reading this mate sorry, I didn't read your last post either if I'm being honest I just assumed it was a load of bollocks.
 
I'm not reading this mate sorry, I didn't read your last post either if I'm being honest I just assumed it was a load of bollocks.

Yeap, you are an expert, you know those first hand
 
@stevoc , I do disagree that he wasn't worth the baggage and that we didn't suffer the following season. It's all subjective but I think we win a 4th league in a row if he stays. Who knows about Europe, too.

Rooney was world class that season, but - and correct me if I'm wrong - after he suffered that injury in the 1st leg against Bayern, he didn't score again that season, and no one else stepped up. I believe Tevez would have.

I get those saying they didn't rate him as highly here because he indeed went up another level at City and Juventus, but I personally thought he was brilliant here regardless. His partnership with Rooney was especially a highlight.
 
@stevoc , I do disagree that he wasn't worth the baggage and that we didn't suffer the following season. It's all subjective but I think we win a 4th league in a row if he stays. Who knows about Europe, too.

Rooney was world class that season, but - and correct me if I'm wrong - after he suffered that injury in the 1st leg against Bayern, he didn't score again that season, and no one else stepped up. I believe Tevez would have.

I get those saying they didn't rate him as highly here because he indeed went up another level at City and Juventus, but I personally thought he was brilliant here regardless. His partnership with Rooney was especially a highlight.

As is your right mate. But bear in mind Rooney only missed one game after that Bayern match through injury. Of the 5 league game we had left we won 4 and drew 1.

So do you really see Tevez being happy playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle all season and not kicking up another stink (considering Rooney's form and the switch to 433)?
 
@stevoc , I do disagree that he wasn't worth the baggage and that we didn't suffer the following season. It's all subjective but I think we win a 4th league in a row if he stays. Who knows about Europe, too.

Rooney was world class that season, but - and correct me if I'm wrong - after he suffered that injury in the 1st leg against Bayern, he didn't score again that season, and no one else stepped up. I believe Tevez would have.

I get those saying they didn't rate him as highly here because he indeed went up another level at City and Juventus, but I personally thought he was brilliant here regardless. His partnership with Rooney was especially a highlight.

This thread would not even exist if that trio (and the special bond the two talented pitbulls shared) wasn't special even if aterwards Man Utd still won titles and Berba didn't do bad at all. It was a turning point and that is why still it's view with nostalgia. It speaks volume of how cool was that period that still till today many people feels that it was a missed opportunity. Even after all the hate Tevez received due to his antics and shithousery while in the meantime he helped City to become a real contender.

All in all, it's also true that given how Carlos managed his whole carreer, everywhere, not just in Europe like it's said here, he could have end in a problem down the road. He left Boca in a glimpse almost without saying goodbye, he left Corinthians in a fecking turmoil and even in Juve where he mostly behaved well, he said he was going back to Boca and ended in China.

So more than probably at some point, sthg would have happened...yet at the same time Carlos NEVER, took a Robin role in his life, bar his time in Man Utd, nor acted as calm as he did in his first season with Man Utd. He really wanted to be part of the club, so there was a light in the tunnel to at least have a Juve period there. Yet who knows...
 
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As is your right mate. But bear in mind Rooney only missed one game after that Bayern match through injury. Of the 5 league game we had left we won 4 and drew 1.

So do you really see Tevez being happy playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle all season and not kicking up another stink (considering Rooney's form and the switch to 433)?
It's all guesswork, and I'm happy to admit this may be a rose-tinted glasses perspective, but I think we would have gone back to the Rooney-Tevez partnership had he stayed. Most likely not in the big European games as Fergie had already figured out that packing the midfield was the way to go in the previous season (unless he moves Rooney to the left like in the 08/09 season), but we still played with two strikers a fair bit that season so who knows. Especially if Tevez progresses here as he did at City that season.

I just had a quick look and transfermarkt has Rooney missing two games. It's not much, no, but keep in mind we only lost the league by 1 point (technically 2 as I think Chelsea had a better GD) and those two games he missed were a loss to Chelsea and a goalless draw against Blackburn. If the Rooney of that season is fit, or we have Tevez, I think we do better here and that's enough. Of course, had we kept Tevez, the season doesn't pan out the same way in general, but it's just an interesting hypothetical.

This thread would not even exist if that trio (and the special bond the two talented pitbulls shared) wasn't special even if aterwards Man Utd still won titles and Berba didn't do bad at all. It was a turning point and that is why still it's view with nostalgia. It speaks volume of how cool was that period that still till today many people feels that it was a missed opportunity. Even after all the hate Tevez received due to his antics and shithousery while in the meantime he helped City to become a real contender.

