Roy Keane the pundit

In the SAF years I don't remember too many we paid way over the odds for. Even Veron brought a lot back in when he was sold.

Bruce, Sharpe, Kanchelskis and Schmeichel were great early value before Cantona arrived.
 
Keane was an unbelievable and unquestionably world class player (Fergie clearly deliberately excluded him from his list of world class players through pettiness). He had a tremendous passing range to go with his other more vaunted attributes.

And on top of that, I think he is a garbage pundit. He has some entertaining soundbites, but I think he overplays the whole a'ngry man who hates everything' routine. Plus his actual punditry largely consists of buzzwords like 'character', 'leadership', 'desire' etc.

And the way he holds on to grudges is pathetic. Remember when he raged at Carrick merely getting the Man Utd managerial job on a caretaker basis for 3 games in 21/22? And him still being bitter towards Fergie after all this time, including after Fergie had that life threatening brain haemorrhage 8 years ago, reflects very badly on him.

The fact that Man Utd had that golden period from 2006-2009 after he left, and that Carrick (who took his shirt number) came in and did better than many people expected, clearly enraged Keane even more.
 
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Apologies for derailing the chat with the VDS tangent... to bring it back (roughly) on topic, it always seemed like Roy had a weird bee in his bonnet about Edwin. Apparently told him "You've been here five minutes and you think you know how Man Utd works," allegedly because VdS committed the sin of trying to calm Keane down when he was losing it with Carlos Q and Fergie.
 
Ole'sattheWheel said:

Fair enough being pissed off at the chef or waiting staff but to have a go at the front desk staff over some fecking eggs is the sign of a right prick. He knows full well they can't have a go back too. Being a rent a quote gobshite has gotten to his head
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God, he sounds a right bellend here.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
The fact that Man Utd had that golden period from 2006-2009 after he left, and that Carrick (who took his shirt number) came in and did better than many people expected, clearly enraged Keane even more.
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I think history is being slightly skewed here with the conversation around Carrick’s early contribution. He had a good first season more so the second half but was outshone by Scholes who transformed his role and dictated everything for us. His start at old Trafford was solid but not spectacular (Roma game aside)

Then Anderson and Hargreaves came in and Sir Alex mixed his midfield about here and there , and again Carrick was better in the second half of the season. He was outshone by Fletcher in the following years with people often criticising him for his safe passing, especially after the defeat to Bayern Munich in the quarter finals and the champions league final before that.


Carrick from around 2011-2013 was world class but it took him a while I think to be an authority in the midfield. Was he as influential as Keane’s contribution to the treble and three successive titles though? Not even close. This idea that Keane is jealous or enraged by Carrick ‘replacing’ him just seems weird to me. Keane won two doubles and a treble, had more PFA team of the year inclusions/individual honors, was the better player, and I just don’t see jealousy angle. Carrick appeared in more champions league finals but each only had one medal on that front.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
Keane was an unbelievable and unquestionably world class player (Fergie clearly deliberately excluded him from his list of world class players through pettiness). He had a tremendous passing range to go with his other more vaunted attributes.

And on top of that, I think he is a garbage pundit. He has some entertaining soundbites, but I think he overplays the whole angry man who hates everything routine. Plus his actual punditry consists of buzzwords like 'character', 'leadership', 'desire' etc.

And the way he holds to grudges is pathetic. Remember when he raged at Carrick merely getting the Man Utd managerial job on a caretaker basis for 3 games in 21/22? And him still being bitter towards Fergie after all this time, including after Fergie had that life threatening brain haemorrhage 8 years, reflects very badly on him.

The fact that Man Utd had that golden period from 2006-2009 after he left, and that Carrick (who took his shirt number) came in and did better than many people expected, clearly enraged Keane even more.
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I wonder if these things stick in the minds of ex players. Like Ole when he made that comment about Van Persie.
 
Irwin99 said:
I think history is being slightly skewed here with the conversation around Carrick’s early contribution. He had a good first season more so the second half but was outshone by Scholes who transformed his role and dictated everything for us. His start at old Trafford was solid but not spectacular (Roma game aside)

Then Anderson and Hargreaves came in and Sir Alex mixed his midfield about here and there , and again Carrick was better in the second half of the season. He was outshone by Fletcher in the following years with people often criticising him for his safe passing, especially after the defeat to Bayern Munich in the quarter finals and the champions league final before that.


