Roy Hodgson | #OpenToWork

Shipperley

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There is one tiny glimmer of hope I am clinging to in all of this. In Roy’s first 18 months when he had some proper footballers like Cabaye and Loftus-Cheek to work with we played some very good stuff at times, including a 5-0 demolition of our next opponents Leicester. It wasn’t the Royball we knew by the end of his tenure where it’s fair to say most of the quality bar Zaha had left and not been adequately replaced.

Expecting we’ll now go back to a 4-4-2 and it’ll look something like:

Guaita
Clyne Guehi Andersen Mitchell
Olise Doucoure Lokonga Eze
Zaha Edouard

Vieira was never able to find a system that could accommodate all of Olise, Eze, Zaha and Edouard. Maybe - just maybe - this is it.
 

NotoriousISSY

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What did Kompany say? And what's it got to do with him as a manager of a club in a different division? Did he give his view on Championship strugglers Blackpool and Huddersfield sacking their managers and going for 'old' managers like Mick McCarthy and Neil Warnock? It happens at many clubs and at all levels at this time of year each season that they look to bring in experience to try and help in a relegation battle. Works for some, not for others. But it's a common enough situation.
Not sure what point you're making....a question was posed to him from the media :lol:

But blabber on
 

balaks

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He is a good manager and very experienced - they could do a lot worse for a stop gap to get them to the end of the season.
 

Tom Cato

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Roy is a proper, English manager. But man is this a mindnumbingly boring appointment. He will get the job done though.

Watford and Crystal Palace are different clubs. Watford would have gone down with Pep and Klopp hand in hand in the dressingroom
 

Bertie Wooster

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Not sure what point you're making....a question was posed to him from the media :lol:

But blabber on
My point shouldn't have been too difficult for you to understand. But I'll try again for you...

It was: why is Kompany - or any manager of teams in other leagues - talking (or being asked by the press) about managerial decisions made by clubs in other divisions?

Seems strange. What's it got to do with them what teams in other divisions do? It's not like they're a league rival or upcoming opponent, so why's it relevant to speak out / be asked about it?

Managers are getting sacked and appointed all the time - especially at this time of year. Why are they asking a manager from another division to voice their opinion about it as if that's in any way relevant?

Also, your initial post read as though Kompany had been critical of the sacking. A lot of those sackings are as much for reasons people on the outside won't know about - atmosphere on the training ground and in the dressing room, relationship between manager and players and manager and owners, etc. So seems strange for a manager of another club in a different division to have a strong view on it rather than just say: 'I can't really comment on that as I don't know the details and it's another club's decision to make'.
 
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Shipperley

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He is a good manager and very experienced - they could do a lot worse for a stop gap to get them to the end of the season.
Seen a few people suggest it’s a forward-thinking appointment from the perspective that none of Managers available right now are what we need (Gerrard, Lampard, Marsch etc) and we’re better off taking our time and getting the appointment right in the summer. If I had any faith in Parish and co to do that I’d feel a little better.
 

sincher

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I think Palace have underperformed this year. Most Palace fans think they need a new striker and I understand that, but I kinda feel like Edouard is really not bad at all with Mateta as backup, and often the tactics are just so negative that whoever plays up front is not really supported properly despite there being quite a few decent attacking midfielders in Olise, Eze and Zaha. I think the real problem is behind them in that they lack quality in central midfield. Defence is ok if a bit lacking in squad depth.
 

sincher

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There is one tiny glimmer of hope I am clinging to in all of this. In Roy’s first 18 months when he had some proper footballers like Cabaye and Loftus-Cheek to work with we played some very good stuff at times, including a 5-0 demolition of our next opponents Leicester. It wasn’t the Royball we knew by the end of his tenure where it’s fair to say most of the quality bar Zaha had left and not been adequately replaced.

Expecting we’ll now go back to a 4-4-2 and it’ll look something like:

Guaita
Clyne Guehi Andersen Mitchell
Olise Doucoure Lokonga Eze
Zaha Edouard

Vieira was never able to find a system that could accommodate all of Olise, Eze, Zaha and Edouard. Maybe - just maybe - this is it.
I do think that looks like your best XI, but I think you would be better lined up with Olise-Eze-Zaha in a three behind Edouard. Eze is good at 10.
 