All in all, it's also true that given how Carlos managed his whole carreer, everywhere, not just in Europe like it's said here, he could have end in a problem down the road. He left Boca in a glimpse almost without saying goodbye, he left Corinthians in a fecking turmoil and even in Juve where he mostly behaved well, he said he was going back to Boca and ended in China.

So more than probably at some point, sthg would have happened...yet at the same time Carlos NEVER, took a Robin role in his life, bar his time in Man Utd, nor acted as calm as he did in his first season with Man Utd. He really wanted to be part of the club, so there was a light in the tunnel to at least have a Juve period there. Yet who knows...
Good points! When you look at his history, it seems like him having problems here would have been inevitable regardless, but, as you also say, I still get the sense that his first season here was the period he most enjoyed in Europe even though West Ham, City and Juve fans all remember him more fondly than us.
 
It's all guesswork, and I'm happy to admit this may be a rose-tinted glasses perspective, but I think we would have gone back to the Rooney-Tevez partnership had he stayed. Most likely not in the big European games as Fergie had already figured out that packing the midfield was the way to go in the previous season (unless he moves Rooney to the left like in the 08/09 season), but we still played with two strikers a fair bit that season so who knows. Especially if Tevez progresses here as he did at City that season.

What are you basing that on though? When you bear in mind Ferguson despite making Berbatov the club record signing the season before still decided to go 433 more often than not with Rooney up front virtually all season.

I just had a quick look and transfermarkt has Rooney missing two games. It's not much, no, but keep in mind we only lost the league by 1 point (technically 2 as I think Chelsea had a better GD) and those two games he missed were a loss to Chelsea and a goalless draw against Blackburn. If the Rooney of that season is fit, or we have Tevez, I think we do better here and that's enough. Of course, had we kept Tevez, the season doesn't pan out the same way in general, but it's just an interesting hypothetical.

Yes fair enough for one game he just wasn't selected, can't remember why but he was fit. Tevez only scored 4-5 league goals the season before. So there's no guarantee he would have made much difference.
Good points! When you look at his history, it seems like him having problems here would have been inevitable regardless, but, as you also say, I still get the sense that his first season here was the period he most enjoyed in Europe even though West Ham, City and Juve fans all remember him more fondly than us.

He may well have enjoyed his first season at United. But I don't think he was ever happy living in Manchester and to be honest I don't think United signing him permanently was ever really an option. His owner Kia had close ties to Abu Dhabi even back in 2008 and brokered their takeover of City. It's not a stretch to think the deal for Tevez was probably hammered out with them in summer 2008 as they offered to double the fee/wages United had agreed. And he signed for them pretty quickly in the 2009 window. I could be wrong but I think I remember Ferguson saying in his book that he and Gill suspected that he'd agreed to go to City early into the 08/09 season.
 
I post this from time to time so we don’t get wistfully nostalgic about Tevez:

____________________________________________________

After hearing Tevez spout off shit for so long I decided to put together a timeline of all that was said and done.


Here is why Carlos Tevez is a mercenary mary poppin that deserves no sympathy:


I still see alot of United fan's, blaming United and Ferguson for the loss of Carlos Tevez to our biggest rivals. If we take a look at the timeline of events, is it so clear?


August 2007 - Tevez signs for United. United's attack consists of Rooney, Saha, Tevez, Ronaldo.
A
May 2008 - United lift European Cup to compliment the Premiership trophy.

August 2008 - Perenial Injury victim Louis Saha looks on his way out as a squad with just Rooney and Tevez as recognised strikers with Ronaldo (who it is now known was playing his last season with us, something Fergie already knew).

Ferguson knew he would need to add another striker and as he is a manager always looking to the future he felt another dimension
was needed which is why he felt he should bring in Berbatov.


August 2008 - Berbatov signs, seeing that we have Rooney - Tevez and Berbatov with a soon to be leaving Ronaldo as our attack.


December 5th 2008 -


So..... We weren't making any effort to sign him? December 2008 and Carlos and his agent are being "difficult".


December 16th 2008 -
January 4th 2009 -

April 2nd 2009 -
May 10th 2009 -



So what changed Carlos? You were happy to wait until the season was over... "not about money"? No one has said it was.... could it be that City have offered you alot of money and you know the talk will soon start changing to that of money.....