Carrick from around 2011-2013 was world class but it took him a while I think to be an authority in the midfield. Was he as influential as Keane’s contribution to the treble and three successive titles though? Not even close. This idea that Keane is jealous or enraged by Carrick ‘replacing’ him just seems weird to me. Keane won two doubles and a treble, had more PFA team of the year inclusions/individual honors, was the better player, and I just don’t see jealousy angle. Carrick appeared in more champions league finals but each only had one medal on that front.
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I wasn’t comparing Carrick’s record at Man Utd with Keane’s, or their overall ability. Keane was clearly a far bigger Man Utd legend, and also clearly a better player.

I was saying that Carrick in his own right was a far more successful signing than predicted in 2006.

At that time there was a lot of deep scepticism about the signing in the first place, including from numerous Man Utd fans.

There were questions about why they didn’t sign someone like Mahamadou Diarra (who went to Real Madrid) instead. There was also talk that Tottenham got a better deal, by selling Carrick and signing Didier Zokora. Despite all that Carrick went on to carve out a wonderful career at Man Utd, and became popular with many fans who initially weren’t keen on his signing.

So with Keane often acting like a bitter infant, I do think Carrick’s ‘crimes’ were firstly coming in the next summer after he left and taking his shirt number, and secondly being a successful signing (and a far more successful one that widely predicted in 2006), part of a team that went on to win plenty more big trophies.
 
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Gazza said:
@devilish was very much against it!

(Happens to us all, dev, not calling you out here bro ;))
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true.

In my defense there's a very valid reason why the Dutch international ended up at Fulham in the first place. and why Juventus ended replacing him with a world fee for Buffon His tenure at Juventus was solid but not great up until the last year when it turned horrible and ended up costing them the league. Let's not forget that the memories of Taibi (a goalkeeper who was amazing with small clubs but who buckled under pressure when he moved to big clubs) were still fresh in everyone's mind. VDS was 34 when we signed him which meant that if things went wrong there was little resale value and little motivation from him to leave.

I messed up of course but there was sound reasoning behind it.
 
What is it with our ex players and picking on people working in food? First Nicky Butt picking on poor Greggs workers, now Roy Keane having a go at some hotel staff.
 
Gazza said:
Eric was 1.2M. Leeds weren't particularly bothered about selling him to us by that point, and made a 20% profit on a player they brought earlier that year. VdS was 35 and considered to have not long left at the top level, it definitely didn't feel that we "took him." Bargains in hindsight, but fair fees at the time that the selling club was happy with, so I don't see them as cases that are much different from today.
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If anything those players were undervalued by their selling clubs and I’d expect Fergie knew what he was getting at the time.
 
Bastian said:
Aye, my favourite player too. I don't think too many people think he wasn't world class, maybe a few who come out of the woodwork now because they're so upset about the whole Bruno thing, but 99% of United fans will think Keane is one of our best ever players and captains and rightly so. Could have played for any team easy. And you see the love other players have for him, like Chiellini. The foreign players love Scholes and they love Keane.
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It's non United fans I see on Facebook and Social Media in general that think he was vastly over rated. Admittedly though, there are also many non Utd fans that acknowledge he was world class.

Given the trophies won as well as the level he played at, he has to be up there as 1 of the most influential players of all time in Premier league era. 1 night I was browsing on a Rangers fans forum and they had a thread on Roy Keane, and even the majority of them ( who naturally, given he played for Celtic, wouldn't particularly like him ) admit he was a top, top player.

Yea, the stuff on the overlap when the lads visited Turin and met up with Chiellini was excellent. He really respected Roy Keane. Also, didn't Danielle de Rossi say he was his hero when he was growing up.

I always felt a lot of really top foreign players ( like Zidane ) rated Scholes higher than Keane. Probably due to the fact Scholes had a really high level of technical ability which is what players like Zidane respect above anything else in a player. As good as Scholes was, and he was a brilliant player, Keane tops him as an overall package for me. Just my opinion however.

Scholes would be a Zidane Xavi Iniesta type of players in terms of the type of player who those players would respect which is fair enough. Scholes was top notch, technically. Great player and seems a very down to earth decent bloke.
 
devilish said:
true.