Plant0x84

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Seems an odd decision to sack Viera and a backwards step to get in a caretaker until the end of the season. Even more so when that caretaker is Roy Hodgson who left the club cos he had done all he could with them.
 

Plant0x84

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I think Palace have underperformed this year. Most Palace fans think they need a new striker and I understand that, but I kinda feel like Edouard is really not bad at all with Mateta as backup, and often the tactics are just so negative that whoever plays up front is not really supported properly despite there being quite a few decent attacking midfielders in Olise, Eze and Zaha. I think the real problem is behind them in that they lack quality in central midfield. Defence is ok if a bit lacking in squad depth.
Palace seem to underperform perrenially. You look at their squad each year and think ‘decent, done good business, going places’ and then they battle relegation again. Not sure what the point is really!
 

Desert Eagle

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My point shouldn't have been too difficult for you to understand. But I'll try again for you...

It was: why is Kompany - or any manager of teams in other leagues - talking (or being asked by the press) about managerial decisions made by clubs in other divisions?

Seems strange. What's it got to do with them what teams in other divisions do? It's not like they're a league rival or upcoming opponent, so why's it relevant to speak out / be asked about it?

Managers are getting sacked and appointed all the time - especially at this time of year. Why are they asking a manager from another division to voice their opinion about it as if that's in any way relevant?

Also, your initial post read as though Kompany had been critical of the sacking. A lot of those sackings are as much for reasons people on the outside won't know about - atmosphere on the training ground and in the dressing room, relationship between manager and players and manager and owners, etc. So seems strange for a manager of another club in a different division to have a strong view on it rather than just say: 'I can't really comment on that as I don't know the details and it's another club's decision to make'.
The reason is there are very few black managers in the English league and even less high profile ones. A prominent black manager was sacked so obviously the press will ask other black managers for their opinion.
 

Shipperley

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I think Palace have underperformed this year. Most Palace fans think they need a new striker and I understand that, but I kinda feel like Edouard is really not bad at all with Mateta as backup, and often the tactics are just so negative that whoever plays up front is not really supported properly despite there being quite a few decent attacking midfielders in Olise, Eze and Zaha. I think the real problem is behind them in that they lack quality in central midfield. Defence is ok if a bit lacking in squad depth.
I’m with you, Edouard doesn’t look the same player that scored 2 on his debut, I think both he and Mateta have been shorn of confidence and suffered from some poor attacking coaching. I have faith in Edouard to score goals in the right setup, especially with a run of games.

Midfield has been a huge issue but Doucoure and Lokonga at least provide a solid base now. I think Roy has the tools to see us through.
 

Bertie Wooster

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The reason is there are very few black managers in the English league and even less high profile ones. A prominent black manager was sacked so obviously the press will ask other black managers for their opinion.
Ah. So hardly a subjective opinion then or an unsurprising take from him.

But managers get sacked all the time. When a person becomes a manager - black or white - they'll have to accept that being sacked from time to time is part and parcel of the career. Can't demand more of them being employed without accepting that'll also lead to more of them being sacked at times as well - given the average time span of managerial appointments. That's just the negative side of the career that all managers have to accept.
 

Desert Eagle

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Ah. So hardly a subjective opinion then or an unsurprising take from him.

But managers get sacked all the time. When a person becomes a manager - black or white - they'll have to accept that being sacked from time to time is part and parcel of the career. Can't demand more of them being employed without accepting that'll also lead to more of them being sacked as well - given the average time span of managerial appointments. That's just the negative side of the career that all managers have to accept.
I'm sure they all accept that, what they would like is the same rope and opportunity as their white counterparts which from a data and anecdotal perspective has been lacking. A lot of football club owners in England are rich white and possibly racist (most old rich people are) so their biases should be taken into account. Something like the Rooney rule would be a good thing for the English league.
 

WeePat

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My point shouldn't have been too difficult for you to understand. But I'll try again for you...

It was: why is Kompany - or any manager of teams in other leagues - talking (or being asked by the press) about managerial decisions made by clubs in other divisions?

Seems strange. What's it got to do with them what teams in other divisions do? It's not like they're a league rival or upcoming opponent, so why's it relevant to speak out / be asked about it?

Managers are getting sacked and appointed all the time - especially at this time of year. Why are they asking a manager from another division to voice their opinion about it as if that's in any way relevant?