Jun 27th - United are understood to have agreed a £25m deal for Carlos Tevez who's contract runs out on Jun 30th.

Jun 30th - Tevez understood to have agreed a deal 2 weeks ago with Manchester City.

July 14th 2009 - Tevez signs for City on a £150,000 a week contract for a reported £45m.





So lets get this straight.

1. We talk contracts, Tevez and Joorbachin are impossible to negotiate with. Tevez is happy with how he is treated.

2. Tevez denys talk of any contract talks but says he has agreed with Ferguson to to talk about it after the season has finished...

3. Before the season is finished, he starts talking about how money is not an issue but they have never had any contract talks and this upsets him,
despite agreeing it is best to wait unitl the football is finished....

4.United then agree a deal with Joorbachin for Carlos Tevez, who is one of only three strikers at the club following the departure of Ronaldo to Madrid, but Tevez had already agreed a big money deal with City....

Of course it wasn't the money.

You are a mercenary mary poppin who took all the United fans for mugs, you disrespected Ferguson and still maintain that "you had no choice to leave United" and that we will regret not treating you better".

I hope you get run over by your own Bentley.

You and your crooked agent are an example of everything that is wrong with modern football, so it's more than fitting that you join City.

This post on the first page should be thread marked. Good player but one of the more dislikable players in our recent history.
 
What are you basing that on though? When you bear in mind Ferguson despite making Berbatov the club record signing the season before still decided to go 433 more often than not with Rooney up front virtually all season.

To be fair, I did preface that part by saying that I may be coming from a rose-tinted glasses POV so I'm more than happy to accept that I'm wrong here.

There are two things that play a part in why I think this this could have been a possibility, though. First, I think Tevez would have still naturally progressed into the player he became elsewhere, and had he become that good for us it would've been hard to leave him out.

Second reason being that I think having two strikers was always Fergie's preference. I think that in the 09/10 season, he knew the depth there wasn't ideal with Owen and Macheda not being to the required standard to start most games, so he opted against using that formation too much (although he still played it a fair bit).

After that season, he immediately reinforced the attack with Chicharito, and we went back to having two strikers being our preference outside of the really big games (though we did use two in our CL final against Barca!) until he retired, really. He always wanted 4 strikers he could trust, and I think having three quality ones in Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov (plus an Owen or Macheda for depth) would've been enough for him to continue favouring that formation for the most part.

Yes fair enough for one game he just wasn't selected, can't remember why but he was fit. Tevez only scored 4-5 league goals the season before. So there's no guarantee he would have made much difference.
Regarding the missed games, I was just going off transfermarkt there, mate, so I don't know. They just have the ankle injury as the reasons he missed both games.

You raise a fair point about his previous seasons goal tally, but the reasons I think he could've made a difference are, one, back to what I said before: I think he would've naturally progressed as a player here into what he became elsewhere. And two, he did have a habit of scoring some big goals and helping change games in general for us. Lyon, Roma, Liverpool, Blackburn, Spurs, etc. I think it's possible that during Rooney's absence/drop in form due to the injury, he could have popped up with some more big moments for us.

He may well have enjoyed his first season at United. But I don't think he was ever happy living in Manchester and to be honest I don't think United signing him permanently was ever really an option. His owner Kia had close ties to Abu Dhabi even back in 2008 and brokered their takeover of City. It's not a stretch to think the deal for Tevez was probably hammered out with them in summer 2008 as they offered to double the fee/wages United had agreed. And he signed for them pretty quickly in the 2009 window. I could be wrong but I think I remember Ferguson saying in his book that he and Gill suspected that he'd agreed to go to City early into the 08/09 season.
I won't argue with any of that! You're most likely right. It's a shame but oh well.

This post on the first page should be thread marked. Good player but one of the more dislikable players in our recent history.
Classic post, and I'll never argue against it.

For me, it's not about "I wish we had done the deal" when talking about him anyway. I accept that it was probably never going to happen. All I'm saying is that I would've liked to have seen this trio play together more than they ended up doing in the 08/09 season, and then the hypothetical "what if" had we kept them together.
 
To be fair, I did preface that part by saying that I may be coming from a rose-tinted glasses POV so I'm more than happy to accept that I'm wrong here.

There are two things that play a part in why I think this this could have been a possibility, though. First, I think Tevez would have still naturally progressed into the player he became elsewhere, and had he become that good for us it would've been hard to leave him out.

Second reason being that I think having two strikers was always Fergie's preference. I think that in the 09/10 season, he knew the depth there wasn't ideal with Owen and Macheda not being to the required standard to start most games, so he opted against using that formation too much (although he still played it a fair bit).