In my defense there's a very valid reason why the Dutch international ended up at Fulham in the first place. and why Juventus ended replacing him with a world fee for Buffon His tenure at Juventus was solid but not great up until the last year when it turned horrible and ended up costing them the league. Let's not forget that the memories of Taibi (a goalkeeper who was amazing with small clubs but who buckled under pressure when he moved to big clubs) were still fresh in everyone's mind. VDS was 34 when we signed him which meant that if things went wrong there was little resale value and little motivation from him to leave.

I messed up of course but there was sound reasoning behind it.
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Absolutely mate, totally agree - there was not universal agreement on VDS and there were legit doubts at the time
 
Old Ma Crow said:
If anything those players were undervalued by their selling clubs and I’d expect Fergie knew what he was getting at the time.
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The larger point being that we didn't just swoop in and take them, they were fairly normal signings of opportunity and circumstance, hardly much different to any transfer we make today
 
Irish Bhoy said:
Apologies, it was 2-2 away to Holland having been 2 up. Not Portugal. My bad! But yea, Keane was fuming having been 2 up in the game with 20 mins to go.
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Keane was fuming because he was at fault for the second goal.

Lived and breathed every minute of that qualification campaign, missing only the second leg of the Iran play-off due to work experience. I later missed the Saudi Arabia game due to an exam. Whole school was going bananas! They didn't watch a single qualifier...

Keane was unbelievably good (top scorer) and let down yet again by the moronic FAI, whose mismanagement is itself the stuff of legend. Anyone with a functioning brain knows he was right about Saipan.

Still, the pundit Keane and the player: two different beasts.
 
Bastian said:
Wow did not know you had that record, very impressive.
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Ireland were a solid outfit in those days. Usually good within qualifying save for some ludicrous result.

We were ten seconds from qualifying for Euro 2000, but conceded a ridiculous goal to Macedonia. We spaffed about fifteen good chances beforehand.

The only time I've ever seen Denis Irwin angry.

Scarier than Keane.
 
FearAontaithe said:
Ireland were a solid outfit in those days. Usually good within qualifying save for some ludicrous result.

We were ten seconds from qualifying for Euro 2000, but conceded a ridiculous goal to Macedonia. We spaffed about fifteen good chances beforehand.

The only time I've ever seen Denis Irwin angry.

Scarier than Keane.
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Was actually watching that Vinnie Jones documentary yesterday, where he goes after both Keane and Cantona. Keano looked quite intimidated. I guess there were three guys more fierce I can think of at the top of my head (Pearce, Jones, Ferguson) but I would not have thought Irwin :lol:
 
Irish Bhoy said:
Regarding the 2002 World Cup qualifying campaign which contained Portugal and Holland. 10 games played: 7 won, 3 drew. He was easily the best player from any team in that group in qualifying.
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That home game against the Dutch. He absolutely dominated that whole game on and off the ball, from the first tackle on Overmars after about 30 seconds.

His performance against Portugal away was arguably better.
 
FearAontaithe said:
Keane was fuming because he was at fault for the second goal.

Lived and breathed every minute of that qualification campaign, missing only the second leg of the Iran play-off due to work experience. I later missed the Saudi Arabia game due to an exam. Whole school was going bananas! They didn't watch a single qualifier...

Keane was unbelievably good (top scorer) and let down yet again by the moronic FAI, whose mismanagement is itself the stuff of legend. Anyone with a functioning brain knows he was right about Saipan.

Still, the pundit Keane and the player: two different beasts.
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If memory serves me Keane referenced the fact we were 2 up and only picked up a point. He specifically referenced the fact the fact we shouldn't be happy with a point having been 2 up. I don't think him being at fault for the 2nd goal was referenced. That may have added to his annoyance but seeing team mates jubilant at final whistle annoyed him in the extreme.
 
Oranges038 said:
That home game against the Dutch. He absolutely dominated that whole game on and off the ball, from the first tackle on Overmars after about 30 seconds.

His performance against Portugal away was arguably better.
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Last night, I watched a 12 minute clip of the home Dutch game that specifically focused on Keane for the full montage. He was brilliant alright in that game. Absolutely superb.
 