Also, your initial post read as though Kompany had been critical of the sacking. A lot of those sackings are as much for reasons people on the outside won't know about - atmosphere on the training ground and in the dressing room, relationship between manager and players and manager and owners, etc. So seems strange for a manager of another club in a different division to have a strong view on it rather than just say: 'I can't really comment on that as I don't know the details and it's another club's decision to make'.
I don't understand what you're objecting to here. Managers get asked all the time about other managers. Kompany isn't going out of his way to comment on Vieira. He was asked, and he gave a thoughtful, informed answer. I actually really enjoyed his answer.

Ignore the clickbait title of the video and listen to what he says and I'm sure you'll find yourself either agreeing with what he says entirely or at the very least appreciating the kind of detailed answer he gave.

 

Bertie Wooster

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I'm sure they all accept that, what they would like is the same rope and opportunity as their white counterparts which from a data and anecdotal perspective has been lacking. A lot of football club owners in England are rich white and possibly racist (most old rich people are) so their biases should be taken into account. Something like the Rooney rule would be a good thing for the English league.
But what's all that got to do with this instance - where a team in a relegation battle, and on a terrible run of form including going 3 games without a shot on target, sack their manager after another defeat - this time losing to their rivals?

Many teams in a relegation battle, and on a terrible run of form, sack their manager in a desperate attempt to turn results around. This is just one of many instances. It's only the reaction that's different - according to your posts, because the manager is black in this case.
 
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JimmyWils

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It appears to be groundhog day.

Is this what is going to happen now, clubs sack managers so often that they've been through all the available possible PL managers, so they have to start again?
 

Maluco

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I have to say, I really don’t get the sympathy for Vieira. Squad was rejuvenated for his tenure, he had some very gifted footballers and every week he is playing Jordan Ayew (28 apps, 1 goal, 1 assist) and the Schulppster in a midfield three!

Gets beat, while looking terrible, and sets up the exact same way for the next game.

Palace were praised for the turnover of their squad post-Roy and despite a bright start, Vieira couldn’t help retreating into himself and playing terrible, cautious football.

Roy Kept them competitive with a poor side, lacking quality and is as good a choice of any until May.

For all the talk and comparison with Brighton in the thread, de Zerbi goes for it. Vieira didn’t have the courage to do that and that’s what cost him his job in the end.
 

Rhyme Animal

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I have to say, I really don’t get the sympathy for Vieira. Squad was rejuvenated for his tenure, he had some very gifted footballers and every week he is playing Jordan Ayew (28 apps, 1 goal, 1 assist) and the Schulppster in a midfield three!

Gets beat, while looking terrible, and sets up the exact same way for the next game.

Palace were praised for the turnover of their squad post-Roy and despite a bright start, Vieira couldn’t help retreating into himself and playing terrible, cautious football.

Roy Kept them competitive with a poor side, lacking quality and is as good a choice of any until May.

For all the talk and comparison with Brighton in the thread, de Zerbi goes for it. Vieira didn’t have the courage to do that and that’s what cost him his job in the end.
de Zerbi inherited a very different set of players and club.

Also let’s see how de Zerbi is doing this time next season - that’s a fairer time scale to compare to Viera.

Hodgson is very strange appointment. However the fixtures are easy now so they’ll be fine.

But I think they deserve to go down for this.
 

Bertie Wooster

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I don't understand what you're objecting to here. Managers get asked all the time about other managers. Kompany isn't going out of his way to comment on Vieira. He was asked, and he gave a thoughtful, informed answer. I actually really enjoyed his answer.

Ignore the clickbait title of the video and listen to what he says and I'm sure you'll find yourself either agreeing with what he says entirely or at the very least appreciating the kind of detailed answer he gave.

Thanks for the link. :)

Without Desert Eagle's context, I'd have been puzzled why he begins with the right sort of answer - I've not followed it, been more focused on my league, had to check their table, etc. And then precedes to say how much research he's done on their form, injuries, recent and future opponents, etc, and how he'll try not to be 'too emotional' and how it doesn't sit well with him, etc...

A lot of research and emotion for a manager from a different division who previously, according to him, wasn't following it that much - and just for the routine thing of 'club in relegation battle sack their manager' which happens all the time. And strange to talk about not trying to be emotional about it. You say managers get asked all the time about other sackings - I'm not sure how often they're asked about managers / clubs from different leagues, or how much research they do to try and defend that manager...