After that season, he immediately reinforced the attack with Chicharito, and we went back to having two strikers being our preference outside of the really big games (though we did use two in our CL final against Barca!) until he retired, really. He always wanted 4 strikers he could trust, and I think having three quality ones in Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov (plus an Owen or Macheda for depth) would've been enough for him to continue favouring that formation for the most part.


Regarding the missed games, I was just going off transfermarkt there, mate, so I don't know. They just have the ankle injury as the reasons he missed both games.

You raise a fair point about his previous seasons goal tally, but the reasons I think he could've made a difference are, one, back to what I said before: I think he would've naturally progressed as a player here into what he became elsewhere. And two, he did have a habit of scoring some big goals and helping change games in general for us. Lyon, Roma, Liverpool, Blackburn, Spurs, etc. I think it's possible that during Rooney's absence/drop in form due to the injury, he could have popped up with some more big moments for us.


I won't argue with any of that! You're most likely right. It's a shame but oh well.


Classic post, and I'll never argue against it.

For me, it's not about "I wish we had done the deal" when talking about him anyway. I accept that it was probably never going to happen. All I'm saying is that I would've liked to have seen this trio play together more than they ended up doing in the 08/09 season, and then the hypothetical "what if" had we kept them together.

Fair enough mate, I largely don't agree on how well Tevez would have did had he chose to stay. But I see where you're coming from.
 
We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.
'No value in the market'
 
I post this from time to time so we don’t get wistfully nostalgic about Tevez:

____________________________________________________

After hearing Tevez spout off shit for so long I decided to put together a timeline of all that was said and done.


Here is why Carlos Tevez is a mercenary mary poppin that deserves no sympathy:


I still see alot of United fan's, blaming United and Ferguson for the loss of Carlos Tevez to our biggest rivals. If we take a look at the timeline of events, is it so clear?


August 2007 - Tevez signs for United. United's attack consists of Rooney, Saha, Tevez, Ronaldo.
A
May 2008 - United lift European Cup to compliment the Premiership trophy.

August 2008 - Perenial Injury victim Louis Saha looks on his way out as a squad with just Rooney and Tevez as recognised strikers with Ronaldo (who it is now known was playing his last season with us, something Fergie already knew).

Ferguson knew he would need to add another striker and as he is a manager always looking to the future he felt another dimension
was needed which is why he felt he should bring in Berbatov.


August 2008 - Berbatov signs, seeing that we have Rooney - Tevez and Berbatov with a soon to be leaving Ronaldo as our attack.


December 5th 2008 -


So..... We weren't making any effort to sign him? December 2008 and Carlos and his agent are being "difficult".


December 16th 2008 -
January 4th 2009 -

April 2nd 2009 -
May 10th 2009 -



So what changed Carlos? You were happy to wait until the season was over... "not about money"? No one has said it was.... could it be that City have offered you alot of money and you know the talk will soon start changing to that of money.....

Jun 27th - United are understood to have agreed a £25m deal for Carlos Tevez who's contract runs out on Jun 30th.

Jun 30th - Tevez understood to have agreed a deal 2 weeks ago with Manchester City.

July 14th 2009 - Tevez signs for City on a £150,000 a week contract for a reported £45m.





So lets get this straight.

1. We talk contracts, Tevez and Joorbachin are impossible to negotiate with. Tevez is happy with how he is treated.

2. Tevez denys talk of any contract talks but says he has agreed with Ferguson to to talk about it after the season has finished...

3. Before the season is finished, he starts talking about how money is not an issue but they have never had any contract talks and this upsets him,
despite agreeing it is best to wait unitl the football is finished....

4.United then agree a deal with Joorbachin for Carlos Tevez, who is one of only three strikers at the club following the departure of Ronaldo to Madrid, but Tevez had already agreed a big money deal with City....

Of course it wasn't the money.

You are a mercenary mary poppin who took all the United fans for mugs, you disrespected Ferguson and still maintain that "you had no choice to leave United" and that we will regret not treating you better".

I hope you get run over by your own Bentley.

You and your crooked agent are an example of everything that is wrong with modern football, so it's more than fitting that you join City.

Cracking post

Should put an end to the Tevez being a victim myth.
 
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We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.
What should have happened is using the Ronaldo money to buy a world class midfielder.

We still scored enough goals post Ronaldo until 2013 to win trophies. The issue was the lack of quality in the midfield cost us in crucial moments (Barca 2011, City 2012, Real Madrid 2013).
 