Irish Bhoy said:
Last night, I watched a 12 minute clip of the home Dutch game that specifically focused on Keane for the full montage. He was brilliant alright in that game. Absolutely superb.
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There's a video of the Portugal away game as well.

 
Gazza said:
The larger point being that we didn't just swoop in and take them, they were fairly normal signings of opportunity and circumstance, hardly much different to any transfer we make today
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Swooping? You asked when did United “take the best players off smaller clubs”.
 
Old Ma Crow said:
Swooping? You asked when did United “take the best players off smaller clubs”.
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I asked that in relation to a wider point and the origin of the discussion, which is the suggestion that things operate much differently to today in terms of big clubs taking players off smaller clubs. We've always had to pay a fair whack to sign players from smaller teams, I don't think it's much different today.
 
Irwin99 said:
I think history is being slightly skewed here with the conversation around Carrick’s early contribution. He had a good first season more so the second half but was outshone by Scholes who transformed his role and dictated everything for us. His start at old Trafford was solid but not spectacular (Roma game aside)

Then Anderson and Hargreaves came in and Sir Alex mixed his midfield about here and there , and again Carrick was better in the second half of the season. He was outshone by Fletcher in the following years with people often criticising him for his safe passing, especially after the defeat to Bayern Munich in the quarter finals and the champions league final before that.


Carrick from around 2011-2013 was world class but it took him a while I think to be an authority in the midfield. Was he as influential as Keane’s contribution to the treble and three successive titles though? Not even close. This idea that Keane is jealous or enraged by Carrick ‘replacing’ him just seems weird to me. Keane won two doubles and a treble, had more PFA team of the year inclusions/individual honors, was the better player, and I just don’t see jealousy angle. Carrick appeared in more champions league finals but each only had one medal on that front.
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There's something not right with him, at least jealousy would be understandable. He's turning a fair few fans against him now. Such a shame
 
Gazza said:
He became a bargain but if you remember at the time many were scratching their head at the signing.
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I wanted him before he went to Fulham. Then again, I was in my teens back then and only knew him because he was the Ajax keeper when Ajax won the CL in 1995, which was the first ever CL match I ever watched.
 
NinjaZombie said:
I wanted him before he went to Fulham. Then again, I was in my teens back then and only knew him because he was the Ajax keeper when Ajax won the CL in 1995, which was the first ever CL match I ever watched.
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I was only 11 but I remember wanting us to sign him in 1999. I was so disappointed when we signed Bosnich, I'd rather we'd just played van der Gouw. I don't remember exactly how I felt when he joined in 2005 but I do recall thinking it seemed out of left field a bit considering his age. This was around the time Chelsea signed Cech and it looked like they were making all the big moves ahead of us, same with Robben. Then things all fell into place. Football, bloody hell.
 
When we went through a truly shite period I used to welcome his scathing comments and think ‘this is what these guys need to hear’.

But the 2nd half of the season with Carrick was genuinely excellent and I have very little grievances about how United played and the results they managed to get. But I’ve realised that this angry old dinosaur will find fault in everything to the point where I question whether he likes United at all.

This petty thing with Bruno is ridiculous and I now just can’t stand him. Constantly fecking miserable, constantly complaining, constantly whinging.

He’s tarnishing his reputation, much like Scholes has, with the bullshit takes from that fecking Overlap podcast.

When you give a donkey a stage, he thinks he’s a lion.
 
Bastian said:
Was actually watching that Vinnie Jones documentary yesterday, where he goes after both Keane and Cantona. Keano looked quite intimidated. I guess there were three guys more fierce I can think of at the top of my head (Pearce, Jones, Ferguson) but I would not have thought Irwin :lol:
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Always the quiet ones you have to keep an eye on.
 
Bastian said:
Was actually watching that Vinnie Jones documentary yesterday, where he goes after both Keane and Cantona. Keano looked quite intimidated. I guess there were three guys more fierce I can think of at the top of my head (Pearce, Jones, Ferguson) but I would not have thought Irwin :lol:
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Understandable.

I remember a Manchester Derby in which Keano clearly shat himself when Niall Quinn came
after him.

Quinn is probably a foot taller than Roy!
 