But Desert Eagle gives the reason for Kompany's strong views. Though that context also takes away any subjectivity regarding them and just becomes 'person with a bias on a subject sees things that way'. Which is hardly a surprising or subjective take.
 
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Maluco

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de Zerbi inherited a very different set of players and club.

Also let’s see how de Zerbi is doing this time next season - that’s a fairer time scale to compare to Viera.

Hodgson is very strange appointment. However the fixtures are easy now so they’ll be fine.

But I think they deserve to go down for this.
It’s fair to say de Zerbi entered a club that is better run, but that doesn’t let off Vieira for being extremely negative, chopping and changing attackers until settling on Ayew and not getting the most out of the talent at his disposal.

He went too negative, made bad decisions and it cost him his job.
 

Shipperley

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It’s fair to say de Zerbi entered a club that is better run, but that doesn’t let off Vieira for being extremely negative, chopping and changing attackers until settling on Ayew and not getting the most out of the talent at his disposal.

He went too negative, made bad decisions and it cost him his job.
There are a lot of parallels with what happened to PV at Nice if anyone’s interested in reading about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-football-philosophy-cost-him-his-job-at-nice

A good start but ultimately the lack of ability to set his team up to create chances did for him. He needs to find his identity I think, last season we pressed really high and this season we’ve covered by far the least ground, sitting much deeper. The loss of Gallagher is obviously a big one in energy terms but it’s been like a different Manager. I really hoped he could turn it around but I am slowly understanding why the board didn’t want to take the risk.
 
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There are a lot of parallels with what happened to PV at Nice if anyone’s interested in reading about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-football-philosophy-cost-him-his-job-at-nice

A good start but ultimately the lack of ability to set his team up to create chances did for him. He needs to find his identity I think, last season we pressed really high and this season we’ve covered by far the least ground, sitting much deeper. The loss of Gallagher is obviously a big one in energy terms but it’s been like a different Manager. I really hoped he could turn it around but I am slowly understanding why the board didn’t want to take the risk.
There’s no reward without risk, Brighton were in a few relegation battles when Potter first arrived and look where they are now.
 

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Seems like a crazy descision by Palace. Good chance they go down and all change serves is to pad Hodgsons retirement.

Poor transfers are as much to blame as the manager?
 

sincher

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I am not sure it is the right sort of appointment honestly, it is so time-limited I wonder if the players will really up their game. Hodgson has been a good manager and the players might like him but I think they need some new ideas, a bit of gusto, and to be playing for the shirt. Hodgson will go with what he knows. I think they will stay up but I think they would have anyway.
 

Bertie Wooster

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There’s no reward without risk, Brighton were in a few relegation battles when Potter first arrived and look where they are now.
But Potter was building a team who played an attractive style of play.

Whereas Palace under Vieira were regressing. I remember he was getting early praise for playing a more attacking, attractive style of play than 'pragmatic' Hodgson. And it's often said you can get away with being boring and pragmatic as long as you're getting the results.

Since the return after the winter break, Palace haven't been getting any points or scoring any goals and now not even having any shots on target. You can't do that, be dragged into a relegation battle, and not face the sack as a valid call.
 

Shipperley

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Yeah this is the part that resonated with me, it’s a mirror image of what’s happened to us since the World Cup:

“Despite that influx of creative talent, Nice were never truly convincing. Their defence, though solid, relied too often on the heroics of keeper Walter Benítez, and Vieira jumped from one formation to the next seemingly at random. Devoid of cohesion and creativity, Nice struggled to fashion chances for poacher Dolberg. Vieira’s philosophy was close to indecipherable”.

The Board are as culpable for not giving him more backing last summer but you can also understand why they may look at our lack of chance creation and feel a change is necessary.

If Roy goes on to keep us up, departs in the summer and we appoint a Paulo Fonseca or Adi Hutter (both linked) then nobody will say any more about it. Just really hope we get the early Palace version of Roy rather than the one that left.
 

Maluco

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There are a lot of parallels with what happened to PV at Nice if anyone’s interested in reading about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-football-philosophy-cost-him-his-job-at-nice

A good start but ultimately the lack of ability to set his team up to create chances did for him. He needs to find his identity I think, last season we pressed really high and this season we’ve covered by far the least ground, sitting much deeper. The loss of Gallagher is obviously a big one in energy terms but it’s been like a different Manager. I really hoped he could turn it around but I am slowly understanding why the board didn’t want to take the risk.
I think it’s harsh to blame the board at this stage, on the run they were on. There is no guarantee the football would have been any better on an “easier” run and you never know what other teams around you could pick up and string a few wins together.