We should have replaced Ronnie and Tevez much better with the transfer fee from Ronaldo. At least players with some of Ronnie and Tevez’s qualities of speed, trickery and power. Michael Owen, Bergeron were never going to cut it.

In hindsight we should have gotten Zlatan ibrahimovic, (younger versions) Edison Cavani, Samuel Etoo, or even someone like Jermaine Defoe.

It's great isn't it.

Zlatan went to Barcelona in the summer of 2009 for a fee of around £70-75m, £40m plus Eto'o. United's record fee at the time was £30m and the World Record Fee at the time was £49m and was only topped by the £80m we'd just received for Ronaldo. A near world record fee for a 27-28 year old Zlatan wouldn't have been a wise move I don't think. As it wasn't for Barca when they lost £40-50m on him by selling him back to Italy a season or two after.

That summer Cavani was a very young 21-22 year old who'd never scored more than 15 goals in a season and only reached double figures once.

Eto'o while a cracking player was also 27-28 at the time and while he had amazing seasons he wasn't knocking in 25-35 goals every season.

Defoe was also a 27 year old who'd scored 9 goals for Portsmouth the season before. He was a good player but not on the same level as the other 3 and I imagine his signing as a replacement for Ronaldo would have been met with let's say some skepticism.

Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Eto'o and Jermaine Defoe :confused:
 
Nonsense.

Napoli had Edinson Cavani scoring goals for fun for 3-4 years before psg got him.


Zlatan could have been purchased when he was scoring bucketloads for Ajax/ Barcelona / AC / Inter. We just had no balls for a big fee striker
Oh I'm not agreeing with it at all - I'm just saying that was the line Fergie used to say all the time which was clearly driven by the Glazers.

The market was changing and the owners refused to acknowledge it because they didn't want to spend money.
 
It's great isn't it.

Zlatan went to Barcelona in the summer of 2009 for a fee of around £70-75m, £40m plus Eto'o. United's record fee at the time was £30m and the World Record Fee at the time was £49m and was only topped by the £80m we'd just received for Ronaldo. A near world record fee for a 27-28 year old Zlatan wouldn't have been a wise move I don't think. As it wasn't for Barca when they lost £40-50m on him by selling him back to Italy a season or two after.

That summer Cavani was a very young 21-22 year old who'd never scored more than 15 goals in a season and only reached double figures once.

Eto'o while a cracking player was also 27-28 at the time and while he had amazing seasons he wasn't knocking in 25-35 goals every season.

Defoe was also a 27 year old who'd scored 9 goals for Portsmouth the season before. He was a good player but not on the same level as the other 3 and I imagine his signing as a replacement for Ronaldo would have been met with let's say some skepticism.

Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Eto'o and Jermaine Defoe :confused:
Interesting comment. I'd always say we didn't need any "superstar" striker in 2009. Maybe someone like Defoe would have actually been a useful backup and better than Michael Owen.

Rooney was world class as a number 9 and we could have easily won a double had he not got injured. None of the strikers that people mentioned would have come as a back up (Defoe aside maybe) so the conversation is pointless. We already had Berbatov aswell, there's an argument that Zlatan/Cavani would have struggled to reach their potential like he did.

Again, what cost us from maybe winning was the midfield. That's where Fergie's blindspot was.
 
Interesting comment. I'd always say we didn't need any "superstar" striker in 2009. Maybe someone like Defoe would have actually been a useful backup and better than Michael Owen.

Rooney was world class as a number 9 and we could have easily won a double had he not got injured. None of the strikers that people mentioned would have come as a back up (Defoe aside maybe) so the conversation is pointless. We already had Berbatov aswell, there's an argument that Zlatan/Cavani would have struggled to reach their potential like he did.

Again, what cost us from maybe winning was the midfield. That's where Fergie's blindspot was.

It wasn't really Fergies style even before the Glazers came to buy ready made superstars. So Zlatan at 28 for mega money wasn't realistic, Eto'o though not as expensive for similar reasons. I agree with Cavani would have been too young, he could have been a good back-up to Rooney but who knows how he would have settled. Historically Argentine and Uraguayans don't do too well in the north west of England. Cavani actually admitted he and his family found it difficult to settle in Manchester when he did eventually join, so I don't imagine he'd have handled it better a decade earlier.

Agree on the midfield in Fergies later years but at the time we still had Carrick 28, Fletcher 25, Scholes 35 so we were alright in that department in 2009.