Didn't know where else to put this... this tackle Keane makes on Paul Ince, United vs Liverpool in 1999, is so satisfying :drool:



As an added treat, go back to match time 14:40 to see Scholes also writing to reach Ince in his typical manner. Note also how Ince gets up immediately and laughs it off with Scholes... imagine the five minute dramatics that would accompany such an incident now. #oldman #clouds
 
Gazza said:
Didn't know where else to put this... this tackle Keane makes on Paul Ince, United vs Liverpool in 1999, is so satisfying :drool:



As an added treat, go back to match time 14:40 to see Scholes also writing to reach Ince in his typical manner. Note also how Ince gets up immediately and laughs it off with Scholes... imagine the five minute dramatics that would accompany such an incident now. #oldman #clouds
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This came up on my youtube algorithm and I watched the last 15 mins again for some reason to relive the pain of that night as a 43 year old that was 16 at the time.

The speed and intensity of that match is crazy and the atmosphere insane at the end*, they really thought they'd denied us the title with that sledgehammer blow. I think in a way they felt it was pay back for the cup game in January at OT.

I still recall going to bed absolutely sick that night. David Elleray killed us with the pen decision against Blomqvist.

Carragher missed an absolute sitter of a header in stoppage time too, it could have been so much worse.

*they just don't make em like that anymore.
 
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Gazza said:
Didn't know where else to put this... this tackle Keane makes on Paul Ince, United vs Liverpool in 1999, is so satisfying :drool:



As an added treat, go back to match time 14:40 to see Scholes also writing to reach Ince in his typical manner. Note also how Ince gets up immediately and laughs it off with Scholes... imagine the five minute dramatics that would accompany such an incident now. #oldman #clouds
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A typical Elleray overly harsh one on Irwin on 75.
Kicking the ball away apparently and missed the FA cup final because of it if I remember correctly.
 
Sandikan said:
A typical Elleray overly harsh one on Irwin on 75.
Kicking the ball away apparently and missed the FA cup final because of it if I remember correctly.
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Liverpool's penalty was a terrible call. An advert for VAR.

Awful feeling. Watching the kop wave Arsenal flags about was surreal.
 
Gazza said:
Didn't know where else to put this... this tackle Keane makes on Paul Ince, United vs Liverpool in 1999, is so satisfying :drool:



As an added treat, go back to match time 14:40 to see Scholes also writing to reach Ince in his typical manner. Note also how Ince gets up immediately and laughs it off with Scholes... imagine the five minute dramatics that would accompany such an incident now. #oldman #clouds
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Awesome. What a game. What a tackle.

Look at Ince's reaction to the Keane tackle as well. How he gets up and how quickly he chases back. He's the guy whose just been floored by Keane yet he's up and sprinting back past Keane to help his team.

Never ever happening today. Today that player stays down and tries to stop the game.
 
Roll that video on another 2 minutes and it's the Yorke goal. One of my favorites, summed that season up. Brilliant couple of one twos between Keane and Beckham and Beckham with for me his best ever cross and Yorke loved getting on the end of them.
 
GuybrushThreepwood said:
Keane was an unbelievable and unquestionably world class player (Fergie clearly deliberately excluded him from his list of world class players through pettiness). He had a tremendous passing range to go with his other more vaunted attributes.

And on top of that, I think he is a garbage pundit. He has some entertaining soundbites, but I think he overplays the whole a'ngry man who hates everything' routine. Plus his actual punditry largely consists of buzzwords like 'character', 'leadership', 'desire' etc.

And the way he holds on to grudges is pathetic. Remember when he raged at Carrick merely getting the Man Utd managerial job on a caretaker basis for 3 games in 21/22? And him still being bitter towards Fergie after all this time, including after Fergie had that life threatening brain haemorrhage 8 years ago, reflects very badly on him.

The fact that Man Utd had that golden period from 2006-2009 after he left, and that Carrick (who took his shirt number) came in and did better than many people expected, clearly enraged Keane even more.
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100 million %
 
FearAontaithe said:
Liverpool's penalty was a terrible call. An advert for VAR.

Awful feeling. Watching the kop wave Arsenal flags about was surreal.
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They had a gigantic Bayern Munich flag in there that the sky cameras picked up pre match.
 
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