It looked abject and the nature of the defeats and they way he was setting up would have been setting off alarm bells, especially since they did so well to rework the squad after Roy and the pit of contract oldies left.

If they do nothing, they are seen to be asleep at the wheel, rather than putting faith in a manager that just wasn’t instilling any confidence with his decisions.

I think the change is understandable, and Roy makes sense if they really want to take a considered approach to the next managerial choice. Bringing in the likes of Marsch/Lampard on a multi-year deal would have been a disaster!
 

Shipperley

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I think it’s harsh to blame the board at this stage, on the run they were on. There is no guarantee the football would have been any better on an “easier” run and you never know what other teams around you could pick up and string a few wins together.

It looked abject and the nature of the defeats and they way he was setting up would have been setting off alarm bells, especially since they did so well to rework the squad after Roy and the pit of contract oldies left.

If they do nothing, they are seen to be asleep at the wheel, rather than putting faith in a manager that just wasn’t instilling any confidence with his decisions.

I think the change is understandable, and Roy makes sense if they really want to take a considered approach to the next managerial choice. Bringing in the likes of Marsch/Lampard on a multi-year deal would have been a disaster!
You speak sense my friend. The Board’s culpability is mainly the two or three abysmal transfer windows in a row that set Pat up for failure. Our squad is horrifically imbalanced. We have one left back in the squad, two old right-backs who are exposed weekly, we lost Gallagher, Kouyate and McArthur from last season’s starting midfield and only signed Doucoure and we didn’t replace Benteke with another forward option when he left. Some players like Milivojevic and Ayew have been kept way past their sell-by dates as well. That’s why I don’t attribute all the blame on PV. But by the same token we have 6-7 very good players that he should have done better with.
 

Shipperley

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To be fair, a late season relegation battle is not the right time for ambition.
Steve Parish also can’t finance the club, he is nowhere near wealthy enough for that. The money men are Josh Harris and Dave Blitzer (the former is trying to buy The Commanders so has the cash) and John Textor who now owns Lyon and Botafogo. Harris and Blitzer have wanted to sell up for ages and bid for Chelsea before Boehly got it, Textor apparently wants to spend money but the others won’t put in to match his investment. Parish only owns 10% of the club but holds a golden veto over the others so all of those things put together in a mixing bowl means boardroom consensus is difficult to come by and the club is going backwards as a result. It’s a total mess to be honest.
 
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To be fair, a late season relegation battle is not the right time for ambition.
He should have showed ambition in the summer and Jan before they got sucked into a relegation battle. We gave them £50m for AWB 3years ago and they still haven’t bought a decent RB yet! Clowns running the show :lol:
 

horsechoker

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Yeah this is the part that resonated with me, it’s a mirror image of what’s happened to us since the World Cup:

“Despite that influx of creative talent, Nice were never truly convincing. Their defence, though solid, relied too often on the heroics of keeper Walter Benítez, and Vieira jumped from one formation to the next seemingly at random. Devoid of cohesion and creativity, Nice struggled to fashion chances for poacher Dolberg. Vieira’s philosophy was close to indecipherable”.

The Board are as culpable for not giving him more backing last summer but you can also understand why they may look at our lack of chance creation and feel a change is necessary.

If Roy goes on to keep us up, departs in the summer and we appoint a Paulo Fonseca or Adi Hutter (both linked) then nobody will say any more about it. Just really hope we get the early Palace version of Roy rather than the one that left.
I thought that said Waiter Benítez!
 

top1whoisman

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Aww, he looks like a sweet, lovely elderly gentleman who was supposed to get to the store to buy some milk but ended up wandering around a park and enjoying watching some lads played footie.

 

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I don't understand what you're objecting to here. Managers get asked all the time about other managers. Kompany isn't going out of his way to comment on Vieira. He was asked, and he gave a thoughtful, informed answer. I actually really enjoyed his answer.

Ignore the clickbait title of the video and listen to what he says and I'm sure you'll find yourself either agreeing with what he says entirely or at the very least appreciating the kind of detailed answer he gave.

It's a pretty good answer if it was prepared and even better one if he didn't expect that question.